EPTUK Politics Mega-thread - Page 544
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
And of course the main concern is how over successive years, the police are now underfunded under the auspice of austerity. | ||
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Kerotan
England2111 Posts
On August 16 2019 17:34 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Then again a lot of black people in UK seem to identify with American culture instead of British so whatever. If I was that MP personally I would be worried about contributing to a preciously unknown stereotype that chicken shop = young black people = knifes. And of course the main concern is how over successive years, the police are now underfunded under the auspice of austerity. This is pretty off base. Yes a lot of Black Britons, identify strongly with an American culture, its not the be all and end all. Just looking at music, Drill and Grime (commonly associated with PoC) while borrowing from US culture, borrow heavily from elsewhere too. Basically: being Black and British is complicated as fuck and I'm white as all hell. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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rexxO
Canada44 Posts
On August 16 2019 17:34 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Then again a lot of black people in UK seem to identify with American culture instead of British so whatever. If I was that MP personally I would be worried about contributing to a preciously unknown stereotype that chicken shop = young black people = knifes. And of course the main concern is how over successive years, the police are now underfunded under the auspice of austerity. What an astonishingly ignorant take. You would benefit from investigating the history and culture of more recent UK experiences and struggles, such as the Windrush generation. There is a rich history of music and culture that descended from the postwar transatlantic migration, one that is uniquely Black and British. I would go as far as to say that the entirety of the modern (UK) electronic dance music cannon is forever indebted to these cultural developments. I also need not remind you that a lot of ancestors of the people you are talking about were the ones who toiled away under the British colonial project. EDIT: I will grant you that austerity is a big problem that has eroded the security and stability of these neighborhoods, policing included. | ||
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Kerotan
England2111 Posts
On August 16 2019 23:36 Dangermousecatdog wrote: It's not complicated at all. They are British. No matter what music they may or may not listen to. You made an argument about black Briton's identifying more with American culture and then when I point out that is overly simplistic as to how people construct their identities, you hit me with the "Actually their passport says that they are British. That's not the argument that either of us was making and its dishonest to try and make it so. Complicated there is a stand in for: the colour of your skin is still strong factor as to how you will be treated as someone who lives in the UK. It would be simplistic if it was just: The State treats white people well, everyone else bad, but its not. And this is nuance in the Knife Chicken box issue, maybe the government have some demographic data that we don't, that all those that eat at chicken cottage go on to commit knife crime, but I doubt it. At worst, as David Lammy points out, this seems to be a "Black people love fried chicken, Black people do knife crime, ergo slogans on Chicken boxes" Perhaps Lammy is right, perhaps this was the train of thought in those in government, maybe watered down slightly. Maybe PoC do purchase more fried chicken per capita and I'm just too white to notice. More likely however is that people in government have recognised that fried chicken is popular with the "youth" and they need to be doing something to tackle the Daily Mail headlines, sorry knife crime even if it is woefully ineffective at exacting change. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
He's almost as delusional as he's power hungry. Historic precedent dictates, that the leader of the biggest opposition party in parliament gets to try to form a government, right. Maybe eight weeks is a little short for multiple tries at forming a coalition of the anti no deal brexiteers? I'm also not sure whether he really wants to be the 3rd PM in a row who hasn't been voted in properly by the people. e: what's the point of this post? Displaying my exasperation after an interview I've had with (anti no deal) party members of labour, tories and lib dems, where the historic precedent was ruling out every better opportunity of a uniting senior figure that might be so much better for the caues of preventing a no deal Brexit. I was able to HEAR (!!!) the Lib Dem politician roll her eyes upward in frustration. The agony was tangible. | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
On August 18 2019 16:23 Artisreal wrote: Historic precedent dictates, that the leader of the biggest opposition party in parliament gets to try to form a government, right. I'm not sure this is necessarily the case for a Government of National Unity. From what I understand, there have been several occasions where this has been the case, most notably perhaps Churchill in the -40s . Having Corbyn as temporary PM seems to be an unnecessary way to bring party politics into it. A GoNU should if possible be above that. The objective is to ask for an extension and then call for a GE. That's it. There is no reason Corbyn would need to be the one doing it, especially if it's uncertain he would get the confidence of the house. edit: This is why Clarke seems like such a sensible option. For the last three years he's been all about finding cross-party compromises. He's set to resign before the next election and he's the Father of the House. It would be a very uncontroversial and harmless choice. Corbyn is so much more polarizing. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On August 16 2019 23:56 rexxO wrote: What an astonishingly ignorant take. You would benefit from investigating the history and culture of more recent UK experiences and struggles, such as the Windrush generation. There is a rich history of music and culture that descended from the postwar transatlantic migration, one that is uniquely Black and British. I would go as far as to say that the entirety of the modern (UK) electronic dance music cannon is forever indebted to these cultural developments. I also need not remind you that a lot of ancestors of the people you are talking about were the ones who toiled away under the British colonial project. EDIT: I will grant you that austerity is a big problem that has eroded the security and stability of these neighborhoods, policing included. Yes, you should investigate their history. If they never set foot in USA, lived all their lives in UK, they are British, not American. American cultural politics should have no identity on them. Their forebearers have never been to USA. They are British. No matter how "Black" a genre of music is as you point out. | ||
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rexxO
Canada44 Posts
On August 19 2019 20:29 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Yes, you should investigate their history. If they never set foot in USA, lived all their lives in UK, they are British, not American. American cultural politics should have no identity on them. Their forebearers have never been to USA. They are British. No matter how "Black" a genre of music is as you point out. In spite of it being brought up, you either continue to be unaware of, or don't care to accurately portray the unique music and culture that developed within Britain like grime, jungle, trip hop, drill (genres and scenes particularly prevalent of the intersection of race and class) as British. What's far worse, I feel, is that I'd wager strongly that you don't pay a second thought to the majority of brits (yourself possibly included) over generations who have immersed themselves in the several cultural waves of british classic rock, brit pop, and or jazz/soul/rnb going back almost 60 years now. Just to belabor the point: I also see from your posts on TL that you enjoy reading anime. Why don't you instead concern yourself with british comics and the British invasion writers of the 90s? Why do you have a preoccupation with specifically what this national/cultural/music relationship is specifically for black brits? | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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rexxO
Canada44 Posts
On August 19 2019 20:29 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Yes, you should investigate their history. If they never set foot in USA, lived all their lives in UK, they are British, not American. American cultural politics should have no identity on them. Their forebearers have never been to USA. They are British. No matter how "Black" a genre of music is as you point out. On August 20 2019 00:04 Dangermousecatdog wrote: I don't get it. What is the point you are trying to make? People shouldn't listen to music outside of the national culture? This is quite literally what you are saying. I'm trying to demonstrate to you that it's an absurd position to take, and worse it seems to be awkwardly focused on black people when plenty of people exchange and enjoy culture from different nations. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
A pm that can't even do a one million to one deal should really resign immediately. I'm just glad that he's shown his true colours earlier than I expected | ||
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schaf
Germany1326 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22658 Posts
Boris Johnson has said the chances of a Brexit deal are "touch and go" - having previously said the odds of a no-deal Brexit were "a million to one". www.bbc.comIn a BBC interview at the G7 summit in France, he said it "all depends on our EU friends and partners". When pressed on the chances, he said: "I think it's going to be touch and go. But the important thing is to get ready to come out without a deal." Mr Johnson has repeatedly said the UK will leave the EU on 31 October. Basically as has been said from the start, Boris wants a no deal Brexit and is preparing people for that. | ||
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schaf
Germany1326 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22658 Posts
On August 25 2019 22:33 schaf wrote: My guess is he hopes the Commons simply can't decide to do anything (which is not unreasonable based on the past), he doesn't ask for yet another last second extension and after 31th Oct the UK defaults out of the EU.Ah thanks. Yeah well the trajectory was obvious. The only question is if and how he circumvents the Commons. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom10006 Posts
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Longshank
1648 Posts
On August 25 2019 22:49 Jockmcplop wrote: Can't he just wait and call a general election at the right time so parliament is dead while we're supposed to be brexiting and then we hard brexit? I think the best answer you could hope for at this point is 'nobody knows'. There are constitutional experts and Attorney Generals on one side saying parliement can't stop no deal, and constitutional experts and ex Attorney Generals on the other side saying the opposite. Much of it seems to be how you interpret laws and constitution based on your political bias. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom10006 Posts
On August 25 2019 23:51 Longshank wrote: I think the best answer you could hope for at this point is 'nobody knows'. There are constitutional experts and Attorney Generals on one side saying parliement can't stop no deal, and constitutional experts and ex Attorney Generals on the other side saying the opposite. Much of it seems to be how you interpret laws and constitution based on your political bias. The no deal side is at an advantage though, because if nothing happens they win, whereas to stop it someone has to take action, and no-one seems to have the ability to take any action at any point. | ||
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