EPTUK Politics Mega-thread - Page 192
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Sent.
Poland9299 Posts
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On July 05 2016 03:47 Sent. wrote: I mean I'm not angry at Farage or Leave voters It was so predictible anyway ... | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On July 05 2016 05:26 andrewlt wrote: So none of the major Brexit campaigners want to govern the mess they made. What mess? | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
For example, weaker sterling and business uncertainty? Negotiations with the EU to get such a good deal that you won't be criticised at home? | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On July 05 2016 05:43 Shield wrote: For example, weaker sterling and business uncertainty? Negotiations with the EU to get such a good deal that you won't be criticised at home? Is the UK actually going to be worse off without the EU? It seems like they're one of the main contributors and that the EU is hurt much more by them leaving. The UK was the greatest nation on the planet at a time when the EU didn't even exist. I think they'll be fine. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On July 05 2016 06:10 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Is the UK actually going to be worse off without the EU? It seems like they're one of the main contributors and that the EU is hurt much more by them leaving. The UK was the greatest nation on the planet at a time when the EU didn't even exist. I think they'll be fine. The UK was also an empire once... times change. Remember that. While there is no doubt the UK is a strong country, I wouldn't hold my breath to see EU much weaker after the UK leaves. If anything, I think the UK will be back to EU in some form or another in the future. Edit: To answer your question directly, yes, I think the UK will be worse off without the EU. Economically at least. It won't become like some country in Africa, but it won't be richer either.  | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On July 05 2016 06:15 Shield wrote: The UK was also an empire once... times change. Remember that. While there is no doubt the UK is a strong country, I wouldn't hold my breath to see EU much weaker after the UK leaves. If anything, I think the UK will be back to EU in some form or another in the future. Edit: To answer your question directly, yes, I think the UK will be worse off without the EU. Economically at least. It won't become like some country in Africa, but it won't be richer either. That seems to imply the average EU country is better off than the UK. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On July 05 2016 06:22 GGTeMpLaR wrote: That seems to imply the average EU country is better off than the UK. No, it doesn't. There isn't even a hint of that. When I speak of EU I mean the whole European Union not single countries. Edit: Did you think that because I mentioned Africa? What I meant was the UK will probably not be broke or in some kind of extreme poverty because of leaving EU. It just won't be richer than it is now for the time being. | ||
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RoomOfMush
1296 Posts
On July 05 2016 06:10 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Is the UK actually going to be worse off without the EU? It seems like they're one of the main contributors and that the EU is hurt much more by them leaving. The UK was the greatest nation on the planet at a time when the EU didn't even exist. I think they'll be fine. It would be incredibly naive to believe the UK wont be worse off without the EU. Working together has never been a bad idea on an international level. According to Wikipedia the UK is the 3rd strongest country within the EU, slightly behind france and far behind germany. ( link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_and_social_rankings_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe ) The UK economy is already hurting and they havent even left yet. The biggest blow to them will probably be the damaged business connections with other EU countries. Pissing your close neighbours off is never a good idea if your economy is build on providing services. It just isnt. The UK was the greatest nation on the planet at a time when the EU didn't even exist. So was rome, spain, germany, china, etc etc etc. Having been a "greatest" nation at some point in the past does not mean much if you are hurting in the present. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8081 Posts
On July 05 2016 06:10 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Is the UK actually going to be worse off without the EU? It seems like they're one of the main contributors and that the EU is hurt much more by them leaving. The UK was the greatest nation on the planet at a time when the EU didn't even exist. I think they'll be fine. You really should read what the overwhelming majority of economists are saying. The UK is starting massively downhill negociations and they need to nail it if they don't want to suffer enormously from the Brexit. Of course bad result in those negociations will be much, much, much more damaging for the UK than for the EU. The City will lose its place in the finance world, nobody will want to invest in Britain and British companies will suffer enormously if they leave the single market. As for your second point, what kind of a broken logic is that? I don't even know what to answer. How is the former British empire relevant to that discussion and do you realize the UK by itself is a dwarf compared to the EU? They were not even the first or the second country in the union. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On July 05 2016 06:30 Biff The Understudy wrote: You really should read what the overwhelming majority of economists are saying. The UK is starting massively downhill negociations and they need to nail it if they don't want to suffer enormously from the Brexit. Of course bad result in those negociations will be much, much, much more damaging for the UK than for the EU. The City will lose its place in the finance world, nobody will want to invest in Britain and British companies will suffer enormously if they leave the single market. As for your second point, what kind of a broken logic is that? I don't even know what to answer. All thanks to a bunch of idiots who thought leaving EU will get rid of Indians, Pakistani, muslims, etc. Or, they thought it was some kind of protest vote against the government. I live in the UK, but I can't be happy with the decision of 52% of voters. Well, I could have been happier if some of Brexit voters knew what the vote was really about. | ||
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Reaps
United Kingdom1280 Posts
Fear mongering may work in other country's but not in Britain. Keep calm and carry on | ||
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Simberto
Germany11839 Posts
If they would expect the deals to go well, they would try to get their names attached to them, and thus always be the genius politicians who made the UK greater by leaving the EU. However, if the deals turn out to be a lot worse than what they had before, it ends your career as a politician to be the person responsible for it. Since apparently noone wants to do it, it seems like most top politicians believe the second will happen. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On July 05 2016 06:34 Reaps wrote: Actually everything is just a guessing game at the moment, both sides can carry on making claims that this will happen or that will happen but the truth is, nothing is for certain untill we actually you know, leave. Fear mongering may work in other country's but not in Britain. Keep calm and carry on lol. I mean.. lol. Oh, and you're wrong on top. Some things are NOT guessing. The UK will not get access to the single market without accepting the "four freedoms". There's no guessing there. edit: had to lol again. edit2: i rarely agree with Simberto, but the post above hits the nail on the head. I don't understand how people can argue that the UK will be amazing and rise to the top and stuff when the people who actually advertised that now jump like rats off the sinking ship. | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On July 05 2016 06:15 Shield wrote: The UK was also an empire once... times change. Remember that. While there is no doubt the UK is a strong country, I wouldn't hold my breath to see EU much weaker after the UK leaves. If anything, I think the UK will be back to EU in some form or another in the future. Edit: To answer your question directly, yes, I think the UK will be worse off without the EU. Economically at least. It won't become like some country in Africa, but it won't be richer either. If they're the third strongest economy in the EU how does it stand to reason that the EU would not suffer at all from this but the UK will? | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On July 05 2016 06:41 GGTeMpLaR wrote: If they're the third strongest economy in the EU how does it stand to reason that the EU would not suffer at all from this but the UK will? Because the EU still has the single market, the UK will not? edit: btw, people didn't say the EU won't suffer. They will. But less so than the UK, contrary to what you said: "the EU is hurt much more by them leaving". Which is wrong. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On July 05 2016 06:41 GGTeMpLaR wrote: If they're the third strongest economy in the EU how does it stand to reason that the EU would not suffer at all from this but the UK will? Again, I never said it's harmless for EU. I said the EU won't be much weaker than now. It will be weaker for sure, but the EU will withstand. I actually hope EU goes for some reforms now to get rid of subsidies (massive thefts here, including in my own country) and gives more sovereignty to countries. Brexit campaign had some good ideas, but they had a lot of lies. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8081 Posts
On July 05 2016 06:34 Reaps wrote: Actually everything is just a guessing game at the moment, both sides can carry on making claims that this will happen or that will happen but the truth is, nothing is for certain untill we actually you know, leave. Fear mongering may work in other country's but not in Britain. Keep calm and carry on Saying that something is a disastrous decisions is not fear mongering. There has been fear mongering from the remain campaign about the immediate effects of the Brexit and it has been very counter productive. Now, most economic model are predicting a 2% loss in GDP in the best case. And this negociation is going to be hardcore, because other big European countries confronted with à-la-UKIP far right populist eurosceptic movements won't want to show that everyone is welcome to leave and that Britain will be totally ok. Not talking about the uncertainty of 3 million European people living in the UK not knowing what the hell is going to happen to them. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8081 Posts
On July 05 2016 06:41 GGTeMpLaR wrote: If they're the third strongest economy in the EU how does it stand to reason that the EU would not suffer at all from this but the UK will? Because the third economy of the EU is a dwarf compared to the whole union once alone? If the UK is excluded from the common market, which is the only way the Brexit would make any fucking sense whatsoever (otherwise it's just losing advantages while keeping all the trouble), British companies will suffer a lot more than European ones. The UK does 2/3 of its trade with the EU. No country in Europe does 2/3 of its trade with the UK. The UK suffers more. I really don't see what's so difficult. The Brexit will affect a French company doing, say, 10 or 15% of its business with the UK, but it will affect much more a typical British company doing 70% of its trade with the EU. | ||
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