|
On July 28 2014 08:35 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2014 08:34 soon.Cloak wrote:On July 28 2014 08:29 WhiteDog wrote:On July 28 2014 08:25 Nyxisto wrote:On July 28 2014 08:18 EtherealBlade wrote:On July 28 2014 07:47 Nyxisto wrote:On July 28 2014 07:43 kwizach wrote:On July 28 2014 07:31 Nyxisto wrote:On July 28 2014 07:26 WhiteDog wrote:On July 28 2014 06:50 soon.Cloak wrote:[quote] Let me pull a few from here: http://972mag.com/2013-was-a-deadly-year-in-israel-palestine/84728/So we have people trying to cross the border fence (and Israel has no way to tell who is a terrorist and who is innocent, and there have been way more than enough terrorists to justify this fear), people that threw Molotov cocktails at guards, people that threw stones at soldiers, people that were killed, but not by the IDF, etc...So yes, there has been tension, and there have been deaths, but without context of who died why, you can't make any broad accusation. And Israel has eased the blockade over the years, as per the treaty. They eased it in 2010, in 2012, and in 2013. Yes, it is still imperfect, but it has definitely been eased, and is definitely still necessary. And "control most resources/infrastructure" is an interesting way of putting it. Would you like Israel to stop providing Gaza with electricity? Somehow I think that, even if all blockades were lifted, Gaza would not be able to manage. Israel is keeping Gaza alive. I'm for self determination. I prefer that a country control its own water and produce its own electricity than a situation where one people is made dependant on another people, than a situation were one people dominate the other. I'm sure the white afrcaners had the same kind of argument to justify apartheid : we produce their electricity, we give them food and work. Yeah, except for the part where the white people fled to Africa because millions of them got slaughtered on their home-continent, just to again face the threat of extermination by all the black people who collectively declared war on them. Oh Wait that didn't actually happen and comparing Israel to White supremacists is completely moronic. You do know that analogies are there to compare an aspect of two situations and not the two situations in their entirety, right? Did you completely miss the point of what WhiteDog was trying to say? Yes, I do. My point is that it's fucking ridiculous to compare the Israelis who just lost one third of their population to white imperialistic colonists. Sorry that I have no nerve for the tenth "Israel is literally Hitler" analogy. Why is that? Losing "one third" of their population entitles them to something at the Palestinians' expense that the South Africaners had no right to do? Aren't the illegal settlers imperialistic colonists in your opinion? No. they're illegal settlers. Trying to compare 8 million people that had just survived the Holocaust to imperialistic racist worldpowers is an argument that you'll probably only find on the internet. Try to speak that out loud in a room of actual reasonable people. What does the holocaust have to do with all that ? On July 28 2014 08:26 soon.Cloak wrote:On July 28 2014 08:18 EtherealBlade wrote:On July 28 2014 07:47 Nyxisto wrote:On July 28 2014 07:43 kwizach wrote:On July 28 2014 07:31 Nyxisto wrote:On July 28 2014 07:26 WhiteDog wrote:On July 28 2014 06:50 soon.Cloak wrote:[quote] Let me pull a few from here: http://972mag.com/2013-was-a-deadly-year-in-israel-palestine/84728/So we have people trying to cross the border fence (and Israel has no way to tell who is a terrorist and who is innocent, and there have been way more than enough terrorists to justify this fear), people that threw Molotov cocktails at guards, people that threw stones at soldiers, people that were killed, but not by the IDF, etc...So yes, there has been tension, and there have been deaths, but without context of who died why, you can't make any broad accusation. And Israel has eased the blockade over the years, as per the treaty. They eased it in 2010, in 2012, and in 2013. Yes, it is still imperfect, but it has definitely been eased, and is definitely still necessary. And "control most resources/infrastructure" is an interesting way of putting it. Would you like Israel to stop providing Gaza with electricity? Somehow I think that, even if all blockades were lifted, Gaza would not be able to manage. Israel is keeping Gaza alive. I'm for self determination. I prefer that a country control its own water and produce its own electricity than a situation where one people is made dependant on another people, than a situation were one people dominate the other. I'm sure the white afrcaners had the same kind of argument to justify apartheid : we produce their electricity, we give them food and work. Yeah, except for the part where the white people fled to Africa because millions of them got slaughtered on their home-continent, just to again face the threat of extermination by all the black people who collectively declared war on them. Oh Wait that didn't actually happen and comparing Israel to White supremacists is completely moronic. You do know that analogies are there to compare an aspect of two situations and not the two situations in their entirety, right? Did you completely miss the point of what WhiteDog was trying to say? Yes, I do. My point is that it's fucking ridiculous to compare the Israelis who just lost one third of their population to white imperialistic colonists. Sorry that I have no nerve for the tenth "Israel is literally Hitler" analogy. Why is that? Losing "one third" of their population entitles them to something at the Palestinians' expense that the South Africaners had no right to do? Aren't the illegal settlers imperialistic colonists in your opinion? It's the settlement question, actually, that I really would like explained. Yes, I understand that under international law, the '67 conquests of Israel make them considered an occupying power in the West Bank. Got that, fine. But can someone explain the logic of that to me? I was under the impression that if country A attacks country B, and country B conquers some land of country A in that war, that land belongs to country B. Does international law really state that an attacking country that loses land in the war is entitled to the land back after the war? If that were to be true, shouldn't be revert Germany to its pre-WW2 borders? This is untrue in international law. It is forbidden to acquire land through war and annexation. You need acceptance from the home country to acquire any land, and that's why in 1967 the Palestinians agreed to give some land. If you cannot acquire land through war and annexation, how is Israel different than America with Mexico, and the different European countries with Germany, among others? The only difference is international law in fact. Back during the american colonisation there was no or almost no international institutions, and that's why europe colonialized a big part of the world. The "who" is different now because, before this attack, Palestinian had, for the first time in their history, a united autority to negotiate.
And Germany? There weren't many years between '45 and '67...
|
On July 28 2014 08:36 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2014 08:29 WhiteDog wrote:
What does the holocaust have to do with all that ?
The biggest waves of immigration to the middle-east happened during the fourth and fifth Aliyah which were largely results of pogroms in Europe and the Holocaust. So when it comes to the "they're colonists!" argument, I'd say the fact that the Jewish population was basically just fleeing Europe plays a rather large role.
Large role how? Explain what that's supposed to mean to those living in Palestine before 1930. The Islamic / Ottoman world back then was more tolerant towards Judaism than Europe. What noone tolerates is land theft.
|
On July 28 2014 08:37 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2014 08:36 Nyxisto wrote:On July 28 2014 08:29 WhiteDog wrote:
What does the holocaust have to do with all that ?
The biggest waves of immigration to the middle-east happened during the fourth and fifth Aliyah which were largely results of pogroms in Europe and the Holocaust. So when it comes to the "they're colonists!" argument, I'd say the fact that the Jewish population was basically just fleeing Europe plays a rather large role. And what does it have to do with the current situation ? With the settlements ?
Nothing, but EtherealBlade has now repeatedly acted like Israel was founded by some kind of power hungry European superpower, which given the context of how the state came into being, is more than just cynical.
On July 28 2014 08:41 EtherealBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2014 08:36 Nyxisto wrote:On July 28 2014 08:29 WhiteDog wrote:
What does the holocaust have to do with all that ?
The biggest waves of immigration to the middle-east happened during the fourth and fifth Aliyah which were largely results of pogroms in Europe and the Holocaust. So when it comes to the "they're colonists!" argument, I'd say the fact that the Jewish population was basically just fleeing Europe plays a rather large role. Large role how? Explain what that's supposed to mean to those living in Palestine before 1930. The Islamic / Ottoman world back then was more tolerant towards Judaism than Europe. What noone tolerates is land theft.
Before 1930 the territory was under British control, and after some skirmishes between Brits and Zionists, the UK agreed that Israel could have it's state. It was also brought up several times in this thread,but whatever: After WW II the Israelis aswell as the UN agreed to a reasonable two state solution. It was the Arab World that didn't agree and started the Arab-Israeli war two days later.
|
On July 28 2014 08:43 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2014 08:37 WhiteDog wrote:On July 28 2014 08:36 Nyxisto wrote:On July 28 2014 08:29 WhiteDog wrote:
What does the holocaust have to do with all that ?
The biggest waves of immigration to the middle-east happened during the fourth and fifth Aliyah which were largely results of pogroms in Europe and the Holocaust. So when it comes to the "they're colonists!" argument, I'd say the fact that the Jewish population was basically just fleeing Europe plays a rather large role. And what does it have to do with the current situation ? With the settlements ? Nothing, but EtherealBlade has now repeatedly acted like Israel was founded by some kind of power hungry European superpower, which given the context of how the state came into being, is more than just cynical. Show nested quote +On July 28 2014 08:41 EtherealBlade wrote:On July 28 2014 08:36 Nyxisto wrote:On July 28 2014 08:29 WhiteDog wrote:
What does the holocaust have to do with all that ?
The biggest waves of immigration to the middle-east happened during the fourth and fifth Aliyah which were largely results of pogroms in Europe and the Holocaust. So when it comes to the "they're colonists!" argument, I'd say the fact that the Jewish population was basically just fleeing Europe plays a rather large role. Large role how? Explain what that's supposed to mean to those living in Palestine before 1930. The Islamic / Ottoman world back then was more tolerant towards Judaism than Europe. What noone tolerates is land theft. Before 1930 the territory was under British control, and after some skirmishes between Brits and Zionists, the UK agreed that Israel could have it's state. It was also brought up several times in this thread,but whatever: After WW II the Israelis aswell as the UN agreed to a reasonable two state solution. It was the Arab World that didn't agree and started the Arab-Israeli war two days later.
And what is the point of this history course ? Why would the Arabs would have accepted the jewish state on their land ? It is colonialism, and excuse of the holocaust does not change that...
Or do you consider that the palestinians are somewhat responsible for the holocaust and should pay for it ?
|
On July 28 2014 08:51 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2014 08:43 Nyxisto wrote:On July 28 2014 08:37 WhiteDog wrote:On July 28 2014 08:36 Nyxisto wrote:On July 28 2014 08:29 WhiteDog wrote:
What does the holocaust have to do with all that ?
The biggest waves of immigration to the middle-east happened during the fourth and fifth Aliyah which were largely results of pogroms in Europe and the Holocaust. So when it comes to the "they're colonists!" argument, I'd say the fact that the Jewish population was basically just fleeing Europe plays a rather large role. And what does it have to do with the current situation ? With the settlements ? Nothing, but EtherealBlade has now repeatedly acted like Israel was founded by some kind of power hungry European superpower, which given the context of how the state came into being, is more than just cynical. On July 28 2014 08:41 EtherealBlade wrote:On July 28 2014 08:36 Nyxisto wrote:On July 28 2014 08:29 WhiteDog wrote:
What does the holocaust have to do with all that ?
The biggest waves of immigration to the middle-east happened during the fourth and fifth Aliyah which were largely results of pogroms in Europe and the Holocaust. So when it comes to the "they're colonists!" argument, I'd say the fact that the Jewish population was basically just fleeing Europe plays a rather large role. Large role how? Explain what that's supposed to mean to those living in Palestine before 1930. The Islamic / Ottoman world back then was more tolerant towards Judaism than Europe. What noone tolerates is land theft. Before 1930 the territory was under British control, and after some skirmishes between Brits and Zionists, the UK agreed that Israel could have it's state. It was also brought up several times in this thread,but whatever: After WW II the Israelis aswell as the UN agreed to a reasonable two state solution. It was the Arab World that didn't agree and started the Arab-Israeli war two days later. And what is the point of this history course ? Why would the Arabs would have accepted the jewish state on their land ? It is colonialism, and excuse of the holocaust does not change that...
By that logic I can now simply claim that it is now a Jewish state and why would they accept a Muslim state on their territory? The way you're talking it sounds like you're denying Israel the right to exist altogether. If the Arab World thinks it's a good idea to go down the law of the jungle route every 20 years and they get screwed everytime, how is that Israels problem?
The point is that Arabs and Jews could have lived peacefully together. It's the ideological fanaticism of the Arab world that has made coexistence with minorities in the region impossible. Not just in the Israel-Palestine region.
|
On July 28 2014 08:57 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2014 08:51 WhiteDog wrote:On July 28 2014 08:43 Nyxisto wrote:On July 28 2014 08:37 WhiteDog wrote:On July 28 2014 08:36 Nyxisto wrote:On July 28 2014 08:29 WhiteDog wrote:
What does the holocaust have to do with all that ?
The biggest waves of immigration to the middle-east happened during the fourth and fifth Aliyah which were largely results of pogroms in Europe and the Holocaust. So when it comes to the "they're colonists!" argument, I'd say the fact that the Jewish population was basically just fleeing Europe plays a rather large role. And what does it have to do with the current situation ? With the settlements ? Nothing, but EtherealBlade has now repeatedly acted like Israel was founded by some kind of power hungry European superpower, which given the context of how the state came into being, is more than just cynical. On July 28 2014 08:41 EtherealBlade wrote:On July 28 2014 08:36 Nyxisto wrote:On July 28 2014 08:29 WhiteDog wrote:
What does the holocaust have to do with all that ?
The biggest waves of immigration to the middle-east happened during the fourth and fifth Aliyah which were largely results of pogroms in Europe and the Holocaust. So when it comes to the "they're colonists!" argument, I'd say the fact that the Jewish population was basically just fleeing Europe plays a rather large role. Large role how? Explain what that's supposed to mean to those living in Palestine before 1930. The Islamic / Ottoman world back then was more tolerant towards Judaism than Europe. What noone tolerates is land theft. Before 1930 the territory was under British control, and after some skirmishes between Brits and Zionists, the UK agreed that Israel could have it's state. It was also brought up several times in this thread,but whatever: After WW II the Israelis aswell as the UN agreed to a reasonable two state solution. It was the Arab World that didn't agree and started the Arab-Israeli war two days later. And what is the point of this history course ? Why would the Arabs would have accepted the jewish state on their land ? It is colonialism, and excuse of the holocaust does not change that... By that logic I can now simply claim that it is now a Jewish state and why would they accept a Muslim state on their territory? The way you're talking it sounds like you're denying Israel the right to exist altogether.
There is a Jewish state, that we all consider legitimate, and there are palestinians land, that don't belong to Israel.
Now it doesn't change the fact that what constitued Israel at first was colonialism, just like the US (quite a beautiful country) and in fact most of the countries in the world. The problem is that we changed, we decided to strive for stability, with the international court of law, the United Nation, with the desire for each countries to have self determination, and for borders to last. This was done because colonialism is / was a wrong thing (amongst other reasons), that goes with massacre, assassinations, oppression, repression. Do you disagree ?
If you are for the one state solution, with annexation of the entirety of the palestinian lands, with equal right for arabs and jew in what would be called Israel, why not if Israeli and Palestinian have the desire for it ? But you know Israeli far right is against that, because they want an entirely jewish state, which de facto mean a majority of jew, and thus ethnical cleansing. Are you for that ?
And what does it have to do with the arab fanatism ? I'm sorry, but that is a racist thing to say. Most of your point of view seems to be motivated on a racial view on the matter, with good jew, surviving from the holocaust, and bad arabs fanatics. What is so fanatic about refusing colonialism ? Do you think that the indians, who got butchered by the settlers in northern america, were fanatics ?
|
On July 28 2014 09:01 WhiteDog wrote:
If you are for the one state solution, with annexation of the entire palestinian lands, with equal right for arabs and jew in what would be called Israel, why not ? But you know Israeli far right is against that, because they want an entirely jewish state, which de facto mean a majority of jew, and thus ethnical cleansing. Are you for that ?
I actually think annexation of the Palestinian lands with equal rights for Arabs and Jews under Israelian government would be the most reasonable and realistical thing right now. Maybe give them independence in 20 or 30 years when they're de-radicalised and de-militarized. Actually Israel already is the mini-version of this. 20% of Israelis are Arab Muslims. 10% of the Knesset seats are held by Arabs. I don't get this portrayal of Israel as a racist country at all. Even high positions in the IDF have been held by Arabs. There is no government in the middle-east at all that has this kind of minority representation.
edit: I don't think it's racist to say that the Arab World has a very big problem with religious zealots, given what is going on right there I'd say it's a reasonable accurate description. Sure it wasn't 'their problem' when Israeli immigrants fled to the middle-east, but why not just give them the territory the rest of the world seemed to view as acceptable, instead of starting a full fledged war that was going to ruin the region for decades to come?
|
On July 28 2014 09:09 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2014 09:01 WhiteDog wrote:
If you are for the one state solution, with annexation of the entire palestinian lands, with equal right for arabs and jew in what would be called Israel, why not ? But you know Israeli far right is against that, because they want an entirely jewish state, which de facto mean a majority of jew, and thus ethnical cleansing. Are you for that ? I actually think annexation of the Palestinian lands with equal rights for Arabs and Jews under Israelian government would be the most reasonable and realistical thing right now. Maybe give them independence in 20 or 30 years when they're de-radicalised and de-militarized. Actually Israel already is the mini-version of this. 20% of Israelis are Arab Muslims. 10% of the Knesset seats are held by Arabs. I don't get this portrayal of Israel as a racist country at all. Even high positions in the IDF have been held by Arabs. There is no government in the middle-east at all that has this kind of minority representation.
The main problem is the demographic They don't want the right of return, and the annexation today with the people in it, because it would change the demographic, with a majority of Palestinian, which would de facto completly change the politics of Israel : who would vote for a "jewish" government who desire a "jewish state" in a country with a majority of Arabs ?
Arabs have / had three time the natality of jew btw.
|
On July 28 2014 06:00 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2014 05:57 soon.Cloak wrote:On July 28 2014 05:47 WhiteDog wrote:On July 28 2014 05:44 soon.Cloak wrote:On July 28 2014 05:36 WhiteDog wrote:
Do you read my posts ? I gave two different source, one document from the UN, that shows that a high number of Palestinians are dying during peace time and you still cast all that aside. I'm so confused. I responded to every single one of your points, then again in my most recent post, and read the document. What was that document supposed to prove that you don't think I addressed? And again, I'm waiting on your answering the questions I posed. Basically you are saying that 200 rockets launched - by Hamas or someone else - is a sufficient pretexte for war. That's the 1) and I agree, altho I don't think Hamas, and above all the gazans, are responsible for what a minority does (Gaza has no state, so there are dozens of para military groups, some way more radical than Hamas). But at the same time, I give you plenty of evidence that a great number of Palestinians die during peace time under Israeli bullets (750 from 2007 to 2012 putting aside any israeli operation). Why is it that the 200 rocket launched during 2014 makes Hamas the agressor - even if it's not Hamas, and even if it's the gazans and not hamas that pay the price of attack - and not the palestinian civilians who die during peace time everyday under israeli bullets ? That I don't understand. Not to mention the torture, brutalisation, arrestation of people in the West Bank that happen every day. As I said before- even if the rockets aren't from Hamas (which I still disagree one), if Hamas does not condemn the rocket fire, then they are implicitly permitting it. They may not be "responsible", in the sense that they can necessarily do something about it, but the issue is that even if they could, it's clear that they wouldn't. Also, where is that "750" number from? And now we're only going back to 2007, and not to the Second Intifada? Let's say Hamas is responsible for all the rockets for argument sake. The 750 is the number of people that died during peace time from 2007 to 2012 (2500 palestinian died during that time, 2/3 during operation cast lead, which mean more or less 750 during peace). I'm giving you this figure to simply state that since ages palestinians die every day in Gaza under Israeli bullets (and I don't want to count in the intifada because it is a "war"). I could have kept the simple fact that a kid die every three days, but since it takes into account "war" time, you discarded it. So why is it that those murder, those assassination, during peace time, are not pretext enough for launching rockets and does not make Israel the agressor ?
Sorry for quoting something from a few pages back - are you saying that there is justification for shooting rockets at civilians? I have to understand what you mean here.
|
On July 28 2014 09:17 RezJ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2014 06:00 WhiteDog wrote:On July 28 2014 05:57 soon.Cloak wrote:On July 28 2014 05:47 WhiteDog wrote:On July 28 2014 05:44 soon.Cloak wrote:On July 28 2014 05:36 WhiteDog wrote:
Do you read my posts ? I gave two different source, one document from the UN, that shows that a high number of Palestinians are dying during peace time and you still cast all that aside. I'm so confused. I responded to every single one of your points, then again in my most recent post, and read the document. What was that document supposed to prove that you don't think I addressed? And again, I'm waiting on your answering the questions I posed. Basically you are saying that 200 rockets launched - by Hamas or someone else - is a sufficient pretexte for war. That's the 1) and I agree, altho I don't think Hamas, and above all the gazans, are responsible for what a minority does (Gaza has no state, so there are dozens of para military groups, some way more radical than Hamas). But at the same time, I give you plenty of evidence that a great number of Palestinians die during peace time under Israeli bullets (750 from 2007 to 2012 putting aside any israeli operation). Why is it that the 200 rocket launched during 2014 makes Hamas the agressor - even if it's not Hamas, and even if it's the gazans and not hamas that pay the price of attack - and not the palestinian civilians who die during peace time everyday under israeli bullets ? That I don't understand. Not to mention the torture, brutalisation, arrestation of people in the West Bank that happen every day. As I said before- even if the rockets aren't from Hamas (which I still disagree one), if Hamas does not condemn the rocket fire, then they are implicitly permitting it. They may not be "responsible", in the sense that they can necessarily do something about it, but the issue is that even if they could, it's clear that they wouldn't. Also, where is that "750" number from? And now we're only going back to 2007, and not to the Second Intifada? Let's say Hamas is responsible for all the rockets for argument sake. The 750 is the number of people that died during peace time from 2007 to 2012 (2500 palestinian died during that time, 2/3 during operation cast lead, which mean more or less 750 during peace). I'm giving you this figure to simply state that since ages palestinians die every day in Gaza under Israeli bullets (and I don't want to count in the intifada because it is a "war"). I could have kept the simple fact that a kid die every three days, but since it takes into account "war" time, you discarded it. So why is it that those murder, those assassination, during peace time, are not pretext enough for launching rockets and does not make Israel the agressor ? Sorry for quoting something from a few pages back - are you saying that there is justification for shooting rockets at civilians? I have to understand what you mean here.
Not justifications, reasons.
It's a crime to attack civilians whatever the reasons are. But you need to comprehend those reasons to prevent that kind of things from repeating themselves.
|
Well, I'm glad we can agree on something.
So you're saying Hamas is not entirely responsible for this ordeal because it is... disorganized...?
BTW, I think it takes quite a bit of coordination to dig this many tunnels into Israel.
|
On July 28 2014 09:30 RezJ wrote:
Well, I'm glad we can agree on something.
So you're saying Hamas is not entirely responsible for this ordeal because it is... disorganized...?
BTW, I think it takes quite a bit of coordination to dig this many tunnels into Israel.
Hamas is a terrorist organisation. Not because it is fighting against Israel, for that it is just a resistance movement, but because it is targetting civilians - might I add just like Israel is a terrorist state, targetting civilians.
But Hamas proved in history that they could keep a truce, that they can be trusted to a certain extent for peace. Gaza has no autority, no police force, no official army. There are a dozen of para military movement that Hamas doesn't directly control, just like Fatah didn't control all Palestinians, so there is a possibility that part of the rocket launched during peace times are not directly Hamas - just like the killing of those three kids before the attacks were not Hamas.
If Hamas is not declaring that it is responsible for the attack, there is a chance that it did not control it.
Edit : the tunnels are most definitly from Hamas, but they are not necessarily all made for malevolant reasons.
|
On July 28 2014 09:34 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2014 09:30 RezJ wrote:
Well, I'm glad we can agree on something.
So you're saying Hamas is not entirely responsible for this ordeal because it is... disorganized...?
BTW, I think it takes quite a bit of coordination to dig this many tunnels into Israel. Hamas is a terrorist organisation. Not because it is fighting against Israel, for that it is just a resistance movement, but because it is targetting civilians - might I add just like Israel is a terrorist state, targetting civilians. But Hamas proved in history that they could keep a truce, that they can be trusted to a certain extent for peace. Gaza has no autority, no police force, no official army. There are a dozen of para military movement that Hamas doesn't directly control, just like Fatah didn't control all Palestinians, so there is a possibility that part of the rocket launched during peace times are not directly Hamas - just like the killing of those three kids before the attacks were not Hamas. If Hamas is not declaring that it is responsible for the attack, there is a chance that it did not control it. Edit : the tunnels are most definitly from Hamas, but they are not necessarily all made for malevolant reasons.
That's a very convenient way to look at things, but when you are titled a "terrorist organization", all other titles become redundant. If this had anything to do with resistance, the IDF would've been Hamas' main target.
It's also very convenient to look at Israel as a terrorist state, say that it's "targeting civilians", throw the latest dead-baby statistics and cry "war crimes". The fact is, if the Israeli government really wanted anything to do with killing Arabs, it would've already wiped the strip out. Are you aware of the population density? Are you aware of the human-shielding, and Hamas' public encouragement of this tactic? Are you aware of the storage of arms and firing of rockets from schools, mosques and hospitals? Are you aware of the missiles found twice in UNRWA schools? Are you aware of the leaflets, radio broadcasts and phone calls made by Israel to warn civilians? Are you aware of Hamas' orders to civilians to disregard Israeli warnings?
And since I know you're gonna bring UN criticism into the equation:
http://www.unwatch.org/site/c.bdKKISNqEmG/b.1518297/k.7483/Human_Rights_Council.htm
Even UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan recognized, in 2005, that the Commission’s “credibility deficit” was “cast[ing] a shadow on the reputation of the United Nations system as a whole.”
(...)
the first Council included nine countries ranked Not Free by the Freedom House survey of political rights and civil liberties. Four of these nine, moreover, were among Freedom House’s “Worst of the Worst” regimes. These four -- China, Cuba, Russia, and Saudi Arabia -- also are among five countries that UN Watch identified, before the May 9, 2006 election, as particular threats to the Council’s legitimacy.
I don't know how any person in their right mind could honestly say Israel is in the wrong here.
Edit: Just in case you are going to counter me with "Israel uses human shields" - there is a difference between *incidents* and *policy*.
|
On July 28 2014 10:03 RezJ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2014 09:34 WhiteDog wrote:On July 28 2014 09:30 RezJ wrote:
Well, I'm glad we can agree on something.
So you're saying Hamas is not entirely responsible for this ordeal because it is... disorganized...?
BTW, I think it takes quite a bit of coordination to dig this many tunnels into Israel. Hamas is a terrorist organisation. Not because it is fighting against Israel, for that it is just a resistance movement, but because it is targetting civilians - might I add just like Israel is a terrorist state, targetting civilians. But Hamas proved in history that they could keep a truce, that they can be trusted to a certain extent for peace. Gaza has no autority, no police force, no official army. There are a dozen of para military movement that Hamas doesn't directly control, just like Fatah didn't control all Palestinians, so there is a possibility that part of the rocket launched during peace times are not directly Hamas - just like the killing of those three kids before the attacks were not Hamas. If Hamas is not declaring that it is responsible for the attack, there is a chance that it did not control it. Edit : the tunnels are most definitly from Hamas, but they are not necessarily all made for malevolant reasons. That's a very convenient way to look at things, but when you are titled a "terrorist organization", all other titles become redundant. If this had anything to do with resistance, the IDF would've been Hamas' main target. It's also very convenient to look at Israel as a terrorist state, say that it's "targeting civilians", throw the latest dead-baby statistics and cry "war crimes". The fact is, if the Israeli government really wanted anything to do with killing Arabs, it would've already wiped the strip out. Are you aware of the population density? Are you aware of the human-shielding, and Hamas' public encouragement of this tactic? Are you aware of the storage of arms and firing of rockets from schools, mosques and hospitals? Are you aware of the missiles found twice in UNRWA schools? Are you aware of the leaflets, radio broadcasts and phone calls made by Israel to warn civilians? Are you aware of Hamas' orders to civilians to disregard Israeli warnings? And since I know you're gonna bring UN criticism into the equation: http://www.unwatch.org/site/c.bdKKISNqEmG/b.1518297/k.7483/Human_Rights_Council.htmShow nested quote +Even UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan recognized, in 2005, that the Commission’s “credibility deficit” was “cast[ing] a shadow on the reputation of the United Nations system as a whole.”
(...)
the first Council included nine countries ranked Not Free by the Freedom House survey of political rights and civil liberties. Four of these nine, moreover, were among Freedom House’s “Worst of the Worst” regimes. These four -- China, Cuba, Russia, and Saudi Arabia -- also are among five countries that UN Watch identified, before the May 9, 2006 election, as particular threats to the Council’s legitimacy. I don't know how any person in their right mind could honestly say Israel is in the wrong here. Edit: Just in case you are going to counter me with "Israel uses human shields" - there is a difference between *incidents* and *policy*.
It is convenient to cry "war crimes"? What else are you supposed to call war crimes, exactly?
With regards to your talking points about how "humanely" Israel is killing hundreds of civilians, see here.
Also, your post has basically nothing to do with what WhiteDog was arguing.
|
On July 28 2014 10:03 RezJ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2014 09:34 WhiteDog wrote:On July 28 2014 09:30 RezJ wrote:
Well, I'm glad we can agree on something.
So you're saying Hamas is not entirely responsible for this ordeal because it is... disorganized...?
BTW, I think it takes quite a bit of coordination to dig this many tunnels into Israel. Hamas is a terrorist organisation. Not because it is fighting against Israel, for that it is just a resistance movement, but because it is targetting civilians - might I add just like Israel is a terrorist state, targetting civilians. But Hamas proved in history that they could keep a truce, that they can be trusted to a certain extent for peace. Gaza has no autority, no police force, no official army. There are a dozen of para military movement that Hamas doesn't directly control, just like Fatah didn't control all Palestinians, so there is a possibility that part of the rocket launched during peace times are not directly Hamas - just like the killing of those three kids before the attacks were not Hamas. If Hamas is not declaring that it is responsible for the attack, there is a chance that it did not control it. Edit : the tunnels are most definitly from Hamas, but they are not necessarily all made for malevolant reasons. That's a very convenient way to look at things, but when you are titled a "terrorist organization", all other titles become redundant. If this had anything to do with resistance, the IDF would've been Hamas' main target. It's also very convenient to look at Israel as a terrorist state, say that it's "targeting civilians", throw the latest dead-baby statistics and cry "war crimes". The fact is, if the Israeli government really wanted anything to do with killing Arabs, it would've already wiped the strip out. Are you aware of the population density? Are you aware of the human-shielding, and Hamas' public encouragement of this tactic? Are you aware of the storage of arms and firing of rockets from schools, mosques and hospitals? Are you aware of the missiles found twice in UNRWA schools? Are you aware of the leaflets, radio broadcasts and phone calls made by Israel to warn civilians? And since I know you're gonna bring UN criticism into the equation: http://www.unwatch.org/site/c.bdKKISNqEmG/b.1518297/k.7483/Human_Rights_Council.htmShow nested quote +Even UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan recognized, in 2005, that the Commission’s “credibility deficit” was “cast[ing] a shadow on the reputation of the United Nations system as a whole.”
(...)
the first Council included nine countries ranked Not Free by the Freedom House survey of political rights and civil liberties. Four of these nine, moreover, were among Freedom House’s “Worst of the Worst” regimes. These four -- China, Cuba, Russia, and Saudi Arabia -- also are among five countries that UN Watch identified, before the May 9, 2006 election, as particular threats to the Council’s legitimacy. I don't know how any person in their right mind could honestly say Israel is in the wrong here.
Israel occupy territories, kill innocent people, they used palestinian civilians as shield many times, they did terrorism in many places of the world killing civilians (in Iran some years ago).
Do you know that even threatening another country with military actions is illegal by international court ? Israel do that every day.
Foreign Policy magazine cites CIA memos from 2007-2008 that the Mossad recruited members of Jundallah terror group to fight against Tehran; U.S. was reportedly furious with Israel and moved to limit joint intelligence programs.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israeli-mossad-agents-posed-as-cia-spies-to-recruit-terrorists-to-fight-against-iran-1.407224
Isn't that state terrorism ?
Look what the Mossad did only in France
France
Cherbourg Project - Operation Noa, the 1969 smuggling of five Sa'ar 3-class missile boats out of Cherbourg.
The alleged killing of Zuheir Mohsen, a pro-Syrian member of the PLO in 1979.[17]
The alleged killing of Atef Bseiso, a top intelligence officer of the PLO in Paris in 1992. French police believe that a team of assassins followed Atef Bseiso from Berlin, where that first team connected with another team to close in on him in front of a Left Bank hotel, where he received three head-shots at point blank range.[18]
The killing of Yehia El-Mashad, the head of the Iraq nuclear weapons program, in 1980.[19]
The killing of Dr. Mahmoud Hamshari, coordinator of the Munich massacre, with an exploding telephone in his Paris apartment in 1972.[16]
The killing of Dr. Basil Al-Kubaissi, who was involved in the Munich massacre, in Paris in 1973.[16]
The killing of Mohammad Boudia, member of the PFLP, in Paris in 1973.[16]
On April 5, 1979, Mossad agents are believed to have triggered an explosion which destroyed 60 percent of components being built in Toulouse for an Iraqi reactor. Although an environmental organization, Groupe des écologistes français, unheard of before this incident, claimed credit for the blast,[20] most French officials discount the claim. The reactor itself was subsequently destroyed by an Israeli air strike in 1981.[20][21]
The Mossad allegedly assisted Morocco's domestic security service in the disappearance of dissident politician Mehdi Ben Barka in 1965
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mossad#United_States
I mean please Israel is not the most diplomatic country in the world.
|
On July 28 2014 10:18 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2014 10:03 RezJ wrote:On July 28 2014 09:34 WhiteDog wrote:On July 28 2014 09:30 RezJ wrote:
Well, I'm glad we can agree on something.
So you're saying Hamas is not entirely responsible for this ordeal because it is... disorganized...?
BTW, I think it takes quite a bit of coordination to dig this many tunnels into Israel. Hamas is a terrorist organisation. Not because it is fighting against Israel, for that it is just a resistance movement, but because it is targetting civilians - might I add just like Israel is a terrorist state, targetting civilians. But Hamas proved in history that they could keep a truce, that they can be trusted to a certain extent for peace. Gaza has no autority, no police force, no official army. There are a dozen of para military movement that Hamas doesn't directly control, just like Fatah didn't control all Palestinians, so there is a possibility that part of the rocket launched during peace times are not directly Hamas - just like the killing of those three kids before the attacks were not Hamas. If Hamas is not declaring that it is responsible for the attack, there is a chance that it did not control it. Edit : the tunnels are most definitly from Hamas, but they are not necessarily all made for malevolant reasons. That's a very convenient way to look at things, but when you are titled a "terrorist organization", all other titles become redundant. If this had anything to do with resistance, the IDF would've been Hamas' main target. It's also very convenient to look at Israel as a terrorist state, say that it's "targeting civilians", throw the latest dead-baby statistics and cry "war crimes". The fact is, if the Israeli government really wanted anything to do with killing Arabs, it would've already wiped the strip out. Are you aware of the population density? Are you aware of the human-shielding, and Hamas' public encouragement of this tactic? Are you aware of the storage of arms and firing of rockets from schools, mosques and hospitals? Are you aware of the missiles found twice in UNRWA schools? Are you aware of the leaflets, radio broadcasts and phone calls made by Israel to warn civilians? And since I know you're gonna bring UN criticism into the equation: http://www.unwatch.org/site/c.bdKKISNqEmG/b.1518297/k.7483/Human_Rights_Council.htmEven UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan recognized, in 2005, that the Commission’s “credibility deficit” was “cast[ing] a shadow on the reputation of the United Nations system as a whole.”
(...)
the first Council included nine countries ranked Not Free by the Freedom House survey of political rights and civil liberties. Four of these nine, moreover, were among Freedom House’s “Worst of the Worst” regimes. These four -- China, Cuba, Russia, and Saudi Arabia -- also are among five countries that UN Watch identified, before the May 9, 2006 election, as particular threats to the Council’s legitimacy. I don't know how any person in their right mind could honestly say Israel is in the wrong here. Israel occupy territories, kill innocent people, they used palestinian civilians as shield many times, they did terrorism in many places of the world killing civilians (in Iran some years ago). Do you know that even threatening another country with military actions is illegal by international court ? Israel do that every day. Show nested quote +Foreign Policy magazine cites CIA memos from 2007-2008 that the Mossad recruited members of Jundallah terror group to fight against Tehran; U.S. was reportedly furious with Israel and moved to limit joint intelligence programs. http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israeli-mossad-agents-posed-as-cia-spies-to-recruit-terrorists-to-fight-against-iran-1.407224Isn't that state terrorism ? Look what the Mossad did only in France Show nested quote +France
Cherbourg Project - Operation Noa, the 1969 smuggling of five Sa'ar 3-class missile boats out of Cherbourg.
The alleged killing of Zuheir Mohsen, a pro-Syrian member of the PLO in 1979.[17]
The alleged killing of Atef Bseiso, a top intelligence officer of the PLO in Paris in 1992. French police believe that a team of assassins followed Atef Bseiso from Berlin, where that first team connected with another team to close in on him in front of a Left Bank hotel, where he received three head-shots at point blank range.[18]
The killing of Yehia El-Mashad, the head of the Iraq nuclear weapons program, in 1980.[19]
The killing of Dr. Mahmoud Hamshari, coordinator of the Munich massacre, with an exploding telephone in his Paris apartment in 1972.[16]
The killing of Dr. Basil Al-Kubaissi, who was involved in the Munich massacre, in Paris in 1973.[16]
The killing of Mohammad Boudia, member of the PFLP, in Paris in 1973.[16]
On April 5, 1979, Mossad agents are believed to have triggered an explosion which destroyed 60 percent of components being built in Toulouse for an Iraqi reactor. Although an environmental organization, Groupe des écologistes français, unheard of before this incident, claimed credit for the blast,[20] most French officials discount the claim. The reactor itself was subsequently destroyed by an Israeli air strike in 1981.[20][21]
The Mossad allegedly assisted Morocco's domestic security service in the disappearance of dissident politician Mehdi Ben Barka in 1965 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mossad#United_StatesI mean please Israel is not the most diplomatic country in the world.
Wow at that list, the French sure love to shelter terrorists and weapon smugglers huh.
|
On July 28 2014 10:44 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2014 10:18 WhiteDog wrote:On July 28 2014 10:03 RezJ wrote:On July 28 2014 09:34 WhiteDog wrote:On July 28 2014 09:30 RezJ wrote:
Well, I'm glad we can agree on something.
So you're saying Hamas is not entirely responsible for this ordeal because it is... disorganized...?
BTW, I think it takes quite a bit of coordination to dig this many tunnels into Israel. Hamas is a terrorist organisation. Not because it is fighting against Israel, for that it is just a resistance movement, but because it is targetting civilians - might I add just like Israel is a terrorist state, targetting civilians. But Hamas proved in history that they could keep a truce, that they can be trusted to a certain extent for peace. Gaza has no autority, no police force, no official army. There are a dozen of para military movement that Hamas doesn't directly control, just like Fatah didn't control all Palestinians, so there is a possibility that part of the rocket launched during peace times are not directly Hamas - just like the killing of those three kids before the attacks were not Hamas. If Hamas is not declaring that it is responsible for the attack, there is a chance that it did not control it. Edit : the tunnels are most definitly from Hamas, but they are not necessarily all made for malevolant reasons. That's a very convenient way to look at things, but when you are titled a "terrorist organization", all other titles become redundant. If this had anything to do with resistance, the IDF would've been Hamas' main target. It's also very convenient to look at Israel as a terrorist state, say that it's "targeting civilians", throw the latest dead-baby statistics and cry "war crimes". The fact is, if the Israeli government really wanted anything to do with killing Arabs, it would've already wiped the strip out. Are you aware of the population density? Are you aware of the human-shielding, and Hamas' public encouragement of this tactic? Are you aware of the storage of arms and firing of rockets from schools, mosques and hospitals? Are you aware of the missiles found twice in UNRWA schools? Are you aware of the leaflets, radio broadcasts and phone calls made by Israel to warn civilians? And since I know you're gonna bring UN criticism into the equation: http://www.unwatch.org/site/c.bdKKISNqEmG/b.1518297/k.7483/Human_Rights_Council.htmEven UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan recognized, in 2005, that the Commission’s “credibility deficit” was “cast[ing] a shadow on the reputation of the United Nations system as a whole.”
(...)
the first Council included nine countries ranked Not Free by the Freedom House survey of political rights and civil liberties. Four of these nine, moreover, were among Freedom House’s “Worst of the Worst” regimes. These four -- China, Cuba, Russia, and Saudi Arabia -- also are among five countries that UN Watch identified, before the May 9, 2006 election, as particular threats to the Council’s legitimacy. I don't know how any person in their right mind could honestly say Israel is in the wrong here. Israel occupy territories, kill innocent people, they used palestinian civilians as shield many times, they did terrorism in many places of the world killing civilians (in Iran some years ago). Do you know that even threatening another country with military actions is illegal by international court ? Israel do that every day. Foreign Policy magazine cites CIA memos from 2007-2008 that the Mossad recruited members of Jundallah terror group to fight against Tehran; U.S. was reportedly furious with Israel and moved to limit joint intelligence programs. http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israeli-mossad-agents-posed-as-cia-spies-to-recruit-terrorists-to-fight-against-iran-1.407224Isn't that state terrorism ? Look what the Mossad did only in France France
Cherbourg Project - Operation Noa, the 1969 smuggling of five Sa'ar 3-class missile boats out of Cherbourg.
The alleged killing of Zuheir Mohsen, a pro-Syrian member of the PLO in 1979.[17]
The alleged killing of Atef Bseiso, a top intelligence officer of the PLO in Paris in 1992. French police believe that a team of assassins followed Atef Bseiso from Berlin, where that first team connected with another team to close in on him in front of a Left Bank hotel, where he received three head-shots at point blank range.[18]
The killing of Yehia El-Mashad, the head of the Iraq nuclear weapons program, in 1980.[19]
The killing of Dr. Mahmoud Hamshari, coordinator of the Munich massacre, with an exploding telephone in his Paris apartment in 1972.[16]
The killing of Dr. Basil Al-Kubaissi, who was involved in the Munich massacre, in Paris in 1973.[16]
The killing of Mohammad Boudia, member of the PFLP, in Paris in 1973.[16]
On April 5, 1979, Mossad agents are believed to have triggered an explosion which destroyed 60 percent of components being built in Toulouse for an Iraqi reactor. Although an environmental organization, Groupe des écologistes français, unheard of before this incident, claimed credit for the blast,[20] most French officials discount the claim. The reactor itself was subsequently destroyed by an Israeli air strike in 1981.[20][21]
The Mossad allegedly assisted Morocco's domestic security service in the disappearance of dissident politician Mehdi Ben Barka in 1965 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mossad#United_StatesI mean please Israel is not the most diplomatic country in the world. Wow at that list, the French sure love to shelter terrorists and weapon smugglers huh.
Some of those people were not terrorist nor weapon smugglers. Google Ben Barka.
|
On July 28 2014 10:53 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2014 10:44 Sub40APM wrote:On July 28 2014 10:18 WhiteDog wrote:On July 28 2014 10:03 RezJ wrote:On July 28 2014 09:34 WhiteDog wrote:On July 28 2014 09:30 RezJ wrote:
Well, I'm glad we can agree on something.
So you're saying Hamas is not entirely responsible for this ordeal because it is... disorganized...?
BTW, I think it takes quite a bit of coordination to dig this many tunnels into Israel. Hamas is a terrorist organisation. Not because it is fighting against Israel, for that it is just a resistance movement, but because it is targetting civilians - might I add just like Israel is a terrorist state, targetting civilians. But Hamas proved in history that they could keep a truce, that they can be trusted to a certain extent for peace. Gaza has no autority, no police force, no official army. There are a dozen of para military movement that Hamas doesn't directly control, just like Fatah didn't control all Palestinians, so there is a possibility that part of the rocket launched during peace times are not directly Hamas - just like the killing of those three kids before the attacks were not Hamas. If Hamas is not declaring that it is responsible for the attack, there is a chance that it did not control it. Edit : the tunnels are most definitly from Hamas, but they are not necessarily all made for malevolant reasons. That's a very convenient way to look at things, but when you are titled a "terrorist organization", all other titles become redundant. If this had anything to do with resistance, the IDF would've been Hamas' main target. It's also very convenient to look at Israel as a terrorist state, say that it's "targeting civilians", throw the latest dead-baby statistics and cry "war crimes". The fact is, if the Israeli government really wanted anything to do with killing Arabs, it would've already wiped the strip out. Are you aware of the population density? Are you aware of the human-shielding, and Hamas' public encouragement of this tactic? Are you aware of the storage of arms and firing of rockets from schools, mosques and hospitals? Are you aware of the missiles found twice in UNRWA schools? Are you aware of the leaflets, radio broadcasts and phone calls made by Israel to warn civilians? And since I know you're gonna bring UN criticism into the equation: http://www.unwatch.org/site/c.bdKKISNqEmG/b.1518297/k.7483/Human_Rights_Council.htmEven UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan recognized, in 2005, that the Commission’s “credibility deficit” was “cast[ing] a shadow on the reputation of the United Nations system as a whole.”
(...)
the first Council included nine countries ranked Not Free by the Freedom House survey of political rights and civil liberties. Four of these nine, moreover, were among Freedom House’s “Worst of the Worst” regimes. These four -- China, Cuba, Russia, and Saudi Arabia -- also are among five countries that UN Watch identified, before the May 9, 2006 election, as particular threats to the Council’s legitimacy. I don't know how any person in their right mind could honestly say Israel is in the wrong here. Israel occupy territories, kill innocent people, they used palestinian civilians as shield many times, they did terrorism in many places of the world killing civilians (in Iran some years ago). Do you know that even threatening another country with military actions is illegal by international court ? Israel do that every day. Foreign Policy magazine cites CIA memos from 2007-2008 that the Mossad recruited members of Jundallah terror group to fight against Tehran; U.S. was reportedly furious with Israel and moved to limit joint intelligence programs. http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israeli-mossad-agents-posed-as-cia-spies-to-recruit-terrorists-to-fight-against-iran-1.407224Isn't that state terrorism ? Look what the Mossad did only in France France
Cherbourg Project - Operation Noa, the 1969 smuggling of five Sa'ar 3-class missile boats out of Cherbourg.
The alleged killing of Zuheir Mohsen, a pro-Syrian member of the PLO in 1979.[17]
The alleged killing of Atef Bseiso, a top intelligence officer of the PLO in Paris in 1992. French police believe that a team of assassins followed Atef Bseiso from Berlin, where that first team connected with another team to close in on him in front of a Left Bank hotel, where he received three head-shots at point blank range.[18]
The killing of Yehia El-Mashad, the head of the Iraq nuclear weapons program, in 1980.[19]
The killing of Dr. Mahmoud Hamshari, coordinator of the Munich massacre, with an exploding telephone in his Paris apartment in 1972.[16]
The killing of Dr. Basil Al-Kubaissi, who was involved in the Munich massacre, in Paris in 1973.[16]
The killing of Mohammad Boudia, member of the PFLP, in Paris in 1973.[16]
On April 5, 1979, Mossad agents are believed to have triggered an explosion which destroyed 60 percent of components being built in Toulouse for an Iraqi reactor. Although an environmental organization, Groupe des écologistes français, unheard of before this incident, claimed credit for the blast,[20] most French officials discount the claim. The reactor itself was subsequently destroyed by an Israeli air strike in 1981.[20][21]
The Mossad allegedly assisted Morocco's domestic security service in the disappearance of dissident politician Mehdi Ben Barka in 1965 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mossad#United_StatesI mean please Israel is not the most diplomatic country in the world. Wow at that list, the French sure love to shelter terrorists and weapon smugglers huh. Some of those people were not terrorist nor weapon smugglers. Google Ben Barka.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehdi_Ben_Barka
Despite countless theories attempting to explain what really happened to him, the exact circumstances of his disappearance have never been established, and as of 2009, investigations are on-going.
And then it lists like 5 different theories...
(In any event, back to work on Monday, won't be around for a bit, but thanks to everyone for the debate.)
|
The current Israeli government is doing nothing to move actual peace talks forward by denying all demands made by the palestine. War means they get re-elected.
Palestine is ruled by a terroristic organisation that will never be able to not fight and does nothing for peace talks by using violence when blocked. War means they have the hearts of the people.
The world does nothing to stop the madness. But at least we all have very strong opinions.
How about we try something new. We let the right-wing politicians, settlers and militaries on one side and the hateful terrorists on the other side fight it out in their desert land, we make sure they don't accidentally use nuclear weapons but part from that, fire away. Nobody needs this land anyway, it's just a shame for all these historical buildings. But eh, there are other nice buildings in sane countries.
Meanwhile we bring all the moderate israelis and plaestineans somewhere else. Germany needs a bigger population anyway, we are slowly dying out here. I am sure we will find room for 12 million former middle-eastern refugees.
|
Why does no one care about the 1,700 people killed in Syria last week, or what's happening in Iraq? Oh right, because it's Muslims killing Muslims. But when it's Jews killing Muslims, we see total outrage, especially in European media and the Muslim world.
Regular people who have no idea what's going on in the world see these "Israel killing scores of Palestinians" headlines all over the place, convincing them that Israelis are Nazis, and then proceeding to post their first ever political post on facebook, not realizing that more people are being killed elsewhere.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
