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On January 17 2017 04:52 Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2017 20:40 MyTHicaL wrote:
You've been in this thread long enough to know I am the only dissenting voice in an echo chamber. You also know that I have argued extensively against all the arguments for remaining.
There is a very obvious reason for that. How does the UK have, objectively, a serious advantage? What advantage do they have? Use EU residents as bargaining chips? Congratulations on actually uniting the EU to record approval levels across the entire continent. Here we are not so stupid to think that any one country can really stand up to the BRICs, US, etc. But you keep on practicing your speeches in the mirror and making sure you spend as much time speaking to pensioners. I'm sure it means something in the long run. But it's fine I want you to have a hard brexit. Simply because of the reprecussions for NI, and Scotland. Let Little England be just that; Little and isolated. I'm an immigrant in the UK, but I'd rather the EU don't do whatever those "have your cake and eat it" guys want. Freedom of movement or get the fuck out. It sucks for the UK, but these are the rules. If the UK want different rules, they should have stayed to change rules, then quit. You are likely to change system when you're at a higher position. Edit: Also, it's hilarious that Trump and random people predict that the EU will disband. It's more likely that Scotland will have another independence referendum than EU disbanding any time soon. By the way, I quoted you to support your post.
no system has ever changed the process in which empowered it. Change is always in response to external threats or internal weakening of the existing power structure through rigorous opposition revealing obvious flaws with the status quo.
The Scots as as likely to get independence as California is from leaving the USA. The queen wouldn't stand for it, and the british army swears their fealty to her.
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On January 17 2017 22:45 Madkipz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2017 04:52 Shield wrote:On January 16 2017 20:40 MyTHicaL wrote:
You've been in this thread long enough to know I am the only dissenting voice in an echo chamber. You also know that I have argued extensively against all the arguments for remaining.
There is a very obvious reason for that. How does the UK have, objectively, a serious advantage? What advantage do they have? Use EU residents as bargaining chips? Congratulations on actually uniting the EU to record approval levels across the entire continent. Here we are not so stupid to think that any one country can really stand up to the BRICs, US, etc. But you keep on practicing your speeches in the mirror and making sure you spend as much time speaking to pensioners. I'm sure it means something in the long run. But it's fine I want you to have a hard brexit. Simply because of the reprecussions for NI, and Scotland. Let Little England be just that; Little and isolated. I'm an immigrant in the UK, but I'd rather the EU don't do whatever those "have your cake and eat it" guys want. Freedom of movement or get the fuck out. It sucks for the UK, but these are the rules. If the UK want different rules, they should have stayed to change rules, then quit. You are likely to change system when you're at a higher position. Edit: Also, it's hilarious that Trump and random people predict that the EU will disband. It's more likely that Scotland will have another independence referendum than EU disbanding any time soon. By the way, I quoted you to support your post. The Scots as as likely to get independence as California is from leaving the USA. The queen wouldn't stand for it, and the british army swears their fealty to her.
They had a referendum in 2014 which Cameron described as binding.
Are you suggesting that the queen would've sent the army into Scotland if the result had been Yes? That's amusing.
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ritain will leave the EU's single market when it exits the European Union, Prime Minister Theresa May said on Tuesday, putting an end to speculation that London might try to seek a "soft Brexit".
In a long-awaited speech in which she sought to define the country's future as a global player that aims to trade freely far beyond Europe, May said the final exit deal would be put to parliament for a vote.
That promise helped revive the pound on currency markets. Sterling GBP=D4, which has traded at the lowest levels against the U.S. dollar for more than three decades, rose during May's speech hitting a day high.
May said she would seek an equal partnership with the EU but that she would not adopt models already used by other countries that have free trade agreements with the bloc.
Her statement that Britain would leave the single market was by far the clearest indication she has ever given of her plans for the future, after months of criticism that she was not being sufficiently transparent.
"I want to be clear: What I am proposing cannot mean membership of the single market," May told an audience of foreign diplomats and Britain's own Brexit negotiating team at a mansion house in London.
"Instead we seek the greatest possible access to it though a new comprehensive, bold and ambitious free trade agreement. That agreement may take in elements of current single market arrangements in certain areas," May said.
Her announcement that she will put the final Brexit deal to a vote in both houses of parliament comes ahead of a court decision on whether she has the power to start the process of withdrawing without parliamentary approval.
Britons' vote to leave the bloc has opened a huge number of questions about immigration, the future rights of the many EU citizens already living in the United Kingdom, whether exporters will keep tariff-free access to the single European market and British-based banks will be able to serve continental clients.
The Brexit talks, expected to be one of the most complicated negotiations in post-World War Two European history, could decide the fate of her premiership, the United Kingdom and the future shape of the European Union that Britain leaves behind.
May's speech comes as Northern Ireland, the part of the UK most exposed to Brexit due to its land border with the Irish Republic, faces a lengthy period of political paralysis after the collapse of its power-sharing government.
U.S. President-elect Donald Trump has said that Brexit will turn out to be a great thing and the other countries would follow Britain out of the European Union. He promised to strike a swift bilateral trade deal with the United Kingdom.
www.reuters.com
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On January 17 2017 22:45 Madkipz wrote:
The Scots as as likely to get independence as California is from leaving the USA. The queen wouldn't stand for it, and the british army swears their fealty to her.
What? Are you mad? Were Scotland to leave the UK, the Queen would still be The Queen of Scotland, as it was a Scottish King which descended into the throne of England. Not that it matters as The Queen's opinion is unknown, and she is a figurehead in anycase. She doesn't actually have command of the armed forces.
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The last queen of Scots was held hostage in a tower for her life, aka Mary; James' daughter.
The current monarchy is even less popular than Westminster in Scotland.
But he is right, technically the British army does swear fealty to her- but it's not as if she's going to mount a horse and lead them off into battle.
California does not have a devolved federal government. Nor was it completely independent some hundreds of years ago. It was a collony and then one of the original states of the US (I think... lazy to check).
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On January 15 2017 07:08 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Truthfully, I take heart from the news that a full exit is ever more unlikely and that a Norway like deal where we simply have most of the benefits we currently have with the EU, but with the additional drawbacks which Norway has to contend with.
2 days ago. Well informed, as ever.
On January 17 2017 22:31 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
But bardtown, you got confused about what county Cambridge was in. That's why we think you are a little...uncultured.
Honestly, you are an endless source of laughs. I don't know what county Cambridge is in? I live in Cambridge, you dumpling.
On January 17 2017 22:31 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
In any case bardtown, you are just so full of shit. Your European travel story just sounds...strange, like you never actually visited those places before. Like who calls it keleti instead of Budapest-Keleti? You are just so full of hate and so weirdly nationalistic. You are so desperately proud of UK (which is not a bad thing by the way) yet you are so full of hatred of the Scots, the Welsh and the Irish on both sides of the border.
On January 17 2017 22:27 MyTHicaL wrote:
I don't believe any of your claims for living overseas or randomly travelling to Scotland. I think you are an unemployed Brexiteer talking shit on this website with no actual interest in Starcraft which is odd...
So you were apparently in Budapest what 15 years ago when that was a problem? lol. A Eurotrip doesn't mean you understand a place either.. As bad as those Americans saying (but at least credit to them for actually leaving NA) "I'm going to do Europe this summer".
Legitimately cracked up reading these, so thank you. It was less than 2 years ago, not 15. I call it Keleti because that's what the friends I was with called it. One of them is Hungarian and another half-Hungarian. Both referred to it as Keleti. None of it is made up, and I'm not bragging, I'm just responding to your random assertion that I've never been abroad. I know it's confusing to you, but I certainly do not hate the Scots, Welsh, Irish or any other nationality. Have no idea why you even included Wales or Ireland in that list.
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You speak on behalf of the NI when you do not in anyway understand the sectarian conflict. You simply can't it hasn't been lived through by you or any of your family.
2 years ago no one would have a problem travelling from Budapest station to Vienna or Venice or wherever you said. I'd question your claim to have any contact nevermind friendship with anyone outside of your thought bubble. Bazd meg.
You're probably this angry because Cambs voted 70% to remain. Only the morons at Wetherspoons did any different or regulars, outside of students at WTs. This is the first time you've now claimed to live in Cambridge, you're like a chameleon using annonymity to adapt to change your situation to better fit your arguments. Quite a power. Super Chameleon man using illogic, delusion and adaptive-transformation everywhere he goes!?
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Why would you think I'm angry? Everything is going as I hoped and predicted.
And again, all you do is make completely unsubstantiated (because they are false) claims. You are simply wrong, and this is the case with almost every other statement you make.
Hungarian authorities have closed Budapest’s main station to refugees and migrants following chaotic scenes on Monday, when people who had been camped outside for weeks were suddenly allowed to leave for Austria and Germany without visa checks.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/01/migrant-crisis-hungary-closes-main-budapest-station
Check the date. Summer 2015, when I was in Budapest with friends (Dutch, Italian, Hungarian and German, by the way).
I have mentioned that my family home is in Cambridge previously in this thread - why else would he have brought it up? I have also lived in Middlesbrough, Newcastle, York, Norwich and Bristol, so that may be why you are confused.
I don't speak on behalf of NI. I just go with statistics. Scotland voted to stay in the UK, NI voted to stay in the UK. You're the one speaking on their behalf, suggesting that they want to be a part of a united Ireland with absolutely no evidence. Also, don't presume to know anything about my family history.
![[image loading]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Northern_Ireland_Referendum_Result_1973.png)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_border_poll_1973
Poll was boycotted by nationalists because they knew they couldn't win, but a 98% majority with 57% of registered voters is an unassailable majority.
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... So this is data from 1973 and is relevent here somehow in your mind, but the 67.23% who voted in the UK to join the EU in 1975 is somehow irrelevant? lol. I would argue that neither are since they happened 40+ years ago. sigh.
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Infinitely more relevant than your unfounded opinions.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
So I guess hard Brexit is what we're looking forward to. I'm not surprised; the idea of "free movement" seems to be so fundamental to the current iteration of "Europe" that they would rather see the project come apart due to disagreements than to compromise that ideal.
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On January 18 2017 03:02 LegalLord wrote:
So I guess hard Brexit is what we're looking forward to. I'm not surprised; the idea of "free movement" seems to be so fundamental to the current iteration of "Europe" that they would rather see the project come apart due to disagreements than to compromise that ideal.
Yep. Free movement and supremacy of EU law while paying for the privilege... would have been hard to stomach for most Leave voters.
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On January 18 2017 00:08 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2017 22:45 Madkipz wrote:
The Scots as as likely to get independence as California is from leaving the USA. The queen wouldn't stand for it, and the british army swears their fealty to her. What? Are you mad? Were Scotland to leave the UK, the Queen would still be The Queen of Scotland, as it was a Scottish King which descended into the throne of England. Not that it matters as The Queen's opinion is unknown, and she is a figurehead in anycase. She doesn't actually have command of the armed forces.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/14/queen-scottish-independence-voters-think-carefully-referendum-balmoral
in 1977, the year of her silver jubilee, the Queen said in a speech in Westminster Hall: "I cannot forget that I was crowned Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland."
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If Tony Blair can invade Iraq the Queen can invade scotland.
Scotland would not be able to get into the EU as Spain would veto any attempt to gain entry.
The UK is a NATO member, and has too much influence for Scotland whose capabilities in the event of declaring independence without a major nation backing their plan of action would be less than that of northern ireland. NATO would not want to commit suicide or loose a major player like that so they'd stay on the UK side.
Westminster is too fractured to really do much good for scottish independence, so here's a more plausible scenario.
The second referendum is a success and scottish prime minister begin to make overtures of independence. Westminster refers to the first referendum, and SNP leaders are then arrested under treason charges. The second referendum is declared unconstitutional and Scottish independence is squashed for the time being.
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Dude, you're deluded. If they vote to leave, they're leaving. There will be no coups or military interventions in British politics. Never going to happen.
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I really hope Scotland leaves. Its not that much of a move to Glasgow. My job isn't reputable enough to be worth anything at all in the new tory vision of the UK and I'm happy with the EU's protection of worker's rights.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
What exactly is the "new vision" of the UK? I see mostly a mad rush to leave a system they don't like, but no idea as to what might replace it, in a country that simply doesn't have as much to offer as it once did.
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On January 18 2017 03:47 LegalLord wrote:
What exactly is the "new vision" of the UK? I see mostly a mad rush to leave a system they don't like, but no idea as to what might replace it, in a country that simply doesn't have as much to offer as it once did.
An American style economy with a huge emphasis on financial deregulation and acquiring the much sought after 'tax haven' status, allowing them to further punish the population of the country for the benefit of the rich.
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On January 18 2017 03:13 Madkipz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2017 00:08 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On January 17 2017 22:45 Madkipz wrote:
The Scots as as likely to get independence as California is from leaving the USA. The queen wouldn't stand for it, and the british army swears their fealty to her. What? Are you mad? Were Scotland to leave the UK, the Queen would still be The Queen of Scotland, as it was a Scottish King which descended into the throne of England. Not that it matters as The Queen's opinion is unknown, and she is a figurehead in anycase. She doesn't actually have command of the armed forces. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/14/queen-scottish-independence-voters-think-carefully-referendum-balmoral in 1977, the year of her silver jubilee, the Queen said in a speech in Westminster Hall: "I cannot forget that I was crowned Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland." --- If Tony Blair can invade Iraq the Queen can invade scotland. Scotland would not be able to get into the EU as Spain would veto any attempt to gain entry. The UK is a NATO member, and has too much influence for Scotland whose capabilities in the event of declaring independence without a major nation backing their plan of action would be less than that of northern ireland. NATO would not want to commit suicide or loose a major player like that so they'd stay on the UK side. Westminster is too fractured to really do much good for scottish independence, so here's a more plausible scenario. The second referendum is a success and scottish prime minister begin to make overtures of independence. Westminster refers to the first referendum, and SNP leaders are then arrested under treason charges. The second referendum is declared unconstitutional and Scottish independence is squashed for the time being.
Just facepalm. I think you overvalue the monarchy's power. Scotland is not Catalunia nor is it California, both states of their respective countries that argue that they prop up the rest..
England marching on Scotland with the British armed forces? >_< Would make for a hilarious satirical comedy series thanks for making me laugh.
Also it would go against NATO etc. It's like Flanders in Belguim deciding to leave and Walonie declaring war on the North.. Not an exact example but kind of closer at least.
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On January 18 2017 03:47 LegalLord wrote:
What exactly is the "new vision" of the UK? I see mostly a mad rush to leave a system they don't like, but no idea as to what might replace it, in a country that simply doesn't have as much to offer as it once did.
Can you qualify this?
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On January 18 2017 04:11 bardtown wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2017 03:47 LegalLord wrote:
What exactly is the "new vision" of the UK? I see mostly a mad rush to leave a system they don't like, but no idea as to what might replace it, in a country that simply doesn't have as much to offer as it once did. Can you qualify this?
Britain is no longer an empire spanning the world, it's no longer the center of industry in the world, and it no longer is the preeminent military force in the world. Not by a longshot, in fact.
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