|
Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On June 11 2018 05:19 sc-darkness wrote:
Is Macron's approval rating going up just for standing up to Trump?
Stable overall in last week's poll at ~40% approval (before G7 conclusions).
His current rating is mainly drivent by local reforms, which degrade his rating with the left wing (as you can tell from TheDwf's posts) and improve his rating with the right.
We'll see in this week's if it has an impact. Should be positive, although I expect results of the coming football world cup to have more influence.
|
629 migrants stranded after Italy's populists refuse to let rescue ship dock
(CNN) — A ship carrying more than 600 rescued migrants, including 123 unaccompanied minors and seven pregnant women, is stranded in the Mediterranean Sea after Italy's new populist government refused permission for it to dock.
Matteo Salvini, the interior minister and leader of the anti-immigration League party, declared Sunday on Facebook that Italy was saying "no" to human trafficking.
The ship, Aquarius, is operated by Doctors Without Borders (MSF) and the SOS Mediterranee organizations.
Aquarius rescued 629 people Saturday night into Sunday morning -- taking on people from two rubber vessels as well as "Italian navy ships, Italian coast guard ships and merchant vessels" in six different operations, MSF and SOS said on Twitter.
The organizations said the boat was located 35 nautical miles from Italy and 27 nautical miles from Malta.
The Italian Maritime Rescue Coordination Center told Aquarius Sunday to "standby in [their] current position," MSF tweeted.
In his Facebook post on Sunday, Salvini argued that Italy was far from the only European country to adopt an unwelcoming stance on migrants.
"In the Mediterranean Sea, there are boats carrying Dutch, Spanish, Gibraltar and British flags. There are NGO's from Spain and Germany, meanwhile there is also Malta that does not welcome anyone," he wrote.
"There is France too, that refuses and pushes back at their border. There is Spain that protects their own borders with weapons, well, that means all of Europe is minding its own private interest."
"Starting today Italy will commence to say NO to human trafficking, NO to the business of clandestine immigration."
"My objective is to guarantee a peaceful life to all these people in Africa and to our children in Italy."
(...)
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/11/europe/msf-migrant-boat-italy-malta/index.html?no-st=1528713127
"Close the ports"
No doubt that the legendary "European solidarity" and its deep humanism will soon kick in...
|
that picture is scary
as scary as our current government is
|
The Italians have been asking help for years. It was bound to happen at some point.
|
Naturally, all of this conveniently comes to distract from the planned betrayal that the Minister of Economics announced. Chosen extracts:
Several representatives of the government majority say: "We do not want to leave the euro". But this does not rule it out in case the market leads there. Are you determined to guarantee Italy's future in the euro area?
« The position of the government is clear and unanimous. There is no discussion about leaving the euro. The government is determined to prevent any emergence of market conditions that would lead to leaving the euro. It’s not just that we don’t want to leave it: we will act in such a way that conditions that could call into question our presence in the euro area don’t start to emerge. As Economy minister, I have the responsibility to guarantee, on a government mandate, that these conditions do not take place. The statements of the Prime Minister are along these lines and the government as a whole is responsible to the country ».
The EU’s Ageing Report shows that the sustainability of the pension system in Italy has worsened. Is it really appropriate to dismantle parts of the Fornero reform?
«I know that report and I’m aware of the need to ensure the long-term sustainability of public finance. The pension system legislation requires not only a look at the short term, but also at the medium and especially the long term. I think our pension legislation can be improved, but it will be done with attention to sustainability. Including the long-term one. We will study improvements, knowing that we can’t improvise on these matters».
But there are already many announced commitments: 12 billion euros to cancel the VAT increase, 2 for employment centers, 5 for pensions, then there is the launch of the so-called "flat tax". Where will the 2019 deficit come in? Within 2% of GDP, within 3%?
«The government has just taken office, so it would not be serious to indicate numbers before an overall review. The new budget will be presented with the Def (Documento di economia e finanza) update in September. But the budget will be fully consistent with the goal of continuing on the road of reducing the debt/GDP ratio. It is an explicit objective of the government, about which there have been clear statements from the President of the Council. There must be no doubts. In any case, the preparation of the note will follow a continuous dialogue with the EU Commission, of course. As is always the case".
[Other questions]
(...) within the goal of reducing debt and deficit, the budget law will reflect basic choices on how and when to implement the program». (...) «We need to draw attention to the overall logic behind our plan. The goal is growth and employment. But we are not aiming to re-launch growth through deficit spending. We have a program focusing on structural reforms and we want it to also act on the supply side, creating more favorable conditions for investment and employment.
Is the goal confirmed to decrease debt in 2018 and 2019?
«I confirm this is the goal. For this year everything has already been defined and I will oversee it to ensure that nothing changes. The 2019 goal is to go on. Evidently, how we will meet that commitment will depend on the new economy estimates».
https://www.corriere.it/economia/18_giugno_10/tria-government-commitment-to-the-euro-and-the-debt-will-fallitalian-version-db9a3544-6caf-11e8-8fe1-92e098249b61.shtml?refresh_ce-cp
I can't wait the September budget, something tells me that voters will have some surprises...
|
You know I would think the same, that there's some kind of coordination between actions who catch the attention of the public and more subtle moves like this one (or rather than subtle, moves that go against the advertised program) -- but honestly I don't think Lega and M5S are capable of such coordination... it's just all random stuff from now on, something more terrifying (every time Salvini opens his mouth) something more naive..
|
On June 11 2018 22:26 VHbb wrote:
You know I would think the same, that there's some kind of coordination between actions who catch the attention of the public and more subtle moves like this one (or rather than subtle, moves that go against the advertised program) -- but honestly I don't think Lega and M5S are capable of such coordination... it's just all random stuff from now on, something more terrifying (every time Salvini opens his mouth) something more naive..
People in office don't need to coordinate that. They are approached by the various leaders of economic interest groups, banks, private and public think tanks etc.
Firms and other interest groups don't budget billions for lobbying for nothing.
|
On June 11 2018 22:26 VHbb wrote:
You know I would think the same, that there's some kind of coordination between actions who catch the attention of the public and more subtle moves like this one (or rather than subtle, moves that go against the advertised program) -- but honestly I don't think Lega and M5S are capable of such coordination... it's just all random stuff from now on, something more terrifying (every time Salvini opens his mouth) something more naive..
Oh it was probably a coincidence here... Weren't there local elections though in your country yesterday?
But if they bin their social/fiscal promises, obviously they will try to appear tough on the other aspect (immigration) to compensate. The good stuff with anti-immigration stances is that they cost literally nothing.
In other news, apparently Spain will allow the Aquarius to dock in Valencia, summoning humanitarian reasons and the respect of the international right (source in Spanish).
|
On June 10 2018 15:24 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2018 02:49 iamthedave wrote:On June 09 2018 21:44 xM(Z wrote:1. Populism in Europe it's official, were shitting bricks!. As well we should. A lot of populist candidates in the EU and Britain are throwbacks to our worst instincts, even outright fascism in some cases. That's damn scary. For local news, populism is the precise reason Brexit became a thing when it did. It's really a major issue. populism as per its definition is a great concept; if you, the elite, are using it as a pejorative then that's your problem. you should not be scared of populism here but of the stupidity that drives it and in this case, that is your doing. Ex: "... even outright fascism in some cases." were those people always fascists? Y/N. - if they weren't but are now, then someone/something made them fascists so if you were 'in charge' when they turned fascists then it's on you. then the conclusion is simple: fix yourself and the fascism will disappear as quickly as it appeared since you can't fix fascism while at the same time causing it.
I'm really not the elite. I'm at best lower middle class, just comparatively well-educated.
And the rest of your post is kind of rambling nonsense. If a fascist populist turns up it's not the fault of the non-fascists that they do. That they win support by promising impossible things and people listen, that's not the fault of non-fascists either.
The EU has a seed or two of fascism that goes back to certain memorable historical incidents. It's hardly a surprise that it rears its ugly head now and again.
|
It appears that Spain took the migrant ship:
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/11/618849580/italy-and-malta-close-their-ports-to-migrant-rescue-ship-spain-takes-it-in
A rescue ship carrying more than 600 migrants will be allowed to enter the Spanish port of Valencia, after it was turned away from ports in Italy and Malta.
The ship Aquarius rescued 629 people in the Mediterranean Sea on Saturday, "including 123 unaccompanied minors, 11 other children and seven pregnant women," Reuters reports.
The ship was left stranded at sea over the weekend after it was denied access to the Italian and Maltese ports.
Italy, which has a new, anti-immigration government, suggested that Malta take in the migrants. Malta objected, saying that it had been Italian authorities who coordinated the rescue to begin with, The Associated Press writes.
Aid workers aboard said that food would run out by the end of the day on Monday, The Associated Press reports, and they reported injuries ranging from burns to hypothermia.
The U.N. refugee agency said Monday that there was "an urgent humanitarian imperative" to act, calling on governments to accept the distressed migrants now and resolve "broader issues" later.
Spain answered the call, opening the port of Valencia to the vessel, Lucia Benavides reports for NPR from Barcelona. But AP notes that "it wasn't immediately clear if such a voyage was feasible given the distances involved — the ship is now more than 1,400 kilometers (over 750 nautical miles) from Valencia."
Lets hope the ship can make it that far, because its sounds like it is in rough shape.
|
Do you hear that? The deafening silence of France, which has ports too—and closer—but did not even offer help.
|
On June 12 2018 02:57 Plansix wrote:It appears that Spain took the migrant ship: https://www.npr.org/2018/06/11/618849580/italy-and-malta-close-their-ports-to-migrant-rescue-ship-spain-takes-it-inShow nested quote +A rescue ship carrying more than 600 migrants will be allowed to enter the Spanish port of Valencia, after it was turned away from ports in Italy and Malta.
The ship Aquarius rescued 629 people in the Mediterranean Sea on Saturday, "including 123 unaccompanied minors, 11 other children and seven pregnant women," Reuters reports.
The ship was left stranded at sea over the weekend after it was denied access to the Italian and Maltese ports.
Italy, which has a new, anti-immigration government, suggested that Malta take in the migrants. Malta objected, saying that it had been Italian authorities who coordinated the rescue to begin with, The Associated Press writes.
Aid workers aboard said that food would run out by the end of the day on Monday, The Associated Press reports, and they reported injuries ranging from burns to hypothermia.
The U.N. refugee agency said Monday that there was "an urgent humanitarian imperative" to act, calling on governments to accept the distressed migrants now and resolve "broader issues" later.
Spain answered the call, opening the port of Valencia to the vessel, Lucia Benavides reports for NPR from Barcelona. But AP notes that "it wasn't immediately clear if such a voyage was feasible given the distances involved — the ship is now more than 1,400 kilometers (over 750 nautical miles) from Valencia." Lets hope the ship can make it that far, because its sounds like it is in rough shape.
It will. Italy sent food and is taking care of pregnant women on board. We simply sent a signal - we will no longer be the doormat of Europe.
|
On June 12 2018 03:31 TheDwf wrote:
Do you hear that? The deafening silence of France, which has ports too—and closer—but did not even offer help.
Not only France - Slovenia, Croatia, Malta, Cyprus, Greece, Tunisia are all closer. But hey, we're the racists right?
|
On June 12 2018 03:31 TheDwf wrote:
Do you hear that? The deafening silence of France, which has ports too—and closer—but did not even offer help.
Nor should they have. Seems France made the sensible choice of quietly standing aside and not dirtying its hands with this matter.
|
On June 12 2018 03:46 SoSexy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2018 03:31 TheDwf wrote:
Do you hear that? The deafening silence of France, which has ports too—and closer—but did not even offer help. Not only France - Slovenia, Croatia, Malta, Cyprus, Greece, Tunisia are all closer. But hey, we're the racists right?
With a lot of company. We got our own brand here in the US too, cheering on separating migrant parents from their children and throwing them both in different camps hundreds of miles apart.
|
On June 12 2018 03:49 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2018 03:31 TheDwf wrote:
Do you hear that? The deafening silence of France, which has ports too—and closer—but did not even offer help. Nor should they have. Seems France made the sensible choice of quietly standing aside and not dirtying its hands with this matter.
Yes, why would Macron show solidarity with concrete acts when he claims that {generic Europe blablabla}. Better do nothing so that everyone realizes that all of this is simply empty words.
|
This all matter is just sickening. It appears clearly as an act of propaganda for the current local elections, but I'm lost for words seeing people justifying and supporting these acts.
It's just disgusting, it goes to show how successful the propaganda is when 'victory' is leaving a ship at sea rather than helping other people.
The absurd fact is that this is seen as an act of 'strength', we now 'will no longer be the doormat of Europe', and you see Salvini posing in this photos like a hero... sickening, really it hurts my stomach.
|
Well, the matter may not be resolved after all. If that's the case Macron has a second opportunity to disappoint.
@SoSexy: the problem with your way of thinking is that, when generalized, it precisely gives that kind of situation. There is no solidarity because almost everyone is for closure, even if it solves nothing. But if no one wants to show hospitality, no one can help the countries who need it under those dumb Dublin regulations. And thus your country gets disadvantaged because your ideas... are dominant.
|
Can Spain just send buses and the refugee/migrants wait at the dock? Or Spain could send a bunch boats to get them while they wait on the dry dock where they can't die due to drowning? Like literally anything other than waiting for the less than sea worthy ship to sink would be fine.
|
On June 12 2018 06:56 Plansix wrote:
Can Spain just send buses and the refugee/migrants wait at the dock? Or Spain could send a bunch boats to get them while they wait on the dry dock where they can't die due to drowning? Like literally anything other than waiting for the less than sea worthy ship to sink would be fine.
Spain is too far, as you can see on the map. From what I read they're only 35 miles away from Italy.
Translation of the second tweet (from the organization running the boat) is: "The priority must be the safety of the survivors. It's Italian maritime authorities' responsibility to find a quick and safe solution for the 629 persons aboard."
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
