|
I found this to be completely hilarious... Fox News did an absolute 180 and is now talking about how wonderful Obamacare is and how Republicans are wrong for disliking it:
Five reasons Americans already love ObamaCare — plus one reason why they’re gonna love it even more, soon
There’s a reason Republicans have been rushing to try and defund the Affordable Care Act before October 1, when major sections of the law take effect.
Republicans know what polls show — that most Americans don’t know what’s in ObamaCare, but when told what the law actually includes, a strong majority support the law.
Once state health insurance exchanges take effect, and premiums for all Americans go down, Republicans know the law will only become more popular and harder to repeal.
As Republican Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said, “It's a lot harder to undo something than it is to stop it in the first place.”
Exactly.
Because just like Republicans railed against Social Security and Medicaid and Medicare when they were first proposed, those programs are now highly effective and broadly popular parts of our social safety net — supported even by strong majorities of Republican voters.
Americans of all political stripes like choice and competition, which is precisely what the ObamaCare health insurance exchanges will create.
So, for those of you who have been too busy criticizing ObamaCare for partisan reasons to actually look at what’s in the law — and see what Americans like about it — here is a handy-dandy review:
1. ACA allows young Americans to stay on their parents’ insurance plans
Because of ObamaCare, which allows kids to stay on their parents insurance plans until age 26, 3.4 million young Americans now have coverage.
The percentage of uninsured young people (ages 19 to 25) fell accordingly, from 48% in 2010 to 21% in 2012.
According to polling, three-in-four Americans support this part of the Affordable Care Act including, yes, over two-thirds of Republicans.
2. ACA bans insurance companies from denying coverage for pre-existing conditions
Another aspect of ObamaCare that has already taken effect is the ban on insurance companies denying coverage to patients based on pre-existing conditions.
That means an end to insurance company horror stories like four-month-old Alex Lange being denied health insurance because he was too chubby.
This is why the conservative allegation about death panels is so ironic; while the actual ACA law does not contain death panels or anything remotely like them, the fact is that prior to ObamaCare, insurance companies were effectively operating like death panels in denying life-saving coverage to anyone with a pre-existing condition and by applying life-time spending caps on coverage.
The ban on pre-existing condition limits, which will apply to every single American by 2014, is supported by 83% of Americans.
3. ACA offers tax credits to small businesses to buy insurance
The Affordable Care Act expands tax credits to help small businesses provide health insurance to their workers. Companies with fewer than 50 employees do not have to provide insurance, but even for these businesses, ObamaCare will make it easier and cheaper if they choose to do so.
According to polling, 88% of Americans think these small business tax credits are great, including — wait for it ... yes, 83% of Republicans. That’s right, over eight-in-ten Republicans support the provision of ObamaCare that helps small businesses afford and expand their health insurance offerings to employees.
4. ACA requires companies with more than 50 employees to provide health insurance
Over 96% of companies with more than 50 employees already provide health insurance to their employees. And contrary to Republicans claiming otherwise, studies show the vast majority of those employers do not plan to drop or reduce that coverage because of ObamaCare.
Also, there is no evidence that ObamaCare has led to companies slashing full-time workers. In fact, since ObamaCare passed in March 2010, over 90% of the gain in employment has been full-time positions.
Still, we know that companies that can afford to provide health insurance to their workers and yet fail to do so off-set the costs of care onto the rest of us — whether the cost of emergency room treatment that gets passed on to other consumers, or Medicaid coverage that we pay for as taxpayers.
In Florida alone, more than 50,000 workers at companies like McDonald’s and Burger King are on the state’s Medicaid rolls. Especially with tax credits available to small businesses, there is no excuse for companies to pass the buck. And 75% of Americanssupport this element of ObamaCare.
5. ACA provides subsidies to help individuals afford coverage
Many of the 45 million Americans who lack health insurance simply don’t have enough money to afford coverage. ObamaCare will lower the cost of premiums but also provide subsidies to help low- and middle-income Americans purchase insurance.
Americans who earn $45,000 per year (about 400% of the federal poverty level) will qualify for some form of subsidy. The amount of the subsidy will be based on income as well as the cost of health coverage in a particular state but, for instance, according to a subsidy calculator created by the Kaiser Family Foundation, a 27-year-old living in Houston, Texas, who earns just $15,000 a year could sign-up for a mid-level plan for about $300 per year with the help of subsidies. Without subsidies, that plan would cost $2,400 per year.
The few Americans who think subsidizing care is a bad idea should, again, note that we already subsidize health care to a far greater degree in the form of Medicaid and also when the uninsured rely on free emergency room care and pass those astronomical costs on to the rest of us. But most Americans — 76% to be exact — support the individual subsidy. That includes 61% of Republicans.
There’s even more aspects of ObamaCare that the American people already support — including the employer mandate, the increased Medicare payroll tax on higher-income Americans and the expansion of Medicaid.
And then, starting October 1, here’s one more:
6. State-based health insurance exchanges
Americans of all political stripes like choice and competition, which is precisely what the ObamaCare health insurance exchanges will create. So it’s no wonder that 80% of Americans — including 72% of Republicans — support the health insurance exchange program in ObamaCare. And that’s even before the exchanges have taken effect!
Plus, a new report shows that health insurance premiums will be even lower under ObamaCare than originally projected.
Personally, as someone who pays through the nose for individual insurance in New York State — a state where, historically, few individual insurance options have even been available — I can’t wait to enroll in ObamaCare and see my premiums plummet, as they are expected to by at least 50%.
Again, all this is why Republicans are in such a desperate rush to try and defund ObamaCare before October 1 — even if it means holding our economy hostage and even if most voters, including Republicans, oppose the repeated and wasteful defunding attempts.
After all, the law is already popular when it’s not fully in effect and most people haven’t felt its benefits. We all know what will happen when ObamaCare takes effect — and works!
Republicans who are throwing temper tantrums over sour grapes need to grow up.
Congress passed the Affordable Care Act, President Obama signed it into law and the Supreme Court upheld its constitutionality.
The cost of doing nothing on health care reform was too great and the cost of repeatedly refighting the political battles of the past is obscene. But then again, it makes perfect sense why Republicans refuse to just give up and shut up — because the minute they do, there will be no more distractions from all the good things about ObamaCare.
~ http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/09/30/five-reasons-americans-already-love-obamacare-plus-one-reason-why-theyre-gonna/
|
On October 03 2013 12:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:I found this to be completely hilarious... Fox News did an absolute 180 and is now talking about how wonderful Obamacare is and how Republicans are wrong for disliking it: Show nested quote +Five reasons Americans already love ObamaCare — plus one reason why they’re gonna love it even more, soon
There’s a reason Republicans have been rushing to try and defund the Affordable Care Act before October 1, when major sections of the law take effect.
Republicans know what polls show — that most Americans don’t know what’s in ObamaCare, but when told what the law actually includes, a strong majority support the law.
Once state health insurance exchanges take effect, and premiums for all Americans go down, Republicans know the law will only become more popular and harder to repeal.
As Republican Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said, “It's a lot harder to undo something than it is to stop it in the first place.”
Exactly.
Because just like Republicans railed against Social Security and Medicaid and Medicare when they were first proposed, those programs are now highly effective and broadly popular parts of our social safety net — supported even by strong majorities of Republican voters.
Americans of all political stripes like choice and competition, which is precisely what the ObamaCare health insurance exchanges will create.
So, for those of you who have been too busy criticizing ObamaCare for partisan reasons to actually look at what’s in the law — and see what Americans like about it — here is a handy-dandy review:
1. ACA allows young Americans to stay on their parents’ insurance plans
Because of ObamaCare, which allows kids to stay on their parents insurance plans until age 26, 3.4 million young Americans now have coverage.
The percentage of uninsured young people (ages 19 to 25) fell accordingly, from 48% in 2010 to 21% in 2012.
According to polling, three-in-four Americans support this part of the Affordable Care Act including, yes, over two-thirds of Republicans.
2. ACA bans insurance companies from denying coverage for pre-existing conditions
Another aspect of ObamaCare that has already taken effect is the ban on insurance companies denying coverage to patients based on pre-existing conditions.
That means an end to insurance company horror stories like four-month-old Alex Lange being denied health insurance because he was too chubby.
This is why the conservative allegation about death panels is so ironic; while the actual ACA law does not contain death panels or anything remotely like them, the fact is that prior to ObamaCare, insurance companies were effectively operating like death panels in denying life-saving coverage to anyone with a pre-existing condition and by applying life-time spending caps on coverage.
The ban on pre-existing condition limits, which will apply to every single American by 2014, is supported by 83% of Americans.
3. ACA offers tax credits to small businesses to buy insurance
The Affordable Care Act expands tax credits to help small businesses provide health insurance to their workers. Companies with fewer than 50 employees do not have to provide insurance, but even for these businesses, ObamaCare will make it easier and cheaper if they choose to do so.
According to polling, 88% of Americans think these small business tax credits are great, including — wait for it ... yes, 83% of Republicans. That’s right, over eight-in-ten Republicans support the provision of ObamaCare that helps small businesses afford and expand their health insurance offerings to employees.
4. ACA requires companies with more than 50 employees to provide health insurance
Over 96% of companies with more than 50 employees already provide health insurance to their employees. And contrary to Republicans claiming otherwise, studies show the vast majority of those employers do not plan to drop or reduce that coverage because of ObamaCare.
Also, there is no evidence that ObamaCare has led to companies slashing full-time workers. In fact, since ObamaCare passed in March 2010, over 90% of the gain in employment has been full-time positions.
Still, we know that companies that can afford to provide health insurance to their workers and yet fail to do so off-set the costs of care onto the rest of us — whether the cost of emergency room treatment that gets passed on to other consumers, or Medicaid coverage that we pay for as taxpayers.
In Florida alone, more than 50,000 workers at companies like McDonald’s and Burger King are on the state’s Medicaid rolls. Especially with tax credits available to small businesses, there is no excuse for companies to pass the buck. And 75% of Americanssupport this element of ObamaCare.
5. ACA provides subsidies to help individuals afford coverage
Many of the 45 million Americans who lack health insurance simply don’t have enough money to afford coverage. ObamaCare will lower the cost of premiums but also provide subsidies to help low- and middle-income Americans purchase insurance.
Americans who earn $45,000 per year (about 400% of the federal poverty level) will qualify for some form of subsidy. The amount of the subsidy will be based on income as well as the cost of health coverage in a particular state but, for instance, according to a subsidy calculator created by the Kaiser Family Foundation, a 27-year-old living in Houston, Texas, who earns just $15,000 a year could sign-up for a mid-level plan for about $300 per year with the help of subsidies. Without subsidies, that plan would cost $2,400 per year.
The few Americans who think subsidizing care is a bad idea should, again, note that we already subsidize health care to a far greater degree in the form of Medicaid and also when the uninsured rely on free emergency room care and pass those astronomical costs on to the rest of us. But most Americans — 76% to be exact — support the individual subsidy. That includes 61% of Republicans.
There’s even more aspects of ObamaCare that the American people already support — including the employer mandate, the increased Medicare payroll tax on higher-income Americans and the expansion of Medicaid.
And then, starting October 1, here’s one more:
6. State-based health insurance exchanges
Americans of all political stripes like choice and competition, which is precisely what the ObamaCare health insurance exchanges will create. So it’s no wonder that 80% of Americans — including 72% of Republicans — support the health insurance exchange program in ObamaCare. And that’s even before the exchanges have taken effect!
Plus, a new report shows that health insurance premiums will be even lower under ObamaCare than originally projected.
Personally, as someone who pays through the nose for individual insurance in New York State — a state where, historically, few individual insurance options have even been available — I can’t wait to enroll in ObamaCare and see my premiums plummet, as they are expected to by at least 50%.
Again, all this is why Republicans are in such a desperate rush to try and defund ObamaCare before October 1 — even if it means holding our economy hostage and even if most voters, including Republicans, oppose the repeated and wasteful defunding attempts.
After all, the law is already popular when it’s not fully in effect and most people haven’t felt its benefits. We all know what will happen when ObamaCare takes effect — and works!
Republicans who are throwing temper tantrums over sour grapes need to grow up.
Congress passed the Affordable Care Act, President Obama signed it into law and the Supreme Court upheld its constitutionality.
The cost of doing nothing on health care reform was too great and the cost of repeatedly refighting the political battles of the past is obscene. But then again, it makes perfect sense why Republicans refuse to just give up and shut up — because the minute they do, there will be no more distractions from all the good things about ObamaCare. ~ http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/09/30/five-reasons-americans-already-love-obamacare-plus-one-reason-why-theyre-gonna/
That's from a few days ago and it's an opinion piece from this "Sally Kohn" person who's one of Fox's people that they refer to when they try to convince us that they're not on the right politically.
|
On October 03 2013 13:02 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 12:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:I found this to be completely hilarious... Fox News did an absolute 180 and is now talking about how wonderful Obamacare is and how Republicans are wrong for disliking it: Five reasons Americans already love ObamaCare — plus one reason why they’re gonna love it even more, soon
There’s a reason Republicans have been rushing to try and defund the Affordable Care Act before October 1, when major sections of the law take effect.
Republicans know what polls show — that most Americans don’t know what’s in ObamaCare, but when told what the law actually includes, a strong majority support the law.
Once state health insurance exchanges take effect, and premiums for all Americans go down, Republicans know the law will only become more popular and harder to repeal.
As Republican Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said, “It's a lot harder to undo something than it is to stop it in the first place.”
Exactly.
Because just like Republicans railed against Social Security and Medicaid and Medicare when they were first proposed, those programs are now highly effective and broadly popular parts of our social safety net — supported even by strong majorities of Republican voters.
Americans of all political stripes like choice and competition, which is precisely what the ObamaCare health insurance exchanges will create.
So, for those of you who have been too busy criticizing ObamaCare for partisan reasons to actually look at what’s in the law — and see what Americans like about it — here is a handy-dandy review:
1. ACA allows young Americans to stay on their parents’ insurance plans
Because of ObamaCare, which allows kids to stay on their parents insurance plans until age 26, 3.4 million young Americans now have coverage.
The percentage of uninsured young people (ages 19 to 25) fell accordingly, from 48% in 2010 to 21% in 2012.
According to polling, three-in-four Americans support this part of the Affordable Care Act including, yes, over two-thirds of Republicans.
2. ACA bans insurance companies from denying coverage for pre-existing conditions
Another aspect of ObamaCare that has already taken effect is the ban on insurance companies denying coverage to patients based on pre-existing conditions.
That means an end to insurance company horror stories like four-month-old Alex Lange being denied health insurance because he was too chubby.
This is why the conservative allegation about death panels is so ironic; while the actual ACA law does not contain death panels or anything remotely like them, the fact is that prior to ObamaCare, insurance companies were effectively operating like death panels in denying life-saving coverage to anyone with a pre-existing condition and by applying life-time spending caps on coverage.
The ban on pre-existing condition limits, which will apply to every single American by 2014, is supported by 83% of Americans.
3. ACA offers tax credits to small businesses to buy insurance
The Affordable Care Act expands tax credits to help small businesses provide health insurance to their workers. Companies with fewer than 50 employees do not have to provide insurance, but even for these businesses, ObamaCare will make it easier and cheaper if they choose to do so.
According to polling, 88% of Americans think these small business tax credits are great, including — wait for it ... yes, 83% of Republicans. That’s right, over eight-in-ten Republicans support the provision of ObamaCare that helps small businesses afford and expand their health insurance offerings to employees.
4. ACA requires companies with more than 50 employees to provide health insurance
Over 96% of companies with more than 50 employees already provide health insurance to their employees. And contrary to Republicans claiming otherwise, studies show the vast majority of those employers do not plan to drop or reduce that coverage because of ObamaCare.
Also, there is no evidence that ObamaCare has led to companies slashing full-time workers. In fact, since ObamaCare passed in March 2010, over 90% of the gain in employment has been full-time positions.
Still, we know that companies that can afford to provide health insurance to their workers and yet fail to do so off-set the costs of care onto the rest of us — whether the cost of emergency room treatment that gets passed on to other consumers, or Medicaid coverage that we pay for as taxpayers.
In Florida alone, more than 50,000 workers at companies like McDonald’s and Burger King are on the state’s Medicaid rolls. Especially with tax credits available to small businesses, there is no excuse for companies to pass the buck. And 75% of Americanssupport this element of ObamaCare.
5. ACA provides subsidies to help individuals afford coverage
Many of the 45 million Americans who lack health insurance simply don’t have enough money to afford coverage. ObamaCare will lower the cost of premiums but also provide subsidies to help low- and middle-income Americans purchase insurance.
Americans who earn $45,000 per year (about 400% of the federal poverty level) will qualify for some form of subsidy. The amount of the subsidy will be based on income as well as the cost of health coverage in a particular state but, for instance, according to a subsidy calculator created by the Kaiser Family Foundation, a 27-year-old living in Houston, Texas, who earns just $15,000 a year could sign-up for a mid-level plan for about $300 per year with the help of subsidies. Without subsidies, that plan would cost $2,400 per year.
The few Americans who think subsidizing care is a bad idea should, again, note that we already subsidize health care to a far greater degree in the form of Medicaid and also when the uninsured rely on free emergency room care and pass those astronomical costs on to the rest of us. But most Americans — 76% to be exact — support the individual subsidy. That includes 61% of Republicans.
There’s even more aspects of ObamaCare that the American people already support — including the employer mandate, the increased Medicare payroll tax on higher-income Americans and the expansion of Medicaid.
And then, starting October 1, here’s one more:
6. State-based health insurance exchanges
Americans of all political stripes like choice and competition, which is precisely what the ObamaCare health insurance exchanges will create. So it’s no wonder that 80% of Americans — including 72% of Republicans — support the health insurance exchange program in ObamaCare. And that’s even before the exchanges have taken effect!
Plus, a new report shows that health insurance premiums will be even lower under ObamaCare than originally projected.
Personally, as someone who pays through the nose for individual insurance in New York State — a state where, historically, few individual insurance options have even been available — I can’t wait to enroll in ObamaCare and see my premiums plummet, as they are expected to by at least 50%.
Again, all this is why Republicans are in such a desperate rush to try and defund ObamaCare before October 1 — even if it means holding our economy hostage and even if most voters, including Republicans, oppose the repeated and wasteful defunding attempts.
After all, the law is already popular when it’s not fully in effect and most people haven’t felt its benefits. We all know what will happen when ObamaCare takes effect — and works!
Republicans who are throwing temper tantrums over sour grapes need to grow up.
Congress passed the Affordable Care Act, President Obama signed it into law and the Supreme Court upheld its constitutionality.
The cost of doing nothing on health care reform was too great and the cost of repeatedly refighting the political battles of the past is obscene. But then again, it makes perfect sense why Republicans refuse to just give up and shut up — because the minute they do, there will be no more distractions from all the good things about ObamaCare. ~ http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/09/30/five-reasons-americans-already-love-obamacare-plus-one-reason-why-theyre-gonna/ That's from a few days ago and it's an opinion piece from this "Sally Kohn" person who's one of Fox's people that they refer to when they try to convince us that they're not on the right politically.
Ohhh, I was going to assume that someone figured out their health insurance stocks were headed higher 
|
On October 03 2013 09:26 aristarchus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 08:37 Euronyme wrote:
Could someone in simple words explain obamacare to me? As far as I understand it, companies are supposed to pay some fee for their employees, which in turn pays everyones health insurance(?).
Why isn't it just on the same tax that pays the military and the police?
Just some fresh news from over the pond, in Sweden it's starting to become very popular in the middle class and upper classes to demand higher taxes. It's not the same general tax because that goes to the government, and health care isn't provided by the government. It's provided by private doctors/hospitals, paid for by private insurance companies. The basic idea is that you pay a fixed amount whether you're sick or not, and the insurance company pays for your health care. They lose money on people who get unlucky and sick, but make money on everyone else. Unfortunately, it would not be in a company's interest to offer this normally, because people could game the system by just waiting until they got sick and buying it then. As a result insurance companies have to put in a rule saying pre-existing conditions aren't covered. Traditionally people get health insurance as part of their benefits from their employer - companies with lots of employees have this big group that will average out the risk of the people and can therefore negotiate better rates. Buying insurance on your own is very expensive. Obamacare does two things. First it requires that employers (above a certain size) cover healthcare for their employees. Most do this already, but for low-wage workers it's the equivalent of a pay raise. The other thing is to undo the problem where if you lose your insurance you can't ever get coverage for illnesses you already have. To do that it requires that insurers cover pre-existing conditions. That re-creates the problem of gaming the system, so there's a requirement that everyone purchase health insurance to prevent that. Now, that "individual mandate" is hard on some people. So the income threshold below which medicaid (government-provided care for the poor) kicks in is increased. For people who aren't wealthy but aren't that poor, there are partial subsidies to help cover the cost of buying insurance on your own.
That system actually sounds reasonable. What's there to oppose? It sounds pretty similar to Singapore's medishield system, where we have a so called "tax"paid by our employers, 1% of our pay going to pay for insurance(Medishield), you can upgrade that basic insurance by taking up enhanced plans from private insurance companies.
Insurance is a must for people regardless, this should reduce the prices of insurance overall as so much more people now have to buy into the insurance.
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
so i was checking the USGS site for earthquakes and it says:
Due to a lapse in Federal funding, the USGS Earthquake Hazards Program has suspended most of its operations. While the USGS will continue to monitor and report on earthquake activity, the accuracy or timeliness of some earthquake information products, as well as the availability or functionality of some web pages, could be affected by our reduced level of operation.
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/?source=sitenav
gg
|
Good ol' GOP just digging that grave deeper and deeper. I love it!
|
In an ultimately futile gesture at bringing some sanity and rational thought to teamliquids political discourse: + Show Spoiler +America, we are told, is in the grim midst of an unrivaled constitutional crisis that is being perpetrated in anger by “racist,” “bomb-throwing” “anarchists” whose “endgame” and ultimate fantasy is the shutting down of government — not, of course, because the co-equal branches of the American polity cannot come to a budget agreement, but because a vocal “extreme” minority, that has magically managed to transmute itself into a majority of the House and 46 percent of the Senate, does not believe in having a government at all.
E. J. Dionne, the Washington Post’s resident worrywart, yesterday assured his concerned readers that Washington has shut down because “right-wing extremists” who do not accept the president’s “legitimacy” have taken an axe to America’s “normal, well-functioning, constitutional system,” and swung it, too, against “anyone who accepts majority rule and constitutional constraints.” Among his ideological bedfellows, this is a popular complaint.
Rest of the article: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/360142/government-shutdowns-history-charles-c-w-cooke
|
On October 03 2013 07:16 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 06:56 s3rp wrote:On October 03 2013 06:46 cLutZ wrote:On October 03 2013 06:06 Jormundr wrote:On October 03 2013 05:56 cLutZ wrote:On October 03 2013 05:36 Gorsameth wrote:On October 03 2013 05:32 Mohdoo wrote:On October 03 2013 05:27 Shiragaku wrote:On October 03 2013 05:22 Djzapz wrote:On October 03 2013 05:11 Shiragaku wrote:
the TEA Party seems to be pro-capitalist, but very critical of corporations, bailouts in particular. It's funny how they were originally a grassroots right-wing populist movement but were then hijacked by the corporate elite whose original existence was based around opposing. That's a bit of a strange outlook tbh. The tea party is in favor of corporations (private interest, etc) but believe that corporations which can't survive on their own should just die, as dictated by free market capitalism. They're not particularly critical to corporations, they're mostly critical of how the government spends taxes to help the "bad" ones. And you can be sure they wouldn't have been nearly as angry about the bailout if it had happened under a republican government. They just liked to paint the initiative of the democrats in black to make them look bad. Yeah, I always got that vibe from TEA Baggers :/ They are one of the most inconsistent political groups I came across. And what disturbs me more is how opportunistic they are and how...I don't wanna use Orwellian since he is overused, but just plain messed up. Bleh...but I prefer to call the TEA Party batshit insane rather than to analyze their ideology because I am not sure if they really have much of an ideology anymore. They seem like children at this point just opposing Democrats just for the sake of it :/ Pretty sure that was the entire reason for their creation. After the Obama campaign's brilliant run in 2008, it was obvious the GOP was toast unless they managed to energize their base the way Obama did. The tea party was 100% essential in order for the GOP to not just slip into irrelevance. It gave them the breath of life they needed to figure out a way to transition away. Unfortunately for them (great for the world), it got a bit out of control, and it is now making their prospects for 2014 look very grim. After this whole stunt, I think a lot of the more moderate conservatives are going to just opt out of voting when it comes down to democrat vs tea party. Before, they likely thought "might be a little extreme, but I agree with more of what they are doing". Now, its clearly just obstructive, which is gonna lose the GOP a lot more moderate voters. Likely more than they gained from the tea party to begin with. The GOP needed a way to reach out to undecided voters, the Tea Party movement has driven them further and further away from the Republican camp. Elections aren't about getting your hardcore members to vote for you. Its about winning the rest of the country. Im sorry, this just doesn't compute. Mccain and Romney are about as Liberal as you can get while still being a Republican. The strategy that Democrats suggest for Republicans has failed (you can include Bob Dole as well) 3/3 times it has been tried. If people actually wanted compromise, Romney would be President. He is the most pragmatic and compromising Presidential candidate since Eisenhower. Do you have cataracts or are you simply suffering from dementia? I am assuming that you're saying republican candidates need to be more conservative and with a larger of helping of crazy than they already provided. Unfortunately, you would be wrong, seeing how the ultra super conservatives failed to get the presidential nomination. However, I fully support your dream bro. I too would like to see a future where the republican party dissolves itself and leaves a power vacuum which would allow for a multi-party system. My point is simply that, if a person thinks Romney is too conservative, they are a lot cause for the Republicans regardless of who is nominated. The problem is not that a candite is too conservative it's that to win the republican primary you need to appeal to totally different kind of people than the general election . So in order to get the nomination you have to pretty much alienate tons of moderate/undecided voters that you have to try and win back again after you're the candidate . Most of this is pretty much issues like gay marriage , abortion , immigration/-reform etc. where the majority of the country vehemently disagrees with the conservative base. Both parties have the issue of struggling with the base in primaries and the general public during the election. Reps are struggling more right now, for sure.
Well, thing is that the Democrat party is not held in hostage by complete extremists. Democrats are suffering from the internal battle of course because candidate shit on each other to a point where it is a real handicap for the actual election.
But there is no Tea Party on the left. And the Tea Party scares the shit of anybody with an atom of common sense. Sarah Palin having a chance to be president if an old Mc Cain died in office was absolutely terrifying. And Paul Ryan who seems to have gained more understanding of how politics and the world works from Atlas Shrugged and other Ayn Rand junk was terrifying too, although in a more subtle way.
And in general, nobody on the left (the Democrats are hardly on the left at all by the way) makes as much of a disastrous impression as people like Bachman. I don't think people realize how much she hurt the Republican cause by her utterly embarrassing presence in the primaries even though she didn't win.
I do believe that until the Republicans get rid of those nutcases they won't win a single election. Which also means that America is pretty safe from extremists and it's an excellent thing. But maybe I have too much faith in people's intelligence.
|
Ill be brief.
The republicans are pathetic.
|
On October 03 2013 17:34 TyrantPotato wrote:
Ill be brief.
The republicans are pathetic.
Why though?
It's the democrats fault. The repubs showed up to negotiate obamacare adjustments (making it fractionally less terrible), the democrats didn't even bother to show up because they're not even willing to discuss it and listen to what the repubs have to say (resulting in budget failing and govt shutdown). Imo this makes the Dems incredibly childish in addition to basically being all or nothing tyrants on a crusade to increase the size of the state at all costs.
|
The fact that Democrats and Republicans were both so selfish and irresponsible enough to bring their country to this should tell people there is no need for there to be a Democrat/Republican party, they should disband and stop embarrassing America. There is absolutely no difference who is in power, practically the only reason there is a rift between the parties is because whoever is in power takes control of the funds.
In short, ban both parties and let new ones rise that actually want to help the American people.
|
The most boggling thing about this shutdown is that Congressmen are still getting paid. Pretty sure if their paycheck is cut, a compromise will soon follow.
|
On October 03 2013 16:58 Dazed_Spy wrote:In an ultimately futile gesture at bringing some sanity and rational thought to teamliquids political discourse: + Show Spoiler +America, we are told, is in the grim midst of an unrivaled constitutional crisis that is being perpetrated in anger by “racist,” “bomb-throwing” “anarchists” whose “endgame” and ultimate fantasy is the shutting down of government — not, of course, because the co-equal branches of the American polity cannot come to a budget agreement, but because a vocal “extreme” minority, that has magically managed to transmute itself into a majority of the House and 46 percent of the Senate, does not believe in having a government at all.
E. J. Dionne, the Washington Post’s resident worrywart, yesterday assured his concerned readers that Washington has shut down because “right-wing extremists” who do not accept the president’s “legitimacy” have taken an axe to America’s “normal, well-functioning, constitutional system,” and swung it, too, against “anyone who accepts majority rule and constitutional constraints.” Among his ideological bedfellows, this is a popular complaint. Rest of the article: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/360142/government-shutdowns-history-charles-c-w-cooke
I can only imagine Dionne and the rest of the Dem shills over at WashPo writers group enjoying this immensely. :D
|
If the republicans want to discuss Obamacare, they can do that. Why then, do they hold the government operational funding hostage to make themselves heard? They already passed the act. If they want to amend that, they can bring that motion forward independently of government spending.
|
Obamacare aka Affordable Healthcare act is a law, it was found constitutional by the supreme court. Not funding it is against the law. The time for discussion about what it should be is over. They already had lots of chances to change it and they didn't. You can't just shut down the government cause you're unhappy you lost. This is causing people to become jobless while the people who shut down the government still get paid.
If I don't want to pay taxes on something am I allowed to do that? Who holds the government responsible for its actions...
|
On October 03 2013 18:31 Nacl(Draq) wrote:
Obamacare aka Affordable Healthcare act is a law, it was found constitutional by the supreme court. Not funding it is against the law. The time for discussion about what it should be is over. They already had lots of chances to change it and they didn't. You can't just shut down the government cause you're unhappy you lost. This is causing people to become jobless while the people who shut down the government still get paid.
If I don't want to pay taxes on something am I allowed to do that? Who holds the government responsible for its actions...
An informed electorate?
At least in theory 
|
Krugman in the NYT explaining why the battle on Universal Healthcare is much deeper and more important than the reform itself. I found it very interesting.
Health Care Panic, Again
Eduardo Porter is getting a lot of attention for his piece in today’s paper suggesting that what Republicans fear most is that Obamacare might succeed. He deserves it: it’s a very good piece. But I guess I’m surprised that so many people seem to find this a surprising and new insight. I thought it was obvious. Here’s a column I wrote back in July predicting more or less what is now happening, for exactly the reason Porter gives: GOP panic over the prospect of successful health reform.
And let’s be clear: the health reform fight has always been about more than health reform. Liberals have long viewed health reform as the opening wedge, a sort of proof of concept, in a campaign to strengthen the US safety net and reduce income inequality; that was basically what I was urging in Conscience of a Liberal, which gave its title to this blog.
Conversely, the right has long opposed health reform for exactly the same reason: it might, in the public’s mind, legitimate further government intervention to increase economic security.
But let’s also be clear that these positions are not symmetric. Liberals favored health reform both because it would work and because it might enhance their ability to push for other policies; conservatives were and are determined to kill health reform even though it would work — in fact, precisely because it would work — because it might weaken the rest of their agenda. Basically, liberals wanted to do something good that would enlighten the public; conservatives want to prevent something good because they want to keep voters in the dark.
Now, if Obamacare turns out to be the dismal failure every Republican insists, at least publicly, it will be, it will redound to the right’s benefit. But that’s not going to happen, and the behavior of the GOP shows that at some level they know that’s not going to happen.
So my plot is working, mwahahahaha. Although I didn’t consider the side effect — benefit or cost? — that health reform would drive conservatives stark raving mad.
source: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/02/health-care-panic-again/?_r=0
|
On October 03 2013 17:43 Phenny wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 17:34 TyrantPotato wrote:
Ill be brief.
The republicans are pathetic. Why though? It's the democrats fault. The repubs showed up to negotiate obamacare adjustments (making it fractionally less terrible), the democrats didn't even bother to show up because they're not even willing to discuss it and listen to what the repubs have to say (resulting in budget failing and govt shutdown). Imo this makes the Dems incredibly childish in addition to basically being all or nothing tyrants on a crusade to increase the size of the state at all costs.
We've already had massive adjustments to obamacare to placate the right to the point that it barely even resembles the original concept. Many people on the left think it's been butchered beyond repair already.
If the idea is to continue making adjustments until the Republicans get the kind of law that they want (or ideally none at all), there are many terms that describe that kind of behavior but "compromise" isn't one of them.
|
Wouldn't having a referendum about all this be much much cheaper?
|
On October 03 2013 18:15 publicenemies wrote:
The most boggling thing about this shutdown is that Congressmen are still getting paid. Pretty sure if their paycheck is cut, a compromise will soon follow.
pretty sure that most US top-echelon politicians are millionaires.
http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/219127451.html - puts the rate at about 50%
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
