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On January 07 2016 05:52 Trurl wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2016 03:32 Sent. wrote:
I'm not sure but I also remember something about one of the undersea pipelines being too close to one of our Baltic ports which causes some technological problems. Yes, that is what I am interested in. Why did the Polish government got no say in the building of the pipeline if its close enough to affect your ports? And what kind of problems are caused?
I did some googling and apparently one of the pipes is so close to the port in Świnoujście, coincidentally the one with LNG terminal, that ships with hulls submerged more than 13.5 meters under the water can't enter it. This can render parts of the port designated for bigger ships like tankers or container ships useless. Now put your tinfoil hat on, LNG carriers tend to be big! Port administrator sued some German institution about it but afaik they lost the court battle (the court was in Hamburg). I don't feel like an expert in sea engineering so I don't know the details and maybe the articles I read were exaggerating the problem.
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On January 07 2016 06:05 Narw wrote:
[...]
So yeah, about that solidarity :D
Yes I get it. We are bad people and if we say "solidarity" it rings the wrong bell with you. So what exactly did your country do voluntarily to improve life outside of Poland? I mean, it is easy to point fingers at others. But if you really are so much better than us, than at least tell me why you have the moral high ground.
Getting all the flak all the time just because you´r born as a German will not increase the will of the public to uphold the payments. We have already enough people here who ask, why we should pay that much amount of money to the EU. There is also the saying "Europe is as long as Germany pays." I consider that pretty disheartening.
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On January 07 2016 06:30 Elizar wrote:Yes I get it. We are bad people and if we say "solidarity" it rings the wrong bell with you. So what exactly did your country do voluntarily to improve life outside of Poland? I mean, it is easy to point fingers at others. But if you really are so much better than us, than at least tell me why you have the moral high ground. Getting all the flak all the time just because you´r born as a German will not increase the will of the public to uphold the payments. We have already enough people here who ask, why we should pay that much amount of money to the EU. There is also the saying "Europe is as long as Germany pays." I consider that pretty disheartening.
Who's talking about moral high ground? The point is that, unlike Germany, Poland is not preaching European solidarity while stabbing others in the back, all the while complaining how much it is sacrificing for the sake of the new EU members, while in reality it is one of the biggest benefactors of the EU.
When Germany does something in its best interest (be it Nord Stream, inviting lots of immigrants and then forcing other countries to take some of them after being unable to absorb them all or introducing arbitrary regulations that hit our companies) it's somehow perfectly okay. But when Poland does something that Germany doesn't like, we get shit for not showing solidarity or being ungrateful...
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On January 07 2016 06:16 Elizar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2016 05:38 WhiteDog wrote:On January 07 2016 03:22 OtherWorld wrote:On January 06 2016 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:On January 06 2016 21:09 Velr wrote:On January 06 2016 21:06 dismiss wrote:On January 06 2016 20:52 maybenexttime wrote:On January 06 2016 20:29 dismiss wrote:Maybe because Poland was the recipient of vast quantities of money, a large part of which came from Germany, through the EU.  It's slightly ironic to expect the government of another country to have your best interests in mind, complaining when they don't, but taking their money regardless. Roughly 80% of the money that Germany gives to Poland through the EU goes directly back to Germany. Add to that the massive loans we have to take mostly in western banks (some of which are German) in order to be able to receive that EU money and the massive profits German companies are making in Poland thanks to the open market or the horrendous sums of money some German companies are illegally funneling out of Poland (some $30 bln during the past several years), and it suddenly stops looking like Germany is giving us charity money... I know it's ironic. You know what's also ironic (or rather hypocritical)? Germany preaching European solidarity while actually not giving shit about it. The funny thing is that our previous government did just that - it seemed to have Germany's best interest in mind, often taking priority over Poland's best interest. Those are some serious conspiracy theories you got going on there, sorry normal economic transactions apparently are Germany's plan to subjugate Poland. Haven't you got the Memo? If a european country has a problem its allways germanies fault. The system is flawed, and germany is one of the few country that benefit from it, so they kinda attract (stupidly, they are not at fault) the blame. Again, the underlying reason as to why german accept that many migrant are economic, and not out of the pureness of their hearth, it's the only country that need that much labor (no unemployment, old population), and it is not limited to refugees : which country receive more greeks, french, spanish and italians ? Yeah sure, there's no unemployment in Germany, that's why Merkel got no opposition at all when she decided to welcome immigrants. I also heard all German drive $100,000 Mercedes and that you can find Euro bills in their trash bins. Your response is hillariously dumb but it's okay, everybody does such thing once in a while. PS : up to 5% unemployment is considered full employment. PPS : German unemployment rate dropped by 1 % at least since 2013, so it's now closer to 4% than 5%. + Show Spoiler + Actually right now (Dec 2015) it is 6,1 % according to the Bundesagentur für Arbeit. Thats the departement which should know it. Why you take a reference from 2014 I don´t know. If you consider, that many people are additionally in "training programs" just such that they don´t appear in stastistics of unemployment, the rate will be higher.
And ? Compare it to any other european country.
I took 2014 just cauz I wanted an image, easy to read for someone.
By the way, it's 4.5 here : http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/unemployment-rate
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On January 07 2016 06:30 Elizar wrote:Yes I get it. We are bad people and if we say "solidarity" it rings the wrong bell with you. So what exactly did your country do voluntarily to improve life outside of Poland? I mean, it is easy to point fingers at others. But if you really are so much better than us, than at least tell me why you have the moral high ground. Getting all the flak all the time just because you´r born as a German will not increase the will of the public to uphold the payments. We have already enough people here who ask, why we should pay that much amount of money to the EU. There is also the saying "Europe is as long as Germany pays." I consider that pretty disheartening.
You get it but you get it wrong. The finger pointing happens now because some Western Europeans (not Germans only) demand solidarity in refugee crisis but their goverments do the opposite of solidarity in energy policy. Germans take the hit because they're the biggest Western European country. Same reason every time an Eastern European plumber "steals" someone's job in France, Netherlands or UK it's always Poland's fault.
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On January 07 2016 06:16 Narw wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2016 06:06 OtherWorld wrote:On January 07 2016 05:38 WhiteDog wrote:On January 07 2016 03:22 OtherWorld wrote:On January 06 2016 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:On January 06 2016 21:09 Velr wrote:On January 06 2016 21:06 dismiss wrote:On January 06 2016 20:52 maybenexttime wrote:On January 06 2016 20:29 dismiss wrote:Maybe because Poland was the recipient of vast quantities of money, a large part of which came from Germany, through the EU. It's slightly ironic to expect the government of another country to have your best interests in mind, complaining when they don't, but taking their money regardless. Roughly 80% of the money that Germany gives to Poland through the EU goes directly back to Germany. Add to that the massive loans we have to take mostly in western banks (some of which are German) in order to be able to receive that EU money and the massive profits German companies are making in Poland thanks to the open market or the horrendous sums of money some German companies are illegally funneling out of Poland (some $30 bln during the past several years), and it suddenly stops looking like Germany is giving us charity money... I know it's ironic. You know what's also ironic (or rather hypocritical)? Germany preaching European solidarity while actually not giving shit about it. The funny thing is that our previous government did just that - it seemed to have Germany's best interest in mind, often taking priority over Poland's best interest. Those are some serious conspiracy theories you got going on there, sorry normal economic transactions apparently are Germany's plan to subjugate Poland. Haven't you got the Memo? If a european country has a problem its allways germanies fault. The system is flawed, and germany is one of the few country that benefit from it, so they kinda attract (stupidly, they are not at fault) the blame. Again, the underlying reason as to why german accept that many migrant are economic, and not out of the pureness of their hearth, it's the only country that need that much labor (no unemployment, old population), and it is not limited to refugees : which country receive more greeks, french, spanish and italians ? Yeah sure, there's no unemployment in Germany, that's why Merkel got no opposition at all when she decided to welcome immigrants. I also heard all German drive $100,000 Mercedes and that you can find Euro bills in their trash bins. Your response is hillariously dumb but it's okay, everybody does such thing once in a while. PS : up to 5% unemployment is considered full employment. PPS : German unemployment rate dropped by 1 % at least since 2013, so it's now closer to 4% than 5%. + Show Spoiler + Yes, statistics are a great tool. Looking what's behind them is even better : Germany focused on getting low unemployment rates, at any cost, meaning that many people have low-paid (I guess the recent minimum wage law had an effect on that one, though), unstable, temporary jobs. Man, you have it so hard there. Thats why all those young Germans migrate seeking better live right?
That's why the post just below yours, made by a German, basically confirms that we should look beyond the raw statistics of unemployment in Germany, yes.
On January 07 2016 06:46 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2016 06:16 Elizar wrote:On January 07 2016 05:38 WhiteDog wrote:On January 07 2016 03:22 OtherWorld wrote:On January 06 2016 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:On January 06 2016 21:09 Velr wrote:On January 06 2016 21:06 dismiss wrote:On January 06 2016 20:52 maybenexttime wrote:On January 06 2016 20:29 dismiss wrote:Maybe because Poland was the recipient of vast quantities of money, a large part of which came from Germany, through the EU. It's slightly ironic to expect the government of another country to have your best interests in mind, complaining when they don't, but taking their money regardless. Roughly 80% of the money that Germany gives to Poland through the EU goes directly back to Germany. Add to that the massive loans we have to take mostly in western banks (some of which are German) in order to be able to receive that EU money and the massive profits German companies are making in Poland thanks to the open market or the horrendous sums of money some German companies are illegally funneling out of Poland (some $30 bln during the past several years), and it suddenly stops looking like Germany is giving us charity money... I know it's ironic. You know what's also ironic (or rather hypocritical)? Germany preaching European solidarity while actually not giving shit about it. The funny thing is that our previous government did just that - it seemed to have Germany's best interest in mind, often taking priority over Poland's best interest. Those are some serious conspiracy theories you got going on there, sorry normal economic transactions apparently are Germany's plan to subjugate Poland. Haven't you got the Memo? If a european country has a problem its allways germanies fault. The system is flawed, and germany is one of the few country that benefit from it, so they kinda attract (stupidly, they are not at fault) the blame. Again, the underlying reason as to why german accept that many migrant are economic, and not out of the pureness of their hearth, it's the only country that need that much labor (no unemployment, old population), and it is not limited to refugees : which country receive more greeks, french, spanish and italians ? Yeah sure, there's no unemployment in Germany, that's why Merkel got no opposition at all when she decided to welcome immigrants. I also heard all German drive $100,000 Mercedes and that you can find Euro bills in their trash bins. Your response is hillariously dumb but it's okay, everybody does such thing once in a while. PS : up to 5% unemployment is considered full employment. PPS : German unemployment rate dropped by 1 % at least since 2013, so it's now closer to 4% than 5%. + Show Spoiler + Actually right now (Dec 2015) it is 6,1 % according to the Bundesagentur für Arbeit. Thats the departement which should know it. Why you take a reference from 2014 I don´t know. If you consider, that many people are additionally in "training programs" just such that they don´t appear in stastistics of unemployment, the rate will be higher. And ? Compare it to any other european country.
I don't think anyone is arguing that Germany is not the european country which is enjoying the best economic conditions atm. However, that doesn't mean that everything's nice and beautiful in Germany ; and that Germany isn't starving for labor as you made it out to be.
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On January 07 2016 06:53 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2016 06:16 Narw wrote:On January 07 2016 06:06 OtherWorld wrote:On January 07 2016 05:38 WhiteDog wrote:On January 07 2016 03:22 OtherWorld wrote:On January 06 2016 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:On January 06 2016 21:09 Velr wrote:On January 06 2016 21:06 dismiss wrote:On January 06 2016 20:52 maybenexttime wrote:On January 06 2016 20:29 dismiss wrote:Maybe because Poland was the recipient of vast quantities of money, a large part of which came from Germany, through the EU. It's slightly ironic to expect the government of another country to have your best interests in mind, complaining when they don't, but taking their money regardless. Roughly 80% of the money that Germany gives to Poland through the EU goes directly back to Germany. Add to that the massive loans we have to take mostly in western banks (some of which are German) in order to be able to receive that EU money and the massive profits German companies are making in Poland thanks to the open market or the horrendous sums of money some German companies are illegally funneling out of Poland (some $30 bln during the past several years), and it suddenly stops looking like Germany is giving us charity money... I know it's ironic. You know what's also ironic (or rather hypocritical)? Germany preaching European solidarity while actually not giving shit about it. The funny thing is that our previous government did just that - it seemed to have Germany's best interest in mind, often taking priority over Poland's best interest. Those are some serious conspiracy theories you got going on there, sorry normal economic transactions apparently are Germany's plan to subjugate Poland. Haven't you got the Memo? If a european country has a problem its allways germanies fault. The system is flawed, and germany is one of the few country that benefit from it, so they kinda attract (stupidly, they are not at fault) the blame. Again, the underlying reason as to why german accept that many migrant are economic, and not out of the pureness of their hearth, it's the only country that need that much labor (no unemployment, old population), and it is not limited to refugees : which country receive more greeks, french, spanish and italians ? Yeah sure, there's no unemployment in Germany, that's why Merkel got no opposition at all when she decided to welcome immigrants. I also heard all German drive $100,000 Mercedes and that you can find Euro bills in their trash bins. Your response is hillariously dumb but it's okay, everybody does such thing once in a while. PS : up to 5% unemployment is considered full employment. PPS : German unemployment rate dropped by 1 % at least since 2013, so it's now closer to 4% than 5%. + Show Spoiler + Yes, statistics are a great tool. Looking what's behind them is even better : Germany focused on getting low unemployment rates, at any cost, meaning that many people have low-paid (I guess the recent minimum wage law had an effect on that one, though), unstable, temporary jobs. Man, you have it so hard there. Thats why all those young Germans migrate seeking better live right? That's why the post just below yours, made by a German, basically confirms that we should look beyond the raw statistics of unemployment in Germany, yes. Show nested quote +On January 07 2016 06:46 WhiteDog wrote:On January 07 2016 06:16 Elizar wrote:On January 07 2016 05:38 WhiteDog wrote:On January 07 2016 03:22 OtherWorld wrote:On January 06 2016 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:On January 06 2016 21:09 Velr wrote:On January 06 2016 21:06 dismiss wrote:On January 06 2016 20:52 maybenexttime wrote:On January 06 2016 20:29 dismiss wrote:Maybe because Poland was the recipient of vast quantities of money, a large part of which came from Germany, through the EU. It's slightly ironic to expect the government of another country to have your best interests in mind, complaining when they don't, but taking their money regardless. Roughly 80% of the money that Germany gives to Poland through the EU goes directly back to Germany. Add to that the massive loans we have to take mostly in western banks (some of which are German) in order to be able to receive that EU money and the massive profits German companies are making in Poland thanks to the open market or the horrendous sums of money some German companies are illegally funneling out of Poland (some $30 bln during the past several years), and it suddenly stops looking like Germany is giving us charity money... I know it's ironic. You know what's also ironic (or rather hypocritical)? Germany preaching European solidarity while actually not giving shit about it. The funny thing is that our previous government did just that - it seemed to have Germany's best interest in mind, often taking priority over Poland's best interest. Those are some serious conspiracy theories you got going on there, sorry normal economic transactions apparently are Germany's plan to subjugate Poland. Haven't you got the Memo? If a european country has a problem its allways germanies fault. The system is flawed, and germany is one of the few country that benefit from it, so they kinda attract (stupidly, they are not at fault) the blame. Again, the underlying reason as to why german accept that many migrant are economic, and not out of the pureness of their hearth, it's the only country that need that much labor (no unemployment, old population), and it is not limited to refugees : which country receive more greeks, french, spanish and italians ? Yeah sure, there's no unemployment in Germany, that's why Merkel got no opposition at all when she decided to welcome immigrants. I also heard all German drive $100,000 Mercedes and that you can find Euro bills in their trash bins. Your response is hillariously dumb but it's okay, everybody does such thing once in a while. PS : up to 5% unemployment is considered full employment. PPS : German unemployment rate dropped by 1 % at least since 2013, so it's now closer to 4% than 5%. + Show Spoiler + Actually right now (Dec 2015) it is 6,1 % according to the Bundesagentur für Arbeit. Thats the departement which should know it. Why you take a reference from 2014 I don´t know. If you consider, that many people are additionally in "training programs" just such that they don´t appear in stastistics of unemployment, the rate will be higher. And ? Compare it to any other european country. I don't think anyone is arguing that Germany is not the european country which is enjoying the best economic conditions atm. However, that doesn't mean that everything's nice and beautiful in Germany ; and that Germany isn't starving for labor as you made it out to be.
I'm seriously tired, and I'm not going to be insulting because I don't want to be banned stupidly, but ... where did I say germany is a heaven ? I basically pointed out two fact to support the idea that germany can integrate (economically and socially) better than most european country and need (to some degree) people to compensate for its aging population.
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On January 07 2016 06:39 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2016 06:30 Elizar wrote:On January 07 2016 06:05 Narw wrote:
[...]
So yeah, about that solidarity :D Yes I get it. We are bad people and if we say "solidarity" it rings the wrong bell with you. So what exactly did your country do voluntarily to improve life outside of Poland? I mean, it is easy to point fingers at others. But if you really are so much better than us, than at least tell me why you have the moral high ground. Getting all the flak all the time just because you´r born as a German will not increase the will of the public to uphold the payments. We have already enough people here who ask, why we should pay that much amount of money to the EU. There is also the saying "Europe is as long as Germany pays." I consider that pretty disheartening. Who's talking about moral high ground? The point is that, unlike Germany, Poland is not preaching European solidarity while stabbing others in the back, all the while complaining how much it is sacrificing for the sake of the new EU members, while in reality it is one of the biggest benefactors of the EU. When Germany does something in its best interest (be it Nord Stream, inviting lots of immigrants and then forcing other countries to take some of them after being unable to absorb them all or introducing arbitrary regulations that hit our companies) it's somehow perfectly okay. But when Poland does something that Germany doesn't like, we get shit for not showing solidarity or being ungrateful...
Believe it or not, not every German agrees on Merkel´s politics. Actually the majority disagrees according to a representative survey Nov 2015 (http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2015-11/angela-merkel-fluechtling-zustimmung-umfrage-thomas-de-maiziere).
And yes, our government does many things, some will also be in Germany´s best interests, as most governments will do. But if you want to complain that it is unfair, that Poland is called out for their solidarity (or therefore their lack) and at the same time you want to complain about all the bad stuff Germany does, thats weird to me.
Call us out, if we do bad stuff (like that pipeline. Acutally it is interesting for me as well, because I was not that much aware of that). Thats your right and I dont want to take that away from you. But don´t complain, if we do the same.
The EU is in a messy state at the moment. Let´s see how this is going to develop. At least we can talk about it.
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On January 07 2016 06:46 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2016 06:16 Elizar wrote:On January 07 2016 05:38 WhiteDog wrote:On January 07 2016 03:22 OtherWorld wrote:On January 06 2016 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:On January 06 2016 21:09 Velr wrote:On January 06 2016 21:06 dismiss wrote:On January 06 2016 20:52 maybenexttime wrote:On January 06 2016 20:29 dismiss wrote:Maybe because Poland was the recipient of vast quantities of money, a large part of which came from Germany, through the EU. It's slightly ironic to expect the government of another country to have your best interests in mind, complaining when they don't, but taking their money regardless. Roughly 80% of the money that Germany gives to Poland through the EU goes directly back to Germany. Add to that the massive loans we have to take mostly in western banks (some of which are German) in order to be able to receive that EU money and the massive profits German companies are making in Poland thanks to the open market or the horrendous sums of money some German companies are illegally funneling out of Poland (some $30 bln during the past several years), and it suddenly stops looking like Germany is giving us charity money... I know it's ironic. You know what's also ironic (or rather hypocritical)? Germany preaching European solidarity while actually not giving shit about it. The funny thing is that our previous government did just that - it seemed to have Germany's best interest in mind, often taking priority over Poland's best interest. Those are some serious conspiracy theories you got going on there, sorry normal economic transactions apparently are Germany's plan to subjugate Poland. Haven't you got the Memo? If a european country has a problem its allways germanies fault. The system is flawed, and germany is one of the few country that benefit from it, so they kinda attract (stupidly, they are not at fault) the blame. Again, the underlying reason as to why german accept that many migrant are economic, and not out of the pureness of their hearth, it's the only country that need that much labor (no unemployment, old population), and it is not limited to refugees : which country receive more greeks, french, spanish and italians ? Yeah sure, there's no unemployment in Germany, that's why Merkel got no opposition at all when she decided to welcome immigrants. I also heard all German drive $100,000 Mercedes and that you can find Euro bills in their trash bins. Your response is hillariously dumb but it's okay, everybody does such thing once in a while. PS : up to 5% unemployment is considered full employment. PPS : German unemployment rate dropped by 1 % at least since 2013, so it's now closer to 4% than 5%. + Show Spoiler + Actually right now (Dec 2015) it is 6,1 % according to the Bundesagentur für Arbeit. Thats the departement which should know it. Why you take a reference from 2014 I don´t know. If you consider, that many people are additionally in "training programs" just such that they don´t appear in stastistics of unemployment, the rate will be higher. And ? Compare it to any other european country. I took 2014 just cauz I wanted an image, easy to read for someone. By the way, it's 4.5 here : http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/unemployment-rate
Hmm ... interesting, because I normally suspect the unemployment rates to be somewhat whitewashed by officials in Germany with all kind of tricks just to make it look better.
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On January 07 2016 06:55 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2016 06:53 OtherWorld wrote:On January 07 2016 06:16 Narw wrote:On January 07 2016 06:06 OtherWorld wrote:On January 07 2016 05:38 WhiteDog wrote:On January 07 2016 03:22 OtherWorld wrote:On January 06 2016 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:On January 06 2016 21:09 Velr wrote:On January 06 2016 21:06 dismiss wrote:On January 06 2016 20:52 maybenexttime wrote:
[quote]
Roughly 80% of the money that Germany gives to Poland through the EU goes directly back to Germany. Add to that the massive loans we have to take mostly in western banks (some of which are German) in order to be able to receive that EU money and the massive profits German companies are making in Poland thanks to the open market or the horrendous sums of money some German companies are illegally funneling out of Poland (some $30 bln during the past several years), and it suddenly stops looking like Germany is giving us charity money...
I know it's ironic. You know what's also ironic (or rather hypocritical)? Germany preaching European solidarity while actually not giving shit about it. The funny thing is that our previous government did just that - it seemed to have Germany's best interest in mind, often taking priority over Poland's best interest. Those are some serious conspiracy theories you got going on there, sorry normal economic transactions apparently are Germany's plan to subjugate Poland. Haven't you got the Memo? If a european country has a problem its allways germanies fault. The system is flawed, and germany is one of the few country that benefit from it, so they kinda attract (stupidly, they are not at fault) the blame. Again, the underlying reason as to why german accept that many migrant are economic, and not out of the pureness of their hearth, it's the only country that need that much labor (no unemployment, old population), and it is not limited to refugees : which country receive more greeks, french, spanish and italians ? Yeah sure, there's no unemployment in Germany, that's why Merkel got no opposition at all when she decided to welcome immigrants. I also heard all German drive $100,000 Mercedes and that you can find Euro bills in their trash bins. Your response is hillariously dumb but it's okay, everybody does such thing once in a while. PS : up to 5% unemployment is considered full employment. PPS : German unemployment rate dropped by 1 % at least since 2013, so it's now closer to 4% than 5%. + Show Spoiler + Yes, statistics are a great tool. Looking what's behind them is even better : Germany focused on getting low unemployment rates, at any cost, meaning that many people have low-paid (I guess the recent minimum wage law had an effect on that one, though), unstable, temporary jobs. Man, you have it so hard there. Thats why all those young Germans migrate seeking better live right? That's why the post just below yours, made by a German, basically confirms that we should look beyond the raw statistics of unemployment in Germany, yes. On January 07 2016 06:46 WhiteDog wrote:On January 07 2016 06:16 Elizar wrote:On January 07 2016 05:38 WhiteDog wrote:On January 07 2016 03:22 OtherWorld wrote:On January 06 2016 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:On January 06 2016 21:09 Velr wrote:On January 06 2016 21:06 dismiss wrote:On January 06 2016 20:52 maybenexttime wrote:
[quote]
Roughly 80% of the money that Germany gives to Poland through the EU goes directly back to Germany. Add to that the massive loans we have to take mostly in western banks (some of which are German) in order to be able to receive that EU money and the massive profits German companies are making in Poland thanks to the open market or the horrendous sums of money some German companies are illegally funneling out of Poland (some $30 bln during the past several years), and it suddenly stops looking like Germany is giving us charity money...
I know it's ironic. You know what's also ironic (or rather hypocritical)? Germany preaching European solidarity while actually not giving shit about it. The funny thing is that our previous government did just that - it seemed to have Germany's best interest in mind, often taking priority over Poland's best interest. Those are some serious conspiracy theories you got going on there, sorry normal economic transactions apparently are Germany's plan to subjugate Poland. Haven't you got the Memo? If a european country has a problem its allways germanies fault. The system is flawed, and germany is one of the few country that benefit from it, so they kinda attract (stupidly, they are not at fault) the blame. Again, the underlying reason as to why german accept that many migrant are economic, and not out of the pureness of their hearth, it's the only country that need that much labor (no unemployment, old population), and it is not limited to refugees : which country receive more greeks, french, spanish and italians ? Yeah sure, there's no unemployment in Germany, that's why Merkel got no opposition at all when she decided to welcome immigrants. I also heard all German drive $100,000 Mercedes and that you can find Euro bills in their trash bins. Your response is hillariously dumb but it's okay, everybody does such thing once in a while. PS : up to 5% unemployment is considered full employment. PPS : German unemployment rate dropped by 1 % at least since 2013, so it's now closer to 4% than 5%. + Show Spoiler + Actually right now (Dec 2015) it is 6,1 % according to the Bundesagentur für Arbeit. Thats the departement which should know it. Why you take a reference from 2014 I don´t know. If you consider, that many people are additionally in "training programs" just such that they don´t appear in stastistics of unemployment, the rate will be higher. And ? Compare it to any other european country. I don't think anyone is arguing that Germany is not the european country which is enjoying the best economic conditions atm. However, that doesn't mean that everything's nice and beautiful in Germany ; and that Germany isn't starving for labor as you made it out to be. I'm seriously tired, and I'm not going to be insulting because I don't want to be banned stupidly, but ... where did I say germany is a heaven ? I basically pointed out two fact to support the idea that germany can integrate (economically and socially) better than most european country and need (to some degree) people to compensate for its aging population.
We can agree that Germany is better off than most European countries, yes.
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On January 07 2016 06:47 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2016 06:30 Elizar wrote:On January 07 2016 06:05 Narw wrote:
[...]
So yeah, about that solidarity :D Yes I get it. We are bad people and if we say "solidarity" it rings the wrong bell with you. So what exactly did your country do voluntarily to improve life outside of Poland? I mean, it is easy to point fingers at others. But if you really are so much better than us, than at least tell me why you have the moral high ground. Getting all the flak all the time just because you´r born as a German will not increase the will of the public to uphold the payments. We have already enough people here who ask, why we should pay that much amount of money to the EU. There is also the saying "Europe is as long as Germany pays." I consider that pretty disheartening. You get it but you get it wrong. The finger pointing happens now because some Western Europeans (not Germans only) demand solidarity in refugee crisis but their goverments do the opposite of solidarity in energy policy. Germans take the hit because they're the biggest Western European country. Same reason every time an Eastern European plumber "steals" someone's job in France, Netherlands or UK it's always Poland's fault.
Actually I more or less considered the work relations between Poland and Germany somehow symbiotic. Anyways, thanks for providing additional insight regarding the energy policy problems.
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On January 07 2016 07:05 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2016 06:55 WhiteDog wrote:On January 07 2016 06:53 OtherWorld wrote:On January 07 2016 06:16 Narw wrote:On January 07 2016 06:06 OtherWorld wrote:On January 07 2016 05:38 WhiteDog wrote:On January 07 2016 03:22 OtherWorld wrote:On January 06 2016 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:On January 06 2016 21:09 Velr wrote:On January 06 2016 21:06 dismiss wrote:
[quote]
Those are some serious conspiracy theories you got going on there, sorry normal economic transactions apparently are Germany's plan to subjugate Poland. Haven't you got the Memo? If a european country has a problem its allways germanies fault. The system is flawed, and germany is one of the few country that benefit from it, so they kinda attract (stupidly, they are not at fault) the blame. Again, the underlying reason as to why german accept that many migrant are economic, and not out of the pureness of their hearth, it's the only country that need that much labor (no unemployment, old population), and it is not limited to refugees : which country receive more greeks, french, spanish and italians ? Yeah sure, there's no unemployment in Germany, that's why Merkel got no opposition at all when she decided to welcome immigrants. I also heard all German drive $100,000 Mercedes and that you can find Euro bills in their trash bins. Your response is hillariously dumb but it's okay, everybody does such thing once in a while. PS : up to 5% unemployment is considered full employment. PPS : German unemployment rate dropped by 1 % at least since 2013, so it's now closer to 4% than 5%. + Show Spoiler + Yes, statistics are a great tool. Looking what's behind them is even better : Germany focused on getting low unemployment rates, at any cost, meaning that many people have low-paid (I guess the recent minimum wage law had an effect on that one, though), unstable, temporary jobs. Man, you have it so hard there. Thats why all those young Germans migrate seeking better live right? That's why the post just below yours, made by a German, basically confirms that we should look beyond the raw statistics of unemployment in Germany, yes. On January 07 2016 06:46 WhiteDog wrote:On January 07 2016 06:16 Elizar wrote:On January 07 2016 05:38 WhiteDog wrote:On January 07 2016 03:22 OtherWorld wrote:On January 06 2016 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:On January 06 2016 21:09 Velr wrote:On January 06 2016 21:06 dismiss wrote:
[quote]
Those are some serious conspiracy theories you got going on there, sorry normal economic transactions apparently are Germany's plan to subjugate Poland. Haven't you got the Memo? If a european country has a problem its allways germanies fault. The system is flawed, and germany is one of the few country that benefit from it, so they kinda attract (stupidly, they are not at fault) the blame. Again, the underlying reason as to why german accept that many migrant are economic, and not out of the pureness of their hearth, it's the only country that need that much labor (no unemployment, old population), and it is not limited to refugees : which country receive more greeks, french, spanish and italians ? Yeah sure, there's no unemployment in Germany, that's why Merkel got no opposition at all when she decided to welcome immigrants. I also heard all German drive $100,000 Mercedes and that you can find Euro bills in their trash bins. Your response is hillariously dumb but it's okay, everybody does such thing once in a while. PS : up to 5% unemployment is considered full employment. PPS : German unemployment rate dropped by 1 % at least since 2013, so it's now closer to 4% than 5%. + Show Spoiler + Actually right now (Dec 2015) it is 6,1 % according to the Bundesagentur für Arbeit. Thats the departement which should know it. Why you take a reference from 2014 I don´t know. If you consider, that many people are additionally in "training programs" just such that they don´t appear in stastistics of unemployment, the rate will be higher. And ? Compare it to any other european country. I don't think anyone is arguing that Germany is not the european country which is enjoying the best economic conditions atm. However, that doesn't mean that everything's nice and beautiful in Germany ; and that Germany isn't starving for labor as you made it out to be. I'm seriously tired, and I'm not going to be insulting because I don't want to be banned stupidly, but ... where did I say germany is a heaven ? I basically pointed out two fact to support the idea that germany can integrate (economically and socially) better than most european country and need (to some degree) people to compensate for its aging population. We can agree that Germany is better off than most European countries, yes.
Indeed we can.
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On January 07 2016 07:03 Elizar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2016 06:46 WhiteDog wrote:On January 07 2016 06:16 Elizar wrote:On January 07 2016 05:38 WhiteDog wrote:On January 07 2016 03:22 OtherWorld wrote:On January 06 2016 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:On January 06 2016 21:09 Velr wrote:On January 06 2016 21:06 dismiss wrote:On January 06 2016 20:52 maybenexttime wrote:On January 06 2016 20:29 dismiss wrote:Maybe because Poland was the recipient of vast quantities of money, a large part of which came from Germany, through the EU. It's slightly ironic to expect the government of another country to have your best interests in mind, complaining when they don't, but taking their money regardless. Roughly 80% of the money that Germany gives to Poland through the EU goes directly back to Germany. Add to that the massive loans we have to take mostly in western banks (some of which are German) in order to be able to receive that EU money and the massive profits German companies are making in Poland thanks to the open market or the horrendous sums of money some German companies are illegally funneling out of Poland (some $30 bln during the past several years), and it suddenly stops looking like Germany is giving us charity money... I know it's ironic. You know what's also ironic (or rather hypocritical)? Germany preaching European solidarity while actually not giving shit about it. The funny thing is that our previous government did just that - it seemed to have Germany's best interest in mind, often taking priority over Poland's best interest. Those are some serious conspiracy theories you got going on there, sorry normal economic transactions apparently are Germany's plan to subjugate Poland. Haven't you got the Memo? If a european country has a problem its allways germanies fault. The system is flawed, and germany is one of the few country that benefit from it, so they kinda attract (stupidly, they are not at fault) the blame. Again, the underlying reason as to why german accept that many migrant are economic, and not out of the pureness of their hearth, it's the only country that need that much labor (no unemployment, old population), and it is not limited to refugees : which country receive more greeks, french, spanish and italians ? Yeah sure, there's no unemployment in Germany, that's why Merkel got no opposition at all when she decided to welcome immigrants. I also heard all German drive $100,000 Mercedes and that you can find Euro bills in their trash bins. Your response is hillariously dumb but it's okay, everybody does such thing once in a while. PS : up to 5% unemployment is considered full employment. PPS : German unemployment rate dropped by 1 % at least since 2013, so it's now closer to 4% than 5%. + Show Spoiler + Actually right now (Dec 2015) it is 6,1 % according to the Bundesagentur für Arbeit. Thats the departement which should know it. Why you take a reference from 2014 I don´t know. If you consider, that many people are additionally in "training programs" just such that they don´t appear in stastistics of unemployment, the rate will be higher. And ? Compare it to any other european country. I took 2014 just cauz I wanted an image, easy to read for someone. By the way, it's 4.5 here : http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/unemployment-rate Hmm ... interesting, because I normally suspect the unemployment rates to be somewhat whitewashed by officials in Germany with all kind of tricks just to make it look better.
To be fair, this site gives 6,4% as of November 2015, so I guess it's due to different ways to calculate unemployment (whether you take into account "passive" unemployed ppl etc)
http://www.statista.com/statistics/227005/unemployment-rate-in-germany/
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On January 07 2016 07:03 Elizar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2016 06:46 WhiteDog wrote:On January 07 2016 06:16 Elizar wrote:On January 07 2016 05:38 WhiteDog wrote:On January 07 2016 03:22 OtherWorld wrote:On January 06 2016 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:On January 06 2016 21:09 Velr wrote:On January 06 2016 21:06 dismiss wrote:On January 06 2016 20:52 maybenexttime wrote:On January 06 2016 20:29 dismiss wrote:Maybe because Poland was the recipient of vast quantities of money, a large part of which came from Germany, through the EU. It's slightly ironic to expect the government of another country to have your best interests in mind, complaining when they don't, but taking their money regardless. Roughly 80% of the money that Germany gives to Poland through the EU goes directly back to Germany. Add to that the massive loans we have to take mostly in western banks (some of which are German) in order to be able to receive that EU money and the massive profits German companies are making in Poland thanks to the open market or the horrendous sums of money some German companies are illegally funneling out of Poland (some $30 bln during the past several years), and it suddenly stops looking like Germany is giving us charity money... I know it's ironic. You know what's also ironic (or rather hypocritical)? Germany preaching European solidarity while actually not giving shit about it. The funny thing is that our previous government did just that - it seemed to have Germany's best interest in mind, often taking priority over Poland's best interest. Those are some serious conspiracy theories you got going on there, sorry normal economic transactions apparently are Germany's plan to subjugate Poland. Haven't you got the Memo? If a european country has a problem its allways germanies fault. The system is flawed, and germany is one of the few country that benefit from it, so they kinda attract (stupidly, they are not at fault) the blame. Again, the underlying reason as to why german accept that many migrant are economic, and not out of the pureness of their hearth, it's the only country that need that much labor (no unemployment, old population), and it is not limited to refugees : which country receive more greeks, french, spanish and italians ? Yeah sure, there's no unemployment in Germany, that's why Merkel got no opposition at all when she decided to welcome immigrants. I also heard all German drive $100,000 Mercedes and that you can find Euro bills in their trash bins. Your response is hillariously dumb but it's okay, everybody does such thing once in a while. PS : up to 5% unemployment is considered full employment. PPS : German unemployment rate dropped by 1 % at least since 2013, so it's now closer to 4% than 5%. + Show Spoiler + Actually right now (Dec 2015) it is 6,1 % according to the Bundesagentur für Arbeit. Thats the departement which should know it. Why you take a reference from 2014 I don´t know. If you consider, that many people are additionally in "training programs" just such that they don´t appear in stastistics of unemployment, the rate will be higher. And ? Compare it to any other european country. I took 2014 just cauz I wanted an image, easy to read for someone. By the way, it's 4.5 here : http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/unemployment-rate Hmm ... interesting, because I normally suspect the unemployment rates to be somewhat whitewashed by officials in Germany with all kind of tricks just to make it look better.
Tradingeconomics makes a distinction between "unemployment rate" and "seasonally adjusted harmonised jobless rate". The latter is 4,5%, the former at around 6% (what you orginally refered to). It says so on the page as well:
German seasonally adjusted harmonised jobless rate remained steady at 4.5 percent in November [...]
Separate data from the Labour Office showed the number of unemployed persons fell by a higher-than-expected 14000 to 2.757 million in December. The unemployment rate remained steady at a record low of 6.3 percent
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On January 07 2016 07:03 Elizar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2016 06:46 WhiteDog wrote:On January 07 2016 06:16 Elizar wrote:On January 07 2016 05:38 WhiteDog wrote:On January 07 2016 03:22 OtherWorld wrote:On January 06 2016 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:On January 06 2016 21:09 Velr wrote:On January 06 2016 21:06 dismiss wrote:On January 06 2016 20:52 maybenexttime wrote:On January 06 2016 20:29 dismiss wrote:Maybe because Poland was the recipient of vast quantities of money, a large part of which came from Germany, through the EU. It's slightly ironic to expect the government of another country to have your best interests in mind, complaining when they don't, but taking their money regardless. Roughly 80% of the money that Germany gives to Poland through the EU goes directly back to Germany. Add to that the massive loans we have to take mostly in western banks (some of which are German) in order to be able to receive that EU money and the massive profits German companies are making in Poland thanks to the open market or the horrendous sums of money some German companies are illegally funneling out of Poland (some $30 bln during the past several years), and it suddenly stops looking like Germany is giving us charity money... I know it's ironic. You know what's also ironic (or rather hypocritical)? Germany preaching European solidarity while actually not giving shit about it. The funny thing is that our previous government did just that - it seemed to have Germany's best interest in mind, often taking priority over Poland's best interest. Those are some serious conspiracy theories you got going on there, sorry normal economic transactions apparently are Germany's plan to subjugate Poland. Haven't you got the Memo? If a european country has a problem its allways germanies fault. The system is flawed, and germany is one of the few country that benefit from it, so they kinda attract (stupidly, they are not at fault) the blame. Again, the underlying reason as to why german accept that many migrant are economic, and not out of the pureness of their hearth, it's the only country that need that much labor (no unemployment, old population), and it is not limited to refugees : which country receive more greeks, french, spanish and italians ? Yeah sure, there's no unemployment in Germany, that's why Merkel got no opposition at all when she decided to welcome immigrants. I also heard all German drive $100,000 Mercedes and that you can find Euro bills in their trash bins. Your response is hillariously dumb but it's okay, everybody does such thing once in a while. PS : up to 5% unemployment is considered full employment. PPS : German unemployment rate dropped by 1 % at least since 2013, so it's now closer to 4% than 5%. + Show Spoiler + Actually right now (Dec 2015) it is 6,1 % according to the Bundesagentur für Arbeit. Thats the departement which should know it. Why you take a reference from 2014 I don´t know. If you consider, that many people are additionally in "training programs" just such that they don´t appear in stastistics of unemployment, the rate will be higher. And ? Compare it to any other european country. I took 2014 just cauz I wanted an image, easy to read for someone. By the way, it's 4.5 here : http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/unemployment-rate Hmm ... interesting, because I normally suspect the unemployment rates to be somewhat whitewashed by officials in Germany with all kind of tricks just to make it look better.
It is also skewed because 1-€ jobs, temporary employment and other shitty forms of exploitation all count as regular employment in the statistics.
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On January 07 2016 07:32 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2016 07:03 Elizar wrote:On January 07 2016 06:46 WhiteDog wrote:On January 07 2016 06:16 Elizar wrote:On January 07 2016 05:38 WhiteDog wrote:On January 07 2016 03:22 OtherWorld wrote:On January 06 2016 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:On January 06 2016 21:09 Velr wrote:On January 06 2016 21:06 dismiss wrote:On January 06 2016 20:52 maybenexttime wrote:
[quote]
Roughly 80% of the money that Germany gives to Poland through the EU goes directly back to Germany. Add to that the massive loans we have to take mostly in western banks (some of which are German) in order to be able to receive that EU money and the massive profits German companies are making in Poland thanks to the open market or the horrendous sums of money some German companies are illegally funneling out of Poland (some $30 bln during the past several years), and it suddenly stops looking like Germany is giving us charity money...
I know it's ironic. You know what's also ironic (or rather hypocritical)? Germany preaching European solidarity while actually not giving shit about it. The funny thing is that our previous government did just that - it seemed to have Germany's best interest in mind, often taking priority over Poland's best interest. Those are some serious conspiracy theories you got going on there, sorry normal economic transactions apparently are Germany's plan to subjugate Poland. Haven't you got the Memo? If a european country has a problem its allways germanies fault. The system is flawed, and germany is one of the few country that benefit from it, so they kinda attract (stupidly, they are not at fault) the blame. Again, the underlying reason as to why german accept that many migrant are economic, and not out of the pureness of their hearth, it's the only country that need that much labor (no unemployment, old population), and it is not limited to refugees : which country receive more greeks, french, spanish and italians ? Yeah sure, there's no unemployment in Germany, that's why Merkel got no opposition at all when she decided to welcome immigrants. I also heard all German drive $100,000 Mercedes and that you can find Euro bills in their trash bins. Your response is hillariously dumb but it's okay, everybody does such thing once in a while. PS : up to 5% unemployment is considered full employment. PPS : German unemployment rate dropped by 1 % at least since 2013, so it's now closer to 4% than 5%. + Show Spoiler + Actually right now (Dec 2015) it is 6,1 % according to the Bundesagentur für Arbeit. Thats the departement which should know it. Why you take a reference from 2014 I don´t know. If you consider, that many people are additionally in "training programs" just such that they don´t appear in stastistics of unemployment, the rate will be higher. And ? Compare it to any other european country. I took 2014 just cauz I wanted an image, easy to read for someone. By the way, it's 4.5 here : http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/unemployment-rate Hmm ... interesting, because I normally suspect the unemployment rates to be somewhat whitewashed by officials in Germany with all kind of tricks just to make it look better. It is also skewed because 1-€ jobs, temporary employment and other shitty forms of exploitation all count as regular employment in the statistics.
What's good is that migrants don't care and are willing to work for such shitty jobs.
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Wow, just read about what happened in koln on new years eve. That's just incredible.
It barely made the news here and its still difficult to find info on it. But this will have far reaching consequences I fear. Maybe that's why the media don't give it much attention so far,at least not here.
Expected a thread about this on this forum but maybe its to polarizing.
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On January 07 2016 07:00 Elizar wrote:
Believe it or not, not every German agrees on Merkel´s politics. Actually the majority disagrees according to a representative survey Nov 2015 (http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2015-11/angela-merkel-fluechtling-zustimmung-umfrage-thomas-de-maiziere).
I wonder how much that majority rose after The Great Raping of Cologne.
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Anyone see the irony in Merkel trying so hard to be as non-Nazi as possible? By pushing for such obscene flooding of migrants, we are getting disasters like Cologne. This is going to continue because it is simply too many migrants too quickly. As a result, public opinion will grow continually against these migrants and will likely turn into racial bias. The country will advocate for expelling of migrants as events like Cologne inevitably continue to happen.
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On January 07 2016 11:10 Mohdoo wrote:
Anyone see the irony in Merkel trying so hard to be as non-Nazi as possible? By pushing for such obscene flooding of migrants, we are getting disasters like Cologne. This is going to continue because it is simply too many migrants too quickly. As a result, public opinion will grow continually against these migrants and will likely turn into racial bias. The country will advocate for expelling of migrants as events like Cologne inevitably continue to happen.
Contrary to popular believe I don't think that top politicians are gullible, naive or stupid (opposite to many of the people voting them in..), atleast that is my opinion. My suspicion is that Merkel willingly accelerated the immigration thing to reduce social services down the line, maybe in 5 to 10 years. The line of reasoning the chancellor who is in charge of things then will use will read like "in the last years so many more people started to use social services we have to reduce them otherwise we cannot pay for the system anymore". The racial bias growing through her decisions you mentioned will just help to increase popular support for the decisions regarding the future reduction of the welfare state. We live in hardcore capitalistic societies, it is always all about the money. Another nice side effect is that more competition in the lower segments of the job market (through mass immigration of low skilled workers) will help to keep the wages down, isn't that awesome?
Ironically the ones cheering the hardest for mass immigration are more leftist tendentially, they are pro social services, largely against more capitalistic societies with residual welfare states like the US and so on. The irony is that they are gullible enough to help the sharks to install an "americanized" economic and social system they despise so much but are to naive and stupid to see the long term consequences of their doing.
So I don't think Merkel or the strategy consultants around her do anything to be "non nazi" or anything like that, they don't give a fuck. They have two-fisted goals they want to achieve with their decisions and everything done is just a tool to get a step closer towards the realisation of these goals (install residual welfare system first nationally if it works go towards european realisation) That is just my two cents though.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://blog.thomsonreuters.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/euro-unemployment-1024x1024.jpg)
