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On October 03 2013 18:31 Nacl(Draq) wrote:
Obamacare aka Affordable Healthcare act is a law, it was found constitutional by the supreme court. Not funding it is against the law. The time for discussion about what it should be is over. They already had lots of chances to change it and they didn't. You can't just shut down the government cause you're unhappy you lost. This is causing people to become jobless while the people who shut down the government still get paid.
If I don't want to pay taxes on something am I allowed to do that? Who holds the government responsible for its actions...
Exactly, where does this end? If the GOP get power next election (I hope for the world they never do) then should the democrats hold them to ransom for whatever they like? It's law.
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[B]
As far as I have seen, the Dems position is entirely reasonable. It's not a negotiation as the Republicans aren't giving anything up, they are demanding something in return for their support for something they already support (raising the debt ceiling). They want to vote for it, but only on condition that Obamacare is delayed, and they already lost on that issue before, so it should not be up for discussion realistically, and the debt ceiling should not be used as a negotiation tool.
Sufficient Republicans are being idiots about it, hence the screwed up position. Political parties fighting against each other rather than trying to help the country they are supposed to be in charge of.
It's not reasonable to continue to spend yourself into insurmountable debt. If your wife/husband ran up 100% of your income in debt on credit cards on intangible items, what would you do? Have a discussion and come to a 'consensus' with her, or cut up the damn cards and declare bankruptcy or work for years to pay off the debt you incurred?
The 'fringe' element of the Republican party are people like myself who are tired of this. We are enslaving ourselves and our children for the sake of feel good spending. We borrow money from China, to GIVE to other countries or people who refuse to get a job. We owe this 17 Trillion dollars, if we are good stewards, we will repay it. That means pain, same as it would for you in your personal life. Besides the fact that they are devaluing the dollar by doing so making everything more expensive.
Do away with it all, let charities help the poor. Somehow we survived a couple hundred prosperous years before this became the 'norm' we are forced to live with. If you are too proud to go to church once a week, you deserve to go hungry. Maybe atheists would start their own charities and help those who have no religious beliefs.
Simply put, if I am forced to provide something with the threat of violence, I am not a free man. I am a slave. I will not accept this for myself, much less my children.
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On October 03 2013 17:43 Phenny wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 17:34 TyrantPotato wrote:
Ill be brief.
The republicans are pathetic. Why though? It's the democrats fault. The repubs showed up to negotiate obamacare adjustments (making it fractionally less terrible), the democrats didn't even bother to show up because they're not even willing to discuss it and listen to what the repubs have to say (resulting in budget failing and govt shutdown). Imo this makes the Dems incredibly childish in addition to basically being all or nothing tyrants on a crusade to increase the size of the state at all costs.
Obamacare is LAW. It was ruled constitutional by the supreme court. The congress voted fot it. Obama was elected twice with obamacare in his program. There is NOTHING TO DISCUSS, which is why the democrats aren't discussing it.
It doesn't matter if you think it is a good law, it is law.
If a football team loses a game, they don't say "GIVE US 20 MORE POINTS OR WE SHUT DOWN THE FUCKING NFL!" which would be about what the GOP is doing right now.
If the GOP wants Obamacare to be revoked, they should campaign with that in their program in 2016, win the election, and revoke it. Let's hope that doesn't happen.
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On October 03 2013 19:31 b0rt_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 18:31 Nacl(Draq) wrote:
Obamacare aka Affordable Healthcare act is a law, it was found constitutional by the supreme court. Not funding it is against the law. The time for discussion about what it should be is over. They already had lots of chances to change it and they didn't. You can't just shut down the government cause you're unhappy you lost. This is causing people to become jobless while the people who shut down the government still get paid.
If I don't want to pay taxes on something am I allowed to do that? Who holds the government responsible for its actions... Exactly, where does this end? If the GOP get power next election (I hope for the world they never do) then should the democrats hold them to ransom for whatever they like? It's law.
Hey, as we know once it's the law you can never change things, and the courts have always been correct on every issue. Just read up on that Dred Scott fellow. Saying something is the law doesn't mean it's right. Not that I am implying the Act is wrong or right I really don't care at this point. The ramifications or lack thereof will be proven down the line.
The government has done this before, it'll most likely do this again it happens when the sides don't want to work together. The funny bit is watching all the news sources point to things like Parks being closed as big issues all of a sudden while the National Park's are literally falling apart due to being ignored otherwise.
Besides I don't remember seeing many people except "fringes" complaining about the Senate never signing off on a Budget for what? 3 years now? I do find politics much more amusing thanks to this, it's neat watching history play out before you.
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On October 03 2013 20:05 weekendracer wrote:Show nested quote +[B]
As far as I have seen, the Dems position is entirely reasonable. It's not a negotiation as the Republicans aren't giving anything up, they are demanding something in return for their support for something they already support (raising the debt ceiling). They want to vote for it, but only on condition that Obamacare is delayed, and they already lost on that issue before, so it should not be up for discussion realistically, and the debt ceiling should not be used as a negotiation tool.
Sufficient Republicans are being idiots about it, hence the screwed up position. Political parties fighting against each other rather than trying to help the country they are supposed to be in charge of. Simply put, if I am forced to provide something with the threat of violence, I am not a free man. I am a slave. I will not accept this for myself, much less my children.
You should overthrow the government and in the process abolish all taxes and government insitutions.
Did wonders in Somalia.
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On October 03 2013 20:05 weekendracer wrote:Show nested quote +[B]
As far as I have seen, the Dems position is entirely reasonable. It's not a negotiation as the Republicans aren't giving anything up, they are demanding something in return for their support for something they already support (raising the debt ceiling). They want to vote for it, but only on condition that Obamacare is delayed, and they already lost on that issue before, so it should not be up for discussion realistically, and the debt ceiling should not be used as a negotiation tool.
Sufficient Republicans are being idiots about it, hence the screwed up position. Political parties fighting against each other rather than trying to help the country they are supposed to be in charge of. It's not reasonable to continue to spend yourself into insurmountable debt. If your wife/husband ran up 100% of your income in debt on credit cards on intangible items, what would you do? Have a discussion and come to a 'consensus' with her, or cut up the damn cards and declare bankruptcy or work for years to pay off the debt you incurred? The 'fringe' element of the Republican party are people like myself who are tired of this. We are enslaving ourselves and our children for the sake of feel good spending. We borrow money from China, to GIVE to other countries or people who refuse to get a job. We owe this 17 Trillion dollars, if we are good stewards, we will repay it. That means pain, same as it would for you in your personal life. Besides the fact that they are devaluing the dollar by doing so making everything more expensive. Do away with it all, let charities help the poor. Somehow we survived a couple hundred prosperous years before this became the 'norm' we are forced to live with. If you are too proud to go to church once a week, you deserve to go hungry. Maybe atheists would start their own charities and help those who have no religious beliefs. Simply put, if I am forced to provide something with the threat of violence, I am not a free man. I am a slave. I will not accept this for myself, much less my children.
Apart form the fact that your rant totally misses the point of the discussion, look at your last paragraph. The GOP is trying to force the dems to do something under the threat of keeping the government shut down. This is basically the political version of "gun to head". You are not willing to accept this, why should the democrats?´
Quick edit: As a eurpean I always find it amusing how some americans say you spend too much on social expenses and that's where cuts should be made, while you have an insenaely huge military and ridiculously many people in prison. Maybe take a cut at those things.
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On October 03 2013 20:05 weekendracer wrote:Show nested quote +[B]
As far as I have seen, the Dems position is entirely reasonable. It's not a negotiation as the Republicans aren't giving anything up, they are demanding something in return for their support for something they already support (raising the debt ceiling). They want to vote for it, but only on condition that Obamacare is delayed, and they already lost on that issue before, so it should not be up for discussion realistically, and the debt ceiling should not be used as a negotiation tool.
Sufficient Republicans are being idiots about it, hence the screwed up position. Political parties fighting against each other rather than trying to help the country they are supposed to be in charge of. It's not reasonable to continue to spend yourself into insurmountable debt. If your wife/husband ran up 100% of your income in debt on credit cards on intangible items, what would you do? Have a discussion and come to a 'consensus' with her, or cut up the damn cards and declare bankruptcy or work for years to pay off the debt you incurred? The 'fringe' element of the Republican party are people like myself who are tired of this. We are enslaving ourselves and our children for the sake of feel good spending. We borrow money from China, to GIVE to other countries or people who refuse to get a job. We owe this 17 Trillion dollars, if we are good stewards, we will repay it. That means pain, same as it would for you in your personal life. Besides the fact that they are devaluing the dollar by doing so making everything more expensive. Do away with it all, let charities help the poor. Somehow we survived a couple hundred prosperous years before this became the 'norm' we are forced to live with. If you are too proud to go to church once a week, you deserve to go hungry. Maybe atheists would start their own charities and help those who have no religious beliefs. Simply put, if I am forced to provide something with the threat of violence, I am not a free man. I am a slave. I will not accept this for myself, much less my children.
I agree. We can't keep spending money on things we don't need. We should disband 90% of our standing army and sell most of our weapons and weapons research to europe. That should free up enough money to maybe start chipping away at the 15 TRILLION we have already spent. We could work for more than lifetime at our current expenditures and still end up in more debt, Affordable Health Care Act is nothing compared to what we spend on the army each year.
We would have to get rid of everything the government provides to start making a dent in that 15-17 trillion. We could do a 100% income tax rate on every person in the US, cut all spending what soever and still take more than a year to pay it off. No paying military employees, no borrowing money, no making new weapons, NO SPENDING AT ALL.
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On October 03 2013 20:05 weekendracer wrote:Show nested quote +[B]
As far as I have seen, the Dems position is entirely reasonable. It's not a negotiation as the Republicans aren't giving anything up, they are demanding something in return for their support for something they already support (raising the debt ceiling). They want to vote for it, but only on condition that Obamacare is delayed, and they already lost on that issue before, so it should not be up for discussion realistically, and the debt ceiling should not be used as a negotiation tool.
Sufficient Republicans are being idiots about it, hence the screwed up position. Political parties fighting against each other rather than trying to help the country they are supposed to be in charge of. It's not reasonable to continue to spend yourself into insurmountable debt. If your wife/husband ran up 100% of your income in debt on credit cards on intangible items, what would you do? Have a discussion and come to a 'consensus' with her, or cut up the damn cards and declare bankruptcy or work for years to pay off the debt you incurred? The 'fringe' element of the Republican party are people like myself who are tired of this. We are enslaving ourselves and our children for the sake of feel good spending. We borrow money from China, to GIVE to other countries or people who refuse to get a job. We owe this 17 Trillion dollars, if we are good stewards, we will repay it. That means pain, same as it would for you in your personal life. Besides the fact that they are devaluing the dollar by doing so making everything more expensive. Do away with it all, let charities help the poor. Somehow we survived a couple hundred prosperous years before this became the 'norm' we are forced to live with. If you are too proud to go to church once a week, you deserve to go hungry. Maybe atheists would start their own charities and help those who have no religious beliefs. Simply put, if I am forced to provide something with the threat of violence, I am not a free man. I am a slave. I will not accept this for myself, much less my children.
According to Krugman, and actually according to most serious economists except maybe Rogoff and a couple of really hardcore austerians, the problem of American economy now is NOT its debt. But of course, you have Paul Ryan and Fox News and the whole propaganda apparatus of the Republican party screaming the opposite, so clueless people believe that we are in a debt crisis. We are not.
You can start with
Lydia DePillis has an interesting piece interviewing Paul Stebbins — a CEO who was very involved with Fix the Debt — in which Stebbins acknowledges that business is part of the problem in Washington, and proceeds to illustrate, unintentionally, just why that is. You see, if he’s any indication, big business is completely clueless about both the economics and the politics of the situation.
In the world according to Stebbins, debt and deficits are at the heart of America’s economic problem. He doesn’t even make the case — he just claims that it’s obvious according to the facts. No notion whatsoever that we might have slow growth because we’re reducing the deficit too fast; no acknowledgment that the empirical case for debt panic has collapsed. You get the sense that he’s completely unaware of the actual debates that have taken place about economic policy, probably unaware of how much the actual deficit and forecasts of future debt have changed. So he’s angry at Washington for not facing up to a fake problem.
And on the political side, it’s all false equivalence. The AARP, fighting against cuts to benefits, is just like Republicans threatening to plunge us into debt crisis if Obama doesn’t kill health reform. The Club for Growth, threatening any Republican who steps out of line, is just like … me, making fun of groups like Fix the Debt.
In short, this particular CEO comes across as completely out of touch with the reality of our economic and political situation. And then he wonders why politicians won’t listen to people like him.
The thing is, I suspect that he’s typical. Corporate America is led by men who may be very good at their jobs (or not, in some cases), but have no grasp at all of the real issues facing America as a whole — the special problems created by an economy stuck in a liquidity trap, the paralysis caused by the radicalization of the GOP. They can throw lots of money at Washington, and it’s effective at tilting policies on microeconomic issues their way. But they have no influence on the big decisions, because they don’t even understand what those big decisions are.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/fools-and-fixers/
and if you don't believe my claim about austerians and serious economists:
Where Are The Austerian Economists?
I’ve been part of a discussion over the direction of economic policy debate — as opposed to the direction of actual economic policy — in which an interesting question has been raised: which prominent economists are now making the best case for fiscal austerity? It’s a tough question to answer, because at this point it’s hard to find any prominent economists making that case.
By “prominent”, by the way, I’m trying not to make a personal judgment. I may think that [redacted] is actually not too bright, and doesn’t deserve his reputation, while I may think that [redacted] is actually a far better economist than many others with bigger professional reputations, but that’s not the question here; the question is which economists with big reputations and large citation indexes are making the austerian case.
And the answer is, it’s hard to think of any. Alberto Alesina, once the guru of expansionary austerity, is still defending his earlier research, but not playing a major role in current policy debate. Reinhart and Rogoff, whose 90-percent cliff was once gospel, are defending their professional reputations while trying to move on, but aren’t lending their voices to calls for continuing austerity. Who’s left?
Yes, you can find economists at right-wing think tanks and some international organizations making the austerian case, but again, I’m talking about economists with big independent reputations, justified or not. And I can’t think of any. That wing of austerianism has simply dissolved.
And as far as we can tell, it makes no difference. Have Paul Ryan, George Osborne, Olli Rehn, Wolfgang Schäuble changed their tune even a bit? No, they’re busy claiming one quarter of positive growth as vindication.
For those who like to think that serious economic debates matter, it has been a humbling experience.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/23/where-are-the-austerian-economists/
What is really interesting about this paper, is that it shows how general public think they know about economy and what's going on although they have no fucking clue and listen to politicians and ideologists rather than economists.
Interestingly enough, those same people listen to their ideologists rather than scientists when it comes to climate change. But well, propaganda has always worked better than rigorous and scientific complex demonstration. World is so simple when its all about "zomg government so evil" which is basically the bottom line of Republican ideology.
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On October 03 2013 20:07 Parnage wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 19:31 b0rt_ wrote:On October 03 2013 18:31 Nacl(Draq) wrote:
Obamacare aka Affordable Healthcare act is a law, it was found constitutional by the supreme court. Not funding it is against the law. The time for discussion about what it should be is over. They already had lots of chances to change it and they didn't. You can't just shut down the government cause you're unhappy you lost. This is causing people to become jobless while the people who shut down the government still get paid.
If I don't want to pay taxes on something am I allowed to do that? Who holds the government responsible for its actions... Exactly, where does this end? If the GOP get power next election (I hope for the world they never do) then should the democrats hold them to ransom for whatever they like? It's law. Hey, as we know once it's the law you can never change things, and the courts have always been correct on every issue. Just read up on that Dred Scott fellow. Saying something is the law doesn't mean it's right. Not that I am implying the Act is wrong or right I really don't care at this point. The ramifications or lack thereof will be proven down the line. The government has done this before, it'll most likely do this again it happens when the sides don't want to work together. The funny bit is watching all the news sources point to things like Parks being closed as big issues all of a sudden while the National Park's are literally falling apart due to being ignored otherwise. Besides I don't remember seeing many people except "fringes" complaining about the Senate never signing off on a Budget for what? 3 years now? I do find politics much more amusing thanks to this, it's neat watching history play out before you.
The issue isn't that laws can change. The issue is that congress is trying to change the law. That is up to the supreme court, checks and balances. You can't just say, "i'm better than the person who exists to keep me in balance."
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On October 03 2013 20:11 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 20:05 weekendracer wrote:[B]
As far as I have seen, the Dems position is entirely reasonable. It's not a negotiation as the Republicans aren't giving anything up, they are demanding something in return for their support for something they already support (raising the debt ceiling). They want to vote for it, but only on condition that Obamacare is delayed, and they already lost on that issue before, so it should not be up for discussion realistically, and the debt ceiling should not be used as a negotiation tool.
Sufficient Republicans are being idiots about it, hence the screwed up position. Political parties fighting against each other rather than trying to help the country they are supposed to be in charge of. Simply put, if I am forced to provide something with the threat of violence, I am not a free man. I am a slave. I will not accept this for myself, much less my children. You should overthrow the government and in the process abolish all taxes and government insitutions. Did wonders in Somalia.
Somalia is one of the countries that are in such turmoil that Doctors Without Borders had to leave because certain groups in Somalia were killing doctors, sometimes at the encouragement of public figures.
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On October 03 2013 20:17 Nacl(Draq) wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 20:11 Doublemint wrote:On October 03 2013 20:05 weekendracer wrote:[B]
As far as I have seen, the Dems position is entirely reasonable. It's not a negotiation as the Republicans aren't giving anything up, they are demanding something in return for their support for something they already support (raising the debt ceiling). They want to vote for it, but only on condition that Obamacare is delayed, and they already lost on that issue before, so it should not be up for discussion realistically, and the debt ceiling should not be used as a negotiation tool.
Sufficient Republicans are being idiots about it, hence the screwed up position. Political parties fighting against each other rather than trying to help the country they are supposed to be in charge of. Simply put, if I am forced to provide something with the threat of violence, I am not a free man. I am a slave. I will not accept this for myself, much less my children. You should overthrow the government and in the process abolish all taxes and government insitutions. Did wonders in Somalia. Somali is one of the countries that are in such turmoil that Doctors Without Borders had to leave because certain groups in Somalia were killing doctors, sometimes at the encouragement of public figures.
Thank you for helping me to make my point.
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On October 03 2013 20:21 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 20:17 Nacl(Draq) wrote:On October 03 2013 20:11 Doublemint wrote:On October 03 2013 20:05 weekendracer wrote:[B]
As far as I have seen, the Dems position is entirely reasonable. It's not a negotiation as the Republicans aren't giving anything up, they are demanding something in return for their support for something they already support (raising the debt ceiling). They want to vote for it, but only on condition that Obamacare is delayed, and they already lost on that issue before, so it should not be up for discussion realistically, and the debt ceiling should not be used as a negotiation tool.
Sufficient Republicans are being idiots about it, hence the screwed up position. Political parties fighting against each other rather than trying to help the country they are supposed to be in charge of. Simply put, if I am forced to provide something with the threat of violence, I am not a free man. I am a slave. I will not accept this for myself, much less my children. You should overthrow the government and in the process abolish all taxes and government insitutions. Did wonders in Somalia. Somali is one of the countries that are in such turmoil that Doctors Without Borders had to leave because certain groups in Somalia were killing doctors, sometimes at the encouragement of public figures. Thank you for helping me to make my point.
Was just providing more info. Didn't know what point you were trying to make so I made my response neutral. 
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On October 03 2013 20:22 Nacl(Draq) wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 20:21 Doublemint wrote:On October 03 2013 20:17 Nacl(Draq) wrote:On October 03 2013 20:11 Doublemint wrote:On October 03 2013 20:05 weekendracer wrote:[B]
As far as I have seen, the Dems position is entirely reasonable. It's not a negotiation as the Republicans aren't giving anything up, they are demanding something in return for their support for something they already support (raising the debt ceiling). They want to vote for it, but only on condition that Obamacare is delayed, and they already lost on that issue before, so it should not be up for discussion realistically, and the debt ceiling should not be used as a negotiation tool.
Sufficient Republicans are being idiots about it, hence the screwed up position. Political parties fighting against each other rather than trying to help the country they are supposed to be in charge of. Simply put, if I am forced to provide something with the threat of violence, I am not a free man. I am a slave. I will not accept this for myself, much less my children. You should overthrow the government and in the process abolish all taxes and government insitutions. Did wonders in Somalia. Somali is one of the countries that are in such turmoil that Doctors Without Borders had to leave because certain groups in Somalia were killing doctors, sometimes at the encouragement of public figures. Thank you for helping me to make my point. Was just providing more info. Didn't know what point you were trying to make so I made my response neutral.
No harm done
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On October 03 2013 20:17 Nacl(Draq) wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 20:11 Doublemint wrote:On October 03 2013 20:05 weekendracer wrote:[B]
As far as I have seen, the Dems position is entirely reasonable. It's not a negotiation as the Republicans aren't giving anything up, they are demanding something in return for their support for something they already support (raising the debt ceiling). They want to vote for it, but only on condition that Obamacare is delayed, and they already lost on that issue before, so it should not be up for discussion realistically, and the debt ceiling should not be used as a negotiation tool.
Sufficient Republicans are being idiots about it, hence the screwed up position. Political parties fighting against each other rather than trying to help the country they are supposed to be in charge of. Simply put, if I am forced to provide something with the threat of violence, I am not a free man. I am a slave. I will not accept this for myself, much less my children. You should overthrow the government and in the process abolish all taxes and government insitutions. Did wonders in Somalia. Somalia is one of the countries that are in such turmoil that Doctors Without Borders had to leave because certain groups in Somalia were killing doctors, sometimes at the encouragement of public figures.
You got his point, congratz
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Hey, as we know once it's the law you can never change things, and the courts have always been correct on every issue. Just read up on that Dred Scott fellow. Saying something is the law doesn't mean it's right. Not that I am implying the Act is wrong or right I really don't care at this point. The ramifications or lack thereof will be proven down the line.
Why is it that everyone trying to argue against the law thing uses "well its law so it can never be changed rite?" - it can, obviously. There's alot of retarded rules out there, all of which will get sorted out eventually. Without government shutdowns and threats to a whole nation. You don't overthrow a law that you don't like by just taking the nation hostage. There's a huge difference.
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On October 03 2013 20:05 weekendracer wrote:Show nested quote +[B]
As far as I have seen, the Dems position is entirely reasonable. It's not a negotiation as the Republicans aren't giving anything up, they are demanding something in return for their support for something they already support (raising the debt ceiling). They want to vote for it, but only on condition that Obamacare is delayed, and they already lost on that issue before, so it should not be up for discussion realistically, and the debt ceiling should not be used as a negotiation tool.
Sufficient Republicans are being idiots about it, hence the screwed up position. Political parties fighting against each other rather than trying to help the country they are supposed to be in charge of. It's not reasonable to continue to spend yourself into insurmountable debt. If your wife/husband ran up 100% of your income in debt on credit cards on intangible items, what would you do? Have a discussion and come to a 'consensus' with her, or cut up the damn cards and declare bankruptcy or work for years to pay off the debt you incurred? The 'fringe' element of the Republican party are people like myself who are tired of this. We are enslaving ourselves and our children for the sake of feel good spending. We borrow money from China, to GIVE to other countries or people who refuse to get a job. We owe this 17 Trillion dollars, if we are good stewards, we will repay it. That means pain, same as it would for you in your personal life. Besides the fact that they are devaluing the dollar by doing so making everything more expensive. Do away with it all, let charities help the poor. Somehow we survived a couple hundred prosperous years before this became the 'norm' we are forced to live with. If you are too proud to go to church once a week, you deserve to go hungry. Maybe atheists would start their own charities and help those who have no religious beliefs. Simply put, if I am forced to provide something with the threat of violence, I am not a free man. I am a slave. I will not accept this for myself, much less my children.
You do realize how ridiculous that sounds?
You talk about being "enslaved" then make the comment "Somehow we survived a couple hundred prosperous years before this became the 'norm' we are forced to live with." Somehow?........ Really... Reaaaaallllyy
Typical....
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On October 01 2013 21:39 Th1rdEye wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 21:32 jeremycafe wrote:It will all be over in a day or two, the country will move on, people will still get paid. Only ones who feel the suck are people who had plans to visit national parks. I have a 7 day backpacking trip planned for this friday, if the park is still closed by then I will surely be upset Part of me believes this to be true as well. They all just wanted some vacation time. Who wouldn't? It was beautiful this past weekend. Anyway, it doesnt undermine the fact that Obamacare is a big big big big mistake and needs to be revised. It cannot pass in its current form. The middle class will be hurting. Most people work for corporations who already do not want to provide anything for their employees at times, and this will just give tons of otherwise healthy americans to pay for healthcare, all the while having their hours cut at work so they need to find part time work elsewhere which ends up costing more in the long run anyway. It's actually a pretty serious matter....I can't express how distasteful I am towards the Obamacare bill.
It already did pass. Supreme court said it was ok. Send it back to the supreme court to overrule the decision, if it passes again then fund it. Congress doesn't have the power to find a law unconstitutional.
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On October 01 2013 21:32 jeremycafe wrote:It will all be over in a day or two, the country will move on, people will still get paid. Only ones who feel the suck are people who had plans to visit national parks. I have a 7 day backpacking trip planned for this friday, if the park is still closed by then I will surely be upset
Dunno; my friends are losing (science) internships and grants left and right. Science is the first thing to go, even medical science suffers. CDC and NASA are affected, etc.
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On October 03 2013 20:07 guruPanda wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 17:43 Phenny wrote:On October 03 2013 17:34 TyrantPotato wrote:
Ill be brief.
The republicans are pathetic. Why though? It's the democrats fault. The repubs showed up to negotiate obamacare adjustments (making it fractionally less terrible), the democrats didn't even bother to show up because they're not even willing to discuss it and listen to what the repubs have to say (resulting in budget failing and govt shutdown). Imo this makes the Dems incredibly childish in addition to basically being all or nothing tyrants on a crusade to increase the size of the state at all costs. Obamacare is LAW. It was ruled constitutional by the supreme court. The congress voted fot it. Obama was elected twice with obamacare in his program. There is NOTHING TO DISCUSS, which is why the democrats aren't discussing it. It doesn't matter if you think it is a good law, it is law. If a football team loses a game, they don't say "GIVE US 20 MORE POINTS OR WE SHUT DOWN THE FUCKING NFL!" which would be about what the GOP is doing right now.If the GOP wants Obamacare to be revoked, they should campaign with that in their program in 2016, win the election, and revoke it. Let's hope that doesn't happen.
Is that you, Jon Stewart? 
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-september-30-2013/jon-stewart-s-rockin--shutdown-eve
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On October 03 2013 20:37 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 20:07 guruPanda wrote:On October 03 2013 17:43 Phenny wrote:On October 03 2013 17:34 TyrantPotato wrote:
Ill be brief.
The republicans are pathetic. Why though? It's the democrats fault. The repubs showed up to negotiate obamacare adjustments (making it fractionally less terrible), the democrats didn't even bother to show up because they're not even willing to discuss it and listen to what the repubs have to say (resulting in budget failing and govt shutdown). Imo this makes the Dems incredibly childish in addition to basically being all or nothing tyrants on a crusade to increase the size of the state at all costs. Obamacare is LAW. It was ruled constitutional by the supreme court. The congress voted fot it. Obama was elected twice with obamacare in his program. There is NOTHING TO DISCUSS, which is why the democrats aren't discussing it. It doesn't matter if you think it is a good law, it is law. If a football team loses a game, they don't say "GIVE US 20 MORE POINTS OR WE SHUT DOWN THE FUCKING NFL!" which would be about what the GOP is doing right now.If the GOP wants Obamacare to be revoked, they should campaign with that in their program in 2016, win the election, and revoke it. Let's hope that doesn't happen. Is that you, Jon Stewart? http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-september-30-2013/jon-stewart-s-rockin--shutdown-eve
Haha nope, can't deny I got that form him though
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