EPTLet's be real, you will never win the war just by firing rockets, but you must do something to show for your cause.
If we look back in history, all these indirect, terror attack never achieves their goals, other than brutal crackdown.
Gaza war 2014 - Page 46
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furymonkey
New Zealand1587 Posts
Let's be real, you will never win the war just by firing rockets, but you must do something to show for your cause. If we look back in history, all these indirect, terror attack never achieves their goals, other than brutal crackdown. | ||
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EtherealBlade
660 Posts
On July 28 2014 12:13 Sub40APM wrote: I have to agree, it is pretty disgusting how the deaths of Muslims at hands of Israelis are this world disaster that massive protests have to be held for. Death of Muslims at the hands of Muslims? Maybe 5-10 Syrian exiles show up or whatever. Europeans and leftists really have a fixation with Israel that is beyond reasonable -- the only thing that I think mildly justfyes their behavior is that Israel as a democracy is much more likely to reply to criticism than a despotate. But even this is fucking weak, too many Communists are still fixated on fighting 'anti-colonialism' So at the end of the day massacring 1000 civilians is not that big of a deal after all to be in the news? Noone ever gave a damn what happened during African wars and civil wars. Yet South Africa was painted as a guilty and oppressive nation and treated as a pariah state, because of their racial policies that had much fewer casualties. Israel is also following racial policies and commiting systematical ethnic cleansing. For this, they recieve trillions of $$ worth of equipment and money from states like the USA and Germany, and are not held accountable in any way. That's why people are protesting against Israel in the West, not because they are "closet antisemites" whatever that means. | ||
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PrideNeverDie
United States319 Posts
On July 28 2014 16:06 Scarecrow wrote: Reversing the roles is ridiculous. The palestinians are so desperate and downtrodden that extremists are bound to surface. Its difficult to imagine israel put in a similar situation. Though considering how extreme some of their politicians already are I dont doubt they'd be just as ruthless with their backs to the wall fighting for their people. what is ridiculous is holding only 1 side of the conflict accountable for their actions | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5293 Posts
On July 28 2014 16:50 PrideNeverDie wrote: what is ridiculous is holding only 1 side of the conflict accountable for their actions since Palestine as a state doesn't exist, you have only one side. so it's one side, one state, killing it's own residents on the grounds of ...<insert your own propaganda here>...?. | ||
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PrideNeverDie
United States319 Posts
Palestine is winning the PR war so they want it to continue until the whole world will villify Israel at the expense of their own civilians look at the military difference and ask yourself why does Palestine keep instigating conflict. it is because they want to provoke Israel until the international community condemns them and they are willing to sacrifice their own civilians to do it. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9712 Posts
Simple. I protested just as much when my country went to Iraq and killed everyone. ISIS is far worse than Israel, but my government aren't involved with them so there's really not much i can do. Do you think they really give a shit about me protesting? no. | ||
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PrideNeverDie
United States319 Posts
On July 28 2014 17:09 Jockmcplop wrote: I'll stop protesting about Israel when my government stops arming them and giving them money. I'll stop buying goods from ISIS when they start selling in stores in England. If i don't protest against my government giving Israelis money, and i don't stop buying Israeli goods, then i am complicit in their war crimes. Simple. I protested just as much when my country went to Iraq and killed everyone. ISIS is far worse than Israel, but my government aren't involved with them so there's really not much i can do. Do you think they really give a shit about me protesting? no. http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/how-the-west-bankrolls-isis-millions-from-governments-and-ngos-funding-radical-islamic-terror-group-30438217.html Western governments are sending millions of pounds of aid to areas held by the radical Islamic group Isis in northern Syria. The aid, which is paid for by the UK, European and US governments, consists of food, medicine and hygiene kits. It is brought into the country through the war-torn north from the two last remaining border posts open with Turkey in Reyhanli and Kilis. Aid groups say their aim is to help vulnerable people, not to support the rule of Isis. Mercy Corps, which has headquarters in the UK and the US, has received £27.3m from the UK Department for International Development for humanitarian activities in Syria. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5293 Posts
On July 28 2014 17:03 PrideNeverDie wrote: exactly Palestine is winning the PR war so they want it to continue until the whole world will villify Israel at the expense of their own civilians look at the military difference and ask yourself why does Palestine keep instigating conflict. it is because they want to provoke Israel until the international community condemns them and they are willing to sacrifice their own civilians to do it. what are you talking about?, everybody knows that Israel attacked first ... the kidnappings were lies. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9712 Posts
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Noam
Israel2209 Posts
On July 28 2014 17:20 xM(Z wrote: the kidnappings were lies. /r/conspiracy leaking all the way to TL ? Maybe I should give you more credit and think you are trolling. | ||
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Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
On July 28 2014 16:19 xM(Z wrote: that's just bullshit and you know it. first off, in Iraq and Syria you have a declared war; it's between two sides of relative strength. people killed there are casualties of war. in Palestine you have boxed in arabs not wanting to throw themselves into the sea yet. secondly, Assad was hit with sanctions from day 1, Israel is fine and dandy. also, people should stop saying Israel is a democracy because it's not. it's a totalitarian Judaic state. It's much more than war between two sides of relative strength. There are brutal acts of torture, more dying on a daily basis, the persecution of Christians, desecration of holy sites, public executions...the list goes on. It does not make sense to care 1000x more for the deaths in Gaza and ignore what else is going on. Also, if you do actually care about human rights, your outrage should be directed toward places where human rights violations are exponentially worse than what happens in Israel: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, etc. (and even Palestine too). But it's not. This is why at least suspicions of Jew-hatred are absolutely warranted here. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9712 Posts
On July 28 2014 17:49 Thor.Rush wrote: It's much more than war between two sides of relative strength. There are brutal acts of torture, more dying on a daily basis, the persecution of Christians, desecration of holy sites, public executions...the list goes on. It does not make sense to care 1000x more for the deaths in Gaza and ignore what else is going on. Also, if you do actually care about human rights, your outrage should be directed toward places where human rights violations are exponentially worse than what happens in Israel: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, etc. (and even Palestine too). But it's not. This is why at least suspicions of Jew-hatred are absolutely warranted here. Don't equate Jews with Israel please. I can't believe how many times i have had to point out the distinction in this thread. The situation with Israel and Palestine is one that can improve with international pressure, i believe. Israel, in its own small way, does sometimes respond to international pressure. Instead of taking it as Jew hatred, it should be taken as a compliment that they aren't seen as a warlike people who don't respond to diplomacy like ISIS. Western countries have a hotline to Israel that can be used for good. I want my government to use that. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5293 Posts
On July 28 2014 17:34 Noam wrote: /r/conspiracy leaking all the way to TL ? Maybe I should give you more credit and think you are trolling. i could swear i read in this thread that Israelis knew the people kidnapped were dead before attacking Gaza. Edit: On July 26 2014 09:29 HeartOfTheSwarm wrote: In the end it wasn't even Hamas that kidnapped the 3 teens Israel used as a pretext to start the war. It turns out Hamas didn't kidnap the Israeli teens after all But now, officials admit the kidnappings were not Hamas's handiwork after all. | ||
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Noam
Israel2209 Posts
There was a recording where one of the boys called the police, and there was a sound which was later thought to be a single gunshot (I am sure no one can even say that for certain). Other than that there was no actual evidence suggesting they are dead. The fact that Hamas did not officially kidnap them does not change the turn of events in the slightest, especially when hamas admits to ATTEMPTING to kidnap civilians all the time. Israel is at war with Hamas because Hamas wants to destroy Israel. Limiting this conflict to the most recent reason that increased the violence is shortsighted. I even find it funny when Israel supporters scream "they[Hamas] started it!". This started in 1947 when the UN gave jews apart of this land and the arabs decided to remove us by force. Anyway, here's the turn of recent events as far as I can remember. Don't take it as evidence (not that I would expect a self declared anti-semite to believe something an Israeli jew says... I read your comment history, you are definitely not a troll, just another anti-semite, but at least you admit to it and take pride in it!):
And here we are now, where Israel is under a threat it cannot ignore (intelligence suggests Hamas has over 50 tunnels from Gaza to Israel, and planned to use them in an organized surprise ground attack on civilians). And Hamas is exactly where it wants to be. Their leaders are enjoying the good life in Qatar, and the civilians who elected them are dying to protect them. | ||
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EtherealBlade
660 Posts
On July 28 2014 18:31 Noam wrote:
And here we are now, where Israel is under a threat it cannot ignore (intelligence suggests Hamas has over 50 tunnels from Gaza to Israel, and planned to use them in an organized surprise ground attack on civilians). And Hamas is exactly where it wants to be. Their leaders are enjoying the good life in Qatar, and the civilians who elected them are dying to protect them. You mean 3 settlers. If every Palestinian that can throw a stone is a terrorist, then all settlers are also terrorists. During the "investigation" hundreds were arrested, homes were demolished and several killed. What kind of investigation is that? Like you've written "army / police", as in some kind of military dictatorship. Drones have also been firing non stop into Gaza. No organisation? That's why there are thousands of people chanting death to Arabs on the streets? Ministers encouraging the slaughter? It looks very well organised, and at least tolerated by the governing parties. And here we arrive at the "threat" Israel cannot ignore. See how well Israel managed to get threatened again, provoking Palestinians then invoking their right to "self defense", as Obama puts it. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On July 28 2014 12:07 Nyxisto wrote: That is why way earlier in this thread I accused some of these pro-Palestinian Europeans of being closet Anti-Semites. Here in Germany they can't stand a Muslim wearing a headscarf, but when its about jihadist militants in the middle-east they suddenly start showing their compassionate side. If they'd spend 1/10 of that empathy for the Muslims living here we'd have way less cultural problems. But Muslims here aren't killed by evil murderous Jews so that's obviously not going to happen. These Anti-Israel demos over here paint a funny picture. At times you could see right-wingers and Muslims waving Palestinian flags together. Guess they've found the single thing they hate more than each other. In Paris, a few days ago: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://bilder.bild.de/fotos-skaliert/par7939557-jpg_40017560_mbqf-1406447571-36994340/2,w=650,c=0.bild.jpg) Syria is another problem altogether. Many people are interested about it, and many people talk about it everyday - lately a book made best seller in France about raping in Syria as weapon of war - but the situation is harder to grasp due to radical islamism. We talked everyday about Darfour also. France is at war in Mali and intervene in other countries in africa (Tchad, Gabon, Somalia, Ivory Coast, Senegal), altho it doesn't seem to be effective because it is always better to help people build their own infrastructure and their own police force than to keep peace with foreign weapons. Israel has been going on for forty years. Forty years of colonisation and oppression, and everybody understands what is going on because of that history. This is the reason people are mobilised. Pretty good article on Israel reasons in targetting hospitals, what is known about those hospitals, and the Hamas using or not human shield. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/24/gaza-hamas-fighters-military-bases-guerrilla-war-civilians-israel-idf A little abstract about Israel caring about civilians : Israel, meanwhile, does not have an unblemished record in the use of human shields. In 2010, two soldiers were convicted in an IDF military court of using an 11-year-old Palestinian boy as a human shield in its 2008-09 operation in Gaza. The pair ordered the child to search bags they suspected of being booby-trapped. It was the first conviction of what is known within the IDF as the "neighbour procedure" – forcing civilians to assist troops in military operations. Investigations by news organisations and human rights groups have suggested the IDF has used Palestinians as human shields in operations in both Gaza and the West Bank. Meanwhile, in response to Israel's assertions that Hamas situates its military centres in civilian areas, some have pointed out that the IDF's headquarters, the Kiriya, is in central Tel Aviv, surrounded by a hospital, blocks of flats, shopping centres and offices. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On July 28 2014 17:49 Thor.Rush wrote: It's much more than war between two sides of relative strength. There are brutal acts of torture, more dying on a daily basis, the persecution of Christians, desecration of holy sites, public executions...the list goes on. It does not make sense to care 1000x more for the deaths in Gaza and ignore what else is going on. Also, if you do actually care about human rights, your outrage should be directed toward places where human rights violations are exponentially worse than what happens in Israel: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, etc. (and even Palestine too). But it's not. This is why at least suspicions of Jew-hatred are absolutely warranted here. There is another thread about the Syrian and Iraqi civil wars, with about four thousand replies. I agree that you can find plenty of anti-semitism among many critics of Israel, but you can also find no anti-semitism whatsoever among many others, who are rightly criticizing Israel for being responsible for the continuation of the entire israelo-palestinian conflict by refusing to move forward with negotiations with Abbas. Entering a thread which is precisely dedicated to the Israelo-Palestinian conflict and accusing posters of discussing that topic is nonsensical. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On July 28 2014 18:31 Noam wrote: Israel is at war with Hamas because Hamas wants to destroy Israel. Limiting this conflict to the most recent reason that increased the violence is shortsighted. If you don't want to be shortsighted, then you'll have to agree that, as I posted earlier, Israel is to blame for the continuation of the entire crisis. The solution to the israelo-palestinian conflict has to be political. Who is blocking the political peace process? Israel. You could arguably share the blame prior to Abbas' arrival to power at the head of the Palestinian authority ten years ago. No longer. Abbas has clearly shown himself willing to negotiate time and time again. It is the Israeli government which has systematically blocked negotiations and refused moving forward, all while continuing to build colonies in territories that do not belong to them. I have no love whatsoever for Hamas, but Israel made Hamas what it is by refusing to negotiate with Abbas, and it is in those negotiations that the key to peace lies. On July 28 2014 18:31 Noam wrote: Anyway, here's the turn of recent events as far as I can remember. Don't take it as evidence (not that I would expect a self declared anti-semite to believe something an Israeli jew says... I read your comment history, you are definitely not a troll, just another anti-semite, but at least you admit to it and take pride in it!):
Also, you seem to have conveniently left out of your timeline the fact that the "investigation" resulted in the death of Palestinian civilians and was condemned by human rights organizations, and that it is these deaths which led to a reaction from Hamas (which hadn't actually ordered rocket fire nor the kidnapping of anyone at that point in the crisis). I'll reiterate that I do not support Hamas in any way, and that I am extremely critical of them, but it is simply factually wrong to imply that they somehow "attacked first" in this crisis. | ||
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ImFromPortugal
Portugal1368 Posts
On July 28 2014 18:31 Noam wrote: They were presumed alive, and no one knew anything until their bodies were found. There was a recording where one of the boys called the police, and there was a sound which was later thought to be a single gunshot (I am sure no one can even say that for certain). Other than that there was no actual evidence suggesting they are dead. The fact that Hamas did not officially kidnap them does not change the turn of events in the slightest, especially when hamas admits to ATTEMPTING to kidnap civilians all the time. Israel is at war with Hamas because Hamas wants to destroy Israel. Limiting this conflict to the most recent reason that increased the violence is shortsighted. I even find it funny when Israel supporters scream "they[Hamas] started it!". This started in 1947 when the UN gave jews apart of this land and the arabs decided to remove us by force. Anyway, here's the turn of recent events as far as I can remember. Don't take it as evidence (not that I would expect a self declared anti-semite to believe something an Israeli jew says... I read your comment history, you are definitely not a troll, just another anti-semite, but at least you admit to it and take pride in it!):
And here we are now, where Israel is under a threat it cannot ignore (intelligence suggests Hamas has over 50 tunnels from Gaza to Israel, and planned to use them in an organized surprise ground attack on civilians). And Hamas is exactly where it wants to be. Their leaders are enjoying the good life in Qatar, and the civilians who elected them are dying to protect them. This started when the zionist terrorists started bombing hotels and killing people long before the arabs. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On July 28 2014 22:24 ImFromPortugal wrote: This started when the zionist terrorists started bombing hotels and killing people long before the arabs. Fairly amusing to see how he conveniently forgot this part about the history. It's the reason for this whole clusterfuck in the first place. I don't really like Palestine at all, but I don't know, you can't kickoff everything with terrorism, ethnic cleansing, deportation, and now apartheid and land-grabbing, and expect the people to be happy about it. I guess it's easier to justify and stomach when you consider them inherently inferior to yourself. This attitude and mindset is certainly nothing novel. It's existed a million times over historically, even in US history of all places (slavery being a prime example), but in this century, one would expect people to be a bit more civilized. Even the South African leaders eventually learned that having humans in a position like dogs due to racial policy is pretty bad. | ||
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