|
On September 21 2014 07:34 Iplaythings wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2014 06:00 Falling wrote: It teaches them some flawed kind of lesson that teaches you that you should be respectful to people or else you will be punished, rather than teaching people to be good for the sake of being good. Isn't that true of most forms of discipline such as grounding? If you don't talk respectfully, you will be punished by sitting in your room rather than talking respectfully for its own sake? Or do you advocate only talking about the benefits of obedience when a child is willfully disobeying while getting sassy about it? Well punishment is punishment, but if they learn that spanking is what you should fear/respect/whatever, gl having them respect a school teacher who cannot spank them for obvious reasons. Assume a teacher had to discipline a child at school, how'd they ever exercise authority? I dont know exactly how I'd pin it down, I'd just make sure to have contact with the child so they understand what they've done wrong rather than just be afraid of the punishment. I know children are smart enough to have a sense of right and wrong from a very early age. In regards to unruly / naughty kids (especially the "hyper" boys), as long as they aren't doing anything with malicious intent and that I feel like I can be in contact with them I think (emphasize this word alot atm), that most kids will be better once they mature and grow up some. In any case, I just fail to see how spanking teaches anything else than "what is wrong and what is okay", instead of "why x is wrong and why x is okay", it's very foreign to me, especially since the people I know who've been spanked as a child think more in "what's" than in "why's".
The teacher can just tell the parent about the disobedience. The teacher doesn't need to be able to inflict any punishment at all.
A threat of a call to a student's parents can be pretty damn effective if the parents actually discipline the child.
|
Yes I was, and I believe it was very beneficial. Usually it was just with a hand or a wooden spoon, etc.
If I choose to have kids, I will 100% use it as a parenting tool as I believe it is very effective. It boggles my mind that government would get so involved, they are your children for crying out loud, you deserve some control of raising them like you want to.
Honestly, I'm leaning away from having kids year by year, simply because the kids don't feel like "mine", and just a product of the government, and that's not what family is to me.
edit: To me it feels like more and more, kids are not well disciplined, and it just turns out we get so many little shits that end up being toxic for all of society as they get older. Maybe there are better ways, but the matter of fact is it's effective, and it's quick. I'm sorry that some people are working 40 hours a week + unpaid lunches + 2 hours transportation there and back, and still wish to have a life with their partner, there are times when you simply don't have an hour or two to talk to you kid to reason with him, especially after an exhausting day of work when you have twenty emails left to send out, some time (15-30) with your wife to spend, vacuum, dishes... AND then have some time for yourself. Just because I do this stuff doesn't mean I'm not qualified to have kids, and raise them well.
edit2: Anyway, I really want to give a big fuck you to everyone that would try to prevent me from disciplining my kids. I'm against beating, drawing blood, beating with belts, but for fucks sake, they are MY KIDS, keep your fucking claws off of them. Just like how you wouldn't like if SOSPA went through, I wouldn't like you touching my kids, I'd treat them well, and raise them well. (Just like how you'd use the internet well)... Stay the fuck away from my life, I don't tell you who you can have sex with, I don't tell you how to have sex, I don't tell you what TV shows to watch, whatever. Spanking is one of the SMALLEST issues I can think of when it comes to parenting.
How about alcoholism, drugs, smoking, irresponsibility, watching inappropriate content, beating, neglect, giving them unhealthy food, not keeping them safe from accidents occurring, support for mental well being. Like honestly, out of all the things you would focus your attention on, why in the world would you care about spanking. Just because spanking could be abused and turn into beating, doesn't mean you ban it! Like what kind of logic is that? Just because you can mistake a 20 year old for a 17 year old means you don't let 20 year olds have sex? Just because there is potential for abuse in something as important as this, does not mean you ban it... Just bleh. Please, stay the fuck away from my family if I'm not causing you harm, and when I want the best for my family. You might think you know better than me as to what my family needs, you really might, but in reality, you don't, you really don't. I apologize for getting this mad and into this rant mood, but most people here don't have kids and are talking out of their ass, and I just really really disagree with any government involved in family matters, and once people prove they are of certain level of competence, they have some freedom in their life... Like choosing to wear a seat belt at 30km/h, choosing what their kids eat, choosing which classes their kids should take, etc.
There needs to be a level of trust between the government and the people (for fucks sake, due some metal examination), but stop monitoring my family, stay out of that life, and let me live in peace.
|
I was spanked and i liked it.
Seriously though, i was "spanked" and it doesnt bother me at all, never even think about it.
|
Canada11355 Posts
Why do you need violence to raise your children? In what scenario does a child prove to be such a danger that words and, in the case of the child being violent?
You want the child to behave but lack the motivation to put the effort in to explaining why something is wrong? Just slap it around! Not only do you get the child to stop misbehaving at that moment, you teach the child a valuable lesson in how the world works!
If we want children to grow up into decent members of society we should probably teach them that initiating violence when not in physical danger is wrong. Just my opinion I guess.
|
On September 21 2014 10:51 Fecalfeast wrote:
Why do you need violence to raise your children? In what scenario does a child prove to be such a danger that words and, in the case of the child being violent?
You want the child to behave but lack the motivation to put the effort in to explaining why something is wrong? Just slap it around! Not only do you get the child to stop misbehaving at that moment, you teach the child a valuable lesson in how the world works!
If we want children to grow up into decent members of society we should probably teach them that initiating violence when not in physical danger is wrong. Just my opinion I guess.
I think that when a kid is 4-5 years old, you can't reason everything with them. To an extent you must treat them like a puppy, and train them in a way where the outcome of their action is undesirable.
I don't think the difference between hitting, grounding, not giving them what they want, or whatever is that much different. Only difference is one is at an emotional level, while one is at a physical level, and both are wrong in society.
However, I think hitting them is something that will last longer, and honestly I'd say that minor physical pain (like getting hit with a wooden spoon) is much less harmful in the long term than emotional or mental punishment. Again, I'm glad you have an opinion on the matter, but I think it's something that you should "bug off" with, from my viewpoint. As long as I'm raising my kid reasonably well, I don't think there should be anyone who interferes, and the fact that this was the norm 40 years ago, most likely means this isn't some awful way of raising a child. That's why, if it's not game changing, stay away from peoples' families. I'm sure you wouldn't like if I started telling you what you have to feed to your kid or something.
|
I certainly was, but only when I REALLY fucked up as a kid, maybe 5 or 6 times at most. I was also punched by my father exactly one time.
|
On September 21 2014 10:51 Fecalfeast wrote:
Why do you need violence to raise your children? In what scenario does a child prove to be such a danger that words and, in the case of the child being violent?
You want the child to behave but lack the motivation to put the effort in to explaining why something is wrong? Just slap it around! Not only do you get the child to stop misbehaving at that moment, you teach the child a valuable lesson in how the world works!
If we want children to grow up into decent members of society we should probably teach them that initiating violence when not in physical danger is wrong. Just my opinion I guess.
Yep, just the way I see it. If my kids ever acquire any learned violent behaviors, it won't be from me. I guess when you have a paranoid schizophrenic mother that accuses her children of all sorts of false things and get the belt for it, it's easy to see where anger issues and problems with authority can stem from. Some of Louis CK skits about the issue is pretty much how I see it. On the other hand I don't want to try and tell others how to raise their kids... it's not my conscience. Just beware when that dog turns on its master like I did.
|
On September 21 2014 10:51 Fecalfeast wrote:
Why do you need violence to raise your children? In what scenario does a child prove to be such a danger that words and, in the case of the child being violent?
You want the child to behave but lack the motivation to put the effort in to explaining why something is wrong? Just slap it around! Not only do you get the child to stop misbehaving at that moment, you teach the child a valuable lesson in how the world works!
If we want children to grow up into decent members of society we should probably teach them that initiating violence when not in physical danger is wrong. Just my opinion I guess.
Because at the age you would spank a child (under 10 or so), that child is incapable of reason. Without real repercussions, all the reasoning in the world will not dissuade some children from misbehaving.
Spanking does not mean you can't also explain why what they did was wrong. It's just that the explanation alone is not enough at times.
|
Canada11355 Posts
On September 21 2014 10:57 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2014 10:51 Fecalfeast wrote:
Why do you need violence to raise your children? In what scenario does a child prove to be such a danger that words and, in the case of the child being violent?
You want the child to behave but lack the motivation to put the effort in to explaining why something is wrong? Just slap it around! Not only do you get the child to stop misbehaving at that moment, you teach the child a valuable lesson in how the world works!
If we want children to grow up into decent members of society we should probably teach them that initiating violence when not in physical danger is wrong. Just my opinion I guess. I think that when a kid is 4-5 years old, you can't reason everything with them. To an extent you must treat them like a puppy, and train them in a way where the outcome of their action is undesirable. I don't think the difference between hitting, grounding, not giving them what they want, or whatever is that much different. Only difference is one is at an emotional level, while one is at a physical level, and both are wrong in society. However, I think hitting them is something that will last longer, and honestly I'd say that minor physical pain (like getting hit with a wooden spoon) is much less harmful in the long term than emotional or mental punishment. Again, I'm glad you have an opinion on the matter, but I think it's something that you should "bug off" with, from my viewpoint. As long as I'm raising my kid reasonably well, I don't think there should be anyone who interferes, and the fact that this was the norm 40 years ago, most likely means this isn't some awful way of raising a child. That's why, if it's not game changing, stay away from peoples' families. I'm sure you wouldn't like if I started telling you what you have to feed to your kid or something.
I also don't hit my dogs, who cannot reason at even a 3-year-old level and they are also well-behaved.
Just because you want to take the easy road that involved violence, which should be abhorred in our society not protected, does not mean that I should 'bug off' on the matter. Again, all you teach a child at that age (4-5 years) by hitting is that punishment should be avoided (notice I say punishment and not bad behaviour) and that when you can't reason with someone in a situation where you believe yourself to be in the right, violence is a viable option.
I seriously can't believe how many people here are advocating and defending adults who use violence against 4 year olds...
|
I live in North America and was spanked as a child, and I think it's perfectly acceptable. Obviously there's a line that shouldn't be crossed, though.
|
OMG I MADE A TYPE IN THE POLL, WOOW... TOO* not TO... Sorry, I'm literate in stuff in English.
Poll: In general. Does government play too large of a role in family life?Yes, wayy to big of a role. (11) 46% They should make more laws and enforce them. (8) 33% Just right the way it is. (3) 13% A little bit more than I'd like. (2) 8% 24 total votes Your vote: In general. Does government play too large of a role in family life? (Vote): Yes, wayy to big of a role.
(Vote): A little bit more than I'd like.
(Vote): Just right the way it is.
(Vote): They should make more laws and enforce them.
|
Canada11355 Posts
On September 21 2014 11:00 screamingpalm wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2014 10:51 Fecalfeast wrote:
Why do you need violence to raise your children? In what scenario does a child prove to be such a danger that words and, in the case of the child being violent?
You want the child to behave but lack the motivation to put the effort in to explaining why something is wrong? Just slap it around! Not only do you get the child to stop misbehaving at that moment, you teach the child a valuable lesson in how the world works!
If we want children to grow up into decent members of society we should probably teach them that initiating violence when not in physical danger is wrong. Just my opinion I guess. Yep, just the way I see it. If my kids ever acquire any learned violent behaviors, it won't be from me. I guess when you have a paranoid schizophrenic mother that accuses her children of all sorts of false things and get the belt for it, it's easy to see where anger issues and problems with authority can stem from. Some of Louis CK skits about the issue is pretty much how I see it. On the other hand I don't want to try and tell others how to raise their kids... it's not my conscience. Just beware when that dog turns on its master like I did.
This post raises another point I was about to make. I have friends who were beat, I have friends who were spanked, I have friends who got the belt. Want to know one thing they had in common all throughout highschool? They constantly talked about how much they disliked their parents.
I think I am missing a crucial part of this discussion. Someone please create a hypothetical situation wherein a child not only 'deserves' to be spanked/hit but there is no alternative method to correct the behaviour.
|
Canada11355 Posts
On September 21 2014 11:07 FiWiFaKi wrote:Poll: In general. Does government play too large of a role in family life?Yes, wayy to big of a role. (11) 46% They should make more laws and enforce them. (8) 33% Just right the way it is. (3) 13% A little bit more than I'd like. (2) 8% 24 total votes Your vote: In general. Does government play too large of a role in family life? (Vote): Yes, wayy to big of a role.
(Vote): A little bit more than I'd like.
(Vote): Just right the way it is.
(Vote): They should make more laws and enforce them.
I voted 'wayy too much'
I will never advocate government intervention in family matters. The government has nothing to do with what I am saying
|
On September 21 2014 11:05 Fecalfeast wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2014 10:57 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 21 2014 10:51 Fecalfeast wrote:
Why do you need violence to raise your children? In what scenario does a child prove to be such a danger that words and, in the case of the child being violent?
You want the child to behave but lack the motivation to put the effort in to explaining why something is wrong? Just slap it around! Not only do you get the child to stop misbehaving at that moment, you teach the child a valuable lesson in how the world works!
If we want children to grow up into decent members of society we should probably teach them that initiating violence when not in physical danger is wrong. Just my opinion I guess. I think that when a kid is 4-5 years old, you can't reason everything with them. To an extent you must treat them like a puppy, and train them in a way where the outcome of their action is undesirable. I don't think the difference between hitting, grounding, not giving them what they want, or whatever is that much different. Only difference is one is at an emotional level, while one is at a physical level, and both are wrong in society. However, I think hitting them is something that will last longer, and honestly I'd say that minor physical pain (like getting hit with a wooden spoon) is much less harmful in the long term than emotional or mental punishment. Again, I'm glad you have an opinion on the matter, but I think it's something that you should "bug off" with, from my viewpoint. As long as I'm raising my kid reasonably well, I don't think there should be anyone who interferes, and the fact that this was the norm 40 years ago, most likely means this isn't some awful way of raising a child. That's why, if it's not game changing, stay away from peoples' families. I'm sure you wouldn't like if I started telling you what you have to feed to your kid or something. I also don't hit my dogs, who cannot reason at even a 3-year-old level and they are also well-behaved. Just because you want to take the easy road that involved violence, which should be abhorred in our society not protected, does not mean that I should 'bug off' on the matter. Again, all you teach a child at that age (4-5 years) by hitting is that punishment should be avoided (notice I say punishment and not bad behaviour) and that when you can't reason with someone in a situation where you believe yourself to be in the right, violence is a viable option. I seriously can't believe how many people here are advocating and defending adults who use violence against 4 year olds...
You are not looking at this correctly (in my opinion of course)
Think of it this way, a kid touches fire, it gets burned, kid does not touch fire again. A kid does something really stupid, you don't need to give them a deep explanation of why not to do it. Teach it that's wrong like a reflex, no thinking involved as a kid.
Again, when you touch a fire, you don't go justify to yourself that because the molecules are vibrating too quickly, their kinetic energy will transfer to your skin very quickly, raise the temperature, and begin to break molecular bonds in your skin. Right? Exact same way you treat a kid if he's going to be really misbehaving. I wasn't tough violence, I don't hate my parents, it can be done in effective ways.
I just feel like I have no control over my kid when I read all these rules, and I don't know, but I don't like that. To me, my child isn't a creation of the state, I take a much more individualistic approach to this matter, and treat my kid as an extension of me, someone I can pass down my wisdom to, make them not make the same mistakes as me, and I see them as my creating that I protect until it's able to fend for it's own in this world, but until then, they are very much so bound to me. And if I did my job right, they will be successful in the ways I want them to be while still maintaining a great relationship with them.
I'm not in the make clones for the government business.
|
Canada11355 Posts
On September 21 2014 11:11 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2014 11:05 Fecalfeast wrote:On September 21 2014 10:57 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 21 2014 10:51 Fecalfeast wrote:
Why do you need violence to raise your children? In what scenario does a child prove to be such a danger that words and, in the case of the child being violent?
You want the child to behave but lack the motivation to put the effort in to explaining why something is wrong? Just slap it around! Not only do you get the child to stop misbehaving at that moment, you teach the child a valuable lesson in how the world works!
If we want children to grow up into decent members of society we should probably teach them that initiating violence when not in physical danger is wrong. Just my opinion I guess. I think that when a kid is 4-5 years old, you can't reason everything with them. To an extent you must treat them like a puppy, and train them in a way where the outcome of their action is undesirable. I don't think the difference between hitting, grounding, not giving them what they want, or whatever is that much different. Only difference is one is at an emotional level, while one is at a physical level, and both are wrong in society. However, I think hitting them is something that will last longer, and honestly I'd say that minor physical pain (like getting hit with a wooden spoon) is much less harmful in the long term than emotional or mental punishment. Again, I'm glad you have an opinion on the matter, but I think it's something that you should "bug off" with, from my viewpoint. As long as I'm raising my kid reasonably well, I don't think there should be anyone who interferes, and the fact that this was the norm 40 years ago, most likely means this isn't some awful way of raising a child. That's why, if it's not game changing, stay away from peoples' families. I'm sure you wouldn't like if I started telling you what you have to feed to your kid or something. I also don't hit my dogs, who cannot reason at even a 3-year-old level and they are also well-behaved. Just because you want to take the easy road that involved violence, which should be abhorred in our society not protected, does not mean that I should 'bug off' on the matter. Again, all you teach a child at that age (4-5 years) by hitting is that punishment should be avoided (notice I say punishment and not bad behaviour) and that when you can't reason with someone in a situation where you believe yourself to be in the right, violence is a viable option. I seriously can't believe how many people here are advocating and defending adults who use violence against 4 year olds... You are not looking at this correctly (in my opinion of course) Think of it this way, a kid touches fire, it gets burned, kid does not touch fire again. A kid does something really stupid, you don't need to give them a deep explanation of why not to do it. Teach it that's wrong like a reflex, no thinking involved as a kid. Again, when you touch a fire, you don't go justify to yourself that because the molecules are vibrating too quickly, their kinetic energy will transfer to your skin very quickly, raise the temperature, and begin to break molecular bonds in your skin. Right? Exact same way you treat a kid if he's going to be really misbehaving.
What are you even trying to say? What I got from this post cannot be what you mean. It's like you are saying: "If my kid does <undisclosed action that is bad>, I don't want him to know why it is bad, just that if he does that thing, he will be struck."
So you want your child to just do whatever he got hit for while you aren't looking to see why you were so upset about it?
|
Canada11355 Posts
On September 21 2014 11:11 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I just feel like I have no control over my kid when I read all these rules, and I don't know, but I don't like that. To me, my child isn't a creation of the state, I take a much more individualistic approach to this matter, and treat my kid as an extension of me, someone I can pass down my wisdom to, make them not make the same mistakes as me, and I see them as my creating that I protect until it's able to fend for it's own in this world, but until then, they are very much so bound to me. And if I did my job right, they will be successful in the ways I want them to be while still maintaining a great relationship with them.
I'm not in the make clones for the government business.
"I just think that if I want to smack my own 4 year old on the mouth for stealing cookies, nobody should say a fucking word about it"
|
On September 21 2014 11:17 Fecalfeast wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2014 11:11 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 21 2014 11:05 Fecalfeast wrote:On September 21 2014 10:57 FiWiFaKi wrote:On September 21 2014 10:51 Fecalfeast wrote:
Why do you need violence to raise your children? In what scenario does a child prove to be such a danger that words and, in the case of the child being violent?
You want the child to behave but lack the motivation to put the effort in to explaining why something is wrong? Just slap it around! Not only do you get the child to stop misbehaving at that moment, you teach the child a valuable lesson in how the world works!
If we want children to grow up into decent members of society we should probably teach them that initiating violence when not in physical danger is wrong. Just my opinion I guess. I think that when a kid is 4-5 years old, you can't reason everything with them. To an extent you must treat them like a puppy, and train them in a way where the outcome of their action is undesirable. I don't think the difference between hitting, grounding, not giving them what they want, or whatever is that much different. Only difference is one is at an emotional level, while one is at a physical level, and both are wrong in society. However, I think hitting them is something that will last longer, and honestly I'd say that minor physical pain (like getting hit with a wooden spoon) is much less harmful in the long term than emotional or mental punishment. Again, I'm glad you have an opinion on the matter, but I think it's something that you should "bug off" with, from my viewpoint. As long as I'm raising my kid reasonably well, I don't think there should be anyone who interferes, and the fact that this was the norm 40 years ago, most likely means this isn't some awful way of raising a child. That's why, if it's not game changing, stay away from peoples' families. I'm sure you wouldn't like if I started telling you what you have to feed to your kid or something. I also don't hit my dogs, who cannot reason at even a 3-year-old level and they are also well-behaved. Just because you want to take the easy road that involved violence, which should be abhorred in our society not protected, does not mean that I should 'bug off' on the matter. Again, all you teach a child at that age (4-5 years) by hitting is that punishment should be avoided (notice I say punishment and not bad behaviour) and that when you can't reason with someone in a situation where you believe yourself to be in the right, violence is a viable option. I seriously can't believe how many people here are advocating and defending adults who use violence against 4 year olds... You are not looking at this correctly (in my opinion of course) Think of it this way, a kid touches fire, it gets burned, kid does not touch fire again. A kid does something really stupid, you don't need to give them a deep explanation of why not to do it. Teach it that's wrong like a reflex, no thinking involved as a kid. Again, when you touch a fire, you don't go justify to yourself that because the molecules are vibrating too quickly, their kinetic energy will transfer to your skin very quickly, raise the temperature, and begin to break molecular bonds in your skin. Right? Exact same way you treat a kid if he's going to be really misbehaving. What are you even trying to say? What I got from this post cannot be what you mean. It's like you are saying: "If my kid does <undisclosed action that is bad>, I don't want him to know why it is bad, just that if he does that thing, he will be struck." So you want your child to just do whatever he got hit for while you aren't looking to see why you were so upset about it?
I think you should tell them, and every spanking should be with an explanation, afterwards preferred imo.
But reality is, I don't think it sticks nearly as well as a little tingle of physical pain. It's something that needs to be repeated, and through that explanation and punishment, the kid will learn what's right and what's wrong. There's more than one approach to raising a kid, I've seen lots of different things, having been raised in Slovakia and then moving to Canada, and from what I can tell, as long as the kid isn't coming to school with visible marks on their skin, physical abuse is usually not the culprit(not that I condone that behavior in my family, but if someone else was doing it, I wouldn't step in until it surpassed that threshold).... And much more likely neglect or substance abuse.
|
On September 21 2014 11:19 Fecalfeast wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2014 11:11 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I just feel like I have no control over my kid when I read all these rules, and I don't know, but I don't like that. To me, my child isn't a creation of the state, I take a much more individualistic approach to this matter, and treat my kid as an extension of me, someone I can pass down my wisdom to, make them not make the same mistakes as me, and I see them as my creating that I protect until it's able to fend for it's own in this world, but until then, they are very much so bound to me. And if I did my job right, they will be successful in the ways I want them to be while still maintaining a great relationship with them.
I'm not in the make clones for the government business. "I just think that if I want to smack my own 4 year old on the mouth for stealing cookies, nobody should say a fucking word about it"
I wouldn't hit my kid for that, but I think people should have the right to yes. I would oppose hitting to the head, but I have no issue warranting a spanking for the kid if he's breaking the house rules.
It's the long time example. How should the punishment differ for stealing a bushel of wheat versus stealing a carriage, when the intention is the same. The size of what's stolen should not be proportional to the punishment, rather it should be logarithmic.
|
Canada11355 Posts
Here I was thinking the general consensus would be to avoid violence at all possible avenues.
This thread is a real eye-opener. You say you weren't "tough" violence, which I assume you mean taught, but you are advocating it right now.
|
Canada11355 Posts
AS LONG AS YOU BEAT YOUR CHILD SO THAT THERE ARE NO VISIBLE MARKS, THE PHYSICAL ABUSE CANNOT BE THE CAUSE OF EMOTIONAL OR BEHAVIORAL PROBLEMS
You heard it here first folks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
