Here's the kicker; the Democrats have enough votes to pass a Clean Resolution. Basically a law with no pork, just raising the debt ceiling with no concessions. The issue is that the only person that can bring the bill to the floor is Republican House Speaker John Boehner.
Am I understanding it correctly that a procedural rule made it's way through (coincidentally on October 1st) that put the power over said Clean Resolution in the hands of one single person or am I misunderstanding something?
e: In addition assuming the above is correct the only way to change that (through a motion) would have to be offered by the majority leader or his designee aka only the dictator may undictator himself? :3
Is this scenario really happening?
Yes, that scenario is really happening. That's why a bunch of republicans are blaming it on the speaker, and most people are blaming it on the republicans as a whole. If they would allow it to come to a vote, it's quite clear the resolution to open the government would pass. As you say, only the dictator may undictator himself.
Here's the kicker; the Democrats have enough votes to pass a Clean Resolution. Basically a law with no pork, just raising the debt ceiling with no concessions. The issue is that the only person that can bring the bill to the floor is Republican House Speaker John Boehner.
Am I understanding it correctly that a procedural rule made it's way through (coincidentally on October 1st) that put the power over said Clean Resolution in the hands of one single person or am I misunderstanding something?
e: In addition assuming the above is correct the only way to change that (through a motion) would have to be offered by the majority leader or his designee aka only the dictator may undictator himself? :3
Is this scenario really happening?
The truly amazing thing is that that video indicates that it is NOT the Speaker, who is the ranking member of the majority party, but instead the majority leader (Eric Cantor, the number two republican in the House) who the rule change gave power to concerning the CR.
This makes sense when you consider how many Republicans (mostly Tea Party repubs) feel the Speaker is weak (in that he is willing to negotiate or not hold the line.)
Here's the kicker; the Democrats have enough votes to pass a Clean Resolution. Basically a law with no pork, just raising the debt ceiling with no concessions. The issue is that the only person that can bring the bill to the floor is Republican House Speaker John Boehner.
Am I understanding it correctly that a procedural rule made it's way through (coincidentally on October 1st) that put the power over said Clean Resolution in the hands of one single person or am I misunderstanding something?
e: In addition assuming the above is correct the only way to change that (through a motion) would have to be offered by the majority leader or his designee aka only the dictator may undictator himself? :3
Is this scenario really happening?
The truly amazing thing is that that video indicates that it is NOT the Speaker, who is the ranking member of the majority party, but instead the majority leader (Eric Cantor, the number two republican in the House) who the rule change gave power to concerning the CR.
This makes sense when you consider how many Republicans (mostly Tea Party repubs) feel the Speaker is weak (in that he is willing to negotiate or not hold the line.)
So it's not Crocodile but Mr. 1 who has this power...
Here's the kicker; the Democrats have enough votes to pass a Clean Resolution. Basically a law with no pork, just raising the debt ceiling with no concessions. The issue is that the only person that can bring the bill to the floor is Republican House Speaker John Boehner.
Am I understanding it correctly that a procedural rule made it's way through (coincidentally on October 1st) that put the power over said Clean Resolution in the hands of one single person or am I misunderstanding something?
e: In addition assuming the above is correct the only way to change that (through a motion) would have to be offered by the majority leader or his designee aka only the dictator may undictator himself? :3
Is this scenario really happening?
What the actual fuck... that it truly messed up right there. And to think people are still defending those rats...
Here's the kicker; the Democrats have enough votes to pass a Clean Resolution. Basically a law with no pork, just raising the debt ceiling with no concessions. The issue is that the only person that can bring the bill to the floor is Republican House Speaker John Boehner.
Am I understanding it correctly that a procedural rule made it's way through (coincidentally on October 1st) that put the power over said Clean Resolution in the hands of one single person or am I misunderstanding something?
e: In addition assuming the above is correct the only way to change that (through a motion) would have to be offered by the majority leader or his designee aka only the dictator may undictator himself? :3
Is this scenario really happening?
The truly amazing thing is that that video indicates that it is NOT the Speaker, who is the ranking member of the majority party, but instead the majority leader (Eric Cantor, the number two republican in the House) who the rule change gave power to concerning the CR.
This makes sense when you consider how many Republicans (mostly Tea Party repubs) feel the Speaker is weak (in that he is willing to negotiate or not hold the line.)
I don't really follow politics, so I'm wondering if I'm understanding this correctly:
Republicans John Boehner and Eric Cantor are the only two members who can call up the Senate bill to immediately re-open the government (through a Clean Resolution, which the Democrats could have, and would have, passed), due to an alteration by Republicans to restrict the rest of the members' powers (read as: most importantly, the Democrats)? And so the Democrats could have moved to re-open the government via a standing House Rule, but are no longer able to because Republicans adjusted the policy (conveniently right before the government shut down) so that only two Republicans can pass the motion, and no one else?
Here's the kicker; the Democrats have enough votes to pass a Clean Resolution. Basically a law with no pork, just raising the debt ceiling with no concessions. The issue is that the only person that can bring the bill to the floor is Republican House Speaker John Boehner.
Am I understanding it correctly that a procedural rule made it's way through (coincidentally on October 1st) that put the power over said Clean Resolution in the hands of one single person or am I misunderstanding something?
e: In addition assuming the above is correct the only way to change that (through a motion) would have to be offered by the majority leader or his designee aka only the dictator may undictator himself? :3
Is this scenario really happening?
The truly amazing thing is that that video indicates that it is NOT the Speaker, who is the ranking member of the majority party, but instead the majority leader (Eric Cantor, the number two republican in the House) who the rule change gave power to concerning the CR.
This makes sense when you consider how many Republicans (mostly Tea Party repubs) feel the Speaker is weak (in that he is willing to negotiate or not hold the line.)
I don't really follow politics, so I'm wondering if I'm understanding this correctly:
Republicans John Boehner and Eric Cantor are the only two members who can call up the Senate bill to immediately re-open the government (through a Clean Resolution, which the Democrats could have, and would have, passed), due to an alteration by Republicans to restrict the rest of the members' powers (read as: most importantly, the Democrats)? And so the Democrats could have moved to re-open the government via a standing House Rule, but are no longer able to because Republicans adjusted the policy (conveniently right before the government shut down) so that only two Republicans can pass the motion, and no one else?
Yes, you are basically understanding this correctly. But remember, "both sides are equally responsible for the shutdown". /sarcasm
Here's the kicker; the Democrats have enough votes to pass a Clean Resolution. Basically a law with no pork, just raising the debt ceiling with no concessions. The issue is that the only person that can bring the bill to the floor is Republican House Speaker John Boehner.
Am I understanding it correctly that a procedural rule made it's way through (coincidentally on October 1st) that put the power over said Clean Resolution in the hands of one single person or am I misunderstanding something?
e: In addition assuming the above is correct the only way to change that (through a motion) would have to be offered by the majority leader or his designee aka only the dictator may undictator himself? :3
Is this scenario really happening?
The truly amazing thing is that that video indicates that it is NOT the Speaker, who is the ranking member of the majority party, but instead the majority leader (Eric Cantor, the number two republican in the House) who the rule change gave power to concerning the CR.
This makes sense when you consider how many Republicans (mostly Tea Party repubs) feel the Speaker is weak (in that he is willing to negotiate or not hold the line.)
I don't really follow politics, so I'm wondering if I'm understanding this correctly:
Republicans John Boehner and Eric Cantor are the only two members who can call up the Senate bill to immediately re-open the government (through a Clean Resolution, which the Democrats could have, and would have, passed), due to an alteration by Republicans to restrict the rest of the members' powers (read as: most importantly, the Democrats)? And so the Democrats could have moved to re-open the government via a standing House Rule, but are no longer able to because Republicans adjusted the policy (conveniently right before the government shut down) so that only two Republicans can pass the motion, and no one else?
Pretty much. They won't let it go to a vote because there are enough republicans not toeing the party line, so the republican leadership won't let them even attempt a vote.
How exactly did that rule get changed in the first place?
To me a change that says "only two people in the entire senate have the power to allow what gets voted on and what doesn't" doesn't exactly sound democratic or smart.
Here's the kicker; the Democrats have enough votes to pass a Clean Resolution. Basically a law with no pork, just raising the debt ceiling with no concessions. The issue is that the only person that can bring the bill to the floor is Republican House Speaker John Boehner.
Am I understanding it correctly that a procedural rule made it's way through (coincidentally on October 1st) that put the power over said Clean Resolution in the hands of one single person or am I misunderstanding something?
e: In addition assuming the above is correct the only way to change that (through a motion) would have to be offered by the majority leader or his designee aka only the dictator may undictator himself? :3
Is this scenario really happening?
The truly amazing thing is that that video indicates that it is NOT the Speaker, who is the ranking member of the majority party, but instead the majority leader (Eric Cantor, the number two republican in the House) who the rule change gave power to concerning the CR.
This makes sense when you consider how many Republicans (mostly Tea Party repubs) feel the Speaker is weak (in that he is willing to negotiate or not hold the line.)
I don't really follow politics, so I'm wondering if I'm understanding this correctly:
Republicans John Boehner and Eric Cantor are the only two members who can call up the Senate bill to immediately re-open the government (through a Clean Resolution, which the Democrats could have, and would have, passed), due to an alteration by Republicans to restrict the rest of the members' powers (read as: most importantly, the Democrats)? And so the Democrats could have moved to re-open the government via a standing House Rule, but are no longer able to because Republicans adjusted the policy (conveniently right before the government shut down) so that only two Republicans can pass the motion, and no one else?
What a great country we live in...
On October 14 2013 12:16 r.Evo wrote: How exactly did that rule get changed in the first place?
To me a change that says "only two people in the entire senate have the power to allow what gets voted on and what doesn't" doesn't exactly sound democratic or smart.
House resolutions only require a simple majority to pass. This one passing opens the floodgate imo.
Here's the kicker; the Democrats have enough votes to pass a Clean Resolution. Basically a law with no pork, just raising the debt ceiling with no concessions. The issue is that the only person that can bring the bill to the floor is Republican House Speaker John Boehner.
Am I understanding it correctly that a procedural rule made it's way through (coincidentally on October 1st) that put the power over said Clean Resolution in the hands of one single person or am I misunderstanding something?
e: In addition assuming the above is correct the only way to change that (through a motion) would have to be offered by the majority leader or his designee aka only the dictator may undictator himself? :3
On October 14 2013 12:16 r.Evo wrote: How exactly did that rule get changed in the first place?
To me a change that says "only two people in the entire senate have the power to allow what gets voted on and what doesn't" doesn't exactly sound democratic or smart.
Yeah, the constitution should have rules specifically preventing the chambers of parliament for going tits up totalitarian. The republican leadership managed to pass a motion that allows two representatives to veto decisions made by 430 other representatives before they even happen, even though they don't have the legitimacy to do that. Nobody chose to give those fucks a completely unreasonable amount of control over the legislature.
And the funny thing is, apparently this fucking thing can't be reversed unless Boehner or Cantor decide to let go of that immense amount of power they've given to themselves.
A US legislative chamber has gone completely and utterly insane.
On October 14 2013 12:24 TheRabidDeer wrote: Wish we could call a new election like the UK. With this stuff fresh in our minds, we might get these people out of office.
Wouldn't help. I think the resolution also gave Boehner and Cantor power over the UK.
On October 14 2013 12:16 r.Evo wrote: How exactly did that rule get changed in the first place?
To me a change that says "only two people in the entire senate have the power to allow what gets voted on and what doesn't" doesn't exactly sound democratic or smart.
The republican leadership managed to pass a motion that allows two representatives to veto decisions made by 430 other representatives before they even happen, even though they don't have the legitimacy to do that.
...is this where I need to ask if there is some clause for "ups we accidentally a dictator"? (is there?)
On October 14 2013 12:16 r.Evo wrote: How exactly did that rule get changed in the first place?
To me a change that says "only two people in the entire senate have the power to allow what gets voted on and what doesn't" doesn't exactly sound democratic or smart.
The republican leadership managed to pass a motion that allows two representatives to veto decisions made by 430 other representatives before they even happen, even though they don't have the legitimacy to do that.
...is this where I need to ask if there is some clause for "ups we accidentally a dictator"? (is there?)
Let me put it this way. Look at the quote in your signature. Bob Ross wouldn't call this a "happy little accident".
Here's the kicker; the Democrats have enough votes to pass a Clean Resolution. Basically a law with no pork, just raising the debt ceiling with no concessions. The issue is that the only person that can bring the bill to the floor is Republican House Speaker John Boehner.
Am I understanding it correctly that a procedural rule made it's way through (coincidentally on October 1st) that put the power over said Clean Resolution in the hands of one single person or am I misunderstanding something?
e: In addition assuming the above is correct the only way to change that (through a motion) would have to be offered by the majority leader or his designee aka only the dictator may undictator himself? :3
Is this scenario really happening?
The truly amazing thing is that that video indicates that it is NOT the Speaker, who is the ranking member of the majority party, but instead the majority leader (Eric Cantor, the number two republican in the House) who the rule change gave power to concerning the CR.
This makes sense when you consider how many Republicans (mostly Tea Party repubs) feel the Speaker is weak (in that he is willing to negotiate or not hold the line.)
I don't really follow politics, so I'm wondering if I'm understanding this correctly:
Republicans John Boehner and Eric Cantor are the only two members who can call up the Senate bill to immediately re-open the government (through a Clean Resolution, which the Democrats could have, and would have, passed), due to an alteration by Republicans to restrict the rest of the members' powers (read as: most importantly, the Democrats)? And so the Democrats could have moved to re-open the government via a standing House Rule, but are no longer able to because Republicans adjusted the policy (conveniently right before the government shut down) so that only two Republicans can pass the motion, and no one else?
On October 14 2013 12:16 r.Evo wrote: How exactly did that rule get changed in the first place?
To me a change that says "only two people in the entire senate have the power to allow what gets voted on and what doesn't" doesn't exactly sound democratic or smart.
House resolutions only require a simple majority to pass. This one passing opens the floodgate imo.
Eeeeeyup, Republicans have a majority in the house, so there was literally nothing the democrats could do to stop that resolution, so they gave themselves complete and utter veto power over any bill the house would like to pass, by simply making it so that only they can even call for a vote on it.
Here's the kicker; the Democrats have enough votes to pass a Clean Resolution. Basically a law with no pork, just raising the debt ceiling with no concessions. The issue is that the only person that can bring the bill to the floor is Republican House Speaker John Boehner.
Am I understanding it correctly that a procedural rule made it's way through (coincidentally on October 1st) that put the power over said Clean Resolution in the hands of one single person or am I misunderstanding something?
e: In addition assuming the above is correct the only way to change that (through a motion) would have to be offered by the majority leader or his designee aka only the dictator may undictator himself? :3
Is this scenario really happening?
The truly amazing thing is that that video indicates that it is NOT the Speaker, who is the ranking member of the majority party, but instead the majority leader (Eric Cantor, the number two republican in the House) who the rule change gave power to concerning the CR.
This makes sense when you consider how many Republicans (mostly Tea Party repubs) feel the Speaker is weak (in that he is willing to negotiate or not hold the line.)
I don't really follow politics, so I'm wondering if I'm understanding this correctly:
Republicans John Boehner and Eric Cantor are the only two members who can call up the Senate bill to immediately re-open the government (through a Clean Resolution, which the Democrats could have, and would have, passed), due to an alteration by Republicans to restrict the rest of the members' powers (read as: most importantly, the Democrats)? And so the Democrats could have moved to re-open the government via a standing House Rule, but are no longer able to because Republicans adjusted the policy (conveniently right before the government shut down) so that only two Republicans can pass the motion, and no one else?
What a great country we live in...
On October 14 2013 12:16 r.Evo wrote: How exactly did that rule get changed in the first place?
To me a change that says "only two people in the entire senate have the power to allow what gets voted on and what doesn't" doesn't exactly sound democratic or smart.
House resolutions only require a simple majority to pass. This one passing opens the floodgate imo.
Eeeeeyup, Republicans have a majority in the house, so there was literally nothing the democrats could do to stop that resolution, so they gave themselves complete and utter veto power over any bill the house would like to pass, by simply making it so that only they can even call for a vote on it.
So given that the Democrats are no longer able to pass a motion to re-open the government via the Clean Resolution, what options do Democrats have left?
And in general, assuming that Boehner and Cantor don't advocate the CR, how else could the government re-open?
Here's the kicker; the Democrats have enough votes to pass a Clean Resolution. Basically a law with no pork, just raising the debt ceiling with no concessions. The issue is that the only person that can bring the bill to the floor is Republican House Speaker John Boehner.
Am I understanding it correctly that a procedural rule made it's way through (coincidentally on October 1st) that put the power over said Clean Resolution in the hands of one single person or am I misunderstanding something?
e: In addition assuming the above is correct the only way to change that (through a motion) would have to be offered by the majority leader or his designee aka only the dictator may undictator himself? :3
Is this scenario really happening?
The truly amazing thing is that that video indicates that it is NOT the Speaker, who is the ranking member of the majority party, but instead the majority leader (Eric Cantor, the number two republican in the House) who the rule change gave power to concerning the CR.
This makes sense when you consider how many Republicans (mostly Tea Party repubs) feel the Speaker is weak (in that he is willing to negotiate or not hold the line.)
I don't really follow politics, so I'm wondering if I'm understanding this correctly:
Republicans John Boehner and Eric Cantor are the only two members who can call up the Senate bill to immediately re-open the government (through a Clean Resolution, which the Democrats could have, and would have, passed), due to an alteration by Republicans to restrict the rest of the members' powers (read as: most importantly, the Democrats)? And so the Democrats could have moved to re-open the government via a standing House Rule, but are no longer able to because Republicans adjusted the policy (conveniently right before the government shut down) so that only two Republicans can pass the motion, and no one else?
What a great country we live in...
On October 14 2013 12:16 r.Evo wrote: How exactly did that rule get changed in the first place?
To me a change that says "only two people in the entire senate have the power to allow what gets voted on and what doesn't" doesn't exactly sound democratic or smart.
House resolutions only require a simple majority to pass. This one passing opens the floodgate imo.
Eeeeeyup, Republicans have a majority in the house, so there was literally nothing the democrats could do to stop that resolution, so they gave themselves complete and utter veto power over any bill the house would like to pass, by simply making it so that only they can even call for a vote on it.
So given that the Democrats are no longer able to pass a motion to re-open the government via the Clean Resolution, what options do Democrats have left?
And in general, assuming that Boehner and Cantor don't advocate the CR, how else could the government re-open?
It can't, unless Obama tries an executive order. The options for the democrats are: 1: play politics like they are now, and hope pressure causes the republicans to give in. 2: do nothing and see what happens 3: give in to the republican demands, validate the tactics they're using, and acknowledge defeat 4: Obama can try to give an executive order to force them to do it. The grounds for this would be the fact that the constitution says the government must pay it's debts. This would have to pass muster in the supreme court most likely, but Obama really doesn't want to play this card, as it could backfire horribly on him and the democrats. 5: Stir up a mob of people to march on washington. They're not going to do this.
EPT
