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[QUOTE]On September 23 2017 03:48 Sermokala wrote:
I mean there is no reasonable way forward so I guess hard Brexit is the best way. They won't get a decent deal from an EU that wants to make sure the southern countries don't get any ideas.
Your economy being in the lurch for a time with no trade is the best path forward. Brave new world.[/QUOTE}It's just a case of the British cabinet being utterly incompetent. Ultimately the best deal from the EU is the current deal UK has with the EU. Unfortunately, this doesn't appear to be an option. Theresa May simply has no clue. First they kept their intentions secret, so no negotiations is possible. Possibly because they have no plan. Then they make absurd statements such as that to have no deal is better then a bad deal, as if no deal isn't the worst possible circumstance. Then a disastrous election that should have strengthened their hand but weakened it immensely. Then endless vacillation occured. Then they decide a transitional period is needed. Now they are asking the EU to be realistic.
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On September 23 2017 05:13 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2017 03:48 Sermokala wrote:
I mean there is no reasonable way forward so I guess hard Brexit is the best way. They won't get a decent deal from an EU that wants to make sure the southern countries don't get any ideas.
Your economy being in the lurch for a time with no trade is the best path forward. Brave new world. Are you sure it just isn't a case of the British cabinet being utterly incompetent. First they kept their intentions secret. Possibly becuase they have no plan. Then they make absurd statements such as that to have no deal is better then a bad deal, as if no deal isn't the worst possible circumstance. Then they decide a transitional period is needed. No they are asking the Eu to be realistic.
"No deal is better than a bad deal" is actually a solid strategy. Game of chicken. It just depends on how you execute it. I'm mostly pro-EU and I recognise this fact.
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It's a bad strategy, same way that keeping your "plan" in secret for what seems to be a year now is a bad strategy. In this case it's a game of chicken when UK drives the car off the cliff, whilst the EU flies over. The EU had in the beginning acted in a friendly manner, but over time the UK cabinet repeatedly spat in their faces and now the EU's position is hardened.
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As I said, it depends on how you execute it. In my opinion, the UK is no longer the British Empire so it has little leverage against the EU, but I could be wrong. Sorry if someone is offended! It's my personal opinion and it's not an expert opinion.
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I am not sure why you would refer to the British Empire. Are you in fact insane?
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Please keep discussion civil. Otherwise, I'll have to report such posts to mods.
I'm very sane, thanks. You just quickly discarded my post without thinking much about it. If the UK was the British Empire, it'd be bigger territory, bigger market, etc. The EU would be more inclined to give you more. Same logic if the EU negotiates a trade deal with some country rather than 1-to-1 deal if each country represents themselves separately.
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No seriously, why would you even mention the British Empire? You do know it doesn't exist anymore?
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Because you were not too long ago? Now you're not. What I mean is the EU has bigger fish to fry.
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So...basically your argument that "No deal is better than a bad deal" is actually a solid strategy beased on that the EU has bigger fish to fry than the British Empire. Ok...
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Not for a generation. Historians argue about when it ended, but the latest people will give it is the late 1990s with the transfer of Hong Kong. And that is pushing it.
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No, I think you just don't read my posts carefully. Forget it... I'm sure someone else will understand what I mean.
I never said the British Empire exists nowadays.
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United States43545 Posts
Literally all he was saying is that the importance of Britain within a trade union has decreased with the decline of the imperial system. It's pretty uncontroversial.
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On September 23 2017 06:03 KwarK wrote:
Literally all he was saying is that the importance of Britain within a trade union has decreased with the decline of the imperial system. It's pretty uncontroversial.
Yes, exactly. I don't know much about the British Empire to praise it or criticise it, but my point was literally what KwarK said. I don't know why some people act as if I said something ridiculously crazy.
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Estonia4504 Posts
On September 23 2017 06:09 sc-darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2017 06:03 KwarK wrote:
Literally all he was saying is that the importance of Britain within a trade union has decreased with the decline of the imperial system. It's pretty uncontroversial. Yes, exactly. I don't know much about the British Empire to praise it or criticise it, but my point was literally what KwarK said. I don't know why some people act as if I said something ridiculously crazy.
I was of the opinion that it was less crazy than hard to follow. People get rather jumpy these days in political arguments too.
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On September 23 2017 06:15 mustaju wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2017 06:09 sc-darkness wrote:On September 23 2017 06:03 KwarK wrote:
Literally all he was saying is that the importance of Britain within a trade union has decreased with the decline of the imperial system. It's pretty uncontroversial. Yes, exactly. I don't know much about the British Empire to praise it or criticise it, but my point was literally what KwarK said. I don't know why some people act as if I said something ridiculously crazy. I was of the opinion that it was less crazy than hard to follow. People get rather jumpy these days in political arguments too.
Well, if that's the case, then I'm sorry for not writing it in a clearer way! I thought the following said it all:
On September 23 2017 05:24 sc-darkness wrote:
Please keep discussion civil. Otherwise, I'll have to report such posts to mods.
I'm very sane, thanks. You just quickly discarded my post without thinking much about it. If the UK was the British Empire, it'd be bigger territory, bigger market, etc. The EU would be more inclined to give you more. Same logic if the EU negotiates a trade deal with some country rather than 1-to-1 deal if each country represents themselves separately.
Then, he/she became jumpy. Whatever. 
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Isn’t London the Wall Street of the EU?
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There's no relevance between that "No deal is better than a bad deal" is a solid strategy and the British Empire. Hence asking if you are insane. No one mentioned the British Empire till you unsolicitatedly did so.
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What is it, the unspeakable phrase?
Anyway I'm of the opinion that no Brexit is better than a bad brexit.
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On September 23 2017 06:43 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
There's no relevance between that "No deal is better than a bad deal" is a solid strategy and the British Empire. Hence asking if you are insane. No one mentioned the British Empire till you unsolicitatedly did so.
There is... You just fail to see it. Let me simplify it for you.
2017
UK: Hey, EU! I'm leaving you. Offer me a free trade deal or you'll lose us as customers.
*EU checks UK's circumstances*
Population: 65.64 million
Territory: 242,495 km² (mainland only?)
EU: Hmm... not sure..
About 1930s (imagine EU existed)
The British Empire: Hey, EU! I'm leaving you. Offer me a free trade deal or you'll lose us as customers.
*EU checks the British Empire's circumstances*
Population: 458 million
Territory: 35.5 million km² (possibly)
EU: Hmm... it's a big market. We should do something!
Hopefully you get it this time. If not, then that's it, I've run out of patience.
On September 23 2017 06:44 Jockmcplop wrote:
What is it, the unspeakable phrase?
Anyway I'm of the opinion that no Brexit is better than a bad brexit.
I think most of us would agree here, but it's too late. Debate at the time of referendum was spoiled with NHS lies, reduction of immigration to < 100,000, etc. Brexiteers voted for dreams not for reality. The sad story is they are still living in their dream.
I think one good way for the UK to save face would be the following. During transition period, the UK tries to arrange (free) trade deals as already suggested by the current government. If they fail to make it a significant success, then they should inform the public it's not feasible and that they should stick with the EU. Explain that it's better for economy, blah, blah.
Alternatively, still go for trade negotiations with other countries. In the middle of such negotiations, use your advantage against the EU to give you a better deal. Otherwise, these "the EU can go whistle" tactics will probably fail. That's WHY I say you're not the British Empire anymore to talk to the EU like that and expect the EU to bow down.
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On September 23 2017 06:26 Plansix wrote:
Isn’t London the Wall Street of the EU?
Yes, but this only came into being because London was the best place to have it inside the EU.
If the UK doesn't get free service access with the EU then all these companies would have to pay extra to do their EU business (which is why their in London currently).
So many of them would likely start up branches in another EU location, while downsizing their UK operation.
A transition period that would no doubt be uncomfortable for the EU but they are a big enough market that people will move to have unlimited access to it.
And the UK is unlikely to get service access without accepting EU law and paying into the EU (the Norway model). Which is basically what the UK has now, only losing their ability to influence those laws. Taxation without representation.
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EPT
