EPTUK Politics Mega-thread - Page 546
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Maverick_2009
Somewhere2002 Posts
On August 28 2019 23:23 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: So when does the next Polling in Scotland take place regarding a referendum on Independence? Targeted dates were between 2020-2022 but seeing as this has just happened, Sturgeon might fast-track it and have it towards the middle of next year. | ||
KwarK
United States44372 Posts
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Dan HH
Romania9246 Posts
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KwarK
United States44372 Posts
You can’t just do this. It’s chaos. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22658 Posts
On August 29 2019 00:08 KwarK wrote: How the fuck is it a thing that we still don’t know what’s going to happen on the Brexit day. Are we putting up a fence across Ireland? What kind of import controls do we plan to impose? What are we going to do for EU citizens in the UK? What deal have we secured for British expats living in the EU? You can’t just do this. It’s chaos. 1) ignore it, let the EU deal with it. 2) none, cause I doubt they have the personal for it and its easier for the rich to make buckets of money without pesky controls for regulations 3) let them stay for now, the government won't care that they live in a state of legal limbo. 4) none, trust in the EU not to kick them out. | ||
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KwarK
United States44372 Posts
On August 29 2019 00:18 Gorsameth wrote: 1) ignore it, let the EU deal with it. 2) none, cause I doubt they have the personal for it and its easier for the rich to make buckets of money without pesky controls for regulations 3) let them stay for now, the government won't care that they live in a state of legal limbo. 4) none, trust in the EU not to kick them out. I’m pretty sure refusing to enforce a border is a violation of WTO rules. At the very least the EU will be forced to close their side of the border while they work out enforcement of the external tariff on goods entering the common market. The UK is going full rogue state here and literally nobody wanted this. How we got from a 52/48 leave vote to this is insanity. | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
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zeo
Serbia6343 Posts
On August 29 2019 00:08 KwarK wrote: How the fuck is it a thing that we still don’t know what’s going to happen on the Brexit day. Are we putting up a fence across Ireland? What kind of import controls do we plan to impose? What are we going to do for EU citizens in the UK? What deal have we secured for British expats living in the EU? You can’t just do this. It’s chaos. The same import controls the UK has now for non-EU countries. Makes you really think about how useless May actually was if this was the only option left to finish Brexit and carry out the will of the British people to leave the EU. Spent two years doing fuck all and let the country get into this position. 'Oh no, we can't abuse Parliament anymore to stall Brexit and send the country even more into the shitter for petty political gain'. Well maybe you should have used those two years to work out a Brexit the benefited even the remainers | ||
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KwarK
United States44372 Posts
On August 29 2019 00:34 Longshank wrote: The timing and the speed of this announcement strongly suggests Boris plan isn't necessarily to leave without a deal but to get his GE in October. Yesterday the opposition shelved their plans on a VONC and agreed to go for legislative means to stop no deal. Boris needs an election, it will be impossible to govern with a majority of one, but can't call one himself or he'll lose his Brexit momentum.. That’s not a viable way to govern. The plan needs to be known years in advance on something like this. The NI fence can’t be erected on a week’s notice. Right now the only sane way to plan is that there will be no deal because that’s the default and also the worst case scenario. Administrators can not afford to wait and see until the day before Brexit. Businesses can’t afford to not know whether they will be allowed to make deliveries until goods are in transit. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
I don't really understand how the referendum turned into this. This is a complete fuck-the-people move by Boris. I don't really see how they expect to retain power through the next election - forget retaining through any no-confidence votes with this. I applaud them for their boldness though, and will be watching with popcorn in hand. Looking at the world a decade ago and now is a pretty stark contrast. | ||
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KwarK
United States44372 Posts
On August 29 2019 00:35 zeo wrote: The same import controls the UK has now for non-EU countries. Makes you really think about how useless May actually was if this was the only option left to finish Brexit and carry out the will of the British people to leave the EU. Spent two years doing fuck all and let the country get into this position. 'Oh no, we can't abuse Parliament anymore to stall Brexit and send the country even more into the shitter for petty political gain'. Well maybe you should have used those two years to work out a Brexit the benefited even the remainers The import controls the UK has now aren’t British, Britain’s import policy was the enforcement of the external EU policy. Do you not see why “just keep doing what we were doing” is a problem there? From a practical point of view, the forms importers use are EU forms filed within the EU system. When does the British government plan to make and distribute the new forms people will have to use? Because shit is already on boats coming here. Also May did all that Parliament allowed her to which is exactly nothing. Boris is sidestepping Parliamentary process to impose this apocalypse. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On August 28 2019 23:29 Maverick_2009 wrote: Targeted dates were between 2020-2022 but seeing as this has just happened, Sturgeon might fast-track it and have it towards the middle of next year. Though this might not be the smartest move. The majority in favour of leaving the UK (new leave.uk lol) is about as big as it was for leaving the EU, if I correctly recall a poll from the radio a couple days ago. Better wait a bit for the misery to hit and then vote. this wouldn't be the nicest thing to do to the public, but might be politically smart. Idk On August 29 2019 00:08 KwarK wrote: How the fuck is it a thing that we still don’t know what’s going to happen on the Brexit day. Are we putting up a fence across Ireland? What kind of import controls do we plan to impose? What are we going to do for EU citizens in the UK? What deal have we secured for British expats living in the EU? You can’t just do this. It’s chaos. In Boris's words: Have a little faith, my boy. We will wake up the giant and all will turn out well. At least that's what I expect him to say | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
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KwarK
United States44372 Posts
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Longshank
1648 Posts
On August 29 2019 00:39 KwarK wrote: That’s not a viable way to govern. The plan needs to be known years in advance on something like this. The NI fence can’t be erected on a week’s notice. Right now the only sane way to plan is that there will be no deal because that’s the default and also the worst case scenario. Administrators can not afford to wait and see until the day before Brexit. Businesses can’t afford to not know whether they will be allowed to make deliveries until goods are in transit. I 100% agree but I believe that is what he's hoping for. Recent polling suggests that the remain side is split in a way the leave side isn't. Corbyn's person and percieved ambiguity on Brexit makes it so that remain will have a much harder time pooling their votes compared to leave. In the event of a GE I suspect the Brexit Party will disappear now when it's clear that the Tories and BJ are all for leave, deal or not. We already see that with Con at 30%, Lab/LD at 20% each and BP at 15-ish%. Yay FPTP! I'm not saying it's a viable or responsible way to govern, I'm saying it's a clever tactic from Boris. | ||
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zeo
Serbia6343 Posts
On August 29 2019 00:41 KwarK wrote: The import controls the UK has now aren’t British, Britain’s import policy was the enforcement of the external EU policy. Do you not see why “just keep doing what we were doing” is a problem there? From a practical point of view, the forms importers use are EU forms filed within the EU system. When does the British government plan to make and distribute the new forms people will have to use? Because shit is already on boats coming here. Also May did all that Parliament allowed her to which is exactly nothing. Boris is sidestepping Parliamentary process to impose this apocalypse. I mean the mechanisms are all there. Just copy paste the EU way of import customs and keep doing things the way they are done now... at the start, just for everyone now... and slowly weed out and exchange the things you dont like and introduce your own system. EDIT: I don't see how else you would do it. You can't just magically invent a whole new customs procedure and have everyone know what they are doing day 1. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
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KwarK
United States44372 Posts
On August 29 2019 00:55 zeo wrote: I mean the mechanisms are all there. Just copy paste the EU way of import customs and keep doing things the way they are done now... at the start, just for everyone now... and slowly weed out and exchange the things you dont like and introduce your own system. EDIT: I don't see how else you would do it. You can't just magically invent a whole new customs procedure and have everyone know what they are doing day 1. The mechanisms in place are EU mechanisms. Let’s say I show up in November with a boatload of stuff. I say I paid my tariff in June. How does the UK verify that? I paid it to the EU system with the EU forms which the UK no longer has access to. How do they verify that what I’m bringing in matches the shipping manifest I provided in June? And that’s before we realize that there’s now 4x the quantity of goods being imported because everything from the EU is now an import. The system, which isn’t actually ours and which we don’t have access to anymore, is flooded. You’re right that you can’t magically invent a new system on day 1. The problem is that they’re trying to because the deal where all this shit gets worked out doesn’t exist. The waiver on forms for British exports to the EU doesn’t exist. If I’m placing an order today for a British good to be delivered to Germany in November then the system that it will need to be registered in doesn’t exist. I literally don’t know if I can deliver that order because Boris has to ask nicely on my behalf and he’s not talking to anyone right now. There’s a reason British companies have been desperately stockpiling everything they think they’ll need for months. They’re not stupid, they correctly identified the above problems. This is the fucking apocalypse and instead of desperately trying to implement any kind of stopgap measures like EU import/export waivers until the new system is designed Boris is fucking around with threats to not pay the exit bill if there’s no deal. We need a fucking deal. | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
I know it sucks to leave but u did vote for it, if only it meant you could roll back the bad things that EU do but you properly have to live with most of it. | ||
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