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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
By the way, the themes of the annual brainstorming (ongoing) of the euro-atlantic ruling classes:
TURIN, 5 JUNE 2018 –The 66th Bilderberg Meeting is set to take place from 7 - 10 June 2018 in Turin, Italy. As of today, 131 participants from 23 countries have confirmed their attendance. As ever, a diverse group of political leaders and experts from industry, finance, academia and the media has been invited. The list of participants is available on www.bilderbergmeetings.org. The key topics for discussion this year include: 1. Populism in Europe 2. The inequality challenge 3. The future of work 4. Artificial intelligence 5. The US before midterms 6. Free trade 7. US world leadership 8. Russia 9. Quantum computing 10. Saudi Arabia and Iran 11. The “post-truth” world 12. Current events Founded in 1954, the Bilderberg Meeting is an annual conference designed to foster dialogue between Europe and North America. Every year, between 120-140 political leaders and experts from industry, finance, academia and the media are invited to take part in the conference. About two thirds of the participants come from Europe and the rest from North America; approximately a quarter from politics and government and the rest from other fields. http://www.bilderbergmeetings.org/meeting_2018.html
List of participants:
http://www.bilderbergmeetings.org/participants2018.html
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1. Populism in Europe it's official, were shitting bricks!.
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On June 09 2018 21:44 xM(Z wrote:it's official, were shitting bricks!.
As well we should. A lot of populist candidates in the EU and Britain are throwbacks to our worst instincts, even outright fascism in some cases. That's damn scary.
For local news, populism is the precise reason Brexit became a thing when it did.
It's really a major issue.
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On June 09 2018 18:10 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2018 11:08 LegalLord wrote:
Should care? Certainly. Would care? Far less likely. The economic reasons for the decline of their local industries are largely beyond their understanding, and the issues are far more deep-seated than localized problems like this supply shock or that scuffle in the political arena.
Not to mention that politically targeted trade restrictions directed towards those regions, if they do have that effect, will lend themselves excellently to a “I will fight and defeat these dangerous countries” narrative that provides a convenient explanation for the decline. Attempting to defeat Trump with politically targeted retaliation towards his base definitely won’t have the kind of effect you hope for. Except that it'll turn the Republican Party against him out of fear of losing re-election in their states due to a tanking economy, one of the most important indicators of someone on a losing campaign. Doesn't matter how deluded the base gets; the senators are going to feel the sting eventually, and they're the ones who'll pressure Trump to stop things. There's no realistic scenario where the US 'wins' this trade war.
Not according to trump "there is no way we can lose"
I don't see how trump is wrong with this,the usa market is more important for everyone outside the usa then the forgeign market is for the usa. Everyone will lose but the usa stands to lose the least.
Trump in a way has won already,he could get at least some concessions now if he would back off. I doubt he will back of already but I honestly doubt this "trade war" will become something big. They will get some deal or agreement within 1 year.
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On June 10 2018 02:49 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2018 21:44 xM(Z wrote:1. Populism in Europe it's official, were shitting bricks!. As well we should. A lot of populist candidates in the EU and Britain are throwbacks to our worst instincts, even outright fascism in some cases. That's damn scary. For local news, populism is the precise reason Brexit became a thing when it did. It's really a major issue. populism as per its definition is a great concept; if you, the elite, are using it as a pejorative then that's your problem.
you should not be scared of populism here but of the stupidity that drives it and in this case, that is your doing.
Ex: "... even outright fascism in some cases." were those people always fascists? Y/N.
- if they weren't but are now, then someone/something made them fascists so if you were 'in charge' when they turned fascists then it's on you.
then the conclusion is simple: fix yourself and the fascism will disappear as quickly as it appeared since you can't fix fascism while at the same time causing it.
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On June 10 2018 13:41 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2018 18:10 iamthedave wrote:On June 09 2018 11:08 LegalLord wrote:
Should care? Certainly. Would care? Far less likely. The economic reasons for the decline of their local industries are largely beyond their understanding, and the issues are far more deep-seated than localized problems like this supply shock or that scuffle in the political arena.
Not to mention that politically targeted trade restrictions directed towards those regions, if they do have that effect, will lend themselves excellently to a “I will fight and defeat these dangerous countries” narrative that provides a convenient explanation for the decline. Attempting to defeat Trump with politically targeted retaliation towards his base definitely won’t have the kind of effect you hope for. Except that it'll turn the Republican Party against him out of fear of losing re-election in their states due to a tanking economy, one of the most important indicators of someone on a losing campaign. Doesn't matter how deluded the base gets; the senators are going to feel the sting eventually, and they're the ones who'll pressure Trump to stop things. There's no realistic scenario where the US 'wins' this trade war. Not according to trump "there is no way we can lose" I don't see how trump is wrong with this,the usa market is more important for everyone outside the usa then the forgeign market is for the usa. Everyone will lose but the usa stands to lose the least. Trump in a way has won already,he could get at least some concessions now if he would back off. I doubt he will back of already but I honestly doubt this "trade war" will become something big. They will get some deal or agreement within 1 year.
You are right, America can't actually lose a trade war. Look at what it did to China, they basically capitulated because their telecoms industry was completely reliant on American technology. The same will happen everywhere, the only solution is to develop domestic replacements for everything that the US is good at.
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I guess this was sarcasm?
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It's a disgrace that our "leaders" even wanted to sign a joint statement with Trump considering everything he's done. Weak cowards incapable of standing up together to this horrible nationalist
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On June 10 2018 18:51 TheDwf wrote:
It's a disgrace that our "leaders" even wanted to sign a joint statement with Trump considering everything he's done. Weak cowards incapable of standing up together to this horrible nationalist
We can't be for integration (for good reasons) and then not try to integrate someone with obvious mental problems, just because they are in an important position.
There is obviously some truth to cutting the cost on integration with certain individuals when it simply doesn't work though.
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On June 10 2018 20:12 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2018 18:51 TheDwf wrote:
It's a disgrace that our "leaders" even wanted to sign a joint statement with Trump considering everything he's done. Weak cowards incapable of standing up together to this horrible nationalist We can't be for integration (for good reasons) and then not try to integrate someone with obvious mental problems, just because they are in an important position. There is obviously some truth to cutting the cost on integration with certain individuals when it simply doesn't work though.
Trump is like the textbook bully of school playgrounds. To put down the bully, you ally with all the people who endure his obnoxious behaviour and gank him to teach him life. Gg no re
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New Italian Economy Minister Vows To Stay In Euro, Cut Debt Level
ROME - Italy's new coalition government has no intention of leaving the euro and plans to focus on cutting debt levels, Economy Minister Giovanni Tria said on Sunday, looking to reassure nervous financial markets.
Italian government bonds have come under concerted selling pressure on fears the government will embark on a spending splurge that Italy can ill-afford and markets are wary that euro-skeptics within the coalition might try to push Italy out of the eurozone.
"Our goal is growth and employment. But we do not plan on reviving growth through deficit spending," Tria said, adding that he would present new economic forecasts and government goals in September.
The government, comprising the anti-establishment 5-Star Movement and far-right League, initially named as economy minister a man who had called the euro an "Historic error".
"The position of the government is clear and unanimous. There is no question of leaving the euro," he said.
The new government has promised to roll back pension reform, cut taxes and boost welfare spending, measures that are expected to cost tens of billions of euros.
The previous center-left government had forecast a fall in debt to 130.8 percent of gross domestic product this year and 128 percent next year against 131.8 percent in 2017.
source
well so much for the populism
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On June 11 2018 01:47 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +New Italian Economy Minister Vows To Stay In Euro, Cut Debt Level
ROME - Italy's new coalition government has no intention of leaving the euro and plans to focus on cutting debt levels, Economy Minister Giovanni Tria said on Sunday, looking to reassure nervous financial markets.
Italian government bonds have come under concerted selling pressure on fears the government will embark on a spending splurge that Italy can ill-afford and markets are wary that euro-skeptics within the coalition might try to push Italy out of the eurozone.
"Our goal is growth and employment. But we do not plan on reviving growth through deficit spending," Tria said, adding that he would present new economic forecasts and government goals in September.
The government, comprising the anti-establishment 5-Star Movement and far-right League, initially named as economy minister a man who had called the euro an "Historic error".
"The position of the government is clear and unanimous. There is no question of leaving the euro," he said.
The new government has promised to roll back pension reform, cut taxes and boost welfare spending, measures that are expected to cost tens of billions of euros.
The previous center-left government had forecast a fall in debt to 130.8 percent of gross domestic product this year and 128 percent next year against 131.8 percent in 2017. sourcewell so much for the populism
That was a given, they committed on staying in the eurozone since the beginning. The question is, how will those Italian wizards manage to cut taxes and increase social spending without raising deficits? And when they fail to do so and sell out the social parts of their program, how mad will their voters in need be?
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The question is, how will those Italian wizards manage to cut taxes and increase social spending without raising deficits?
At least partially they can do that by dealing with the tax avoidance problem in their country.
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On June 11 2018 02:52 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +The question is, how will those Italian wizards manage to cut taxes and increase social spending without raising deficits? At least partially they can do that by dealing with the tax avoidance problem in their country.
Even if they wanted to explore that track, which I doubt, we're speaking dozens of billions of euros here
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On June 11 2018 02:55 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2018 02:52 Sent. wrote:The question is, how will those Italian wizards manage to cut taxes and increase social spending without raising deficits? At least partially they can do that by dealing with the tax avoidance problem in their country. Even if they wanted to explore that track, which I doubt, we're speaking dozens of billions of euros here
In 2015, the government estimated the country's total losses to tax evasion at €90 billion a year.
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On June 11 2018 02:57 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2018 02:55 TheDwf wrote:On June 11 2018 02:52 Sent. wrote:The question is, how will those Italian wizards manage to cut taxes and increase social spending without raising deficits? At least partially they can do that by dealing with the tax avoidance problem in their country. Even if they wanted to explore that track, which I doubt, we're speaking dozens of billions of euros here In 2015, the government estimated the country's total losses to tax evasion at €90 billion a year.
Interesting, the common figures for France are 60-80 billions per year
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On June 11 2018 02:58 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2018 02:57 Yurie wrote:On June 11 2018 02:55 TheDwf wrote:On June 11 2018 02:52 Sent. wrote:The question is, how will those Italian wizards manage to cut taxes and increase social spending without raising deficits? At least partially they can do that by dealing with the tax avoidance problem in their country. Even if they wanted to explore that track, which I doubt, we're speaking dozens of billions of euros here In 2015, the government estimated the country's total losses to tax evasion at €90 billion a year. Interesting, the common figures for France are 60-80 billions per year
Other sources for Italy put it even higher. Such as this:
https://www.money.it/Evasione-Fiscale-Italia-I-numeri-da-conoscere
So not sure what the real figure is but if they cut 50% of whatever it is then you have dozens of billions, though tax cuts and increase in spending is likely to still be impossible. One or the other should be fine though.
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On June 11 2018 03:01 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2018 02:58 TheDwf wrote:On June 11 2018 02:57 Yurie wrote:On June 11 2018 02:55 TheDwf wrote:On June 11 2018 02:52 Sent. wrote:The question is, how will those Italian wizards manage to cut taxes and increase social spending without raising deficits? At least partially they can do that by dealing with the tax avoidance problem in their country. Even if they wanted to explore that track, which I doubt, we're speaking dozens of billions of euros here In 2015, the government estimated the country's total losses to tax evasion at €90 billion a year. Interesting, the common figures for France are 60-80 billions per year Other sources for Italy put it even higher. Such as this: https://www.money.it/Evasione-Fiscale-Italia-I-numeri-da-conoscereSo not sure what the real figure is but if they cut 50% of whatever it is then you have dozens of billions, though tax cuts and increase in spending is likely to still be impossible. One or the other should be fine though.
On the long-term it's true, but it takes time to bring back all the money. Also governments are usually incredibly tolerant with that phenomenon...
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Is Macron's approval rating going up just for standing up to Trump?
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On June 11 2018 03:08 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2018 03:01 Yurie wrote:On June 11 2018 02:58 TheDwf wrote:On June 11 2018 02:57 Yurie wrote:On June 11 2018 02:55 TheDwf wrote:On June 11 2018 02:52 Sent. wrote:The question is, how will those Italian wizards manage to cut taxes and increase social spending without raising deficits? At least partially they can do that by dealing with the tax avoidance problem in their country. Even if they wanted to explore that track, which I doubt, we're speaking dozens of billions of euros here In 2015, the government estimated the country's total losses to tax evasion at €90 billion a year. Interesting, the common figures for France are 60-80 billions per year Other sources for Italy put it even higher. Such as this: https://www.money.it/Evasione-Fiscale-Italia-I-numeri-da-conoscereSo not sure what the real figure is but if they cut 50% of whatever it is then you have dozens of billions, though tax cuts and increase in spending is likely to still be impossible. One or the other should be fine though. On the long-term it's true, but it takes time to bring back all the money. Also governments are usually incredibly tolerant with that phenomenon...
Aren't there studies that say that like ~30% of italies bip is actually being created by tha mafia and therefore rarely counted, let alone taxed?
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EPT
