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UK Politics Mega-thread - Page 51

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In order to ensure that this thread meets TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we ask that everyone please adhere to this mod note.

Posts containing only Tweets or articles adds nothing to the discussions. Therefore, when providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments will be actioned upon.

All in all, please continue to enjoy posting in TL General and partake in discussions as much as you want! But please be respectful when posting or replying to someone. There is a clear difference between constructive criticism/discussion and just plain being rude and insulting.

https://www.registertovote.service.gov.uk
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-13 21:22:36
July 13 2014 21:22 GMT
#1001
There is more cases supposedly.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44181 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-13 22:04:55
July 13 2014 22:04 GMT
#1002
On July 14 2014 06:20 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2014 06:04 KwarK wrote:
As sleazy as it obviously is I don't see anything especially heinous about the rich and powerful having sex with 20 year old male prostitutes.

the article says that the prostitutes at the time were under the age of consent, so that would make it illegal, right?

At the time the age of consent for homosexual sex was 5 years over the age of consent for heterosexual sex because homophobia. There is no logical or moral basis for retroactively enforcing a law rooted in bigotry that has since been repealed. I said it wasn't heinous, not that it wasn't illegal.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
hypercube
Profile Joined April 2010
Hungary2735 Posts
July 13 2014 22:27 GMT
#1003
On July 14 2014 07:04 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2014 06:20 Nyxisto wrote:
On July 14 2014 06:04 KwarK wrote:
As sleazy as it obviously is I don't see anything especially heinous about the rich and powerful having sex with 20 year old male prostitutes.

the article says that the prostitutes at the time were under the age of consent, so that would make it illegal, right?

At the time the age of consent for homosexual sex was 5 years over the age of consent for heterosexual sex because homophobia. There is no logical or moral basis for retroactively enforcing a law rooted in bigotry that has since been repealed. I said it wasn't heinous, not that it wasn't illegal.


There's a difference between ignoring a law that is immoral and supporting said immoral law in public but ignoring it in private because you think you are above the law.

If that's the worst they did they shouldn't be prosecuted but if some of them are still involved in politics or public service there should be consequences. Not because they had sex with young adults but because they think different rules should apply to them then to their constituents.
"Sending people in rockets to other planets is a waste of money better spent on sending rockets into people on this planet."
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
July 13 2014 22:31 GMT
#1004
Police or inquiries shouldn't be wasting their time with investigating politicians having sex with 20 year old men 30 years ago, investigate actual peadophiles or other types of criminals plz.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 13 2014 22:34 GMT
#1005
A former social services official has said his warnings about the threat of a Westminster-based paedophile network were ignored because “there were too many of them over there".

David Tombs, who ran Hereford and Worcester social services, said he warned the government after the arrest of paedophile Peter Righton in 1992.

Two inquiries have been launched into historical claims of child abuse.

Tim Yeo MP, a junior health minister in the early 1990s, said he was "staggered" by the claims.

He added that he was "not aware" of a culture of child sex abuse during his time as a health minister, and said he was puzzled as to why Mr Tombs did not take his concerns further at the time and speak to his local MP.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
July 13 2014 22:40 GMT
#1006
idk if these politicians care about any age limit at all. it's unlikely that they were all like, well he's 20 so by regular consent it's ok. probably just got what they could get their hands on.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
July 13 2014 23:25 GMT
#1007
On July 14 2014 07:04 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2014 06:20 Nyxisto wrote:
On July 14 2014 06:04 KwarK wrote:
As sleazy as it obviously is I don't see anything especially heinous about the rich and powerful having sex with 20 year old male prostitutes.

the article says that the prostitutes at the time were under the age of consent, so that would make it illegal, right?

At the time the age of consent for homosexual sex was 5 years over the age of consent for heterosexual sex because homophobia. There is no logical or moral basis for retroactively enforcing a law rooted in bigotry that has since been repealed. I said it wasn't heinous, not that it wasn't illegal.

But to be fair illegal sex or any serious illegal activity for high profile politicians is a pretty big deal. It doesn't matter if the law is stupid. If you're willing to break it you probably shouldn't be a politician.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44181 Posts
July 14 2014 00:48 GMT
#1008
This was thirty years ago now. The four people he alleged were there are all dead.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
hypercube
Profile Joined April 2010
Hungary2735 Posts
July 14 2014 01:52 GMT
#1009
On July 14 2014 09:48 KwarK wrote:
This was thirty years ago now. The four people he alleged were there are all dead.



He gave the newspaper the names of several Conservative politicians who he alleged were at these parties, including the then Attorney General, Michael Havers, who was the brother of Elizabeth Butler-Sloss, the judge who has been given the task of leading the inquiry. The four whose names were published by the Sunday Mirror – Smith, Havers, Keith Joseph and Rhodes Boyson – are all dead. The newspaper says that Mr Gilberthorpe also named one politician who is still a serving minister, and two who served as Cabinet ministers under Margaret Thatcher.


Also they really should find someone else to lead the inquiry.
"Sending people in rockets to other planets is a waste of money better spent on sending rockets into people on this planet."
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
July 14 2014 02:20 GMT
#1010
It might sou8nd a little strange but i have always felt that the use of emotionally powerful stories particularly those involving sex abuse have been used (possibly without the intent) to distract people from thinking about things that they should be because they are so impactful it's very easy to react in a way that is out of proportion.

For example, the "emergency laws" to protect us from the "threat of terrorism" have very serious and long lasting implications but its much easier to relate to and feel strongly about any systemic abuses of power involving saville or harris so despite the fact that in the grand scheme of things they are largely insignificant (although really awful for those involved) that is where the attention is.
Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
July 14 2014 02:24 GMT
#1011
Also why did people not give a shit about the sell off of the royal mail?

The taxpayer lost billions comparable to the heinous austerity cuts at the start of this parliament and the media and populous barely battered an eyelid

I am really sick of people in this (these) country(countries) not giving two shits about politics. Compare the thread length of this and the US thread. It's fucking grim.
Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
July 14 2014 11:47 GMT
#1012
On July 14 2014 08:25 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2014 07:04 KwarK wrote:
On July 14 2014 06:20 Nyxisto wrote:
On July 14 2014 06:04 KwarK wrote:
As sleazy as it obviously is I don't see anything especially heinous about the rich and powerful having sex with 20 year old male prostitutes.

the article says that the prostitutes at the time were under the age of consent, so that would make it illegal, right?

At the time the age of consent for homosexual sex was 5 years over the age of consent for heterosexual sex because homophobia. There is no logical or moral basis for retroactively enforcing a law rooted in bigotry that has since been repealed. I said it wasn't heinous, not that it wasn't illegal.

But to be fair illegal sex or any serious illegal activity for high profile politicians is a pretty big deal. It doesn't matter if the law is stupid. If you're willing to break it you probably shouldn't be a politician.

I dunno. I'm not sure I agree with this really.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 14 2014 21:22 GMT
#1013
Hague has stepped down as foreign secretary.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 14 2014 22:06 GMT
#1014
William Hague surprised Westminster on Monday evening by announcing he would quit as foreign secretary, as David Cameron culled ministers of all ranks as part of a wide-ranging reshuffle designed to promote fresh faces ahead of the election.

Hague's decision opens up one of the top jobs in government. He will replace Andrew Lansley as leader of the House of Commons until 2015 - when he will step down from parliament.

Hague was first elected in 1989 and served as Welsh secretary under John Major before succeeding him as Conservative Party leader in 1997. He stood down as leader in 2001 after losing the general election to Labour and Tony Blair, but was persuaded to return to frontline politics in 2005 when Cameron took over the party.

The Richmond MP said on the role as Leader of the Commons meant he would "finish in politics as I began – speaking in Parliament and campaigning among the voters". He said on Twitter: "From May 2015, after such a long period in politics I want to embark on many other things I have always wanted to do. Renewal in politics is good, and holding office is not an end in itself. After 26 years as an MP time will be right for me to move on."

The prime minister said Hague would continue to play a key role in the Conservative Party's election campaign as his "de facto political deputy".


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
TheMooseHeed
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom535 Posts
July 14 2014 22:41 GMT
#1015
On July 14 2014 11:24 layabout wrote:
I am really sick of people in this (these) country(countries) not giving two shits about politics. Compare the thread length of this and the US thread. It's fucking grim.

Tbf its a American site and America has like what 300 million people? Not that suprising to see such a difference in thread length.
''Swarm hosts are the worst thing in the world, I mean terrorism is pretty bad but swarmhosts are worse'' IdrA on ZvZ
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
July 15 2014 00:47 GMT
#1016
This is a European site and 60 million to 300 million people and 51 pages-1169 doesn't fit with that. 5 times the population 23 time the number of posts. Even if there are other contributing factors that is pretty telling.

The main point is about attitude and people in the UK don't care enough
Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
July 15 2014 00:55 GMT
#1017
TL actually has only 33% US users(if the TL census can be trusted), surprised me a bit aswell.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/427622-graphs-tl-census-2013
hypercube
Profile Joined April 2010
Hungary2735 Posts
July 15 2014 02:21 GMT
#1018
So apparently the GCHQ has created tools to manipulate online polls, steer traffic or raise the visibility of certain messages in online debates:


The documents – which were published on First Look Media with accompanying analysis from Glenn Greenwald – disclose a range of GCHQ "effects" programs aimed at tracking targets, spreading information, and manipulating online debates and statistics.
[...]
Capabilities to boost views of YouTube videos, or to boost the circulation of particular messages are also detailed.

GCHQ has also, the document suggests, developed capabilities to scan and geolocate the IPs of entire cities at a time.

The document does not detail the legal restrictions on using any of the programs, nor state how often any were deployed. Several of the programs, though, are described as being at "pilot" stage.


http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/14/gchq-tools-manipulate-online-information-leak

For those who tend to defend GCHQ, what's the legitimate use for these tools?
"Sending people in rockets to other planets is a waste of money better spent on sending rockets into people on this planet."
TheMooseHeed
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom535 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-15 07:52:47
July 15 2014 07:52 GMT
#1019
On July 15 2014 09:47 layabout wrote:
This is a European site and 60 million to 300 million people and 51 pages-1169 doesn't fit with that. 5 times the population 23 time the number of posts. Even if there are other contributing factors that is pretty telling.

The main point is about attitude and people in the UK don't care enough

Totally forgot TL's european and yeah you have a point
''Swarm hosts are the worst thing in the world, I mean terrorism is pretty bad but swarmhosts are worse'' IdrA on ZvZ
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4768 Posts
July 15 2014 08:37 GMT
#1020
To be honest US internal issues have much higher chances of impacting people in other countries thus generating more interest from foreigners. Also they have those super lenghty disscussions about Obamacare and every supreme court verdict, they seem to love this stuff.

As to UK from continental perspective UK is stable, perhaps even stagnant. Your foreign policy wont change regardless of who wins elctions. You wont get involved anywahere without the approval of Your overgrown rebel son. And even if You could You are too busy taking russian and arab money to care. In short. Nothing to see here.

No offense. Peace.
Pathetic Greta hater.
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