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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
Or we can look at it realistically and realise that importing people who have proven themselves either liable to commit disgusting crimes over something like insulting Allah, or to commit mass acts of pedophilia, or to brainwash children into becoming suicide bombs is retarded. It's not the responsibility of the host nation to bend to the demands of those seeking asylum, and every single non western nation in the world gives no shits about the opinions of refugees, so why on earth should we?
I once wrote on this site in regards to a women being raped in India when she slept on the side of the road that while awful, she was moronic to stay there. I now realise that not being a piece of shit should have prevented the people in India from raping her, and that frankly she wasn't at fault at all. Like totally not at fault. So when I see any posts at all arguing to start treating refugees better for any reason outside of "it's the right thing to do", I have some serious questions going through my head in relation to why these people are even here. If insulting Allah is going to put you into a murderous rampage, if trying to stop a civil war in Syria (we really shouldn't be there) is going to provoke a murderous rampage, if drinking alcohol and wearing a short skirt is liable to get you raped, then frankly the people going through those actions are so at odds with the societies they are living in that they should not be there at all.
And there are enough polls around demonstrating that a disgustingly large number of muslim refugees think that way, which is worrying, given the very clear demonstration that they are willing to engage in those thoughts.
So yes, where will the blame fall - assigning responsibility for killing someone outside of there own fault disregarding extreme circumstances is absolutely victim blaming - when white people can no longer be the target of choice?
On November 19 2015 20:02 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2015 19:14 Yurie wrote:On November 18 2015 11:21 Deathstar wrote:...
Even the normally reticent police have admitted that some parts of Sweden have become 'no-go' areas for them. As one official explained recently: 'Police, ambulances and the fire brigade are attacked by gangsters. There are a lot of firearms, handguns especially. The kids throw stones at them, too — there are more or less riots. As far as I know the no-go thing is incorrect and comes from bad translations. I did read the original Swedish report a few months ago but can't find it any longer. It said something akin to some areas being more dangerous, not that they were a no-go area. Taken from memory, so might be getting the nuance wrong. Still, if you compare them to many other countries worst areas they are still pretty tame. I as an adult male would be fine with visiting them, though not living in the worst of the worst of them. Sweden has had several large immigration waves and they have all had their problems. The reason this is a problem compared to those is that there isn't a "surplus" of work as when the other ones happened. Leading to a large amount of people not being easy to integrate. If we had 1 million more jobs in largish companies the entire thing would be a minor issue since a very large portion of the immigrants would be forced to integrate by culture exposure at work. the no-go is very correct. swedes refer to them as - neighborhoods where geographically similar people reside; they consider it the politically correct term to use to avoid being called racists.
We have no go zones in Australia with a muslim population of 2%, there is no way a nation like Sweden doesn't have them.
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It is really easy to blame on Muslim/Islam of what happened because that's the most surface factor that average people can see/think of when tragedy like that happened. I'm not on any side, but just saying, there must be couple of billions Muslim out there, the extremists/anyone involved ISIS is like what, 0.01% of the whole Muslim population?
I have seen quite some Muslim who integrated well in UK here, and to be frank, I have no clue they are actually Muslim until they fast before Ramadan haha but that does say a lot doesn't it, people in generally won't accept foreign culture that easily. As someone who spent half of my life in east and half in the west, I can see why some ethical/racial groups having difficulties to fit into the western societies. It is fair to say that however only specific religions tend to have some levels of agreesiveness and invasiveness; yes, I'm saying that if we lived in a world with muslim as the dominant group, the radical groups would have been catholic/some form mix with christianity I'd bet.
Point being is that, I'm surprised to hear that French or Swes exploded with this kind of social integration issues, I have always thought that in UK it is so much harder to fit into the locals. Maybe the Brits are great at pretending/wearing mask.
I see the tragic events happened lately as an alarm, for telling people maybe it is hard to accept some racial or ethical groups in the end of day, but surely we can meet them half way, a little more understanding and respect for everyone would make a better world anyway. I mean, it is bloody ridiculous imagine you have a long time mate who goes out with you all the time (he just doesnt drink) and suddenly he is seen as a potential dangerous extremist.
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I'm very sorry your friend is feeling uncomfortable with people looking at him in suspicious way. Maybe he should actually do something about it and express his frustration and condemn acts of radical Muslims next time he visits a mosque or speaks with an imam.
Maybe Muslims should finally do something themselfs and actually try to prevent those bombings/shootings from happening instead of just tweeting how sorry they are afterwads.
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Oh yes, why doesn't his friend just save all the troubles of Islam by himself, what a civic failure! If the biggest nations on earth can't prevent terrorism a random guy from the UK surely can.
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Can you at least not be fucking dumb for once and understand what i write without me having to literrealy point in your face that i OBVIOUSLY meant Muslim community as a whole?
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And why is an individual in the UK responsible for the Muslim community as a whole? Why does it even make sense to think of 1.6 billion Muslims as "a whole"? How about we start treating people as individuals instead of walking representations of some arbitrary stereotype just because it fits your agenda?
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EDIT: Nvm, not worth my time
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On November 20 2015 02:18 Narw wrote:
I'm very sorry your friend is feeling uncomfortable with people looking at him in suspicious way. Maybe he should actually do something about it and express his frustration and condemn acts of radical Muslims next time he visits a mosque or speaks with an imam.
Maybe Muslims should finally do something themselfs and actually try to prevent those bombings/shootings from happening instead of just tweeting how sorry they are afterwads.
A Muslim comedian said it best: “Guys, I can’t even get a girl to text me back, how do you expect me to stop ISIS?” Maybe temper the expectations a bit.
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On November 20 2015 01:26 BurningSera wrote:
It is really easy to blame on Muslim/Islam of what happened because that's the most surface factor that average people can see/think of when tragedy like that happened. I'm not on any side, but just saying, there must be couple of billions Muslim out there, the extremists/anyone involved ISIS is like what, 0.01% of the whole Muslim population?
I have seen quite some Muslim who integrated well in UK here, and to be frank, I have no clue they are actually Muslim until they fast before Ramadan haha but that does say a lot doesn't it, people in generally won't accept foreign culture that easily. As someone who spent half of my life in east and half in the west, I can see why some ethical/racial groups having difficulties to fit into the western societies. It is fair to say that however only specific religions tend to have some levels of agreesiveness and invasiveness; yes, I'm saying that if we lived in a world with muslim as the dominant group, the radical groups would have been catholic/some form mix with christianity I'd bet.
Point being is that, I'm surprised to hear that French or Swes exploded with this kind of social integration issues, I have always thought that in UK it is so much harder to fit into the locals. Maybe the Brits are great at pretending/wearing mask.
I see the tragic events happened lately as an alarm, for telling people maybe it is hard to accept some racial or ethical groups in the end of day, but surely we can meet them half way, a little more understanding and respect for everyone would make a better world anyway. I mean, it is bloody ridiculous imagine you have a long time mate who goes out with you all the time (he just doesnt drink) and suddenly he is seen as a potential dangerous extremist.
There are always some who integrate very well into society but on a whole muslim immigration had a negative impact on their host countries (higher crime rates, unemployment rates and generally social tensions due to their seclusion). Western society has tried to be understanding and respectful for quite some time now and its time for this policy to change. Switzerland is going in the right direction. Meeting them half way has been generally seen as a weakness, which is also reflected in the background of some of these terrorists (convicted of several crimes but light sentences).
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On November 20 2015 02:31 Nyxisto wrote:
And why is an individual in the UK responsible for the Muslim community as a whole? Why does it even make sense to think of 1.6 billion Muslims as "a whole"? How about we start treating people as individuals instead of walking representations of some arbitrary stereotype just because it fits your agenda?
You're so irrational it's funny. "Start treating people as individuals." We have been playing this game for many years. We know what the muslims believe. We know how they'll behave when they come. This isn't untested grounds.
You're welcome to look at the facts and see what muslims, even western educated muslims, believe.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Yes, lets look at th facts and see what Muslims believe. Turns out that just like every religion of every stripe, there are crazy fundamentalists and not so crazy people who are only token Muslims, only beholden to the social aspects. Ok, granted there is an awful lot of the fundamentalist muslims, but hey the former president of USA thought that God talked to him and invaded Iraq, so as it turns out, you can't paint any peoples as a whole.
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Also there are entire nations of peaceful Muslims.
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What crack me up is that most lefties nowadays would instantly agree that crusade and the inquisition have something to do with catholicism (and that it is bad buh buh), but when you link islam and islamism, then they will find all the possible rhetoric tool to get out of it without "stigmatizing" their newly found dominated heroes.
I don't believe that they are wrong in regards to islam to be clear, it's just the inconsistency that bore me a little. People nowadays take political stance to create an image of themselves, and not to defend values and ideas.
I'm not talking about Plansix or anyone specifically on the forum, just discussions I have outside that came back to me as I read some people arguing on TL.
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On November 20 2015 05:51 Plansix wrote:
Also there are entire nations of peaceful Muslims.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_democracy#Indices_of_democracy_in_Muslim_countries
The "best" Muslim-Majority democracy is Indonesia, which implemented several aspects of Sharia law, and has official state-sanctioned Sharia courts.
Edit. Which is why the argument that ISIS, etc are not Muslim is so specious, because the state they seek to create, eventually worldwide, emulates the governments set up by Muslim majorities around the world.
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By that report, clearly America needs to be or its culture corrected right away. Also, our violence and massive incarcerated population clearly shows that we are a police state by some metrics.
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Supercilious comparison. Sharia law is a very real thing that affects the lives of people who live under those countries. Roswell crash landings and Obama being the anti-Christ might very well be true, but beleiving in the validity of such doesn't affect the lives of people living in USA.
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On November 20 2015 07:38 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Supercilious comparison. Sharia law is a very real thing that affects the lives of people who live under those countries. Roswell crash landings and Obama being the anti-Christ might very well be true, but beleiving in the validity of such doesn't affect the lives of people living in USA.
We have Trump leading the polls become one party's candidate for president. He recently said he thought a Muslim registration program and ID card was a good idea and people cheered. Requiring people to register based on their religion, just like Germany in the 1930s. Who do you think is voting for Trump, not crazy people or those who think Obama is the anti-Christ?
Polls are poor proof of anything without further context. Questions can be leading and vague. There are tons of firms out there willing to pump out polls to fit anyone's specific point of view. And also the country cited has a lower murder rate than the US.
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On November 20 2015 07:38 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Supercilious comparison. Sharia law is a very real thing that affects the lives of people who live under those countries. Roswell crash landings and Obama being the anti-Christ might very well be true, but beleiving in the validity of such doesn't affect the lives of people living in USA.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/1651/gay-lesbian-rights.aspx
Roughly a third believes that consensual homosexual relationships should be illegal according to latest gallup polls, if you want a more serious example. Not to take a jab at Americans, just for comparison, the same is probably true in Europe. Judging the character of a whole nation by this is ridiculous. You can dig out polls to proof everything, it's not a substitute for a coherent argument.
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EPT
