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On July 28 2018 21:40 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2018 19:39 warding wrote:Late to the conversation but I'd add that nobody in Portugal talks about raising military spending (1.3% of GDP currently). It's a complete non-issue and it simply won't happen. I do think we should build up our armed forces and invade Morocco to avenge the death of Sebastian, but I think I'm pretty much alone in this. There's also no such thing as alt-right here. The populist right here is kind of restricted to taxi drivers and their political battle is against Uber drivers, not immigrants. I think it's a bigger talking point in the US than elsewhere because... well... the US keeps getting into wars. The US has been the world's policeman for a good while, but just because it decides to stop doesn't mean someone else will fill the void. There's no major talk of increasing defense spending in the UK either. At least not in a major way. Labour wants to cut it, the Tories want to increase it a bit. Same as always.
The UK spends enough (2.1% in 2017), nobody asks them to spend much more than that.
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Quote and Edit buttons should have different colours.
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This is an anecdotal post. There was some talking about how defining some behavior "racist" or "fascist" is not appropriate when they are not expressed explicitly as such, and how it is an exaggeration which devoid the definition of its meaning.
How worrying and grave do you consider having a vice-premier in Italy (covering Internal affairs) posting this sentence on FB:
"many enemies, much honor"
which is generally linked to its use from Mussolini during the Fascism in Italy.
And he posts it on the day that's Mussolini's birthday.
Should I just think it's a joke and laugh it off?
Should I really assume that there is no intention to recall Mussolini's memory?
Or should I be very worried?
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On July 31 2018 00:26 VHbb wrote:
This is an anecdotal post. There was some talking about how defining some behavior "racist" or "fascist" is not appropriate when they are not expressed explicitly as such, and how it is an exaggeration which devoid the definition of its meaning.
How worrying and grave do you consider having a vice-premier in Italy (covering Internal affairs) posting this sentence on FB:
"many enemies, much honor"
which is generally linked to its use from Mussolini during the Fascism in Italy.
And he posts it on the day that's Mussolini's birthday.
Should I just think it's a joke and laugh it off?
Should I really assume that there is no intention to recall Mussolini's memory?
Or should I be very worried?
I'd assume it's in the same category as what in the US is sometimes referred to as dog-whistle politics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics
tldr from the wiki "Dog-whistle politics is political messaging employing coded language that appears to mean one thing to the general population but has an additional, different, or more specific resonance for a targeted subgroup. "
I'd consider such a thing to be mildly worrying, and a mark against that vice-premier. I'd assume they meant to do it intentionally as a nod to such inclinations, either due to agreeing with them, or simply as a political tactic to gain votes by pandering to such people.
racism is better looked at as a continuum than an on/off thing. not sure about fascism.
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It's a common sayig in German, I never linked it to Mussolini and it goes way back to the 16th century in German.
Besides the fact that it is completely irrational, I believe it is stupid to link folk wisdom + Show Spoiler +folk wisdom - is this really an English word or did google bullshit me with a Germanism?
My personal worst stigma case is "to each their own", which was used at some Nazi concentration camp.
Self-declared liberals should focus a little more on the fact that the Austrian vice chancellor and FPÖ-head used to be a fully fledged Nazi activist and a little less on his double-tongued use of common sayings.
I belive similar things can be said about Salvini and former comments. Dog whisteling is bad, but fighting it openly has the reverse effect. People will tell you you hear what you want to hear and maybe at times they are right.
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From the American perspective, ignoring or disregarding dog whistle racism/fascism has not really yielded great results. It is the foundation that allows full fledged Nazi actives to take office.
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On July 31 2018 01:20 Plansix wrote:
From the American perspective, ignoring or disregarding dog whistle racism/fascism has not really yielded great results. It is the foundation that allows full fledged Nazi actives to take office.
The point is you cannot properly explain encrpyted messges to everybody easily. That is why it is code. There is a certain use to telling people that it is code. But you have to be careful giving each and everyone a free pass to interprete *whatever they want* into *whatever has been said*. I think being very clear on your own messages, sticking to your promises and holding political competitors responsible on what they have literally said is a much more understandable approach.
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On July 31 2018 02:17 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2018 01:20 Plansix wrote:
From the American perspective, ignoring or disregarding dog whistle racism/fascism has not really yielded great results. It is the foundation that allows full fledged Nazi actives to take office. The point is you cannot properly explain encrpyted messges to everybody easily. That is why it is code. There is a certain use to telling people that it is code. But you have to be careful giving each and everyone a free pass to interprete *whatever they want* into *whatever has been said*. I think being very clear on your own messages, sticking to your promises and holding political competitors responsible on what they have literally said is a much more understandable approach.
Again, I am not convinced. What you just described is the US's Jeff Sessions, the guy currently executing state funded child abuse in the US by taking children away from asylum seekers and then deporting their parents. He never said he was going to do it out loud, only that he was going to "make the border secure" and "stop illegal immigrants".
The problem with dealing with folks that use dog whistle tactics is that they are shameless. They lack the courage of their convictions and will say anything to avoid being held accountable for their views while keeping power. It is impossible to hold shameless people accountable in the debate of ideas, because they never admit defeat. They will just turn around and say a loss is a victory. They are not playing by the rules. They hate the rules and only use them to punish their opponents.
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On July 31 2018 01:00 Big J wrote:It's a common sayig in German, I never linked it to Mussolini and it goes way back to the 16th century in German. Besides the fact that it is completely irrational, I believe it is stupid to link folk wisdom + Show Spoiler +folk wisdom - is this really an English word or did google bullshit me with a Germanism? to fascists in this way. Making these things exclusive is what is giving them power. My personal worst stigma case is "to each their own", which was used at some Nazi concentration camp. Self-declared liberals should focus a little more on the fact that the Austrian vice chancellor and FPÖ-head used to be a fully fledged Nazi activist and a little less on his double-tongued use of common sayings. I belive similar things can be said about Salvini and former comments. Dog whisteling is bad, but fighting it openly has the reverse effect. People will tell you you hear what you want to hear and maybe at times they are right.
I don't understand why it is irrational in your eyes. In Italy that quote is almost always linked to Mussolini, so using it (on that specific date) and claiming that it was just a common German saying.. it feels very forced.
We are not talking about one of my friend, who perhaps heard it around and repeated it without thinking much about it, we are talking about someone holding an important position in our government.
Either I think that he does not know the (perhaps wrong) association to Mussolini and forgot that it was the date of Mussolini's birthday, either I think that it was on purpose.
If it is on purpose, than it is extremely serious: one cannot keep ignoring these things because 'it gives them power'. They already *have* power, that's what worries me. If it were the leader of some small far-right party which isn't even in the government, then who cares, they'll do it and continue doing it. This is Salvini which is, to an extend, representing our country.
Also worrying to me is: what happens when the (very small, yes) fraction of people who actually consider themselves fascist in Italy (I'm thinking fringe parties and small movements of the far right) hear these statements, and see this support from our government?
Doesn't this give them courage and support to start pursuing their objectives with less fear of the law?
We are talking about Fascism in Italy, this hold some weight given the history of our country.. it *has* to.
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On July 31 2018 02:32 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2018 02:17 Big J wrote:On July 31 2018 01:20 Plansix wrote:
From the American perspective, ignoring or disregarding dog whistle racism/fascism has not really yielded great results. It is the foundation that allows full fledged Nazi actives to take office. The point is you cannot properly explain encrpyted messges to everybody easily. That is why it is code. There is a certain use to telling people that it is code. But you have to be careful giving each and everyone a free pass to interprete *whatever they want* into *whatever has been said*. I think being very clear on your own messages, sticking to your promises and holding political competitors responsible on what they have literally said is a much more understandable approach. Again, I am not convinced. What you just described is the US's Jeff Sessions, the guy currently executing state funded child abuse in the US by taking children away from asylum seekers and then deporting their parents. He never said he was going to do it out loud, only that he was going to "make the border secure" and "stop illegal immigrants". The problem with dealing with folks that use dog whistle tactics is that they are shameless. They lack the courage of their convictions and will say anything to avoid being held accountable for their views while keeping power. It is impossible to hold shameless people accountable in the debate of ideas, because they never admit defeat. They will just turn around and say a loss is a victory. They are not playing by the rules. They hate the rules and only use them to punish their opponents.
From what you are writing Jeff Sessions is not dog whistling. He made a claim to "reach a goal" + Show Spoiler +which in itself is already a completely delusional approach as we have seen from 50-years of central planning
That is just the difference between the approach of a technician, so someone whose approaches live in the real world, and a right-wing bourgeoise, who believes that because his mommy loved him and his daddy had money, he can demand whatever he wants from the world.
And yes, you won't find anybody more convinced than me, that the conservatives are nothing but the bottom of the society, the weakest of the weak. Formed by inheritance principles rather than social, competitive interactions, all they got is feudalism and "god". That's why they hate rules, they hate states, they societies, they hate freedom. Everything that follows a strict definition or order is their enemy, which is why they clinch to Führers, leaders, kings, gods and whatever other social establishment allows them to argue based on arbitrariness, rather than reason or logical consistences (concepts that follow rules). They are shameless indeed, because they are too weak to win an argument based on principles, axioms or whatever you want to call it. Even if you argue based on their principles they won't be able to make a consistent argument.
I have not once, not a single time, found a rational thinker that wasn't a liberal or socialist. There are no intellectual conservatives, they don't exist and they have never existed.
Show nested quote +On July 31 2018 02:44 VHbb wrote:On July 31 2018 01:00 Big J wrote:It's a common sayig in German, I never linked it to Mussolini and it goes way back to the 16th century in German. Besides the fact that it is completely irrational, I believe it is stupid to link folk wisdom + Show Spoiler +folk wisdom - is this really an English word or did google bullshit me with a Germanism? to fascists in this way. Making these things exclusive is what is giving them power. My personal worst stigma case is "to each their own", which was used at some Nazi concentration camp. Self-declared liberals should focus a little more on the fact that the Austrian vice chancellor and FPÖ-head used to be a fully fledged Nazi activist and a little less on his double-tongued use of common sayings. I belive similar things can be said about Salvini and former comments. Dog whisteling is bad, but fighting it openly has the reverse effect. People will tell you you hear what you want to hear and maybe at times they are right. I don't understand why it is irrational in your eyes. In Italy that quote is almost always linked to Mussolini, so using it (on that specific date) and claiming that it was just a common German saying.. it feels very forced. We are not talking about one of my friend, who perhaps heard it around and repeated it without thinking much about it, we are talking about someone holding an important position in our government. Either I think that he does not know the (perhaps wrong) association to Mussolini and forgot that it was the date of Mussolini's birthday, either I think that it was on purpose. If it is on purpose, than it is extremely serious: one cannot keep ignoring these things because 'it gives them power'. They already *have* power, that's what worries me. If it were the leader of some small far-right party which isn't even in the government, then who cares, they'll do it and continue doing it. This is Salvini which is, to an extend, representing our country. Also worrying to me is: what happens when the (very small, yes) fraction of people who actually consider themselves fascist in Italy (I'm thinking fringe parties and small movements of the far right) hear these statements, and see this support from our government? Doesn't this give them courage and support to start pursuing their objectives with less fear of the law? We are talking about Fascism in Italy, this hold some weight given the history of our country.. it *has* to.
The meaning of the saying is irrational.
You shouldn't ignore the statements, you should learn to live with them and learn to punish their mistakes, when they lean out too much. If it is dog whistling it means you don't have a broad understanding of the issue within the less politically interested people. You will come of as the jerk and they win either way. There are battles you shouldn't take, because you can only lose.
And no, "your" history doesn't matter. It's not your personal fault. Learn from history, but don't hold yourself or others responsible for it. People don't like that, with very rational reasoning. Don't be more conservative than the right.
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Show nested quote +On July 31 2018 02:44 VHbb wrote:On July 31 2018 01:00 Big J wrote:It's a common sayig in German, I never linked it to Mussolini and it goes way back to the 16th century in German. Besides the fact that it is completely irrational, I believe it is stupid to link folk wisdom + Show Spoiler +folk wisdom - is this really an English word or did google bullshit me with a Germanism? to fascists in this way. Making these things exclusive is what is giving them power. My personal worst stigma case is "to each their own", which was used at some Nazi concentration camp. Self-declared liberals should focus a little more on the fact that the Austrian vice chancellor and FPÖ-head used to be a fully fledged Nazi activist and a little less on his double-tongued use of common sayings. I belive similar things can be said about Salvini and former comments. Dog whisteling is bad, but fighting it openly has the reverse effect. People will tell you you hear what you want to hear and maybe at times they are right. I don't understand why it is irrational in your eyes. In Italy that quote is almost always linked to Mussolini, so using it (on that specific date) and claiming that it was just a common German saying.. it feels very forced. We are not talking about one of my friend, who perhaps heard it around and repeated it without thinking much about it, we are talking about someone holding an important position in our government. Either I think that he does not know the (perhaps wrong) association to Mussolini and forgot that it was the date of Mussolini's birthday, either I think that it was on purpose. If it is on purpose, than it is extremely serious: one cannot keep ignoring these things because 'it gives them power'. They already *have* power, that's what worries me. If it were the leader of some small far-right party which isn't even in the government, then who cares, they'll do it and continue doing it. This is Salvini which is, to an extend, representing our country. Also worrying to me is: what happens when the (very small, yes) fraction of people who actually consider themselves fascist in Italy (I'm thinking fringe parties and small movements of the far right) hear these statements, and see this support from our government? Doesn't this give them courage and support to start pursuing their objectives with less fear of the law? We are talking about Fascism in Italy, this hold some weight given the history of our country.. it *has* to.
The meaning of the saying is irrational.
You shouldn't ignore the statements, you should learn to live with them and learn to punish their mistakes, when they lean out too much. If it is dog whistling it means you don't have a broad understanding of the issue within the less politically interested people. You will come of as the jerk and they win either way. There are battles you shouldn't take, because you can only lose.
And no, "your" history doesn't matter. It's not your personal fault. Learn from history, but don't hold yourself or others responsible for it. People don't like that, with very rational reasoning. Don't be more conservative than the right.[/QUOTE]
(the meaning of the saying is not irrational: it means that the more enemies you have, the more honor you'll get by defeating them. It's like saying that if you defeat 100 koreans at SC2 you have more honor than by defeating just 1  )
I strongly disagree on this last point, I didn't talk about responsibility. If my grandfather was directly affected by fascism and told me about it directly, I am surely more influenced by these types of behavior from the current far right (or whoever).
To be fair, I'm quite sick of this reasoning: "you should ignore this and this because it will only be an advantage for your opponent".
Supporting fascism (openly) from an institutional role, in Italy, should not pass by -- there *should* always be people that speak up to these things. Maybe right now, in the next months polls, it will be detrimental, but creating an environment where we just shut up about it is not the way to go, I am quite convinced about this.
(I get that you want to appear "strong" and decisive with how you write, but it sounds a bit like shutting down any discussion, if you just reply "no, your history doesn't matter" full stop ...come on)
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Show nested quote +On July 31 2018 05:41 VHbb wrote:On July 31 2018 02:44 VHbb wrote:On July 31 2018 01:00 Big J wrote:It's a common sayig in German, I never linked it to Mussolini and it goes way back to the 16th century in German. Besides the fact that it is completely irrational, I believe it is stupid to link folk wisdom + Show Spoiler +folk wisdom - is this really an English word or did google bullshit me with a Germanism? to fascists in this way. Making these things exclusive is what is giving them power. My personal worst stigma case is "to each their own", which was used at some Nazi concentration camp. Self-declared liberals should focus a little more on the fact that the Austrian vice chancellor and FPÖ-head used to be a fully fledged Nazi activist and a little less on his double-tongued use of common sayings. I belive similar things can be said about Salvini and former comments. Dog whisteling is bad, but fighting it openly has the reverse effect. People will tell you you hear what you want to hear and maybe at times they are right. I don't understand why it is irrational in your eyes. In Italy that quote is almost always linked to Mussolini, so using it (on that specific date) and claiming that it was just a common German saying.. it feels very forced. We are not talking about one of my friend, who perhaps heard it around and repeated it without thinking much about it, we are talking about someone holding an important position in our government. Either I think that he does not know the (perhaps wrong) association to Mussolini and forgot that it was the date of Mussolini's birthday, either I think that it was on purpose. If it is on purpose, than it is extremely serious: one cannot keep ignoring these things because 'it gives them power'. They already *have* power, that's what worries me. If it were the leader of some small far-right party which isn't even in the government, then who cares, they'll do it and continue doing it. This is Salvini which is, to an extend, representing our country. Also worrying to me is: what happens when the (very small, yes) fraction of people who actually consider themselves fascist in Italy (I'm thinking fringe parties and small movements of the far right) hear these statements, and see this support from our government? Doesn't this give them courage and support to start pursuing their objectives with less fear of the law? We are talking about Fascism in Italy, this hold some weight given the history of our country.. it *has* to. The meaning of the saying is irrational. You shouldn't ignore the statements, you should learn to live with them and learn to punish their mistakes, when they lean out too much. If it is dog whistling it means you don't have a broad understanding of the issue within the less politically interested people. You will come of as the jerk and they win either way. There are battles you shouldn't take, because you can only lose. And no, "your" history doesn't matter. It's not your personal fault. Learn from history, but don't hold yourself or others responsible for it. People don't like that, with very rational reasoning. Don't be more conservative than the right. (the meaning of the saying is not irrational: it means that the more enemies you have, the more honor you'll get by defeating them. It's like saying that if you defeat 100 koreans at SC2 you have more honor than by defeating just 1 ) I strongly disagree on this last point, I didn't talk about responsibility. If my grandfather was directly affected by fascism and told me about it directly, I am surely more influenced by these types of behavior from the current far right (or whoever). To be fair, I'm quite sick of this reasoning: "you should ignore this and this because it will only be an advantage for your opponent". Supporting fascism (openly) from an institutional role, in Italy, should not pass by -- there *should* always be people that speak up to these things. Maybe right now, in the next months polls, it will be detrimental, but creating an environment where we just shut up about it is not the way to go, I am quite convinced about this. (I get that you want to appear "strong" and decisive with how you write, but it sounds a bit like shutting down any discussion, if you just reply "no, your history doesn't matter" full stop ...come on)
Yeah, I don't give much about "honor". And dropping an atomic bomb on an "enemy" army is hardly anything I think of highly, regardless how you define honor exactly, so the saying is pretty irrational.
You shouldn't ignore it. But I personally don't see much good in repeating the same intellectual reasoning over and over again in intellectual bubbles.
I didn't say "your history", I said ""your" history", as in, a history that is not your own but that of other people. You can discuss it all you want, it doesn't make you exist before you actually existed. Hence forcing some legacy of my ancestors upon me is fascism, while forcing me to accept some legacy of your ancestors is pretentious and unfair.
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On July 31 2018 06:52 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2018 05:41 VHbb wrote:On July 31 2018 02:44 VHbb wrote:On July 31 2018 01:00 Big J wrote:It's a common sayig in German, I never linked it to Mussolini and it goes way back to the 16th century in German. Besides the fact that it is completely irrational, I believe it is stupid to link folk wisdom + Show Spoiler +folk wisdom - is this really an English word or did google bullshit me with a Germanism? to fascists in this way. Making these things exclusive is what is giving them power. My personal worst stigma case is "to each their own", which was used at some Nazi concentration camp. Self-declared liberals should focus a little more on the fact that the Austrian vice chancellor and FPÖ-head used to be a fully fledged Nazi activist and a little less on his double-tongued use of common sayings. I belive similar things can be said about Salvini and former comments. Dog whisteling is bad, but fighting it openly has the reverse effect. People will tell you you hear what you want to hear and maybe at times they are right. I don't understand why it is irrational in your eyes. In Italy that quote is almost always linked to Mussolini, so using it (on that specific date) and claiming that it was just a common German saying.. it feels very forced. We are not talking about one of my friend, who perhaps heard it around and repeated it without thinking much about it, we are talking about someone holding an important position in our government. Either I think that he does not know the (perhaps wrong) association to Mussolini and forgot that it was the date of Mussolini's birthday, either I think that it was on purpose. If it is on purpose, than it is extremely serious: one cannot keep ignoring these things because 'it gives them power'. They already *have* power, that's what worries me. If it were the leader of some small far-right party which isn't even in the government, then who cares, they'll do it and continue doing it. This is Salvini which is, to an extend, representing our country. Also worrying to me is: what happens when the (very small, yes) fraction of people who actually consider themselves fascist in Italy (I'm thinking fringe parties and small movements of the far right) hear these statements, and see this support from our government? Doesn't this give them courage and support to start pursuing their objectives with less fear of the law? We are talking about Fascism in Italy, this hold some weight given the history of our country.. it *has* to. The meaning of the saying is irrational. You shouldn't ignore the statements, you should learn to live with them and learn to punish their mistakes, when they lean out too much. If it is dog whistling it means you don't have a broad understanding of the issue within the less politically interested people. You will come of as the jerk and they win either way. There are battles you shouldn't take, because you can only lose. And no, "your" history doesn't matter. It's not your personal fault. Learn from history, but don't hold yourself or others responsible for it. People don't like that, with very rational reasoning. Don't be more conservative than the right. (the meaning of the saying is not irrational: it means that the more enemies you have, the more honor you'll get by defeating them. It's like saying that if you defeat 100 koreans at SC2 you have more honor than by defeating just 1 ) I strongly disagree on this last point, I didn't talk about responsibility. If my grandfather was directly affected by fascism and told me about it directly, I am surely more influenced by these types of behavior from the current far right (or whoever). To be fair, I'm quite sick of this reasoning: "you should ignore this and this because it will only be an advantage for your opponent". Supporting fascism (openly) from an institutional role, in Italy, should not pass by -- there *should* always be people that speak up to these things. Maybe right now, in the next months polls, it will be detrimental, but creating an environment where we just shut up about it is not the way to go, I am quite convinced about this. (I get that you want to appear "strong" and decisive with how you write, but it sounds a bit like shutting down any discussion, if you just reply "no, your history doesn't matter" full stop ...come on) Yeah, I don't give much about "honor". And dropping an atomic bomb on an "enemy" army is hardly anything I think of highly, regardless how you define honor exactly, so the saying is pretty irrational. You shouldn't ignore it. But I personally don't see much good in repeating the same intellectual reasoning over and over again in intellectual bubbles. I didn't say "your history", I said ""your" history", as in, a history that is not your own but that of other people. You can discuss it all you want, it doesn't make you exist before you actually existed. Hence forcing some legacy of my ancestors upon me is fascism, while forcing me to accept some legacy of your ancestors is pretentious and unfair.
I am eagerly awaiting Plansix (or GH) to reply to this post. I have my popcorn all ready. The contrast to the recent discussions in the USPMT is pretty damn striking (and by recent I mean ongoing pretty much since page 2 of the original thread).
User was warned for this post.
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Hypothesis: I don't believe that that tweet qualifies as supporting fascism openly in Italy from an institutional role. I could think of other reasons to tweet a Mussolini quote on his birthday. My guess would be Salvini used it to say, "F the haters."
The quote sounds very pretty! I did a quick search of this. CNN told me it was in response to a magazine article about his critics, "the Catholic Church and leading left-wing intellectuals," and his coinciding rise in popularity.
That's a pretty big assumption to make; we'll have to remember we made it. The article he is "responding to" will be critical info.
Upon seeing the tweet: Maan, that kissy-face comes off as douchey. Could be cultural difference, though; like maybe Italians spam kissy-face? IDK. The tweet did seem to be in response to a magazine article he's linked in his tweet, but it's in Italian and I can't translate it ATM. The actual article's words are crucial: Without them, I can't even be sure if Salvini was blowing a kiss to his haters, or blowing a kiss to the article's sympathetic author, or vigorously blowing Mussolini himself. Maybe CNN will enlighten me.
https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/07/30/europe/salvini-mussolini-italy-intl/
The VERY NEXT SENTENCE starts, "Separately, in an interview. . ." and that's it. ("Separately" is the sign we are about to wander off.) From the 4th paragraph onwards, it doesn't mention the tweet again, nor the article the tweet was in response to, nor the Catholic Church, nor the leading left-wing intellectuals, nor his rise in popularity. It mentions a Roman Catholic magazine, Famiglia Christiana, critiquing him; this is bookended by excerpts from an undated and uncited interview Salvini did with the UK's Sunday Times. (Huh?)
Obviously maybe that's the "Catholic Church" but so what? I'm just totally over it. I am struggling to retain objectivity due to frustration, so I will end my adventure here.
It's hard to know what was in the original writer's heart, and I don't want to jump to any conclusions, so this was entirely inconclusive. Trust me when I say, "I am sorry for the gigantic waste of time."
Separately, in an interview, CNN said, "I hate puppies. A lot. And I like melting your brain by titling articles with clickbait that only 3/11 paragraphs even talk about."
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Tommy Robinson released on bail and a rehearing will be scheduled. It's interesting that the UK recognized that there was no due process in his arrest.
He's known as far-right in the UK. I assume that's because he is the leader of EDL, who's goal is to fight against Muslim jihad that they believe is happening in the UK. He was jailed in connection to his protesting closed hearing's involving child sex gangs in the UK.
Found this interesting, many people in the US find him to be a symbol for free speech. What do you guys think?
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He was jailed in connection to his protesting but not because of it. He was jailed for breaking the law.
There is a UK politics thread, you should post it there as it's offtopic here.
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So Denmark's Hijab law went into force just as in many other EU countries. Would be interesting if there was a classical Christian mark that was argued against. Can't think of any really visible ones to target though.
Interesting trend of using secularism as argument against cultures you don't like. The contrast to the US on how the issue is approached is pretty interesting to me. In Denmark it holds up decently since the biggest religion is a lack of one with 50-60% participation. Though having a state church speaks against that to a large degree.
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Tiny point: The Hijab covers the head, hair and neck(sometimes). They don't cover the face. The Denmark law bans veils, called a niqab, which cover the face.
Other than that, I think the law is misguided in its intent. It places the burden on Muslim women who wear the niqab(who are already a minority within Muslim culture) to push against the fundamentalist tradition of their communities. I fear the end result is that they will be forced by that community to not leave the house or stay out of sight, rather than switch over to the more open hijab.
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On August 02 2018 03:31 basedFinn wrote:
Tommy Robinson released on bail and a rehearing will be scheduled. It's interesting that the UK recognized that there was no due process in his arrest.
He's known as far-right in the UK. I assume that's because he is the leader of EDL, who's goal is to fight against Muslim jihad that they believe is happening in the UK. He was jailed in connection to his protesting closed hearing's involving child sex gangs in the UK.
Found this interesting, many people in the US find him to be a symbol for free speech. What do you guys think?
He's sabotaging his own cause by derailing the grooming trials.
I don't see why he'd be a symbol of free speech in the US, they understand the concept of contempt of court across the Atlantic as well. I doubt 'many people in the US' even heard his name. Perhaps he's a hero of free speech in a certain drab corner on the internet by virtue of disliking the same groups of people they do.
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EPT
