|
Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On July 24 2018 19:49 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:All I've heard about the wildfires in Europe is mostly in Sweden, Greece is just as bad if not worse. Almsot 50 dead  Show nested quote +ATHENS — Fast-moving wildfires near Athens have killed at least 49 people, officials said on Tuesday, and have forced thousands of tourists and residents to flee any way they could, with some even taking to rickety boats to escape.
Gale-force winds topping 50 miles an hour have fanned a pair of fires that tore through seaside areas popular with travelers, injuring at least 156 people and leaving a trail of charred resorts, burned-out cars and smoldering farms in their wake. Many evacuation routes were blocked, and people who did manage to escape by road had to drive through choking smoke, sometimes with walls of flame leaping through trees just yards away.
Greece’s emergency services were stretched to capacity, as more than 600 firefighters and 250 fire engines were deployed to the sites of the two largest fires, in and around Rafina, about 15 miles east of Athens, and Kineta, about 30 miles west of the capital. The country’s entire fleet of water-dropping aircraft was deployed on Monday, and officials called on their partners in the European Union for help.
Europe has sweltered through an unusually hot and dry summer, breaking temperature records and fueling significant fires in several countries, including Sweden and Britain.
In Greece, blazes have consumed entire towns, locals said, and officials warned that the death toll would rise as emergency workers cleared burned homes and cars, in which some evacuees had become trapped.
“Unfortunately, at this stage, we do not expect to find more people injured, only more dead,” said Miltiades Milonas, vice president of the Greek ambulance service.
The president of the Hellenic Red Cross, Nikos Economopoulos, said that 26 of the dead had been found in a field near the seaside town of Mati, near Rafina. Some were locked in embrace, he told Greek state television.
“Mati doesn’t even exist as a settlement anymore,” a resident told Skai TV. “I saw corpses, burned-out cars. I feel lucky to be alive.”
Roads into Athens were choked by residents trying to flee, hampering rescuers’ efforts to reach the fires. Penned in by the flames, some looked to the sea to escape, hitching rides on passing fishing boats or resorting to makeshift rafts before the Coast Guard began an organized evacuation.
Escaping by sea, however, posed its own deadly challenge: The Coast Guard said it recovered the bodies of at least four evacuees.
Twelve Coast Guard vessels, aided by about 30 private boats, rescued 710 people who were trapped in Mati and nearby Kokkino Limanaki, and pulled dozens of others from the sea, according to the deputy shipping minister, Nektarios Santorinios. Some were housed at the Rafina municipal gymnasium, and others were bused to Athens.
Greek television channels aired the dramatic escape tales of survivors. The former leader of the country’s Communist Party, Aleka Papariga, who was vacationing in Mati, said she got out “just in time.” She said that the field where the blaze broke out was flanked by rocks and a precipice, limiting the avenues for escape.
On Monday, Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras cut short an official visit to Bosnia.
“It’s a difficult night for Greece,” Mr. Tsipras said. “We are dealing with something completely asymmetric.”
Wildfires are an annual occurrence in Greece, but a drought and a recent heat wave, with temperatures over 100 degrees Fahrenheit (38 degrees Celsius), have helped make this the country’s deadliest fire season in more than a decade. Sixty people were killed in a 2007 blaze that swept through the country’s Peloponnese region.
The fires have so far skirted Athens, leaving the city’s ancient ruins unscathed. A blaze could, however, be seen from the capital, bits of ash fell on the city, and a pall of smoke darkened the skies. Source
I think the main difference here is that while these forest fires are very bad, and worse than usual, mediterranean countries are used to forest fires happening every year. They can be bigger or smaller, but there will always be summer fires (and in fact, plants have adapted to a cycle of occasional fires). However, forest fires of any kind are very unusual in Sweden (or northern Europe in general).
Here's a historic comparison:
http://www.euronews.com/2018/07/20/this-chart-explains-how-unusual-sweden-s-wildfire-problem-is
|
On July 24 2018 02:38 Velr wrote:
But if you lose it hurts much more.
Btw: switzerland has party finance law worthy of a 3d world country, i don't see how bannon could make it worse.
Its also really arrogant for a tard like bannon to think he could do something here. Europe is still far away from electing a reality tv moron into any place of real power.
Our populists are usually rich as fuck and have real business credentials owning actual businesses with factories and shit...
Tell me about it. We have David Horowitz funneling donations to our alt-right larger than any of our political parties have seen. The biggest one was about as much as the Russians spent on Facebook ads.
By the way, everyone should read this and this document about NATO expansion.
Disband NATO. Start with Ramstein.
|
On July 24 2018 09:44 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2018 08:50 TheDwf wrote:On July 22 2018 04:51 TheDwf wrote:On July 20 2018 19:34 TheDwf wrote:+ Show Spoiler +After Macron privatized our football victory to have the privilege to scream a few irrelevant sentences with his horrible high-pitched voice to get images just in time for the TV news + Show Spoiler +, he is rewarded with another gift: a major State scandal. Macron aide Benalla in French probe for beating protesterFrench prosecutors are investigating a senior presidential aide who attacked protesters in Paris while wearing a police visor. Alexandre Benalla, an assistant to President Emmanuel Macron's chief of staff, was filmed targeting a woman and a man during May Day protests. He was caught on video by a student activist and left the scene once challenged on camera. He was identified from the video by French newspaper Le Monde. On Thursday, it emerged he was accompanied on the day by a reserve policeman and employee of Mr Macron's political party, Vincent Crase. France's Interior Minister Gerard Collomb said he had ordered an investigation by the country's national police inspectorate. "These two people had no legal right to intervene," he said. (...) https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44883583 I will try to sum up as clearly and quickly as possible. 1) During the 1/05 demonstrations, some demonstrators and left-wing militants are filming what they think is cop violence. So far business as usual, a cop is beating demonstrators for free while other cops watch and do nothing, yawn. The video is uploaded on the Internet. 2) Turns out that the perpetrator was not a cop. Two days ago (18/07), Le Monde revealed that this guy, named Alexandre Benalla, was in fact Macron's aide. 3) Le Monde revealed that the presidency was aware of his behaviour, and punished him two days after the event (3/05) by suspending him for... only two weeks. Now, why is this big, why is Macron's name involved and why this will splash badly. 1) Macron's aide (he basically seems to be his Mr. Security) was impersonating a cop and acting like one, whereas he should have just been there “as an observer”. He also had a talkie-walkie. 2) Only yesterday was a judicial inquiry opened, for “violences perpetrated by someone entrusted with a public mission,” “usurpation of functions” and “usurpation of signs reserved for the public authority”. 3) According to Le Monde, Macron was quickly aware of the events after they happened. 4) Benalla seems to be quite close to Macron; not only he was acting as some kind of bodyguard during his travels, but there are also numerous photos of them during Macron's leisure time: + Show Spoiler +All of this means that: 1) The presidency (and the Interior) tried to cover up the affair. As per our article 40 of the Penal code, they must seize the justice when they are confronted with those kinds of facts. They did not, hoping that the case would not be revealed. Bad luck, it seems that some journalists still do their job. This reveals the behavior of an arrogant caste who think they are above the law. 2) To extinguish the fire, the presidency's spokeperson, in an absolutely pathetic and panicked statement yesterday morning, was forced to revealed that a second guy working for l'Élysée had also committed similar violences and had been fired. But this means that there likely was a network of brutes of that kind. 3) Active complicities up to the high ranks of the police prefecture (it wasn't actually the first time that Benalla was here in demonstration with cops). Three high-ranked cops were suspended today for complicity. The passiveness of cops nearby while Benalla was beating up demonstrators also likely means that they had instructions not to intervene because he was some “VIP”. 4) Given that Benalla was in the bus of the victory when our national team returned, i.e. a place of privilege, he was clearly not pushed aside as he should have been. Since Benalla was not fired rightaway for a severe case AND was covered AND was still working for l'Élysée (only today, in the heat of the massive sh*tstorm, are they starting the procedure to fire him!), how valuable he is and what does he know to be protected like that? My personal guess is that they were running some kind of small parallel police for the presidency, as the right-wing mafiosos did in the 60's with the infamous SAC: gathering thugs to do shady stuff, for instance beating up left-wing activists and demonstrators in order to intimidate them. We will see. There is a political crisis dawning, all oppositions are blocking the Parliament (the Constitutional reform was being discussed, where King Macron intends to make our already Phantom Parliament even more useless) until the government comes and explains the events. So far they dodge, the majority is heavily embarrassed. The Interior minister possibly lied yesterday in front of the Senate, pretending that he didn't know while he apparently did. At the request of all oppositions, there will be a parliamentary committed of inquiry which will audition people on those events next week. In a public visit yesterday, Macron refused to answer the journalists' questions, feigning to not hear them and wearing a fake smile de façade. In any mature democracy the whole hierarchic chain involved in that case would have resigned. But in the French Banana Republic, nothing of that order is happening yet. As of today, Benalla is currently held in custory. A fourth count has been added, apparently he was complicit in hijacking surveillance images… Medias are talking non-stop about this for the last 40+ hours. Stay tuned for the collapse of the Macronie… :popcorn: TL;DR: one of Macron's aides, quite close to him, beat up a few persons while impersonating a cop in a demonstration more than 2 months ago. The presidency tried to cover up the case, which is now blowing right under their nose. Possible signs of a secret cell operating as some kind of private militia for Macron. + Show Spoiler +Update on the major scandal which is wrecking the Macronie: - In its pathetic press conference, the presidency's spokesperson had pretended that Macron's thug militiaman, Alexandre Benalla, had been punished in such a way that he no longer worked close to the president. That was a lie. He was still in charge in July, journalists had no troubles finding numerous photos of him next to the Macrons during their travels. Apparently he was even supposed to be in charge of the security of the Macrons during their holidays this summer! Talk about “the most severe sanction ever taken”! (Words from the spokesman about his 15 days suspension for assaulting freely two protestors while impersonating a cop… LOL) - The press revealed that from the 09/07 onwards, i.e. more than 2 months after his violent behaviour was known, he got a prestigious apartment in a district reserved to the president's close collaborators (his chief of staff, etc.; Mitterrand also had his hidden daughter there…). So clearly he was not at all punished. - Benalla was apparently earning 10 000€ per month—more than the highest ranked people in the police, and as much as a minister—with bonus up to 3 000€; he had a car with a chauffeur, and his car had some devices reserved to the police (special headlights). Insane list of privileges for someone who didn't even have a clear and official role… - Benalla and the other thug + Show Spoiler +who still works for the macronist party… 's detention were extended. Should have the first results tomorrow. Benalla's home was searched by investigators. - We learned today from the right-wing députés that Benalla had a H badge, something which gives him access to the hemicycle of the Assemblée. Not only he had zero business being here, since the President cannot enter the hemicycle, but the badge itself is quite a rare privilege (it's the highest level of access), only a few selected people from the presidency with a political role get it. No one understands why Benalla had this H badge. The right seems to think that this badge implies that he had political functions. Tomorrow we'll probably learn that he had the nuclear codes or something… lol - The parliamentary inquiry about this mess begins as soon as Monday morning, with the audition of the Interior minister who lied about not knowing the case. The majority did everything to slow and sabotage the process, they wanted the audiences to be secret but were forced to concede public ones given the uproar and the demands of the oppositions, etc. The different groups are clashing about who should be heard. The FI (left) wants Macron himself to come and give explanations but of course macronists will never allow it. - The Assemblée is blocked in a situation never seen before. It's like the opposition is on strike. Since the case was revealed, députés from the opposition are freezing the legislative work with endless rappels au règlement (points of order; literally, “remind the rules”) about the Benalla case. Living in their own world where there is apparently no scandal, the majority wanted to keep working on the constitutional reform (!) but had to concede this forced “pause” because of the political crisis. MPs debated the organization of the parliamentary inquiry, and those from the oppositions wanted ministers (the Prime and/or the Interior one) to come and give explanations. None came. The prime minister was at the Tour de France yesterday… - According to Mediapart, during the 1/05 events Benalla was giving orders to cops nearby… while he should have zero authority over them. This wasn't the first time according to some cops in the medias, Benalla was known as a “president's man” with special privileges. Cops trade unions are very mad at this affair by the way, since it shows corruption in their hierarchy + a complete hijacking of the police by some parallel cell at l'Élysée. - Macron is still silent, more than 72 hours after the case was revealed. Heard by investigators, his chief of staff confirmed that he was aware of the events (Benalla assaulting protestors the 01/05). According to the press, Macron personally agreed with the absolutely derisory sanction of a 15 days suspension. Hard to see how his personal responsibility is not involved. - The Benalla affair now has its Wikipedia page and is being talked overseas. The public parliamentary auditions will start Monday morning, so the massive sh*tstorm should continue the whole week. The press, even the macronist one, is heavily criticizing Macron about his attitude and silence. His own camp is stunned and dumbfounded. Some macronists are still in heavy denial and pretend that this is an individual problem or random nonsense like that. So far Macron is refusing to talk (he made it known yesterday that he would not talk about the case) but he won't be able to hold for long. Their crisis management has been nothing short of catastrophic. Stay tuned for further developments of this mini-Watergate. Drop Netflix and follow for free this French live show! Update—episode 3 of the State scandal: Alexandre Benalla, Macron's militiaman, has been charged for mob violence, interference in the exercise of a public function, publicly wearing reglemented signs without the right to do so, fencing of hijacking surveillance images, violation of professional secret. Vincent Crase, his sidekick, who was working for l'Élysée and still works for the macronist party, has been charged for mob violence, interference in the exercise of a public function and illegally wearing a weapon. The three cops who helped Benalla illegally get the surveillance images of his 01/05 violent show were charged for hijacking surveillance images and violation of the professional secret. Macron vaguely went out of his silence and said, through relatives, that Benalla's behaviour was "inacceptable" and that there would be "no impunity" (LOL). He asked his secretary general to solve the "internal dysfunctions in the presidency," so without surprises he will most likely play the "I didn't know" card (bullsh*t) and burn a few intermediaries. Live audition tomorrow morning (10:00) of the Minister of Interior under oath. Will be aired on a few TV channels. + Show Spoiler +Fourth episode—The Auditions.
[Monday] The first 3 auditions in l'Assemblée took place today (the ones in the Senate start tomorrow). The Minister of the Interior (Collomb), Paris' police prefect (Delpuech) and a high public servant of the police prefecture (Gibelin) were heard.
1) Collomb's audition can be summed up in three sentences:
- I didn't know
- Not in my knowledge
- See with the presidency's cabinet
When asked about why he didn't bring forward those facts to the justice, he replied that it was not his role and that he was confident that the presidency would handle it. He discarded his responsibility on his police prefect and on the presidency. He claimed that he didn't know Benalla (Macron's henchman). His answers were as imprecise as repetitive. He convinced no one, and députés from the opposition were mad at his vague no-answers and his repeated claims that “he didn't know”.
2) Delpuech, the police prefect, played the game and gave more precise and sincere answers. He contradicted the Interior minister on several points. He said that Benalla was known and seemed to imply that Collomb knew him. He said that the presidency notified him of Benalla's deeds on the 02/05.
At any rate, both Collomb and Delpuech point to the Élysée as “the ones who should have handled it”. Their answers exposed Macron rather than shield him.
3) Gibelin further weakened the version of the presidency. a) He claims that Benalla had no authorization to be there the 01/05, unlike what the Élysée said. b) Gibelin claims that Benalla was still there at meetings in the 04 to 19/05 period, when he should have been suspended (so Benalla's derisory sanction might not even have been effective!). The Élysée denied this right after the audition, but who to believe between liars who want to cover their ***** and a high public servant under oath?
Interestingly, the high administration is not at all willing to cover the executive and pay the price of its mistakes.
Macron was supposed to visit the Tour de France today but cancelled it. He still made no open and public statement. Some voices from within the majority are now demanding that he talks.
Tomorrow, Macron's chief of staff will be interrogated by députés. He retires this autumn so the temptation will be strong for the Macronie to scapegoat him and paint him as the culprit whose carelessness exposed Macron (the good Prince and the bad Counselor)… but this also means that he has nothing much to lose. So far everyone is throwing the hot potato of responsibility to others, we will see if he acts the same.
The Canard Enchaîné (a newspaper famous for digging up the dirty secrets of the Vth Republic) publishes its titles one day before its publication Wednesday, so perhaps new reveals ahead this Tuesday…
The constitutional reform (which is planning for even less powers to our phantom Parliament!) has been postponed to the rentrée, in September. Macron can bury his initial plan to call for a referendum if the right in the Senate refuses it (and they will 100% do so now); now it's dead, no one will ever vote it. His ability to pass reforms should be quite hindered by this sequence.
We learned today that Benalla had a secret defence accreditation, and had the keys of the Macrons' personal house. Clearly Macron trusted him with his life, and granted him insane privileges for reasons yet to be clearly known.
Lost in their parallel world of autosuggestion, some governmental sources apparently stated that “French people were not that much interested” in the Benalla-Macron affair and are banking on holidays so that we forget about all this mess. In reality, data shows that 1,5 millions of tweets were posted on this affair from the 18/07 evening to the 23/07 morning. That is enormous. During the audition this morning, aired live on 4 different TV channels, there were thousands of comments on the Facebook broadcasts. The affair is making the front page of every media. Probably every single French man or woman who vaguely follows the news has heard about it and the numerous rebounds. Macronists are totally deluded if they think that all of this will vanish. The consequences will be devastating.
Episode five. In which the executive vaguely wakes up.
Tense session of questions to the government today. All presidents from the opposition groups interrogated the Prime minister about the Benalla affair. The Prime minister said that there was an immediate reaction to Benalla's misbehaviour (the ridiculously inadequate 15 days suspension) and that “nothing had been hidden,” triggering an uproar in the hémicycle every time he repeated this lie. He deemed the sanctions… appropriate.
The right will initiate a motion of no-confidence.
3) Gibelin further weakened the version of the presidency. a) He claims that Benalla had no authorization to be there the 01/05, unlike what the Élysée said. b) Gibelin claims that Benalla was still there at meetings in the 04 to 19/05 period, when he should have been suspended (so Benalla's derisory sanction might not even have been effective!). The Élysée denied this right after the audition, but who to believe between liars who want to cover their ***** and a high public servant under oath?
About Benalla's presence in reunions between the 04/05 and the 19/05, Gibelin retracted today… summoning some misunderstanding while his previous answer to a crystal clear question (“was Benalla here?”), repeated two times in a religious silence, had been neat. Thing is, some other cops said that Benalla was present too in some meetings during the period in which he was supposed to be suspended. The oppositions suspected pressures on Gibelin.
In the senatorial auditions, cops said that Benalla's obnoxious behaviour was a source of tensions with the official services, and a trade unionist talked about a parallel hierarchy with private elements hijacking the police. Big big material if it's true.
Macron's chief of staff (Strzoda) was auditioned today in the Parliament. He first said that the President had “allowed” him to be here and that he was here by his will. No comment, what the President wants or not is irrelevant when a parliamentary commission summons someone. Strzoda said that he didn't warn the judiciary authorities because he had “not enough elements”. He was unable to justify it really, he went (deliberaly slowly to buy time, another audition was scheduled afterwards…) through convoluted and unconvincing answers to explain his non-denunciation. He was also unable to explain why Benalla got a prestigious flat after his sanctions. He said that he took the decision to suspend Benalla 15 days alone. In his last answer, about the under-sanction he said “if I had made a mistake, someone would have told me”. “Someone” here means Macron and Kohler, the general secretary of the presidency, since those are his only two superiors. They said nothing so they agreed, QED.
Macron talked this evening in front of his troops. He claimed full responsibility for the affair. He said: “What happened the 01/05 is grave, serious. And it has been for me a disappointment, a betrayal. No one [near me] is above the law. If they are looking for someone responsible, the only person responsible is me and me alone. I was the one who trusted Alexandre Benalla. I was the one who confirmed the sanction. It's not the Republic of fusibles [pawns who pay for the mistakes of their superiors] (…). If they want someone responsible, he's in front of you. Let them come for me. I answer to the French people.”
I suspect this is pure bragging and even provocation, since he has no intention to come before the parliamentary commission and he's actually irresponsible by status. All oppositions had warned about him discarding his responsibility on some lower pawn, so he took the opposing view… but obviously he won't punish himself, so beyond those words, what will he actually do? Twitter replied to his invite (“let them come for me”) with #AllonsChercherMacron (=GoFetchMacron).
Macron also bashed the press like the vulgar trumpist he is, claiming that medias had turned into a tribunal, blablabla.
The first poll about the Macron-Benalla affair was published:
+ Show Spoiler [Poll results] +Were you shocked by the Benalla affair?
Yes: 80% (very shocked: 49%)
No: 20%
No answer: less than 1%
The extremely low rate of no answers sweeps the majority's pathetic attempt at dismissing this case as “a Twitter bubble”.
“Shocked” depending on 2017 vote:
Mélenchon: 81%
Hamon: 91%
Macron: 71%
Fillon: 83%
Le Pen: 83%
No vote: 81%
The heart of Macron's electorate is affected, almost like others. Bad news for the majority.
Should Macron express himself in front of the people to talk about the Benalla affair?
Yes: 75%
No: 25%
The “yes” hits 64% among Macron's 2017 voters. Here too there seems to be a solid demand for explanations.
Would you say that the Benalla affair had an impact on Macron's image for you?
Negative impact: 73%
No impact: 23%
Positive impact: 4% (LOL)
Conclusion; there will be severe damages in the public opinion.
|
On July 25 2018 09:23 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2018 02:38 Velr wrote:
But if you lose it hurts much more.
Btw: switzerland has party finance law worthy of a 3d world country, i don't see how bannon could make it worse.
Its also really arrogant for a tard like bannon to think he could do something here. Europe is still far away from electing a reality tv moron into any place of real power.
Our populists are usually rich as fuck and have real business credentials owning actual businesses with factories and shit... Tell me about it. We have David Horowitz funneling donations to our alt-right larger than any of our political parties have seen. The biggest one was about as much as the Russians spent on Facebook ads. By the way, everyone should read this and this document about NATO expansion. Disband NATO. Start with Ramstein.
I don't know man. Ramstein isn't just another military base that you can negotiate away or close down. Its essentially the jewel in the crown of Americas foreign power. Its like if china wanted to "start" with Guam or iran wanted to "start" with Al udeid in Qatar
|
On July 24 2018 20:21 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2018 19:49 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:All I've heard about the wildfires in Europe is mostly in Sweden, Greece is just as bad if not worse. Almsot 50 dead ATHENS — Fast-moving wildfires near Athens have killed at least 49 people, officials said on Tuesday, and have forced thousands of tourists and residents to flee any way they could, with some even taking to rickety boats to escape.
Gale-force winds topping 50 miles an hour have fanned a pair of fires that tore through seaside areas popular with travelers, injuring at least 156 people and leaving a trail of charred resorts, burned-out cars and smoldering farms in their wake. Many evacuation routes were blocked, and people who did manage to escape by road had to drive through choking smoke, sometimes with walls of flame leaping through trees just yards away.
Greece’s emergency services were stretched to capacity, as more than 600 firefighters and 250 fire engines were deployed to the sites of the two largest fires, in and around Rafina, about 15 miles east of Athens, and Kineta, about 30 miles west of the capital. The country’s entire fleet of water-dropping aircraft was deployed on Monday, and officials called on their partners in the European Union for help.
Europe has sweltered through an unusually hot and dry summer, breaking temperature records and fueling significant fires in several countries, including Sweden and Britain.
In Greece, blazes have consumed entire towns, locals said, and officials warned that the death toll would rise as emergency workers cleared burned homes and cars, in which some evacuees had become trapped.
“Unfortunately, at this stage, we do not expect to find more people injured, only more dead,” said Miltiades Milonas, vice president of the Greek ambulance service.
The president of the Hellenic Red Cross, Nikos Economopoulos, said that 26 of the dead had been found in a field near the seaside town of Mati, near Rafina. Some were locked in embrace, he told Greek state television.
“Mati doesn’t even exist as a settlement anymore,” a resident told Skai TV. “I saw corpses, burned-out cars. I feel lucky to be alive.”
Roads into Athens were choked by residents trying to flee, hampering rescuers’ efforts to reach the fires. Penned in by the flames, some looked to the sea to escape, hitching rides on passing fishing boats or resorting to makeshift rafts before the Coast Guard began an organized evacuation.
Escaping by sea, however, posed its own deadly challenge: The Coast Guard said it recovered the bodies of at least four evacuees.
Twelve Coast Guard vessels, aided by about 30 private boats, rescued 710 people who were trapped in Mati and nearby Kokkino Limanaki, and pulled dozens of others from the sea, according to the deputy shipping minister, Nektarios Santorinios. Some were housed at the Rafina municipal gymnasium, and others were bused to Athens.
Greek television channels aired the dramatic escape tales of survivors. The former leader of the country’s Communist Party, Aleka Papariga, who was vacationing in Mati, said she got out “just in time.” She said that the field where the blaze broke out was flanked by rocks and a precipice, limiting the avenues for escape.
On Monday, Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras cut short an official visit to Bosnia.
“It’s a difficult night for Greece,” Mr. Tsipras said. “We are dealing with something completely asymmetric.”
Wildfires are an annual occurrence in Greece, but a drought and a recent heat wave, with temperatures over 100 degrees Fahrenheit (38 degrees Celsius), have helped make this the country’s deadliest fire season in more than a decade. Sixty people were killed in a 2007 blaze that swept through the country’s Peloponnese region.
The fires have so far skirted Athens, leaving the city’s ancient ruins unscathed. A blaze could, however, be seen from the capital, bits of ash fell on the city, and a pall of smoke darkened the skies. Source I think the main difference here is that while these forest fires are very bad, and worse than usual, mediterranean countries are used to forest fires happening every year. They can be bigger or smaller, but there will always be summer fires (and in fact, plants have adapted to a cycle of occasional fires). However, forest fires of any kind are very unusual in Sweden (or northern Europe in general). Here's a historic comparison: http://www.euronews.com/2018/07/20/this-chart-explains-how-unusual-sweden-s-wildfire-problem-is
I think there's also the issue of the different faunas. Portugal for instance has lots of wildfires but they're concentrated in the forest areas (which are often artificial and run for commercial use like eucalyptus used for the paper industry) - our natural landscape is generally more of a 'bushy' type. So while the fires are already barely manageable, our fauna is somewhat adapted to that reality. My vague knowledge of Scandinavian landscapes tells me that they're one giant forest. If the climate there changes significantly and it becomes a lot more arid in the summer with a propensity for forest fires, they might be mightily screwed, requiring a massive adaptation of the local fauna. So naturally it's a bigger news story. Disclaimer: I have no actual knowledge of forest fires, climate change or rural planning other than enduring a national conversation about forest fires every year.
|
A couple questions directed to Europeans in general (no specific country)
I see the term alt-right a lot. I'm curious what Europeans view as "alt-right".
Once President Trump removes a lot of the benefits that the United States is paying to European countries (tariffs, military funding, etc) and said European countries have to start supplying their own military's, how do you see this impacting your taxes and tax benefits? Is this even a concern?
As an example, Germany has agreed to finally pay their NATO bill, interest included. Do you think this will have a large impact in German taxes?
|
I view alt-right as libertarians strongly opposed to ideas usually described as socially progressive. They don't matter politically but the content they produce in the "memetic warfare" with the left is really helpful to standard-right.
Good luck defending your last two paragraphs.
|
On July 26 2018 05:15 basedFinn wrote:
A couple questions directed to Europeans in general (no specific country)
I see the term alt-right a lot. I'm curious what Europeans view as "alt-right".
The term "alt-right" doesn't really exist in Europe, the terms used are far-right or "populists" (or "radical right" sometimes).
|
On July 26 2018 05:35 Sent. wrote:
I view alt-right as libertarians strongly opposed to ideas usually described as socially progressive. They don't matter politically but the content they produce in the "memetic warfare" with the left is really helpful to standard-right.
Good luck defending your last two paragraphs.
What do you mean good luck defending my last two paragraphs? The President mentioned these scenarios as possibilities, and from what i've read, Germany has already agreed to settle their bill.
|
There is no NATO bill to pay and it won't have an impact on German taxes. And Europe already provides its own military.
|
On July 26 2018 05:54 basedFinn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2018 05:35 Sent. wrote:
I view alt-right as libertarians strongly opposed to ideas usually described as socially progressive. They don't matter politically but the content they produce in the "memetic warfare" with the left is really helpful to standard-right.
Good luck defending your last two paragraphs. What do you mean good luck defending my last two paragraphs? The President mentioned these scenarios as possibilities, and from what i've read, Germany has already agreed to settle their bill.
if you read that, the quality of your sources would be very poor. because Germany hasn't agreed to such a thing, and moreover, there isn't a bill to pay in the first place, so it doesn't even make sense.
Europe already provides for its own military needs, the US spending hasn't covered anything. The US just spends alot on its military for its own reasons, basically for domestic politics.
I'm not as clear on the tariff issues; but the tariffs are in general very low; and both sides have tariffs. It's not one side getting taken advantage of in any way by the tariffs.
by "good luck" the person was referring to the notion that your last two paragraphs are not accurate and involve statements that do not hold up to scrutiny. i.e. they're untrue (at least in part). and that many people making such mistakes have been addressed in the past, and the statements shown to be wrong.
|
That is a rare sight nowadays. Seeing the US rally to defend the euros.
Alt right to me personally is an attempt at distancing oneself from fascist or at least totalitarian (?) tendencies, or rather camouflaging dehumanising ideology as a chance to break with the status quo. Which is ridiculous but effective. Very sad indeed.
Much akin to alternative facts the alt right creates a world where they are the saviours, although they're nothing but demagogues with an agenda dictated by their personal gain and not anything resembling a sustainable development.
|
Contrary to what dominates the mediascape these days, plenty of US folks are ready and willing to defend you euros 
|
|
|
On July 26 2018 05:54 basedFinn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2018 05:35 Sent. wrote:
I view alt-right as libertarians strongly opposed to ideas usually described as socially progressive. They don't matter politically but the content they produce in the "memetic warfare" with the left is really helpful to standard-right.
Good luck defending your last two paragraphs. What do you mean good luck defending my last two paragraphs? The President mentioned these scenarios as possibilities, and from what i've read, Germany has already agreed to settle their bill.
Like people already explained, what you claim to be the case is not the case.
In particular, I saw a poll the other day asking (among germans) whether people would be more afraid without US "protection" and the overwhelming answer was no.
So really I don't see us spending more than what we agreed on years ago any time soon.
Don't have the article on hand atm because phone typing
|
On July 26 2018 10:26 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2018 05:54 basedFinn wrote:On July 26 2018 05:35 Sent. wrote:
I view alt-right as libertarians strongly opposed to ideas usually described as socially progressive. They don't matter politically but the content they produce in the "memetic warfare" with the left is really helpful to standard-right.
Good luck defending your last two paragraphs. What do you mean good luck defending my last two paragraphs? The President mentioned these scenarios as possibilities, and from what i've read, Germany has already agreed to settle their bill. Like people already explained, what you claim to be the case is not the case. In particular, I saw a poll the other day asking (among germans) whether people would be more afraid without US "protection" and the overwhelming answer was no. So really I don't see us spending more than what we agreed on years ago any time soon. Don't have the article on hand atm because phone typing
One might add that the German interpretation of the 2% agreement is "to work TOWARDS 2% until 2025". It is not, and that has been made clear multiple times, to reach 2% gdp defense spending.
|
On July 26 2018 05:15 basedFinn wrote:As an example, Germany has agreed to finally pay their NATO bill, interest included. Do you think this will have a large impact in German taxes?
There is no bill (NATO's costs are covered by all members) and I'm quite sure our government has no real interest in doubling our spending on the military. So I'd say a marginal effect, if at all.
Since your post reads like you have been misinformed a tad (which is not your fault btw), I would suggest you reading/watching European sources as well as American ones. It broadens perspective and who knows, you might become president one day and then it sure is handy to know something about - for example - Montenegro 
https://www.lemonde.fr/le-monde-in-english/ (France)
http://www.spiegel.de/international/ (Germany)
https://elpais.com/elpais/inenglish.html (Spain)
|
On July 26 2018 06:33 farvacola wrote:Contrary to what dominates the mediascape these days, plenty of US folks are ready and willing to defend you euros
That, and Zlefin leads the charge, the one man on the internet for whom 'SOMEONE IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET!!!!!' is absolutely a rallying cry. Correcting inaccuracies is his purpose.
|
Late to the conversation but I'd add that nobody in Portugal talks about raising military spending (1.3% of GDP currently). It's a complete non-issue and it simply won't happen. I do think we should build up our armed forces and invade Morocco to avenge the death of Sebastian, but I think I'm pretty much alone in this.
There's also no such thing as alt-right here. The populist right here is kind of restricted to taxi drivers and their political battle is against Uber drivers, not immigrants.
|
On July 28 2018 19:39 warding wrote:Late to the conversation but I'd add that nobody in Portugal talks about raising military spending (1.3% of GDP currently). It's a complete non-issue and it simply won't happen. I do think we should build up our armed forces and invade Morocco to avenge the death of Sebastian, but I think I'm pretty much alone in this. There's also no such thing as alt-right here. The populist right here is kind of restricted to taxi drivers and their political battle is against Uber drivers, not immigrants.
I think it's a bigger talking point in the US than elsewhere because... well... the US keeps getting into wars. The US has been the world's policeman for a good while, but just because it decides to stop doesn't mean someone else will fill the void.
There's no major talk of increasing defense spending in the UK either. At least not in a major way. Labour wants to cut it, the Tories want to increase it a bit. Same as always.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dihf3f2X0AE5RiM.jpg )
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dihf25RXsAAao4h.jpg )
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Difm9ukX4AAKByj.jpg)
