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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On February 24 2022 21:41 r00ty wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2022 21:32 Rowa wrote:+ Show Spoiler +For those who ask: “Why does Ukraine interest Russia so much ? “
Copied from another site. (Original Source Unknown)
It is the second largest country by area in Europe by area and has a population
of over 40 million - more than Poland.
Ukraine ranks:
1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores;
2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves;
2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves);
2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons);
2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves;
3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters)
4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons) Ukraine is an important agricultural country: + Show Spoiler +1st in Europe in terms of arable land area;
3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume);
1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports;
3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world;
4th largest producer of potatoes in the world;
5th largest rye producer in the world;
5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons);
8th place in the world in wheat exports;
9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs;
16th place in the world in cheese exports.
Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people.
Ukraine is an important industrialised country:
1st in Europe in ammonia production;
Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system;
3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants;
3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km);
3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment;
3rd largest iron exporter in the world
4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world;
4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers;
4th place in the world in clay exports
4th place in the world in titanium exports
8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates;
9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products;
10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons). Ukraine matters. That is why its independence is important to the rest of the world. I'd like to add, that there are countries in the middle east, like Lebanon that rely on their agricultural products. People there will starve over this. Also the reason you cannot just close the Bosporus, it would trigger a humanitarian catastrophe.
A food shortage this year was already basically a foregone conclusion given that fertilizer and other agricultural raw materials (e.g. seeds) have seen soaring prices that have ruined third world farmers. Trouble in Ukraine would definitely make that significantly worse.
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Russian Federation102 Posts
Beautiful afternoon! Human history stays the same, the strong take resources from the weak. The West has been way too good at this for past many decades. Glad that Putin is now doing it too.
Strange reading some posting here. USA loves their overlord Israel and does not complain when they bomb children? Strange indeed... All accident can happen in war.
Thank you.
User was banned for this post.
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On February 24 2022 21:53 Mohdoo wrote:
I don’t understand how so many countries have the balls to say “we stand with you” without a single ounce of direct military support
I don't understand how my country can't even do that.
Well, actually, I do. It's because our president is a moron. At least the vice president has condemned the invasion.
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On February 24 2022 22:20 confusedzerg wrote:
Beautiful afternoon! Human history stays the same, the strong take resources from the weak. The West has been way too good at this for past many decades. Glad that Putin is now doing it too.
Strange reading some posting here. USA loves their overlord Israel and does not complain when they bomb children? Strange indeed... All accident can happen in war.
Thank you.
Great way of spreading anti-semitic drivel in an attempt to justify invasions of souvereign countries. I think a post like this should disqualify you from posting on a political forum for how stupid it is, but as i have zero power over that, i will just call you a moron.
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On February 24 2022 22:20 confusedzerg wrote:
Beautiful afternoon! Human history stays the same, the strong take resources from the weak. The West has been way too good at this for past many decades. Glad that Putin is now doing it too.
Strange reading some posting here. USA loves their overlord Israel and does not complain when they bomb children? Strange indeed... All accident can happen in war.
Thank you.
Imagine being such a sociopathic scumbag that you actively cheer on war, lol
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On February 24 2022 22:20 confusedzerg wrote:
the strong take resources from the weak. The West has been way too good at this for past many decades. Glad that Putin is now doing it too.
Now hold on, you were never behind the curve at that one in the first place.
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The Czech Republic is demanding that the EU cut Russia off from SWIFT. Understand that the US could do that without the EU's permission, no idea how but.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWIFT
Also Chief of the German Army made news:
BERLIN — Alfons Mais, the chief of the German army, has sharply criticized the state of the country’s armed forces, slamming underinvestment in its military equipment against the backdrop of a Russian invasion of Ukraine.
“The Bundeswehr, the army that I am privileged to lead, is more or less bare. The options that we can offer the politicians to support the alliance are extremely limited,” Mais wrote in a Linkedin post on Thursday morning.
“We all saw it coming and were not able to get through with our arguments, to draw the conclusions from the Crimean annexation and implement them. This does not feel good! I am pissed off!” Mais, a lieutenant-general, wrote.
Christine Lambrecht, Germany’s defense minister, had also warned that the Bundeswehr was reaching its capacity limits and demanded more financial support from Finance Minister Christian Lindner and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz during the Munich Security Conference late last week.
Demands for military support from Ukraine have become louder after Russia invaded the country in the early hours of Thursday morning.
“The list of defensive weapons that we expect from Germany has been on the table of the minister of defense since February 3 and we hope that at least today we will get an honest answer to this request,” Andrij Melnyk, the Ukrainian ambassador to Germany, told public broadcaster ZDF on Thursday morning.
Robert Habeck, Germany’s vice chancellor in Olaf Scholz’s Cabinet, told public broadcaster ZDF that “In retrospect, one must say … that the West was too naïve.”
Meanwhile, the foreign policy spokesman of the SPD’s parliamentary group, Nils Schmid, told German radio Deutschlandfunk that: “Whether military aid from the West will help at this point remains to be seen.”
Source
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On February 24 2022 22:26 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2022 22:20 confusedzerg wrote:
Beautiful afternoon! Human history stays the same, the strong take resources from the weak. The West has been way too good at this for past many decades. Glad that Putin is now doing it too.
Strange reading some posting here. USA loves their overlord Israel and does not complain when they bomb children? Strange indeed... All accident can happen in war.
Thank you. Imagine being such a sociopathic scumbag that you actively cheer on war, lol
As a neutral I don't see how his comments are any different than the reaction of the majority of people on this forum when a US administration choses its next victim for freedom bombs though.
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Hahaha neutral come on man
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On February 24 2022 22:38 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2022 22:26 Zambrah wrote:On February 24 2022 22:20 confusedzerg wrote:
Beautiful afternoon! Human history stays the same, the strong take resources from the weak. The West has been way too good at this for past many decades. Glad that Putin is now doing it too.
Strange reading some posting here. USA loves their overlord Israel and does not complain when they bomb children? Strange indeed... All accident can happen in war.
Thank you. Imagine being such a sociopathic scumbag that you actively cheer on war, lol As a neutral I don't see how his comments are any different than the reaction of the majority of people on this forum when a US administration choses its next victim for freedom bombs though.
Neither of the things youve said here even vaguely resemble the truth, lol
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On February 24 2022 22:44 Sent. wrote:
Hahaha neutral come on man
Yes, neutral. Maybe when you are stuck in this echo chamber anything that isnt blindly bowing down to NATO foreign policy and propaganda is perceived as 'against us'. Out in the real World this doesn't hold water. Feel free to dig up my posts from the old Ukraine thread. Saying that Maidan was a bad idea and that it will ruin the country was a big no no here. Letting your country become a poking stick to provoke Russia is a bad thing and will end badly. Obvious totallatarian propaganda.
Its been a multi-polar World for some time now. Sticking with idealogical zealotry and forcing your 'right' point of view on everyone else is the reason we are in the mess we are in right now. You are ready to sacrifice xyz amounts of poor people and countries to keep that high horse standing tall.
Edit: only the first line meant for you Sent. The rest at the forum
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On February 24 2022 23:06 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2022 21:32 Rowa wrote:
For those who ask: “Why does Ukraine interest Russia so much ? “
Copied from another site. (Original Source Unknown)
It is the second largest country by area in Europe by area and has a population
of over 40 million - more than Poland.
Ukraine ranks:
1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores;
2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves;
2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves);
2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons);
2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves;
3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters)
4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons)
Ukraine is an important agricultural country:
1st in Europe in terms of arable land area;
3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume);
1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports;
3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world;
4th largest producer of potatoes in the world;
5th largest rye producer in the world;
5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons);
8th place in the world in wheat exports;
9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs;
16th place in the world in cheese exports.
Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people.
Ukraine is an important industrialised country:
1st in Europe in ammonia production;
Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system;
3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants;
3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km);
3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment;
3rd largest iron exporter in the world
4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world;
4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers;
4th place in the world in clay exports
4th place in the world in titanium exports
8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates;
9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products;
10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).
Ukraine matters. That is why its independence is important to the rest of the world. China has pretty large trade with Ukraine oh many of those resources. I wonder if that was talked about in the Recent Chinese Russian talks at the Olympics. China has been careful to walk a line between not condemning but still talking about the importance of sovereignty. I wonder how they will react and if the world not only sanctions Russia, but sanctions people who deal with them. Russia and now with Ukraine is great for raw materials, but compared to western Europe and the US not a great market to sell things too.
Noone is going to meaningfully sanction China, they're far too addicted to the Chinese market for that to happen, we'd have to be less defined by financial interests for that to even be a remote possibility.
Can you imagine what'd happen to the All Mighty Stock Market if there were serious sanctions on China and Russia, we'd be hearing non stop news reports about how the real victims in this situation are people who own lots of stock, lol
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On February 24 2022 23:06 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2022 21:32 Rowa wrote:
For those who ask: “Why does Ukraine interest Russia so much ? “
Copied from another site. (Original Source Unknown)
It is the second largest country by area in Europe by area and has a population
of over 40 million - more than Poland.
Ukraine ranks:
1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores;
2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves;
2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves);
2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons);
2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves;
3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters)
4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons)
Ukraine is an important agricultural country:
1st in Europe in terms of arable land area;
3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume);
1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports;
3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world;
4th largest producer of potatoes in the world;
5th largest rye producer in the world;
5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons);
8th place in the world in wheat exports;
9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs;
16th place in the world in cheese exports.
Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people.
Ukraine is an important industrialised country:
1st in Europe in ammonia production;
Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system;
3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants;
3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km);
3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment;
3rd largest iron exporter in the world
4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world;
4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers;
4th place in the world in clay exports
4th place in the world in titanium exports
8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates;
9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products;
10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).
Ukraine matters. That is why its independence is important to the rest of the world. China has pretty large trade with Ukraine oh many of those resources. I wonder if that was talked about in the Recent Chinese Russian talks at the Olympics. China has been careful to walk a line between not condemning but still talking about the importance of sovereignty. I wonder how they will react and if the world not only sanctions Russia, but sanctions people who deal with them. Russia and now with Ukraine is great for raw materials, but compared to western Europe and the US not a great market to sell things too.
Wont ever happen, especially sanctioning China. The entire system of Capitalism relies on China and it's engine of cheap expendable labor. The most realist strategy is to try and convince Xi to pressure Russia.
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On February 24 2022 23:09 zeo wrote:Yes, neutral. Maybe when you are stuck in this echo chamber anything that isnt blindly bowing down to NATO foreign policy and propaganda is perceived as 'against us'. Out in the real World this doesn't hold water. Feel free to dig up my posts from the old Ukraine thread. Saying that Maidan was a bad idea and that it will ruin the country was a big no no here. Letting your country become a poking stick to provoke Russia is a bad thing and will end badly. Obvious totallatarian propaganda. Its been a multi-polar World for some time now. Sticking with idealogical zealotry and forcing your 'right' point of view on everyone else is the reason we are in the mess we are in right now. You are ready to sacrifice xyz amounts of poor people and countries to keep that high horse standing tall. Edit: only the first line meant for you Sent. The rest at the forum
What you're saying is in clear opposition to Ukrainian or Western positions, which is why I think you can't claim neutrality here just because you're not voicing a support for the Russian attack.
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Norway Coastguard, and Police appears to be taking control of a Yacht owned by former KGB associate.
Also Czech Republic has suspended granting Visas to Russian citizens.
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On February 24 2022 22:38 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2022 22:26 Zambrah wrote:On February 24 2022 22:20 confusedzerg wrote:
Beautiful afternoon! Human history stays the same, the strong take resources from the weak. The West has been way too good at this for past many decades. Glad that Putin is now doing it too.
Strange reading some posting here. USA loves their overlord Israel and does not complain when they bomb children? Strange indeed... All accident can happen in war.
Thank you. Imagine being such a sociopathic scumbag that you actively cheer on war, lol As a neutral I don't see how his comments are any different than the reaction of the majority of people on this forum when a US administration choses its next victim for freedom bombs though.
He's an obvious troll pulling a whataboutism which while containing some facts, is intended to disrupt discourse. I'm not even a fan of the "whataboutism" defense, as I find it rejects nuance and perspective, but he's the definition of a bad faith actor and it is not limited to this thread. Look at his signature, for example.
By the same token, yes, this site largely espouses Western, liberal, and American Democrat views, to the point where presenting opposing viewpoints will be met with a wave of opposition in turn that may be met with opposition due to sheer numbers difference.
As a poster said earlier, there is heavy bias on both sides of reporting this, on both sides of discussing this.
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On February 24 2022 23:25 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2022 23:09 zeo wrote:On February 24 2022 22:44 Sent. wrote:
Hahaha neutral come on man Yes, neutral. Maybe when you are stuck in this echo chamber anything that isnt blindly bowing down to NATO foreign policy and propaganda is perceived as 'against us'. Out in the real World this doesn't hold water. Feel free to dig up my posts from the old Ukraine thread. Saying that Maidan was a bad idea and that it will ruin the country was a big no no here. Letting your country become a poking stick to provoke Russia is a bad thing and will end badly. Obvious totallatarian propaganda. Its been a multi-polar World for some time now. Sticking with idealogical zealotry and forcing your 'right' point of view on everyone else is the reason we are in the mess we are in right now. You are ready to sacrifice xyz amounts of poor people and countries to keep that high horse standing tall. Edit: only the first line meant for you Sent. The rest at the forum What you're saying is in clear opposition to Ukrainian or Western positions, which is why I think you can't claim neutrality here just because you're not voicing a support for the Russian attack.
The Ukrainian position that came to power after a coup. The same position that has actively looked to suffocate any other opinion in the country for the last 8 years. Banning media and arresting/beating/killing anyone telling them that they are wrong.
Don't take my word for it. Look at the Russian armor strolling through the coutryside without resistance and waiting for the civilians to take control of the cities themselves. The same civilians that have been put down and discriminated against since Maidan.
This could have all been avoided.
Edit: Just to be clear, i do not support Russian armor strolling through the coutryside. This is all the fault of NATO and Russia playing their power games in a poor country with easly corruptable politicians and a hungry population desperate for a better life. Be that in the east or west
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On February 24 2022 23:09 zeo wrote:Yes, neutral. Maybe when you are stuck in this echo chamber anything that isnt blindly bowing down to NATO foreign policy and propaganda is perceived as 'against us'. Out in the real World this doesn't hold water. Feel free to dig up my posts from the old Ukraine thread. Saying that Maidan was a bad idea and that it will ruin the country was a big no no here. Letting your country become a poking stick to provoke Russia is a bad thing and will end badly. Obvious totallatarian propaganda. Its been a multi-polar World for some time now. Sticking with idealogical zealotry and forcing your 'right' point of view on everyone else is the reason we are in the mess we are in right now. You are ready to sacrifice xyz amounts of poor people and countries to keep that high horse standing tall. Edit: only the first line meant for you Sent. The rest at the forum
We did not force our point of view on anyone. Ukraine chose to be an independent country. Russia is denying that right by invading them. Russia has no right to dictate how the society of their neighbor is structured. The same way the USA has no right to bomb middle eastern countries. As long as your argument is that russia got provoked by NATO to attack their neighbor, you are wrong and any argument based on that is wrong. Russia could be a completely happy murderous dictatorship whithout ever worrying about their souvereingity, even if ukraine would be in NATO.
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Ridiculous to me how individuals' property and freedom can be limited on a whim due to the actions of their native government. It feels like a direct attack on Russian people to apply pressure on the Russian government, which certainly makes sense but doesn't feel very moral or democratic. In a way, it shows how powerless these governments truly are at making any material difference to the actual conflict at hand.
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EPT
