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Bullshit Jobs

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urboss
Profile Joined September 2013
Austria1223 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-29 06:39:38
June 28 2014 12:59 GMT
#1
The anthropologist David Graeber coined the term "Bullshit Jobs" in an essay one year ago. He also recently did an interview with Salon, so I thought it might be a good opportunity to discuss the issue which I find quite interesting.


The essence of his essay is the following:

Even though most manual labor has been automated, people are still working the same amount of time as 100 years ago.
Most of nowadays jobs are made-up bullshit jobs no one actually needs.

[image loading]


"In the year 1930, John Maynard Keynes predicted that, by century’s end, technology would have advanced sufficiently that we would have achieved a 15-hour work week. There’s every reason to believe he was right. In technological terms, we are quite capable of this. And yet it didn’t happen. Instead, technology has been marshalled, if anything, to figure out ways to make us all work more. In order to achieve this, jobs have had to be created that are, effectively, pointless. Huge swathes of people, in Europe and North America in particular, spend their entire working lives performing tasks they secretly believe do not really need to be performed. The moral and spiritual damage that comes from this situation is profound. It is a scar across our collective soul. Yet virtually no one talks about it."

"So what are these new jobs, precisely? A recent report comparing employment in the US between 1910 and 2000 gives us a clear picture. Over the course of the last century, the number of workers employed as domestic servants, in industry, and in the farm sector has collapsed dramatically. At the same time, “professional, managerial, clerical, sales, and service workers” tripled, growing “from one-quarter to three-quarters of total employment.” In other words, productive jobs have, just as predicted, been largely automated away."

"But rather than allowing a massive reduction of working hours to free the world’s population to pursue their own projects, pleasures, visions, and ideas, we have seen the ballooning not even so much of the “service” sector as of the administrative sector, up to and including the creation of whole new industries like financial services or telemarketing, or the unprecedented expansion of sectors like corporate law, academic and health administration, human resources, and public relations. And these numbers do not even reflect on all those people whose job is to provide administrative, technical, or security support for these industries, or for that matter the whole host of ancillary industries (dog-washers, all-night pizza deliverymen) that only exist because everyone else is spending so much of their time working in all the other ones.

These are what I propose to call 'bullshit jobs'.

It’s as if someone were out there making up pointless jobs just for the sake of keeping us all working. And here, precisely, lies the mystery. In capitalism, this is precisely what is not supposed to happen..." - David Graeber


The complete essay:

+ Show Spoiler +
ON THE PHENOMENON OF BULLSHIT JOBS


In the year 1930, John Maynard Keynes predicted that, by century’s end, technology would have advanced sufficiently that countries like Great Britain or the United States would have achieved a 15-hour work week. There’s every reason to believe he was right. In technological terms, we are quite capable of this. And yet it didn’t happen. Instead, technology has been marshaled, if anything, to figure out ways to make us all work more. In order to achieve this, jobs have had to be created that are, effectively, pointless. Huge swathes of people, in Europe and North America in particular, spend their entire working lives performing tasks they secretly believe do not really need to be performed. The moral and spiritual damage that comes from this situation is profound. It is a scar across our collective soul. Yet virtually no one talks about it.

Why did Keynes’ promised utopia – still being eagerly awaited in the ‘60s – never materialise? The standard line today is that he didn’t figure in the massive increase in consumerism. Given the choice between less hours and more toys and pleasures, we’ve collectively chosen the latter. This presents a nice morality tale, but even a moment’s reflection shows it can’t really be true. Yes, we have witnessed the creation of an endless variety of new jobs and industries since the ‘20s, but very few have anything to do with the production and distribution of sushi, iPhones, or fancy sneakers.

So what are these new jobs, precisely? A recent report comparing employment in the US between 1910 and 2000 gives us a clear picture (and I note, one pretty much exactly echoed in the UK). Over the course of the last century, the number of workers employed as domestic servants, in industry, and in the farm sector has collapsed dramatically. At the same time, “professional, managerial, clerical, sales, and service workers” tripled, growing “from one-quarter to three-quarters of total employment.” In other words, productive jobs have, just as predicted, been largely automated away (even if you count industrial workers globally, including the toiling masses in India and China, such workers are still not nearly so large a percentage of the world population as they used to be).

But rather than allowing a massive reduction of working hours to free the world’s population to pursue their own projects, pleasures, visions, and ideas, we have seen the ballooning not even so much of the “service” sector as of the administrative sector, up to and including the creation of whole new industries like financial services or telemarketing, or the unprecedented expansion of sectors like corporate law, academic and health administration, human resources, and public relations. And these numbers do not even reflect on all those people whose job is to provide administrative, technical, or security support for these industries, or for that matter the whole host of ancillary industries (dog-washers, all-night pizza deliverymen) that only exist because everyone else is spending so much of their time working in all the other ones.

These are what I propose to call “bullshit jobs.”

While corporations may engage in ruthless downsizing, the layoffs and speed-ups invariably fall on that class of people who are actually making, moving, fixing and maintaining things; through some strange alchemy no one can quite explain, the number of salaried paper-pushers ultimately seems to expand, and more and more employees find themselves, not unlike Soviet workers actually, working 40 or even 50 hour weeks on paper, but effectively working 15 hours just as Keynes predicted, since the rest of their time is spent organising or attending motivational seminars, updating their facebook profiles or downloading TV box-sets.

The answer clearly isn’t economic: it’s moral and political. The ruling class has figured out that a happy and productive population with free time on their hands is a mortal danger (think of what started to happen when this even began to be approximated in the ‘60s). And, on the other hand, the feeling that work is a moral value in itself, and that anyone not willing to submit themselves to some kind of intense work discipline for most of their waking hours deserves nothing, is extraordinarily convenient for them.

Once, when contemplating the apparently endless growth of administrative responsibilities in British academic departments, I came up with one possible vision of hell. Hell is a collection of individuals who are spending the bulk of their time working on a task they don’t like and are not especially good at. Say they were hired because they were excellent cabinet-makers, and then discover they are expected to spend a great deal of their time frying fish. Neither does the task really need to be done – at least, there’s only a very limited number of fish that need to be fried. Yet somehow, they all become so obsessed with resentment at the thought that some of their co-workers might be spending more time making cabinets, and not doing their fair share of the fish-frying responsibilities, that before long there’s endless piles of useless badly cooked fish piling up all over the workshop and it’s all that anyone really does.

I think this is actually a pretty accurate description of the moral dynamics of our own economy.

Now, I realise any such argument is going to run into immediate objections: “who are you to say what jobs are really ‘necessary’? What’s necessary anyway? You’re an anthropology professor, what’s the ‘need’ for that?” (And indeed a lot of tabloid readers would take the existence of my job as the very definition of wasteful social expenditure.) And on one level, this is obviously true. There can be no objective measure of social value.

I would not presume to tell someone who is convinced they are making a meaningful contribution to the world that, really, they are not. But what about those people who are themselves convinced their jobs are meaningless? Not long ago I got back in touch with a school friend who I hadn’t seen since I was 12. I was amazed to discover that in the interim, he had become first a poet, then the front man in an indie rock band. I’d heard some of his songs on the radio having no idea the singer was someone I actually knew. He was obviously brilliant, innovative, and his work had unquestionably brightened and improved the lives of people all over the world. Yet, after a couple of unsuccessful albums, he’d lost his contract, and plagued with debts and a newborn daughter, ended up, as he put it, “taking the default choice of so many directionless folk: law school.” Now he’s a corporate lawyer working in a prominent New York firm. He was the first to admit that his job was utterly meaningless, contributed nothing to the world, and, in his own estimation, should not really exist.

There’s a lot of questions one could ask here, starting with, what does it say about our society that it seems to generate an extremely limited demand for talented poet-musicians, but an apparently infinite demand for specialists in corporate law? (Answer: if 1% of the population controls most of the disposable wealth, what we call “the market” reflects what they think is useful or important, not anybody else.) But even more, it shows that most people in these jobs are ultimately aware of it. In fact, I’m not sure I’ve ever met a corporate lawyer who didn’t think their job was bullshit. The same goes for almost all the new industries outlined above. There is a whole class of salaried professionals that, should you meet them at parties and admit that you do something that might be considered interesting (an anthropologist, for example), will want to avoid even discussing their line of work entirely. Give them a few drinks, and they will launch into tirades about how pointless and stupid their job really is.

This is a profound psychological violence here. How can one even begin to speak of dignity in labour when one secretly feels one’s job should not exist? How can it not create a sense of deep rage and resentment. Yet it is the peculiar genius of our society that its rulers have figured out a way, as in the case of the fish-fryers, to ensure that rage is directed precisely against those who actually do get to do meaningful work. For instance: in our society, there seems a general rule that, the more obviously one’s work benefits other people, the less one is likely to be paid for it. Again, an objective measure is hard to find, but one easy way to get a sense is to ask: what would happen were this entire class of people to simply disappear? Say what you like about nurses, garbage collectors, or mechanics, it’s obvious that were they to vanish in a puff of smoke, the results would be immediate and catastrophic. A world without teachers or dock-workers would soon be in trouble, and even one without science fiction writers or ska musicians would clearly be a lesser place. It’s not entirely clear how humanity would suffer were all private equity CEOs, lobbyists, PR researchers, actuaries, telemarketers, bailiffs or legal consultants to similarly vanish. (Many suspect it might markedly improve.) Yet apart from a handful of well-touted exceptions (doctors), the rule holds surprisingly well.

Even more perverse, there seems to be a broad sense that this is the way things should be. This is one of the secret strengths of right-wing populism. You can see it when tabloids whip up resentment against tube workers for paralysing London during contract disputes: the very fact that tube workers can paralyse London shows that their work is actually necessary, but this seems to be precisely what annoys people. It’s even clearer in the US, where Republicans have had remarkable success mobilizing resentment against school teachers, or auto workers (and not, significantly, against the school administrators or auto industry managers who actually cause the problems) for their supposedly bloated wages and benefits. It’s as if they are being told “but you get to teach children! Or make cars! You get to have real jobs! And on top of that you have the nerve to also expect middle-class pensions and health care?”

If someone had designed a work regime perfectly suited to maintaining the power of finance capital, it’s hard to see how they could have done a better job. Real, productive workers are relentlessly squeezed and exploited. The remainder are divided between a terrorised stratum of the, universally reviled, unemployed and a larger stratum who are basically paid to do nothing, in positions designed to make them identify with the perspectives and sensibilities of the ruling class (managers, administrators, etc) – and particularly its financial avatars – but, at the same time, foster a simmering resentment against anyone whose work has clear and undeniable social value. Clearly, the system was never consciously designed. It emerged from almost a century of trial and error. But it is the only explanation for why, despite our technological capacities, we are not all working 3-4 hour days.


David Graeber is a Professor of Anthropology at the London School of Economics.

The essay was published in Strike Magazine in August 2013.
http://issuu.com/strikemagyo/docs/strike_3_forissu





+ Show Spoiler +
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+ Show Spoiler +
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+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


It would be interesting to discuss this.
There are many angles to approach it.

Do you agree with his views?

Why are we having so many jobs no one truly needs nowadays?

Can we change things to get rid of those useless jobs?
hellokitty[hk]
Profile Joined June 2009
United States1309 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-28 13:14:12
June 28 2014 13:13 GMT
#2
Because esports duh.
15 hours a day and nothing to show for it except carbon monoxide.
People are imbeciles, lucky thing god made cats.
Jormundr
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1678 Posts
June 28 2014 13:14 GMT
#3
You really like this article, don't you?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/449888-the-year-2050?page=6#105
Capitalism is beneficial for people who work harder than other people. Under capitalism the only way to make more money is to work harder then your competitors whether they be other companies or workers. ~ Vegetarian
urboss
Profile Joined September 2013
Austria1223 Posts
June 28 2014 13:19 GMT
#4
Yes, because it raises a question no one has quite managed to answer so far.
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5281 Posts
June 28 2014 13:44 GMT
#5
so you'd rather have billions of people left to their pleasures and ideas?.
i don't know man, right now, i'd fear that.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12375 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-28 13:49:54
June 28 2014 13:48 GMT
#6
I think the author has a very poor concept of jobs.
What IS the unnecessary job that he is talking about?
If he is talking about finance then he obviously has little knowledge of it.
Technology enabled us to be more productive, it's not meant to make our life easily.
They are tools to assist us.
What's wrong about service sector?

I don't understand where did this unrealistic view of less work means less working hours come from.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
RenSC2
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States1056 Posts
June 28 2014 14:05 GMT
#7
Most jobs that are now considered classic jobs were once upon a time considered bullshit jobs. If a man wasn't out there hunting/fighting, he wasn't actually needed. But some people liked the comforts of living in a house rather than a cave. Some people liked eating with utensils rather than their hands. Some people liked the beginnings of medicine and the way it could extend the average lifespan and thus people would dedicate their lives to that practice in exchange for having their basic needs taken care of by others.

None of those jobs were actually needed, but they made things a little nicer.

Jumping forward a few millennia, machinery has replaced a large portion of manual labor. So we throw that labor force into service. That service provides something that people or corporations want. You may hate telemarketers, but those telemarketers sell enough widgets/services to warrant their existence or else capitalism would make the job extinct.

We've also introduced a number of inefficiencies with the increased "bullshit" workforce, but that only exists because we demand more. Governments and regular people demand extreme adherence to laws by corporations while the corporations try to find ways to get an edge on their competition. Thus, corporate law booms. Certain tort reform could almost instantly put a lot of lawyers out of business, but that wouldn't do a whole lot to "bullshit" jobs in general. Those lawyers would find a new niche to fill using their reasonably good academic skills and continue to push the "bullshit" jobs forward.

I could go on with more examples, but I think the point is made. New jobs are no more "bullshit" than many of the jobs we take for granted. They all serve the purpose of making our lives better in some way... even if they don't always get things right.
Playing better than standard requires deviation. This divergence usually results in sub-standard play.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
June 28 2014 14:36 GMT
#8
In addition to ETisME's and RenSC2's comments i would like to add that there are instances where 15hour weeks (even if they were techincally possible to achieve) would create more problems and reduce efficency. For example if there is a corporation that sells any service where they need to be able to be contacted 24/7 having five people work for 50h/week is definitely more efficent than having twelve people work for 14h/week just because the addition of shift changes means you pretty much HAVE TO do way way more administrative stuff like briefing the next person to the situation etc etc.

Also there are a lot of people who want service for different reasons. Yes, probably nearly all the people could fix a car, a computer, wash their dog, go grab their pizzas themselves or whatever in case they REALLY wanted to do that / learn to do that. But is it more efficent to learn how to do something / do something you are "bad at" in case you can do what you are good at - get paid for it and let someone else do the things you are not good at or don't want to "waste" your time on. You would probaby lose way more money that way than paying for the stuff you are not good at and focusing on your profession.
table for two on a tv tray
itsjustatank
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Hong Kong9153 Posts
June 28 2014 14:49 GMT
#9
If they truly were worthless jobs, they wouldn't exist. You can look down at others from an ivory tower pretty damn easily, though.
Photographer"nosotros estamos backamos" - setsuko
nimbim
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany983 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-28 14:58:13
June 28 2014 14:53 GMT
#10
The average work hours are just the symptom of the working class being exploited, as they have always been. With the amount of unemployed people and money that goes to already rich people we could easily have 2-3 workdays for everyone with almost 0 unemployment. Capitalism yo

I don't think there are many pointless jobs, just the way we see labour is inherently flawed.
urboss
Profile Joined September 2013
Austria1223 Posts
June 28 2014 15:03 GMT
#11
On June 28 2014 23:49 itsjustatank wrote:
If they truly were worthless jobs, they wouldn't exist. You can look down at others from an ivory tower pretty damn easily, though.

Indeed, these jobs do exist because there is a need for them.
Now why is there a need for them?
Because there is an interwoven set of "bloated bullshit systems" that creates the need.

Examples for such systems are:
Finance
Insurance
Corporate Law
Analytics
Middle Management
etc...

I'm not saying that these systems are useless.
It is their bloated state that is unnecessary and creates all the bullshit jobs.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
June 28 2014 15:05 GMT
#12
he prob chose this provocative word just to be provocative and bring attention to the quality of life associated with the job. in general with social critics you have to get into the collective action mood, and see things as "is this the world we want". now this sort of view does not always translate to reality either in description or in prescription but it's valuable as a way of generating ideals and goals.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
phil.ipp
Profile Joined May 2010
Austria1067 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-28 15:12:57
June 28 2014 15:08 GMT
#13
On June 28 2014 22:48 ETisME wrote:
Technology enabled us to be more productive, it's not meant to make our life easily.
They are tools to assist us.


em what?!?!?
you say that like its some kind of law from a higher autority
the reason is exactly that our life gets easier.
they are tools to assist us, in making our life easier !

now we live in a fucked up system, where we actually have to work against everything that makes our life easier. cause life getting easier means in our system .- less pay or even jobless, which leads to poverty.

and bullshit job doesnt mean we dont need someone to do the job.
it means a machine or computer could do it much more effizient, but the industry doesnt want to invest in the technology cause human working hours are cheaper

there are a lot of jobs where you could say, technology could do this all better and faster. but to create the infrastructur for it would cost a lot and in particular the goverment doesnt have the money for things like that, they just let it go on as it is.

also it would not look good if a goverment investing millions in making people jobless
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
June 28 2014 15:13 GMT
#14
phil.ipp what are those jobs you are talking about? Could you give some examples?
table for two on a tv tray
DonKey_
Profile Joined May 2010
Liechtenstein1356 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-28 15:14:46
June 28 2014 15:14 GMT
#15
What will be interesting is how in the next 2 decades the service industry is going to be completely automated, of course the truck drivers are going to feel it first.
Unemployment is a future many are going to live; could be good or bad depending on whether the benefits of technology get shared or not.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
urboss
Profile Joined September 2013
Austria1223 Posts
June 28 2014 15:14 GMT
#16
from the interview:

"When I talk about bullshit jobs, I mean, the kind of jobs that even those who work them feel do not really need to exist. A lot of them are made-up middle management, you know, I’m the “East Coast strategic vision coordinator” for some big firm, which basically means you spend all your time at meetings or forming teams that then send reports to one another. Or someone who works in an industry that they feel doesn’t need to exist, like most of the corporate lawyers I know, or telemarketers, or lobbyists…. Just think of when you walk into a hospital, how half the employees never seem to do anything for sick people, but are just filling out insurance forms and sending information to each other. Some of that work obviously does need to be done, but for the most part, everyone working there knows what really needs to get done and that the remaining 90 percent of what they do is bullshit. And then think about the ancillary workers that support people doing the bullshit jobs: here’s an office where people basically translate German formatted paperwork into British formatted paperwork or some such, and there has to be a whole infrastructure of receptionists, janitors, security guards, computer maintenance people, which are kind of second-order bullshit jobs, they’re actually doing something, but they’re doing it to support people who are doing nothing."
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
June 28 2014 15:18 GMT
#17
On June 28 2014 22:48 ETisME wrote:
I think the author has a very poor concept of jobs.
What IS the unnecessary job that he is talking about?
If he is talking about finance then he obviously has little knowledge of it.
Technology enabled us to be more productive, it's not meant to make our life easily.
They are tools to assist us.
What's wrong about service sector?

I don't understand where did this unrealistic view of less work means less working hours come from.

pretty much this. Technology can make life easier but it doesn't necessarily eliminate the job or anything like that. Also, he's talking about working less time, 15 hours a week and such so that you can pursue your hobbies, dreams etc... Problem is that everything costs money. Working less means less income (unless salary is adjusted) so you are essentially destroying your own dreams as a result.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
phil.ipp
Profile Joined May 2010
Austria1067 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-28 15:25:51
June 28 2014 15:23 GMT
#18
On June 29 2014 00:18 BigFan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2014 22:48 ETisME wrote:
I think the author has a very poor concept of jobs.
What IS the unnecessary job that he is talking about?
If he is talking about finance then he obviously has little knowledge of it.
Technology enabled us to be more productive, it's not meant to make our life easily.
They are tools to assist us.
What's wrong about service sector?

I don't understand where did this unrealistic view of less work means less working hours come from.

pretty much this. Technology can make life easier but it doesn't necessarily eliminate the job or anything like that. Also, he's talking about working less time, 15 hours a week and such so that you can pursue your hobbies, dreams etc... Problem is that everything costs money. Working less means less income (unless salary is adjusted) so you are essentially destroying your own dreams as a result.


thats exactly the reason for the article, the system has to be changed

as it is now invention of technology that makes life easier means, people are jobless and this leads to poverty
we counter this problem with inventing new jobs that are just administrativ jobs to regulate other jobs or work

the US produces 700.000 new graduates in the Law sector every year think about it

so lets change this system .. we created it in the first place and it was good for bringing us to where we are now BUT it doesnt have to stay this way

open your minds a little bit.
itsjustatank
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Hong Kong9153 Posts
June 28 2014 15:26 GMT
#19
How exactly are you going to 'change' the system. I will posit that this article is bullshit worthless ivory tower elitism unless you can articulate a world beyond capitalism and a way to attain it that isn't simply 'rethink the world' or 'change.'

Honestly, I can probably replace the essay with random gibberish generated by the Dada engine and attain the same result.
Photographer"nosotros estamos backamos" - setsuko
Jormundr
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1678 Posts
June 28 2014 15:30 GMT
#20
On June 29 2014 00:26 itsjustatank wrote:
How exactly are you going to 'change' the system. I will posit that this article is bullshit worthless ivory tower elitism unless you can articulate a world beyond capitalism and a way to attain it that isn't simply 'rethink the world' or 'change.'

Honestly, I can probably replace the essay with random gibberish generated by the Dada engine and attain the same result.

Pretty sure you need to open your mind.
Capitalism is beneficial for people who work harder than other people. Under capitalism the only way to make more money is to work harder then your competitors whether they be other companies or workers. ~ Vegetarian
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