In order to ensure that this thread meets TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we ask that everyone please adhere to this mod note.

Posts containing only Tweets or articles adds nothing to the discussions. Therefore, when providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments will be actioned upon.

All in all, please continue to enjoy posting in TL General and partake in discussions as much as you want! But please be respectful when posting or replying to someone. There is a clear difference between constructive criticism/discussion and just plain being rude and insulting.

https://www.registertovote.service.gov.uk

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

August 01 2017 17:15 GMT

#7381

Nativism is a hell of a drug.

bardtown

England2313 Posts

August 01 2017 17:25 GMT

#7382

I have a very short temper with this discussion. Jock is blatantly creating a straw man and I am sick of young people insulting the older generations and passing judgement on their character. And not wanting unrestricted immigration is not nativism. What a degenerate conversation this has become.

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

August 01 2017 17:31 GMT

#7383

Except they were fine with family members losing their jobs and not talking to them, so long as Brexit succeeded. That pretty much boils down to “I don’t care how this negatively impacts your life or our relationship, I want it not matter the cost.”

That isn’t a conversation degrading. That is a conversation ending, likely forever.

bardtown

England2313 Posts

August 01 2017 17:42 GMT

#7384

There are things in life worth making a sacrifice for. If Russia tried to employ you as a spy would you accept or would you lose out on a job for the sake of your country?

Gorsameth

Netherlands21725 Posts

August 01 2017 17:44 GMT

#7385

Holy mother of false equivalency.

farvacola

United States18830 Posts

August 01 2017 17:45 GMT

#7386

What he meant to say is that "[t]here are things in life worth making other people sacrifice for."

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

August 01 2017 17:47 GMT

#7387

Being a spy can get you sent to prison and is generally a really bad idea. So I would lose my job? I’m still unclear why rejecting the option to be a spy means a lose my job.

And by your very same argument, the people who think the old people are ruining the country love their country. They believe the Leavers are destroying the fabric of the nation they love. That is the things about principals. They are subjective. Both sides can claim to have superior principles and morals. Both sides can claim to love their country more.

On August 02 2017 02:45 farvacola wrote:
What he meant to say is that "[t]here are things in life worth making other people sacrifice for."

They wouldn’t mind giving up things if they loved their country enough.

bardtown

England2313 Posts

August 01 2017 17:53 GMT

#7388

Again, same shit. If you think the elderly are heartless people who are voting their grandchildren into destitution then that is a mark against your own character, not theirs. They are doing what they think is best for the country, which includes their children and grandchildren.

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

August 01 2017 17:56 GMT

#7389

No, we thing the 40% of the elderly people who responded to that poll are selfish. Which, by their own statements, they are willing to put their political desires over the economic needs of others. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and so on.

My brother voted in a manner that he thought was best for his country. He still apologized when he found out that his vote fucked over his sister in law and niece and nephew. These people should be more like my brother.

bardtown

England2313 Posts

August 01 2017 18:05 GMT

#7390

Stop being silly, please. You don't know anything about 'these people'. They might be from Leave voting families where all agree that it's worth the cost. They might be willing to financially support family members if they do lose work. They might be willing to employ them. They most likely believe that even if someone does lose their job they will get greater rewards for the decision to leave further down the line.

Jockmcplop

United Kingdom9661 Posts

August 01 2017 18:11 GMT

#7391

You can only judge someone on how they appear, silent intentions mean nothing in this conversation.
If that's the answer the elderly give, that they would rather their family are jobless (which under this government means homeless) than stomach staying in the EU, then that says nothing about me and everything about them on this question.

EDIT:
On the matter of respect, being alive for long enough to hate everything doesn't qualify you for respect in my book. The older generation have consistently voted against their own children's interests for years now, and to imagine its for some greater wisdom instead of pure selfish belligerence is to give them too much credit I'm afraid.

Gorsameth

Netherlands21725 Posts

August 01 2017 18:12 GMT

#7392

On August 02 2017 03:05 bardtown wrote:
Stop being silly, please. You don't know anything about 'these people'. They might be from Leave voting families where all agree that it's worth the cost. They might be willing to financially support family members if they do lose work. They might be willing to employ them. They most likely believe that even if someone does lose their job they will get greater rewards for the decision to leave further down the line.

Sure, you can make shit up to justify anything.

Doesn't change the fact that a bunch of retired people have decided that other people should risk losing their job

bardtown

England2313 Posts

August 01 2017 18:18 GMT

#7393

Oh look, more young people demonstrating their 'principles' by shitting on the people who have given them everything.

KwarK

United States42840 Posts

August 01 2017 18:21 GMT

#7394

Everything?

Jockmcplop

United Kingdom9661 Posts

August 01 2017 18:21 GMT

#7395

That's not a reasonable point bardtown and you know it.
Do you really believe that any adult who reaches 60 is worthy of unconditional respect?

At what point do your actions become irrelevant, 47? 59? 67? Is there a definite age where idiocy and selfishness is ignored?
Should we adapt the law to this and make it impossible to prosecute the elderly? They gave us everything after all. You wouldn't want some 59 year old judge putting away 70 year old,would you?

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

August 01 2017 18:22 GMT

#7396

In my home town, the elderly came out to vote down the new school once a year. Their leaders would always talk about how the school was good enough for his children and it was terrible to raise taxes to build a new school. That it served the town fine for 40 years and should be repaired. And every year for 10 years it failed, because they didn’t want higher taxes. And then the state condemned it and threatened the town with a state takeover if they didn’t vote to raise taxes and build a school. And for 3 years, kids road on buses for hours as they were shipped all over the county to different schools that could take them. And then we got a new school, after 13 years. Never doubt on the old elderly to screw over the young and say it is for their own good.

Edit: bardtown - are you pushing 60 and didn't tell anyone?

bardtown

England2313 Posts

August 01 2017 18:28 GMT

#7397

I think you should start from a position of respect and engage with them. Ask them if they think Brexit will be good for their grandchildren. Do you really think they're going to say no? I doubt you do, so you know that you're being disingenuous by calling them selfish.

Yes that makes sense. The old people didn't give you enough free tax money so you're upset.

Jockmcplop

United Kingdom9661 Posts

August 01 2017 18:38 GMT

#7398

On August 02 2017 03:28 bardtown wrote:
I think you should start from a position of respect and engage with them. Ask them if they think Brexit will be good for their grandchildren. Do you really think they're going to say no? I doubt you do, so you know that you're being disingenuous by calling them selfish.

Yes that makes sense. The old people didn't give you enough free tax money so you're upset.

I start from a position of respect.
Its hard to talk about a demographic group without having to make some generalizations that hurt the wrong people.

However, I believe that actions are how respect is determined. If the elderly honestly think its worth their kids being jobless, homeless and hopeless just so we can leave the EU then they are too evil for respect or too fucking stupid for it.
Simple.

And yeah, you can talk about free tax money. This particular generation of oldies is a good point of discussion. Free higher education for them, but when their kids want it they call them selfish and stupid, because how does free higher education benefit people who'll be dead when the benefits are reaped by the living, right?. Everything they grew up with they deny their children, and then you go on about 'free tax money'.

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

August 01 2017 18:39 GMT

#7399

I was 10 at the time, so I wasn’t that upset. The state condemned the school due to it being a health hazard, having no handicapped access and not being able to maintain a heat above state required livable conditions. It wasn’t free tax dollars, its was money to replace the school they had run into the dirt over 40 years. They didn’t have kids at the time, so they didn’t give a shit. I don’t see a huge difference between those people and the Brexit voters who said they don’t care if anyone loses their job.

bardtown

England2313 Posts

August 01 2017 18:41 GMT

#7400

The most pampered generation in the history of the human race whining about how hard they have it never ceases to make me feel ill. I don't know about your grandparents but mine fought in wars and did hard labour.

Pretty much the only area where we have it worse than our grandparents is housing. And that's because we build 300,000 homes a year... and import 300,000 immigrants a year.