EPTEuropean Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 1129
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22308 Posts
On June 16 2018 23:10 TheDwf wrote: Sticking your head into the sand and hoping it all works out doesn't feel like a good thing for a government trying to take care of its citizens in an ever changing world.The right doesn't need to have any ideas, plans or visions; they're conservative, by definition the inertia of current realities is enough for them | ||
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Sent.
Poland9297 Posts
On June 16 2018 23:02 Archeon wrote: I'm fairly sure that the thing that brings Merkel down is the general census that current center parties don't have any solutions, vision or plans to begin with. So the national vision become stronger in the middle right, since that was the only vision/nightmare the conservatives ever had, while the middle left more or less live in their utopia of fairly social capitalism and while it's fairly pleasant, it doesn't help them win elections. It makes the EU look weak and Merkel has for many years inwards and outwards been the figurehead of the EU. The fact alone that's been decided weakens all those ppl who promote unity and say that "there is no other way". The more the EU struggles the less useful it seems for Germany and the stronger the people claiming that all the financially problematic countries drag Germany down become. Do you really think there are people in Germany who think "I'm not going to support Merkel anymore because Britain chose to leave the EU during her term as chancellor. She failed to satisfy David Cameron's demands which makes her a bad leader, unfit to govern my country". I get (but don't share) the idea that some failures of the union as a whole can afffect Merkel's popularity at home, however in this case I just don't see how the UK shouting "FREEEEDOM" and running out of the room makes Merkel look bad. | ||
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Archeon
3265 Posts
On June 16 2018 23:10 TheDwf wrote: The right doesn't need to have any ideas, plans or visions; they're conservative, by definition the inertia of current realities is enough for them Yes and no. The "it was better before"-conservative-logic only works if there is a rough imagination of before that is shared and if people are fairly happy with how it is atm. But Merkel's vision is slightly progressive and especially old people feel alienated by immigration, globalization and technical progress, so they definitely need some feel-good vision of what they want to conserve. Especially the CSU tries to establish that with force. On June 16 2018 23:22 Sent. wrote: Do you really think there are people in Germany who think "I'm not going to support Merkel anymore because Britain chose to leave the EU during her term as chancellor. She failed to satisfy David Cameron's demands which makes her a bad leader, unfit to govern my country". I get (but don't share) the idea that some failures of the union as a whole can afffect Merkel's popularity at home, however in this case I just don't see how the UK shouting "FREEEEDOM" and running out of the room makes Merkel look bad. I think many people didn't like the EU to begin with and might have given it a chance if it had some resemblance of nationality or unity, values that are important for conservatives. But the more the EU shatters, the less they believe that it's advantageous. | ||
TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On June 16 2018 23:22 Sent. wrote: Do you really think there are people in Germany who think "I'm not going to support Merkel anymore because Britain chose to leave the EU during her term as chancellor. She failed to satisfy David Cameron's demands which makes her a bad leader, unfit to govern my country". I get (but don't share) the idea that some failures of the union as a whole can afffect Merkel's popularity at home, however in this case I just don't see how the UK shouting "FREEEEDOM" and running out of the room makes Merkel look bad. Exactly. Beeing hard on the Brexit is probably one of the EU's and hers more positive decisions over the last years here. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On June 16 2018 23:22 Sent. wrote: Do you really think there are people in Germany who think "I'm not going to support Merkel anymore because Britain chose to leave the EU during her term as chancellor. She failed to satisfy David Cameron's demands which makes her a bad leader, unfit to govern my country". I get (but don't share) the idea that some failures of the union as a whole can afffect Merkel's popularity at home, however in this case I just don't see how the UK shouting "FREEEEDOM" and running out of the room makes Merkel look bad. I'll have you know we were shouting 'SOVEREIGNTYYYYYYYY!'. God I've come to hate that word. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On June 16 2018 15:07 corumjhaelen wrote: I'd venture France has better fascist writers than Raspail. I mean the premise seems as subtle as Atlas Shrugged. Like who though? | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On June 16 2018 23:10 TheDwf wrote: The right doesn't need to have any ideas, plans or visions; they're conservative, by definition the inertia of current realities is enough for them You can accuse Merkel of a lot of things but hardly that she hasn't changed anything lol. She has completely revamped Conservatism in German politics. Under her the CDU has probably gone through the biggest modernisation process in postwar Germany. She is comparable to Thatcher in that regard. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Merkel's style tends towards centrism, she just stands between her party'a conservatives and whatever her coalition partner is, which is why other parties don't like to form a coalition with her. She tends to swallow her partners and their centrist voters, while her conservative base won't ever change sides regardless what the other parties do (see Schröder, which should have been a liberal-conservative Jesus drawing in centrist voters but only destroyed the SPD voter base). On the topic of German surveillance in Austria, the declaration was very German-friendly. Basically "this is superserious, but we Germany has already changed their laws since then so it's all going to be good". Pretty disappointing. | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
Céline (this could get awkward really fast) and Rebatet come to mind. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On June 17 2018 01:45 corumjhaelen wrote: Céline (this could get awkward really fast) and Rebatet come to mind. But to be truly populist you have to write at a common denominator. Isn't that what Raspail does? He wrote as if to be published in Minute. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On June 17 2018 01:34 Big J wrote: There are various conservative definitions around, one of them is centrism, another one the conservative/reactionary and the third one is "to go with the flow" progressivism. (All of them anti-liberal, useless bullshit for obvious reasons, but since it is always just small steps people don't see it until they wake up in full surveillance oligarchic fascism) Merkel's style tends towards centrism, she just stands between her party'a conservatives and whatever her coalition partner is, which is why other parties don't like to form a coalition with her. She tends to swallow her partners and their centrist voters, while her conservative base won't ever change sides regardless what the other parties do (see Schröder, which should have been a liberal-conservative Jesus drawing in centrist voters but only destroyed the SPD voter base). On the topic of German surveillance in Austria, the declaration was very German-friendly. Basically "this is superserious, but we Germany has already changed their laws since then so it's all going to be good". Pretty disappointing. How does she manage to do that though? Is she an exceptional talker or something? She's never struck me as especially charismatic, she more comes across as solid and immovable. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
The SPD never recovered from Schröder | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
She's the 'anti-Obama' in many respects. She has no charisma but she knows how to consolidate political capital. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On June 17 2018 04:04 Nyxisto wrote: She has a really good sense for political power and doesn't care too much about short-term mood swings, or at least knows when switching positions is worthwhile and when not. She also has a pretty large history of systematically eliminating political opponents that could become dangerous. I really like this (pretty long) New Yorker biography about her. She's the 'anti-Obama' in many respects. She has no charisma but she knows how to consolidate political capital. That's a good article. I didn't know Germany and Russia had such a complicated - and tight - relationship. But it makes perfect sense. | ||
zatic
Zurich15365 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
Italy bars two more refugee ships from ports Matteo Salvini says Lifeline and Seefuchs ships will have to land migrants elsewhere Italy’s interior minister has sparked a new migration crisis in the Mediterranean by barring two rescue boats from bringing refugees to shore, a week after the Aquarius was prevented from docking. “Two other ships with the flag of Netherlands, Lifeline and Seefuchs, have arrived off the coast of Libya, waiting for their load of human beings abandoned by the smugglers,” Matteo Salvini, the leader of the anti-immigrant party the League, wrote on his Facebook page. “These gentlemen know that Italy no longer wants to be complicit in the business of illegal immigration, and therefore will have to look for other ports [not Italian] where to go.” (...) https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/16/italy-bars-two-more-refugee-ships-from-ports | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18283 Posts
On June 17 2018 18:40 TheDwf wrote: It goes on. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/16/italy-bars-two-more-refugee-ships-from-ports Hm. If these are Dutch ships, this could spark another little fight in the EU. No clue how maritime borders are organized, but I suspect the Dutch government won't be very happy about Italy barring Dutch ships from entering their ports. The current Dutch government is center right, and while I'd expect the VVD (majority partner in the coalition) doesn't really give a shit what Italy does at its borders, the D66 and CDA should, ideologically, be opposed to Italy stopping migrant ships. And D66 should definitely be opposed to Italy doing anything to block EU open border policies (and so should the VVD, but they foresook their liberal principles ages ago). | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
 What are they going to do next? Build a wall in every neighbourhood? Yes, people will feel safer but do you really want to live in a society which builds walls and has security checks all the time? This is just fear and there has to be a better solution. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On June 17 2018 21:06 sc-darkness wrote: France is building wall around the Eiffel Tower to protect people from terrorist attacks. It seems to me that fear got the best of them. Treating symptoms rather the root cause isn't a solution. What are they going to do next? Build a wall in every neighbourhood? Yes, people will feel safer but do you really want to live in a society which builds walls and has security checks all the time? This is just fear and there has to be a better solution.Regrettably, quite a few people do right now. | ||
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