|
In order to ensure that this thread meets TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we ask that everyone please adhere to this mod note. Posts containing only Tweets or articles adds nothing to the discussions. Therefore, when providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments will be actioned upon. All in all, please continue to enjoy posting in TL General and partake in discussions as much as you want! But please be respectful when posting or replying to someone. There is a clear difference between constructive criticism/discussion and just plain being rude and insulting. https://www.registertovote.service.gov.uk |
On June 29 2016 17:32 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Bernie Sanders opinion piece on Brexit - NYTimes By BERNIE SANDERS JUNE 28, 2016 Show nested quote +Surprise, surprise. Workers in Britain, many of whom have seen a decline in their standard of living while the very rich in their country have become much richer, have turned their backs on the European Union and a globalized economy that is failing them and their children.
And it’s not just the British who are suffering. That increasingly globalized economy, established and maintained by the world’s economic elite, is failing people everywhere. Incredibly, the wealthiest 62 people on this planet own as much wealth as the bottom half of the world’s population — around 3.6 billion people. The top 1 percent now owns more wealth than the whole of the bottom 99 percent. The very, very rich enjoy unimaginable luxury while billions of people endure abject poverty, unemployment, and inadequate health care, education, housing and drinking water.
Let’s be clear. The global economy is not working for the majority of people in our country and the world. This is an economic model developed by the economic elite to benefit the economic elite. We need real change. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/29/opinion/campaign-stops/bernie-sanders-democrats-need-to-wake-up.html?referer=https://t.co/ywq46GeMt4
Putting this all on the economic factors is such a Marxist thing to do. Also, in the context of xenophobic incidents that the media report are currently occuring in the UK, it's probably not the right (or at least, a partial) answer.
|
On June 29 2016 21:08 Jockmcplop wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Classy as always our Nige
Holy shit that's incredible. Like that onion article says, it's nice that y'all have reminded us Americans as to how similar we can be sometimes 
|
On June 29 2016 21:21 farvacola wrote:Holy shit that's incredible. Like that onion article says, it's nice that y'all have reminded us Americans as to how similar we can be sometimes
I am in awe of his ability to be such a piece of garbage in a public forum and seem perfectly comfortable with it. His ability to distort his own reality is impressive. But then I look at our current election.
|
On June 29 2016 21:27 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2016 21:21 farvacola wrote:On June 29 2016 21:08 Jockmcplop wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Classy as always our Nige Holy shit that's incredible. Like that onion article says, it's nice that y'all have reminded us Americans as to how similar we can be sometimes I am in awe of his ability to be such a piece of garbage in a public forum and seem perfectly comfortable with it. His ability to distort his own reality is impressive. But then I look at our current election.
Yet he is only elected in the European system, he has tried to get elected 8 times to our parliament and failed every time. He is of no real relevance to the country especially now that we are leaving the EU.
|
On June 29 2016 21:08 Jockmcplop wrote:Classy as always our Nige
The dangerous thing about speeches like that is that, as ridiculous as they are, they are not aimed at the people around him, but at the people at home. Those people have no clue who the other people in the room are, so they believe that all of them, except Farage whom they know, have indeed not worked a day in their life.
He's telling the viewers at home:
"Those people have no idea what they are doing, they have never worked a day in their lives, never worked a proper job, unlike you there sitting unemployed on the couch. Do you want those people to make decisions for you when they have no idea what struggles hard working people like you, yes, you there on the couch, are going through?"
They believe it because they know Farage and they don't know anyone else in that room and they don't use the internet to learn about the other people nor is the media telling them about what jobs those guys actually had, because even for the media his claim is too ridiculous to require a counter-argument.
|
On June 29 2016 21:30 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2016 21:27 Plansix wrote:On June 29 2016 21:21 farvacola wrote:On June 29 2016 21:08 Jockmcplop wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Classy as always our Nige Holy shit that's incredible. Like that onion article says, it's nice that y'all have reminded us Americans as to how similar we can be sometimes I am in awe of his ability to be such a piece of garbage in a public forum and seem perfectly comfortable with it. His ability to distort his own reality is impressive. But then I look at our current election. Yet he is only elected in the European system, he has tried to get elected 8 times to our parliament and failed every time. He is of no real relevance to the country especially now that we are leaving the EU.
I blame your 2 party system.
Though I guess Nick Clegg proved me wrong there.
People seem to think UKIP will disappear after having accomplished their goal, I'm not so sure.
|
On June 29 2016 21:31 Laurens wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2016 21:30 Zaros wrote:On June 29 2016 21:27 Plansix wrote:On June 29 2016 21:21 farvacola wrote:On June 29 2016 21:08 Jockmcplop wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Classy as always our Nige Holy shit that's incredible. Like that onion article says, it's nice that y'all have reminded us Americans as to how similar we can be sometimes I am in awe of his ability to be such a piece of garbage in a public forum and seem perfectly comfortable with it. His ability to distort his own reality is impressive. But then I look at our current election. Yet he is only elected in the European system, he has tried to get elected 8 times to our parliament and failed every time. He is of no real relevance to the country especially now that we are leaving the EU. I blame your 2 party system. Though I guess Nick Clegg proved me wrong there. People seem to think UKIP will disappear after having accomplished their goal, I'm not so sure.
I also think that is just people wishing, rather than reality. I bet the same people rebrand with a new angle for xenophobia. That is how it works in the US.
|
On June 29 2016 21:31 Laurens wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2016 21:30 Zaros wrote:On June 29 2016 21:27 Plansix wrote:On June 29 2016 21:21 farvacola wrote:On June 29 2016 21:08 Jockmcplop wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Classy as always our Nige Holy shit that's incredible. Like that onion article says, it's nice that y'all have reminded us Americans as to how similar we can be sometimes I am in awe of his ability to be such a piece of garbage in a public forum and seem perfectly comfortable with it. His ability to distort his own reality is impressive. But then I look at our current election. Yet he is only elected in the European system, he has tried to get elected 8 times to our parliament and failed every time. He is of no real relevance to the country especially now that we are leaving the EU. I blame your 2 party system. Though I guess Nick Clegg proved me wrong there. People seem to think UKIP will disappear after having accomplished their goal, I'm not so sure.
Our First Past the Post system isnt going anywhere and so even if UKIP stick around it would take a massive labour split and a competant UKIP leader for them to get more than a couple of MPs. Douglas Carswell isnt even really a UKIP MP he has a personal brand in Clacton that would allow him to win with any party and Nigel Farage would prefer him gone.
|
Despite early reports of the opposite,the leave voters seem to be the big winners in the end.
England will get a special status,full access to the free market and some sort of restriction on the free movement of people. The amount of restriction is now the topic of negotiations. Europe wants no restrictions,and England wants full restrictions. They will no doubt end somewhere in the middle because the eu can and may not fail.
Congratz to the nay sayers, it seems you have won and will get what you want,at least a part of it.
Other then England there is no country strong enough to do the same (except Germany off course) so I wouldn't get my hope up for a favourable exit in any of the other countries.
|
On June 29 2016 21:51 pmh wrote:
England will get a special status,full access to the free market and some sort of restriction on the free movement of people. The amount of restriction is now the topic of negotiations. Europe wants no restrictions,and England wants full restrictions. They will no doubt end somewhere in the middle because the eu can and may not fail.
The negotiations haven't even started yet. What makes you say this?
|
Looking at the reactions on camerons speech in Brussels and the commentary. (on cnn)
This is basicly what they commented and think that will happen, and it seems reasonable.
Am pretty sure that informal negotiations and talks are already going on,trying to find a way to be able to keep going forward.
Europe does not want to loose England and neither side wants to loose the free market between the two. It is beneficial to both sides so it seems silly to let that go. England seems to think that bigger restrictions on free movement (will probably be only small adjustments) will be sufficient to garner enough support amongst its population. They are now using the referendum outcome as a leverage for their wishes in the negotiations that will follow.
|
Does that really make the leave camp the winner then?
They effectively traded their veto right + lots of other EU benefits for small adjustments to free movement and no membership fees.
If Scotland leaves as well, I'd call it a pretty epic loss.
|
But Laurens, freedom has no price.
|
Just to the proximity of England to the rest of the EU, it will likely get some sort of agreement that affords them “Special treatment”. But I doubt it is going to be this amazing deal that everyone is happy with.
|
Hmm maybe,i have to admit it is difficult to tell at this moment.
They will have a lesser say in eu regulation but their say in that was pretty minimal already,with 26 other countries also having their vote. Maybe they feel they wont loose out much and its not that they wont have anything to say at all. England is still a very influential country.
Scotland leaving the uk would be a big loss but I am not sure Scotland can afford to do so,it is a pretty small country that very much depends on England. And if England gets a decent deal (keep the free market acces) then I also don't see the need for Scotland to do so.
Well will see, at the moment I am inclined to think it will all work out just fine for England.
Will England (and the usa) ever adopt the metric system?
There is all this talk about how different regulations in independent countries are a big hurdle for international trade.
The 2 different measurement systems must be one of the biggest obstacles but it has never been a point of negotiation.
Just a random thought.
|
It's difficult to claim that a group with unintelligible motivations has won anything.
|
On June 29 2016 17:57 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2016 17:32 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Bernie Sanders opinion piece on Brexit - NYTimes By BERNIE SANDERS JUNE 28, 2016 Surprise, surprise. Workers in Britain, many of whom have seen a decline in their standard of living while the very rich in their country have become much richer, have turned their backs on the European Union and a globalized economy that is failing them and their children.
And it’s not just the British who are suffering. That increasingly globalized economy, established and maintained by the world’s economic elite, is failing people everywhere. Incredibly, the wealthiest 62 people on this planet own as much wealth as the bottom half of the world’s population — around 3.6 billion people. The top 1 percent now owns more wealth than the whole of the bottom 99 percent. The very, very rich enjoy unimaginable luxury while billions of people endure abject poverty, unemployment, and inadequate health care, education, housing and drinking water.
Let’s be clear. The global economy is not working for the majority of people in our country and the world. This is an economic model developed by the economic elite to benefit the economic elite. We need real change. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/29/opinion/campaign-stops/bernie-sanders-democrats-need-to-wake-up.html?referer=https://t.co/ywq46GeMt4 And who feels the impact of a downward economy as a result of the brexit more? The common worker. Sounds like a bad plan.
Maybe.Maybe not.
The fall in the pound helps local manufacturers, the former industrial regions were the areas that voted heaviest for leave.All fishermen will be better off when the CFP is removed.Tourism can boost because of the lower pound.
Besides it's been the common worker who has had to pay interest on the 850 billion pound bank bailout that Brown organised for the Banking & financial sector back in 2008 (50% of UK yearly GDP spent bailing out the banking & financial sector).This idea that banking and finance is so great for the economy falls apart when you consider the costs for the bailouts and interest because the criminal banks were making terrible choices knowing the ordinary folk were there for a bailout.This is the crux of what Sanders is talking about.
|
But the banks won't work differently with or without the EU. The entire financial landscape will stay almost exactly the same. Every big bank is tied to eachother so they all feel it. Bailouts will still have to happen. The common worker will still be the one who's fucked.
|
United States43990 Posts
On June 29 2016 22:10 pmh wrote:
Hmm maybe,i have to admit it is difficult to tell at this moment.
They will have a lesser say in eu regulation but their say in that was pretty minimal already,with 26 other countries also having their vote. Maybe they feel they wont loose out much and its not that they wont have anything to say at all. England is still a very influential country.
Scotland leaving the uk would be a big loss but I am not sure Scotland can afford to do so,it is a pretty small country that very much depends on England. And if England gets a decent deal (keep the free market acces) then I also don't see the need for Scotland to do so.
Well will see, at the moment I am inclined to think it will all work out just fine for England.
Will England (and the usa) ever adopt the metric system?
There is all this talk about how different regulations in independent countries are a big hurdle for international trade.
The 2 different measurement systems must be one of the biggest obstacles but it has never been a point of negotiation.
Just a random thought.
What the hell are you talking about? To be in the single market they must conform to the regulations of that market which are exactly the same regulations that the leave group were demanding freedom from. Only now they have regulations without any role in making them. And we've had the metric system for decades. I grew up under it and I'm pushing 30. I don't remember any other system.
You may not think Scotland needs to leave but this is another vote in which the English majority fucked things up for Scotland. You think they don't mind what happened to the pound? They were using that and now it's been devalued and all imported shit costs way more. Every time Scotland votes one way, England votes the other and then England fucks it up Scotland gets more independent. I don't think Scotland cares about your opinion.
|
On June 29 2016 17:32 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Bernie Sanders opinion piece on Brexit - NYTimes By BERNIE SANDERS JUNE 28, 2016 Show nested quote +Surprise, surprise. Workers in Britain, many of whom have seen a decline in their standard of living while the very rich in their country have become much richer, have turned their backs on the European Union and a globalized economy that is failing them and their children.
And it’s not just the British who are suffering. That increasingly globalized economy, established and maintained by the world’s economic elite, is failing people everywhere. Incredibly, the wealthiest 62 people on this planet own as much wealth as the bottom half of the world’s population — around 3.6 billion people. The top 1 percent now owns more wealth than the whole of the bottom 99 percent. The very, very rich enjoy unimaginable luxury while billions of people endure abject poverty, unemployment, and inadequate health care, education, housing and drinking water.
Let’s be clear. The global economy is not working for the majority of people in our country and the world. This is an economic model developed by the economic elite to benefit the economic elite. We need real change. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/29/opinion/campaign-stops/bernie-sanders-democrats-need-to-wake-up.html?referer=https://t.co/ywq46GeMt4
Does he seriously believe that leave won for economic reasons? That's incredibly naive.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13507251_10154474690849218_1317337743000828751_n.jpg?oh=4eb565f6e7bb655657db2fb3336ab625&oe=57EAD485)
