On October 03 2013 02:26 intrigue wrote: press coverage within the US regarding the shutdown was really disappointing yesterday. this article says it pretty well. at least they're growing some balls today.
On October 03 2013 01:43 shell wrote: Yes but what has happened in Europe is USA's fault especially since:
- suprime crisis was a USA Problem - USA's financial system benefited from selling these funds to euro countrys, banks by means of corruption and other less ethical methods (OUR FAULT TOO, WE KNOW, our politicians suck and need votes to stay in power) - USA's Financial raiting companys attacking our countrys and lowering their ratings to less the garbage while usa STOPS services for lack of money and didn't even go down a bit..
Why do we still remain allies is something that beats me..
PS: not a rant againt USA people or the country, just your politicians, evil companys(exxon, JP morgan, Monsanto etc..) and the ever powerfull lobyists! Travel to europe and see how he live here, you will like some of the stuff we have, for free and for everybody!
Europe's banking system was and still is way over leveraged with too many bad loans on the books. Can't blame that on the US. Can't blame the US for Europe's housing bubbles or government borrowing sprees either.
And special thanks to Ireland and the Netherlands for creating tax havens for multinationals. It's been 'really helpful' for our tax collections.
Funny coming from someone who likes to argue in favor of conservative talking points.
As someone from germany I usually get my information on this from german news as well and just read that you guys apparently decide about your spendings, taxes and how many debts you want in different sessions and completly isolated from each other (in theory)?
Is there a reason why this isn't done in one big go? I can't think of a reason as to why it should be possible to declare: no new debts, no tax raises and no cuts in spending at the same time. Not that it's happening but that's what spiegel.de explained for example as a possibility to completly shut down the government because that's obviously not possible.
On October 03 2013 01:43 shell wrote: Yes but what has happened in Europe is USA's fault especially since:
- suprime crisis was a USA Problem - USA's financial system benefited from selling these funds to euro countrys, banks by means of corruption and other less ethical methods (OUR FAULT TOO, WE KNOW, our politicians suck and need votes to stay in power) - USA's Financial raiting companys attacking our countrys and lowering their ratings to less the garbage while usa STOPS services for lack of money and didn't even go down a bit..
Why do we still remain allies is something that beats me..
PS: not a rant againt USA people or the country, just your politicians, evil companys(exxon, JP morgan, Monsanto etc..) and the ever powerfull lobyists! Travel to europe and see how he live here, you will like some of the stuff we have, for free and for everybody!
Europe's banking system was and still is way over leveraged with too many bad loans on the books. Can't blame that on the US. Can't blame the US for Europe's housing bubbles or government borrowing sprees either.
And special thanks to Ireland and the Netherlands for creating tax havens for multinationals. It's been 'really helpful' for our tax collections.
Funny coming from someone who likes to argue in favor of conservative talking points.
I don't think there's anything funny or contradictory about my comment. Both Reps and Dems are against unnecessary off-shoring of corporate assets. They do disagree over what counts as necessary and how to deal with it though.
My dad works in the civil service and he is getting payed like half of what he gets paid normally, and something like they will pay the rest at a later time or something? So fucked up. Washington would rather play politics as usual than do something fucking useful.
They get paid either way though, not like they would give a shit...
The Tea Party movement is the most radical, intransigent, and propagandistic secular cult to occur in the Western world, and gain a position of great influence, since 1933.
At least if anyone can think of a better candidate for that title, I'd like to hear it.
On October 03 2013 04:32 GhastlyUprising wrote: The Tea Party movement is the most radical, intransigent, and propagandistic secular cult to occur in the Western world, and gain a position of great influence, since 1933.
At least if anyone can think of a better candidate for that title, I'd like to hear it.
Just cause you don't agree with what people say doesn't mean they are as bad as hitler.
On October 03 2013 04:32 GhastlyUprising wrote: The Tea Party movement is the most radical, intransigent, and propagandistic secular cult to occur in the Western world, and gain a position of great influence, since 1933.
At least if anyone can think of a better candidate for that title, I'd like to hear it.
Just cause you don't agree with what people say doesn't mean they are as bad as hitler.
On October 03 2013 04:32 GhastlyUprising wrote: The Tea Party movement is the most radical, intransigent, and propagandistic secular cult to occur in the Western world, and gain a position of great influence, since 1933.
At least if anyone can think of a better candidate for that title, I'd like to hear it.
Just cause you don't agree with what people say doesn't mean they are as bad as hitler.
On October 03 2013 04:32 GhastlyUprising wrote: The Tea Party movement is the most radical, intransigent, and propagandistic secular cult to occur in the Western world, and gain a position of great influence, since 1933.
At least if anyone can think of a better candidate for that title, I'd like to hear it.
Just cause you don't agree with what people say doesn't mean they are as bad as hitler.
As written in that link, "Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies", not just Hitler. But technically he didn't say they were as bad as Hitler, just the worst cult to appear since the nazis. Godwin's law should still apply, since it does invoke the nazism comparison.
On October 03 2013 04:32 GhastlyUprising wrote: The Tea Party movement is the most radical, intransigent, and propagandistic secular cult to occur in the Western world, and gain a position of great influence, since 1933.
At least if anyone can think of a better candidate for that title, I'd like to hear it.
Just cause you don't agree with what people say doesn't mean they are as bad as hitler.
As much as I despise the TEA Party and would love to pin them as Nazis more than anything, they are far from it. Yes, you have stuff like this
but something tells me most of the TEA Party condemns this guy. Also, all of the Tea Baggers I know take a lot of pride in being part of a nation that defeated fascism in Europe and Asia. Plus, the Nazis were pretty anti-capitalist, but pro-corporate whereas the TEA Party seems to be pro-capitalist, but very critical of corporations, bailouts in particular. It's funny how they were originally a grassroots right-wing populist movement but were then hijacked by the corporate elite whose original existence was based around opposing.
There's no problem in taking pride in defeating the nazis. The problem starts if your "party" thinks your nation was created by god to police all others. That's where it get's iffy.
On October 03 2013 05:11 Shiragaku wrote: the TEA Party seems to be pro-capitalist, but very critical of corporations, bailouts in particular. It's funny how they were originally a grassroots right-wing populist movement but were then hijacked by the corporate elite whose original existence was based around opposing.
That's a bit of a strange outlook tbh. The tea party is in favor of corporations (private interest, etc) but believe that corporations which can't survive on their own should just die, as dictated by free market capitalism. They're not particularly critical to corporations, they're mostly critical of how the government spends taxes to help the "bad" ones.
And you can be sure they wouldn't have been nearly as angry about the bailout if it had happened under a republican government. They just liked to paint the initiative of the democrats in black to make them look bad.
On October 03 2013 05:11 Shiragaku wrote: the TEA Party seems to be pro-capitalist, but very critical of corporations, bailouts in particular. It's funny how they were originally a grassroots right-wing populist movement but were then hijacked by the corporate elite whose original existence was based around opposing.
That's a bit of a strange outlook tbh. The tea party is in favor of corporations (private interest, etc) but believe that corporations which can't survive on their own should just die, as dictated by free market capitalism. They're not particularly critical to corporations, they're mostly critical of how the government spends taxes to help the "bad" ones.
And you can be sure they wouldn't have been nearly as angry about the bailout if it had happened under a republican government. They just liked to paint the initiative of the democrats in black to make them look bad.
Yeah, I always got that vibe from TEA Baggers :/ They are one of the most inconsistent political groups I came across. And what disturbs me more is how opportunistic they are and how...I don't wanna use Orwellian since he is overused, but just plain messed up when talking about their language.
Bleh...but I prefer to call the TEA Party batshit insane rather than to analyze their ideology because I am not sure if they really have much of an ideology anymore (don't nitpick me Farva or sam). They seem like children at this point just opposing Democrats just for the sake of it :/
On October 03 2013 05:11 Shiragaku wrote: As much as I despise the TEA Party and would love to pin them as Nazis more than anything, they are far from it. Yes, you have stuff like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F421AyTqnbI but something tells me most of the TEA Party condemns this guy. Also, all of the Tea Baggers I know take a lot of pride in being part of a nation that defeated fascism in Europe and Asia. Plus, the Nazis were pretty anti-capitalist, but pro-corporate whereas the TEA Party seems to be pro-capitalist, but very critical of corporations, bailouts in particular. It's funny how they were originally a grassroots right-wing populist movement but were then hijacked by the corporate elite whose original existence was based around opposing.
I just don't think that the financial believes of nazis is what made nazis nazis... Good for them if they're not anti-capitalists but that or the lack of it really wasn't the issue with nazis to begin with.
On October 03 2013 05:11 Shiragaku wrote: the TEA Party seems to be pro-capitalist, but very critical of corporations, bailouts in particular. It's funny how they were originally a grassroots right-wing populist movement but were then hijacked by the corporate elite whose original existence was based around opposing.
That's a bit of a strange outlook tbh. The tea party is in favor of corporations (private interest, etc) but believe that corporations which can't survive on their own should just die, as dictated by free market capitalism. They're not particularly critical to corporations, they're mostly critical of how the government spends taxes to help the "bad" ones.
And you can be sure they wouldn't have been nearly as angry about the bailout if it had happened under a republican government. They just liked to paint the initiative of the democrats in black to make them look bad.
Yeah, I always got that vibe from TEA Baggers :/ They are one of the most inconsistent political groups I came across. And what disturbs me more is how opportunistic they are and how...I don't wanna use Orwellian since he is overused, but just plain messed up.
Bleh...but I prefer to call the TEA Party batshit insane rather than to analyze their ideology because I am not sure if they really have much of an ideology anymore. They seem like children at this point just opposing Democrats just for the sake of it :/
Pretty sure that was the entire reason for their creation. After the Obama campaign's brilliant run in 2008, it was obvious the GOP was toast unless they managed to energize their base the way Obama did. The tea party was 100% essential in order for the GOP to not just slip into irrelevance. It gave them the breath of life they needed to figure out a way to transition away. Unfortunately for them (great for the world), it got a bit out of control, and it is now making their prospects for 2014 look very grim. After this whole stunt, I think a lot of the more moderate conservatives are going to just opt out of voting when it comes down to democrat vs tea party. Before, they likely thought "might be a little extreme, but I agree with more of what they are doing". Now, its clearly just obstructive, which is gonna lose the GOP a lot more moderate voters. Likely more than they gained from the tea party to begin with.
On October 03 2013 05:11 Shiragaku wrote: the TEA Party seems to be pro-capitalist, but very critical of corporations, bailouts in particular. It's funny how they were originally a grassroots right-wing populist movement but were then hijacked by the corporate elite whose original existence was based around opposing.
That's a bit of a strange outlook tbh. The tea party is in favor of corporations (private interest, etc) but believe that corporations which can't survive on their own should just die, as dictated by free market capitalism. They're not particularly critical to corporations, they're mostly critical of how the government spends taxes to help the "bad" ones.
And you can be sure they wouldn't have been nearly as angry about the bailout if it had happened under a republican government. They just liked to paint the initiative of the democrats in black to make them look bad.
Yeah, I always got that vibe from TEA Baggers :/ They are one of the most inconsistent political groups I came across. And what disturbs me more is how opportunistic they are and how...I don't wanna use Orwellian since he is overused, but just plain messed up.
Bleh...but I prefer to call the TEA Party batshit insane rather than to analyze their ideology because I am not sure if they really have much of an ideology anymore. They seem like children at this point just opposing Democrats just for the sake of it :/
Pretty sure that was the entire reason for their creation. After the Obama campaign's brilliant run in 2008, it was obvious the GOP was toast unless they managed to energize their base the way Obama did. The tea party was 100% essential in order for the GOP to not just slip into irrelevance. It gave them the breath of life they needed to figure out a way to transition away. Unfortunately for them (great for the world), it got a bit out of control, and it is now making their prospects for 2014 look very grim. After this whole stunt, I think a lot of the more moderate conservatives are going to just opt out of voting when it comes down to democrat vs tea party. Before, they likely thought "might be a little extreme, but I agree with more of what they are doing". Now, its clearly just obstructive, which is gonna lose the GOP a lot more moderate voters. Likely more than they gained from the tea party to begin with.
The GOP needed a way to reach out to undecided voters, the Tea Party movement has driven them further and further away from the Republican camp. Elections aren't about getting your hardcore members to vote for you. Its about winning the rest of the country.
On October 03 2013 05:11 Shiragaku wrote: the TEA Party seems to be pro-capitalist, but very critical of corporations, bailouts in particular. It's funny how they were originally a grassroots right-wing populist movement but were then hijacked by the corporate elite whose original existence was based around opposing.
That's a bit of a strange outlook tbh. The tea party is in favor of corporations (private interest, etc) but believe that corporations which can't survive on their own should just die, as dictated by free market capitalism. They're not particularly critical to corporations, they're mostly critical of how the government spends taxes to help the "bad" ones.
And you can be sure they wouldn't have been nearly as angry about the bailout if it had happened under a republican government. They just liked to paint the initiative of the democrats in black to make them look bad.
just as a reminder, the bailouts were under George W. so it did happen under a republican.
and for some of the people in this thread please stop speaking in generalizations. It makes you sound like a thoughtless drone, spouting ideologies that you don't actually understand. Have a problem with the policies, not the people. Stop saying what "tea baggers" are or aren't or what liberals are or aren't. People are people, ignorance is ignorance, and it cannot be cured through gross generalization or bigotry.
On October 03 2013 05:11 Shiragaku wrote: the TEA Party seems to be pro-capitalist, but very critical of corporations, bailouts in particular. It's funny how they were originally a grassroots right-wing populist movement but were then hijacked by the corporate elite whose original existence was based around opposing.
That's a bit of a strange outlook tbh. The tea party is in favor of corporations (private interest, etc) but believe that corporations which can't survive on their own should just die, as dictated by free market capitalism. They're not particularly critical to corporations, they're mostly critical of how the government spends taxes to help the "bad" ones.
And you can be sure they wouldn't have been nearly as angry about the bailout if it had happened under a republican government. They just liked to paint the initiative of the democrats in black to make them look bad.
Yeah, I always got that vibe from TEA Baggers :/ They are one of the most inconsistent political groups I came across. And what disturbs me more is how opportunistic they are and how...I don't wanna use Orwellian since he is overused, but just plain messed up.
Bleh...but I prefer to call the TEA Party batshit insane rather than to analyze their ideology because I am not sure if they really have much of an ideology anymore. They seem like children at this point just opposing Democrats just for the sake of it :/
Pretty sure that was the entire reason for their creation. After the Obama campaign's brilliant run in 2008, it was obvious the GOP was toast unless they managed to energize their base the way Obama did. The tea party was 100% essential in order for the GOP to not just slip into irrelevance. It gave them the breath of life they needed to figure out a way to transition away. Unfortunately for them (great for the world), it got a bit out of control, and it is now making their prospects for 2014 look very grim. After this whole stunt, I think a lot of the more moderate conservatives are going to just opt out of voting when it comes down to democrat vs tea party. Before, they likely thought "might be a little extreme, but I agree with more of what they are doing". Now, its clearly just obstructive, which is gonna lose the GOP a lot more moderate voters. Likely more than they gained from the tea party to begin with.
The GOP needed a way to reach out to undecided voters, the Tea Party movement has driven them further and further away from the Republican camp. Elections aren't about getting your hardcore members to vote for you. Its about winning the rest of the country.
Im sorry, this just doesn't compute. Mccain and Romney are about as Liberal as you can get while still being a Republican. The strategy that Democrats suggest for Republicans has failed (you can include Bob Dole as well) 3/3 times it has been tried. If people actually wanted compromise, Romney would be President. He is the most pragmatic and compromising Presidential candidate since Eisenhower.
EPT
