EPTThe only coherent arguments that Brexit has are answers to the question "is the EU perfect" which is blatantly a No. But undisputably it is a step or lunge in the right direction. And you can't change an organisation from the outisde looking in.
UK Politics Mega-thread - Page 387
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MyTHicaL
France1070 Posts
The only coherent arguments that Brexit has are answers to the question "is the EU perfect" which is blatantly a No. But undisputably it is a step or lunge in the right direction. And you can't change an organisation from the outisde looking in. | ||
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Reaps
United Kingdom1280 Posts
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MyTHicaL
France1070 Posts
 did you expect anything else? People are who they are and will only change gradually, if at all. But since the outcome of this shennanigan will force me to either keep or burn my UK passport I guess it provokes me to be more emotional about this specific topic than I should be ;o | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
On September 18 2017 22:10 MyTHicaL wrote: Yeah plenty of ignorant, deluded people. But bardtown was their (your) top participant. The only coherent arguments that Brexit has are answers to the question "is the EU perfect" which is blatantly a No. But undisputably it is a step or lunge in the right direction. And you can't change an organisation from the outisde looking in. exactly the reason why no-one is going to debate you. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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KwarK
United States43979 Posts
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MyTHicaL
France1070 Posts
On September 18 2017 23:16 Zaros wrote: exactly the reason why no-one is going to debate you. I don't want them to. One opinion is right the other is wrong, this was a referendum not a GE. To badly quote Frankie Boyle; there are some who voted for Brexit because they have considered the economic insecurity of Greece (and other members) but the vast majority are viewing the situation of the country through nostalgic, racist/illogical/xenophobic glasses. The statistics of those voted leave do not lie; the old, the uneducated, etc. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-oliver-robbins-quits-department-permanent-secretary-eu-talks-theresa-may-david-davis-boris-a7952756.html | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On September 19 2017 00:20 KwarK wrote: Cameron's appearance of competence is certainly elevated by those who surrounded him. Still, he was one of our better recent PMs. Better than Major, Blair, or May. I don't know, at least Blair did some good to make up for all the bad. Cameron's only achievement was gay marriage. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On September 19 2017 00:27 LegalLord wrote: Calling the referendum should also count as an achievement - even if it didn't work out as planned. I don't think it was - it was a cynical, party political move. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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KwarK
United States43979 Posts
On September 19 2017 00:25 kollin wrote: I don't know, at least Blair did some good to make up for all the bad. Cameron's only achievement was gay marriage. When the bad is as bad as Blair's bad is, you don't have much of a leg left to stand on. Even Major was better than Blair. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On September 19 2017 00:40 KwarK wrote: When the bad is as bad as Blair's bad is, you don't have much of a leg left to stand on. Even Major was better than Blair. I guess my feeling is that I don't think a Conservative government would have done anything massively better than Blair if that makes sense. All of the banking deregulations they voted for, they undoubtedly would have taken us into Iraq. Maybe it'd be more accurate to say I think the Labour Party has been more competent than the Conservatives. | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
How is soft Brexit not viable? There are still Norway and Switzerland. Edit: I'm sure there are people who will be happy to get another referendum after NHS and immigration lies. NHS lie was obvious, there's not much to comment here. Immigration lie is also obvious if you look at graphs - non-EU immigration is HIGHER than EU immigration, while the latter is 'uncontrolled' due to freedom of movement. What does that tell us? It tells us that someone at border control lets non-EU immigrants in. How is the EU's fault for higher immigration then? | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
On September 19 2017 02:22 sc-darkness wrote: I don't know about Major and Blair, but Cameron is 100% better than May. Since when does a Remainer support hard Brexit? Who gave her a mandate for hard Brexit? The referendum was about leaving the EU but there are two paths from here - soft and hard Brexit. People haven't voted for any specifically. If you pick either, you're kidding yourself. I don't have a UK passport but I pay taxes. I'm quite happy to pay for another soft/hard Brexit referendum as part of my tax. How is soft Brexit not viable? There are still Norway and Switzerland. Edit: I'm sure there are people who will be happy to get another referendum after NHS and immigration lies. NHS lie was obvious, there's not much to comment here. Immigration lie is also obvious if you look at graphs - non-EU immigration is HIGHER than EU immigration, while the latter is 'uncontrolled' due to freedom of movement. What does that tell us? It tells us that someone at border control lets non-EU immigrants in. How is the EU's fault for higher immigration then? Soft brexit is not what people voted for that is the problem, the whole campaign was framed under if you vote to leave you are voting to not be part of the single market/customs union/ECJ. Immigration was not the main reason people voted to leave it was to take sovereignty back from an unaccountable EU and forge our own countries path in the future. May got her mandate because the conservative parliamentary party is still mostly pro E.U. and Boris and Gove infighting trashed any chance of a leave politician taking over. As for NHS lies etc. both sides played that game and the project fear from the remain side was probably 100x worse with punishment budgets, WW3 etc. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28796 Posts
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On September 19 2017 02:44 Zaros wrote: Soft brexit is not what people voted for that is the problem, the whole campaign was framed under if you vote to leave you are voting to not be part of the single market/customs union/ECJ. Immigration was not the main reason people voted to leave it was to take sovereignty back from an unaccountable EU and forge our own countries path in the future. May got her mandate because the conservative parliamentary party is still mostly pro E.U. and Boris and Gove infighting trashed any chance of a leave politician taking over. As for NHS lies etc. both sides played that game and the project fear from the remain side was probably 100x worse with punishment budgets, WW3 etc. This entire post is absurdly misleading. http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_582ce0a0e4b09025ba310fce http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-eu-referendum-single-market-brexit-a7104846.html The leave campaign was ran on the promise that we would remain in the single market. The NHS lie is STILL being repeated now. I'm not sure Cameron ever actually said that there would be WW3, he was just wilfully misrepresented by the leave campaign. The punishment budget will come if the projected £35bn hole that Brexit will leave in our economy is accurate. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
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