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UK Politics Mega-thread - Page 178

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In order to ensure that this thread meets TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we ask that everyone please adhere to this mod note.

Posts containing only Tweets or articles adds nothing to the discussions. Therefore, when providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments will be actioned upon.

All in all, please continue to enjoy posting in TL General and partake in discussions as much as you want! But please be respectful when posting or replying to someone. There is a clear difference between constructive criticism/discussion and just plain being rude and insulting.

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jello_biafra
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United Kingdom6642 Posts
June 28 2016 21:04 GMT
#3541
On June 29 2016 06:00 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2016 05:56 Zaros wrote:
On June 29 2016 05:55 RoomOfMush wrote:
Is the UK free while it is in the EU? No. It has to follow rules set by the EU.

Will the UK be free after leaving the EU? Still no. It has to follow the same rules.


Those rules do not apply because the EU likes to enforce rules upon britain. The rules apply because the EU wants to have them. Anybody who wants to trade with the EU has to follow the same rules. Not trading the EU would kill the UK. There is no way to leave these rules behind and stay at their level of wealth.

Its like deciding to be free from gravity or other laws of physics. Even if you dont like them you can not just decide to leave and expect it to actually work.


Except only 8% of business trade with the EU but at the moment 100% have to abide by EU rules, by leaving you free 92% of business from EU rules.

8% of business in the world? Like the whole thing?

8% of British business
The road to hell is paved with good intentions | aka Probert[PaiN] @ iccup / godlikeparagon @ twitch | my BW stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/jello_biafra
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6274 Posts
June 28 2016 21:04 GMT
#3542
(Reuters) - Two MPs from the Labour Party have begun moves to secure a second referendum on leaving the European Union, saying that voters must be given a chance to approve or reject the country's exit plan before formal negotiations begin.

Millions of Britons have reacted with shock after the country voted last week to leave the EU by 52 to 48 percent, triggering financial market turmoil, economic uncertainty and a political crisis engulfing the country's two main parties.

That has pushed some Labour MPs to put out a rallying cry for members of parliament to show their support for a second referendum that would allow the public to vote again once the shape of Britain's new relationship with the EU becomes clear.

"UK citizens must agree on the terms of leaving the EU and, if not satisfied, be given the opportunity to opt for the UK to remain an EU member," a formal notice submitted to parliament by MP Geraint Davies said.

The motion, backed by a second MP, Jonathan Edwards, noted that nearly 4 million members of the public had signed a petition for a second vote.

Davies said that informal negotiations with other EU leaders should be used to compile a Brexit plan, which should then be put to a public vote before the "Article 50" legal process of leaving the bloc, a period of up to two years, is activated.

The ruling Conservative Party has said it will not trigger Article 50 until its new leader has been appointed, due by Sept. 9, although some European leaders have called for the process to begin much sooner and dismissed the notion of informal talks.

The notice, compiled on the legal advice of an academic constitutional lawyer, has no formal power to force a second referendum. But it will be used as a vehicle to gather signatures from other MPs and generate political momentum.

Davies said he expected it to attract more than 100 signatures, which he believed would be enough to prompt a serious discussion on the issue.

NOT TOO LATE

Davies is hoping to further the argument put forward by party colleague David Lammy, who on Sunday became the first MP to publicly call for the process of leaving the bloc to be put to a second vote - either by referendum or in parliament.

"I've got no qualms with making the case for a second vote, because there is no exit plan," Lammy told Reuters.

"We're already seeing the uncertainty having a real impact on business investment decisions, on financial markets. It's not too late to stop this."

Davies said last week's referendum on leaving the EU was based on false claims about EU immigration and public spending, and that many voters used it as a protest vote against the Conservative government. Hence, he argued, it should not be considered binding on Britain's future.

"The game's not over. We're in injury time but we can still win back a stronger future for Britain in Europe," Davies said. "When the history books are written people will only remember Britain's exit or otherwise from the EU."

uk.mobile.reuters.com
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 28 2016 21:08 GMT
#3543
On June 29 2016 06:04 jello_biafra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2016 06:00 Plansix wrote:
On June 29 2016 05:56 Zaros wrote:
On June 29 2016 05:55 RoomOfMush wrote:
Is the UK free while it is in the EU? No. It has to follow rules set by the EU.

Will the UK be free after leaving the EU? Still no. It has to follow the same rules.


Those rules do not apply because the EU likes to enforce rules upon britain. The rules apply because the EU wants to have them. Anybody who wants to trade with the EU has to follow the same rules. Not trading the EU would kill the UK. There is no way to leave these rules behind and stay at their level of wealth.

Its like deciding to be free from gravity or other laws of physics. Even if you dont like them you can not just decide to leave and expect it to actually work.


Except only 8% of business trade with the EU but at the moment 100% have to abide by EU rules, by leaving you free 92% of business from EU rules.

8% of business in the world? Like the whole thing?

8% of British business

Did they take each publicly owned, billion dollar company and count that as one business? And then take the local liquor story and also count that as one business too? Because those numbers sound off.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
RoomOfMush
Profile Joined March 2015
1296 Posts
June 28 2016 21:10 GMT
#3544
On June 29 2016 05:56 Zaros wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2016 05:55 RoomOfMush wrote:
Is the UK free while it is in the EU? No. It has to follow rules set by the EU.

Will the UK be free after leaving the EU? Still no. It has to follow the same rules.


Those rules do not apply because the EU likes to enforce rules upon britain. The rules apply because the EU wants to have them. Anybody who wants to trade with the EU has to follow the same rules. Not trading the EU would kill the UK. There is no way to leave these rules behind and stay at their level of wealth.

Its like deciding to be free from gravity or other laws of physics. Even if you dont like them you can not just decide to leave and expect it to actually work.


Except only 8% of business trade with the EU but at the moment 100% have to abide by EU rules, by leaving you free 92% of business from EU rules.

Who cares about Aunty Pollies Arts and Crafts or Bobs home made burgers from around the corner. The 8% are the important part of the economy which make most of the profits.
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6274 Posts
June 28 2016 21:13 GMT
#3545
It also ignores the fact that companies who deal with that 8% (if this number is correct) will have to comply with the same rules.
Diabolique
Profile Joined June 2015
Czech Republic5118 Posts
June 28 2016 21:52 GMT
#3546
On June 29 2016 06:04 jello_biafra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2016 06:00 Plansix wrote:
On June 29 2016 05:56 Zaros wrote:
On June 29 2016 05:55 RoomOfMush wrote:
Is the UK free while it is in the EU? No. It has to follow rules set by the EU.

Will the UK be free after leaving the EU? Still no. It has to follow the same rules.


Those rules do not apply because the EU likes to enforce rules upon britain. The rules apply because the EU wants to have them. Anybody who wants to trade with the EU has to follow the same rules. Not trading the EU would kill the UK. There is no way to leave these rules behind and stay at their level of wealth.

Its like deciding to be free from gravity or other laws of physics. Even if you dont like them you can not just decide to leave and expect it to actually work.


Except only 8% of business trade with the EU but at the moment 100% have to abide by EU rules, by leaving you free 92% of business from EU rules.

8% of business in the world? Like the whole thing?

8% of British business

I am sorry to intercept, I am not an expert on percentages in British businesses, but this number is an absolute bullshit. I think, the author forgot some number before the 8. Let's say number 7? Then, it would be 78%. That sound more reasonable.
sOs | Rogue | Maru | Trap | Scarlett | Snute | MC
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
June 28 2016 21:56 GMT
#3547
On June 29 2016 06:08 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2016 06:04 jello_biafra wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:00 Plansix wrote:
On June 29 2016 05:56 Zaros wrote:
On June 29 2016 05:55 RoomOfMush wrote:
Is the UK free while it is in the EU? No. It has to follow rules set by the EU.

Will the UK be free after leaving the EU? Still no. It has to follow the same rules.


Those rules do not apply because the EU likes to enforce rules upon britain. The rules apply because the EU wants to have them. Anybody who wants to trade with the EU has to follow the same rules. Not trading the EU would kill the UK. There is no way to leave these rules behind and stay at their level of wealth.

Its like deciding to be free from gravity or other laws of physics. Even if you dont like them you can not just decide to leave and expect it to actually work.


Except only 8% of business trade with the EU but at the moment 100% have to abide by EU rules, by leaving you free 92% of business from EU rules.

8% of business in the world? Like the whole thing?

8% of British business

Did they take each publicly owned, billion dollar company and count that as one business? And then take the local liquor story and also count that as one business too? Because those numbers sound off.


It's what i like to call a "Boris Johnson Number". Like the 350mil. Worthless. It in fact doesn't even matter how many companies deal with the EU, considering that around 45% of ALL exports of the UK go to the EU.

In fact, i could not find a single source supporting his number (the only thing citing 8% is the percentage of exports going to BRICS). So most likely it's exactly as you said: Derrils Babershop, and pretty much every single local business that by nature can't do trade with the EU in the first place, was counted against big businesses a single entity.

Or, and that's more likely, he did like the leave campaign did. Pull stuff out of the ass and hope it sticks.
On track to MA1950A.
Diabolique
Profile Joined June 2015
Czech Republic5118 Posts
June 28 2016 21:59 GMT
#3548
On June 29 2016 06:56 m4ini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2016 06:08 Plansix wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:04 jello_biafra wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:00 Plansix wrote:
On June 29 2016 05:56 Zaros wrote:
On June 29 2016 05:55 RoomOfMush wrote:
Is the UK free while it is in the EU? No. It has to follow rules set by the EU.

Will the UK be free after leaving the EU? Still no. It has to follow the same rules.


Those rules do not apply because the EU likes to enforce rules upon britain. The rules apply because the EU wants to have them. Anybody who wants to trade with the EU has to follow the same rules. Not trading the EU would kill the UK. There is no way to leave these rules behind and stay at their level of wealth.

Its like deciding to be free from gravity or other laws of physics. Even if you dont like them you can not just decide to leave and expect it to actually work.


Except only 8% of business trade with the EU but at the moment 100% have to abide by EU rules, by leaving you free 92% of business from EU rules.

8% of business in the world? Like the whole thing?

8% of British business

Did they take each publicly owned, billion dollar company and count that as one business? And then take the local liquor story and also count that as one business too? Because those numbers sound off.


It's what i like to call a "Boris Johnson Number". Like the 350mil. Worthless. It in fact doesn't even matter how many companies deal with the EU, considering that around 45% of ALL exports of the UK go to the EU.

In fact, i could not find a single source supporting his number (the only thing citing 8% is the percentage of exports going to BRICS). So most likely it's exactly as you said: Derrils Babershop, and pretty much every single local business that by nature can't do trade with the EU in the first place, was counted against big businesses a single entity.

Or, and that's more likely, he did like the leave campaign did. Pull stuff out of the ass and hope it sticks.

Yes, exactly, 45% is the export to EU ... that sounds much more reasonable. Counting every newspaper kiosk on the street as a business does not make any sense.
sOs | Rogue | Maru | Trap | Scarlett | Snute | MC
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-28 22:28:08
June 28 2016 22:27 GMT
#3549
On June 29 2016 06:56 m4ini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2016 06:08 Plansix wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:04 jello_biafra wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:00 Plansix wrote:
On June 29 2016 05:56 Zaros wrote:
On June 29 2016 05:55 RoomOfMush wrote:
Is the UK free while it is in the EU? No. It has to follow rules set by the EU.

Will the UK be free after leaving the EU? Still no. It has to follow the same rules.


Those rules do not apply because the EU likes to enforce rules upon britain. The rules apply because the EU wants to have them. Anybody who wants to trade with the EU has to follow the same rules. Not trading the EU would kill the UK. There is no way to leave these rules behind and stay at their level of wealth.

Its like deciding to be free from gravity or other laws of physics. Even if you dont like them you can not just decide to leave and expect it to actually work.


Except only 8% of business trade with the EU but at the moment 100% have to abide by EU rules, by leaving you free 92% of business from EU rules.

8% of business in the world? Like the whole thing?

8% of British business

Did they take each publicly owned, billion dollar company and count that as one business? And then take the local liquor story and also count that as one business too? Because those numbers sound off.

It's what i like to call a "Boris Johnson Number". Like the 350mil. Worthless. It in fact doesn't even matter how many companies deal with the EU, considering that around 45% of ALL exports of the UK go to the EU.

In fact, i could not find a single source supporting his number (the only thing citing 8% is the percentage of exports going to BRICS). So most likely it's exactly as you said: Derrils Babershop, and pretty much every single local business that by nature can't do trade with the EU in the first place, was counted against big businesses a single entity.

Or, and that's more likely, he did like the leave campaign did. Pull stuff out of the ass and hope it sticks.

In an era of fear and confusion, the best plan always has been to make shit up. As Joe McCarthy. It took people 4 years before everyone realized he was full of shit in every way.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
June 28 2016 23:01 GMT
#3550
On June 29 2016 07:27 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2016 06:56 m4ini wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:08 Plansix wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:04 jello_biafra wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:00 Plansix wrote:
On June 29 2016 05:56 Zaros wrote:
On June 29 2016 05:55 RoomOfMush wrote:
Is the UK free while it is in the EU? No. It has to follow rules set by the EU.

Will the UK be free after leaving the EU? Still no. It has to follow the same rules.


Those rules do not apply because the EU likes to enforce rules upon britain. The rules apply because the EU wants to have them. Anybody who wants to trade with the EU has to follow the same rules. Not trading the EU would kill the UK. There is no way to leave these rules behind and stay at their level of wealth.

Its like deciding to be free from gravity or other laws of physics. Even if you dont like them you can not just decide to leave and expect it to actually work.


Except only 8% of business trade with the EU but at the moment 100% have to abide by EU rules, by leaving you free 92% of business from EU rules.

8% of business in the world? Like the whole thing?

8% of British business

Did they take each publicly owned, billion dollar company and count that as one business? And then take the local liquor story and also count that as one business too? Because those numbers sound off.

It's what i like to call a "Boris Johnson Number". Like the 350mil. Worthless. It in fact doesn't even matter how many companies deal with the EU, considering that around 45% of ALL exports of the UK go to the EU.

In fact, i could not find a single source supporting his number (the only thing citing 8% is the percentage of exports going to BRICS). So most likely it's exactly as you said: Derrils Babershop, and pretty much every single local business that by nature can't do trade with the EU in the first place, was counted against big businesses a single entity.

Or, and that's more likely, he did like the leave campaign did. Pull stuff out of the ass and hope it sticks.

In an era of fear and confusion, the best plan always has been to make shit up. As Joe McCarthy. It took people 4 years before everyone realized he was full of shit in every way.


Nothing new, right.

Didn't take 4 years for people to realize that the brexit campaigners are full of shit though, considering they already debunked themselves multiple times. Or rather.. Should realize by now. Were they smart enough.

But i guess it's easier to harass polish people etc rather than admitting that you're one of the dumbest persons alive, falling for something that could've easily been debunked by just googling BEFORE the vote rather than after.
On track to MA1950A.
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-28 23:26:20
June 28 2016 23:23 GMT
#3551
On June 29 2016 08:01 m4ini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2016 07:27 Plansix wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:56 m4ini wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:08 Plansix wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:04 jello_biafra wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:00 Plansix wrote:
On June 29 2016 05:56 Zaros wrote:
On June 29 2016 05:55 RoomOfMush wrote:
Is the UK free while it is in the EU? No. It has to follow rules set by the EU.

Will the UK be free after leaving the EU? Still no. It has to follow the same rules.


Those rules do not apply because the EU likes to enforce rules upon britain. The rules apply because the EU wants to have them. Anybody who wants to trade with the EU has to follow the same rules. Not trading the EU would kill the UK. There is no way to leave these rules behind and stay at their level of wealth.

Its like deciding to be free from gravity or other laws of physics. Even if you dont like them you can not just decide to leave and expect it to actually work.


Except only 8% of business trade with the EU but at the moment 100% have to abide by EU rules, by leaving you free 92% of business from EU rules.

8% of business in the world? Like the whole thing?

8% of British business

Did they take each publicly owned, billion dollar company and count that as one business? And then take the local liquor story and also count that as one business too? Because those numbers sound off.

It's what i like to call a "Boris Johnson Number". Like the 350mil. Worthless. It in fact doesn't even matter how many companies deal with the EU, considering that around 45% of ALL exports of the UK go to the EU.

In fact, i could not find a single source supporting his number (the only thing citing 8% is the percentage of exports going to BRICS). So most likely it's exactly as you said: Derrils Babershop, and pretty much every single local business that by nature can't do trade with the EU in the first place, was counted against big businesses a single entity.

Or, and that's more likely, he did like the leave campaign did. Pull stuff out of the ass and hope it sticks.

In an era of fear and confusion, the best plan always has been to make shit up. As Joe McCarthy. It took people 4 years before everyone realized he was full of shit in every way.


Nothing new, right.

Didn't take 4 years for people to realize that the brexit campaigners are full of shit though, considering they already debunked themselves multiple times. Or rather.. Should realize by now. Were they smart enough.

But i guess it's easier to harass polish people etc rather than admitting that you're one of the dumbest persons alive, falling for something that could've easily been debunked by just googling BEFORE the vote rather than after.


As people say, if an immigrant with basic English "steals" one's job, then the person who "lost" his job is probably a bad worker anyway. The question is: will the UK's politicians/people be dumb enough not to be part of the single market (EEA)? Admittedly, it's not as good as being part of EU, but they shouldn't have voted to leave anyway.
Diabolique
Profile Joined June 2015
Czech Republic5118 Posts
June 28 2016 23:33 GMT
#3552
On June 29 2016 08:23 Shield wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2016 08:01 m4ini wrote:
On June 29 2016 07:27 Plansix wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:56 m4ini wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:08 Plansix wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:04 jello_biafra wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:00 Plansix wrote:
On June 29 2016 05:56 Zaros wrote:
On June 29 2016 05:55 RoomOfMush wrote:
Is the UK free while it is in the EU? No. It has to follow rules set by the EU.

Will the UK be free after leaving the EU? Still no. It has to follow the same rules.


Those rules do not apply because the EU likes to enforce rules upon britain. The rules apply because the EU wants to have them. Anybody who wants to trade with the EU has to follow the same rules. Not trading the EU would kill the UK. There is no way to leave these rules behind and stay at their level of wealth.

Its like deciding to be free from gravity or other laws of physics. Even if you dont like them you can not just decide to leave and expect it to actually work.


Except only 8% of business trade with the EU but at the moment 100% have to abide by EU rules, by leaving you free 92% of business from EU rules.

8% of business in the world? Like the whole thing?

8% of British business

Did they take each publicly owned, billion dollar company and count that as one business? And then take the local liquor story and also count that as one business too? Because those numbers sound off.

It's what i like to call a "Boris Johnson Number". Like the 350mil. Worthless. It in fact doesn't even matter how many companies deal with the EU, considering that around 45% of ALL exports of the UK go to the EU.

In fact, i could not find a single source supporting his number (the only thing citing 8% is the percentage of exports going to BRICS). So most likely it's exactly as you said: Derrils Babershop, and pretty much every single local business that by nature can't do trade with the EU in the first place, was counted against big businesses a single entity.

Or, and that's more likely, he did like the leave campaign did. Pull stuff out of the ass and hope it sticks.

In an era of fear and confusion, the best plan always has been to make shit up. As Joe McCarthy. It took people 4 years before everyone realized he was full of shit in every way.


Nothing new, right.

Didn't take 4 years for people to realize that the brexit campaigners are full of shit though, considering they already debunked themselves multiple times. Or rather.. Should realize by now. Were they smart enough.

But i guess it's easier to harass polish people etc rather than admitting that you're one of the dumbest persons alive, falling for something that could've easily been debunked by just googling BEFORE the vote rather than after.


As people say, if an immigrant with basic English "steals" one's job, then the person who "lost" his job is probably a bad worker anyway. The question is: will the UK's politicians/people be dumb enough not to be part of the single market (EEA)? Admittedly, it's not as good as being part of EU, but they shouldn't have voted to leave anyway.

Any participation in single market means free movement of people. E.g. Switzerland decided in a referendum, that people do not want a free movement of people and EU declared that all partnering programs with Switzerland will stop since the end of 2016.
sOs | Rogue | Maru | Trap | Scarlett | Snute | MC
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-28 23:37:10
June 28 2016 23:35 GMT
#3553
On June 29 2016 08:33 Diabolique wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2016 08:23 Shield wrote:
On June 29 2016 08:01 m4ini wrote:
On June 29 2016 07:27 Plansix wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:56 m4ini wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:08 Plansix wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:04 jello_biafra wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:00 Plansix wrote:
On June 29 2016 05:56 Zaros wrote:
On June 29 2016 05:55 RoomOfMush wrote:
Is the UK free while it is in the EU? No. It has to follow rules set by the EU.

Will the UK be free after leaving the EU? Still no. It has to follow the same rules.


Those rules do not apply because the EU likes to enforce rules upon britain. The rules apply because the EU wants to have them. Anybody who wants to trade with the EU has to follow the same rules. Not trading the EU would kill the UK. There is no way to leave these rules behind and stay at their level of wealth.

Its like deciding to be free from gravity or other laws of physics. Even if you dont like them you can not just decide to leave and expect it to actually work.


Except only 8% of business trade with the EU but at the moment 100% have to abide by EU rules, by leaving you free 92% of business from EU rules.

8% of business in the world? Like the whole thing?

8% of British business

Did they take each publicly owned, billion dollar company and count that as one business? And then take the local liquor story and also count that as one business too? Because those numbers sound off.

It's what i like to call a "Boris Johnson Number". Like the 350mil. Worthless. It in fact doesn't even matter how many companies deal with the EU, considering that around 45% of ALL exports of the UK go to the EU.

In fact, i could not find a single source supporting his number (the only thing citing 8% is the percentage of exports going to BRICS). So most likely it's exactly as you said: Derrils Babershop, and pretty much every single local business that by nature can't do trade with the EU in the first place, was counted against big businesses a single entity.

Or, and that's more likely, he did like the leave campaign did. Pull stuff out of the ass and hope it sticks.

In an era of fear and confusion, the best plan always has been to make shit up. As Joe McCarthy. It took people 4 years before everyone realized he was full of shit in every way.


Nothing new, right.

Didn't take 4 years for people to realize that the brexit campaigners are full of shit though, considering they already debunked themselves multiple times. Or rather.. Should realize by now. Were they smart enough.

But i guess it's easier to harass polish people etc rather than admitting that you're one of the dumbest persons alive, falling for something that could've easily been debunked by just googling BEFORE the vote rather than after.


As people say, if an immigrant with basic English "steals" one's job, then the person who "lost" his job is probably a bad worker anyway. The question is: will the UK's politicians/people be dumb enough not to be part of the single market (EEA)? Admittedly, it's not as good as being part of EU, but they shouldn't have voted to leave anyway.

Any participation in single market means free movement of people. E.g. Switzerland decided in a referendum, that people do not want a free movement of people and EU declared that all partnering programs with Switzerland will stop since the end of 2016.


EEA has a cost. You can't reap benefits without taking some responsibility. Is it fair? I don't know, it's how EU works. If the UK wants to change that, it should have stayed. Criticising from the outside is meaningless now. EU has been very clear that they want to make a clear distinction between being part of EU and being part of EEA. Unfortunately, the UK may have to find out what it is.
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
June 29 2016 00:31 GMT
#3554
On June 29 2016 08:35 Shield wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2016 08:33 Diabolique wrote:
On June 29 2016 08:23 Shield wrote:
On June 29 2016 08:01 m4ini wrote:
On June 29 2016 07:27 Plansix wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:56 m4ini wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:08 Plansix wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:04 jello_biafra wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:00 Plansix wrote:
On June 29 2016 05:56 Zaros wrote:
[quote]

Except only 8% of business trade with the EU but at the moment 100% have to abide by EU rules, by leaving you free 92% of business from EU rules.

8% of business in the world? Like the whole thing?

8% of British business

Did they take each publicly owned, billion dollar company and count that as one business? And then take the local liquor story and also count that as one business too? Because those numbers sound off.

It's what i like to call a "Boris Johnson Number". Like the 350mil. Worthless. It in fact doesn't even matter how many companies deal with the EU, considering that around 45% of ALL exports of the UK go to the EU.

In fact, i could not find a single source supporting his number (the only thing citing 8% is the percentage of exports going to BRICS). So most likely it's exactly as you said: Derrils Babershop, and pretty much every single local business that by nature can't do trade with the EU in the first place, was counted against big businesses a single entity.

Or, and that's more likely, he did like the leave campaign did. Pull stuff out of the ass and hope it sticks.

In an era of fear and confusion, the best plan always has been to make shit up. As Joe McCarthy. It took people 4 years before everyone realized he was full of shit in every way.


Nothing new, right.

Didn't take 4 years for people to realize that the brexit campaigners are full of shit though, considering they already debunked themselves multiple times. Or rather.. Should realize by now. Were they smart enough.

But i guess it's easier to harass polish people etc rather than admitting that you're one of the dumbest persons alive, falling for something that could've easily been debunked by just googling BEFORE the vote rather than after.


As people say, if an immigrant with basic English "steals" one's job, then the person who "lost" his job is probably a bad worker anyway. The question is: will the UK's politicians/people be dumb enough not to be part of the single market (EEA)? Admittedly, it's not as good as being part of EU, but they shouldn't have voted to leave anyway.

Any participation in single market means free movement of people. E.g. Switzerland decided in a referendum, that people do not want a free movement of people and EU declared that all partnering programs with Switzerland will stop since the end of 2016.


EEA has a cost. You can't reap benefits without taking some responsibility. Is it fair? I don't know, it's how EU works. If the UK wants to change that, it should have stayed. Criticising from the outside is meaningless now. EU has been very clear that they want to make a clear distinction between being part of EU and being part of EEA. Unfortunately, the UK may have to find out what it is.


There's no access to the EEA without the "four freedoms". Switzerland had an exception for some reason (not fluent enough to comment on that) - but the EU commission already set in stone like 5 years ago that there will never be another one.

Biggest problem obviously being that the whole brexit thing revolves around exactly one of those four freedoms. The freedom of movement for european citizens. You know, polish welfare freeloaders, since that's all they do, apparently. That was the single biggest reason for voters to vote brexit. Dem damn freeloaders. And obviously, blatant racism in general, which got ridiculously bad after the referendum.

I don't think it's "unfortunate" either. It's rather "obvious". If you listen to a daily mail columnist, to the point that you actually fuck the next generations over based on racism.. It's kinda obvious that it'll backfire.
On track to MA1950A.
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9847 Posts
June 29 2016 01:50 GMT
#3555
By the way, this is Boris Johnson:
RIP Meatloaf <3
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 29 2016 04:27 GMT
#3556
Please tell me that is not the guy that might be PM?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43990 Posts
June 29 2016 04:30 GMT
#3557
On June 29 2016 13:27 Plansix wrote:
Please tell me that is not the guy that might be PM?

Probably will be.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Diabolique
Profile Joined June 2015
Czech Republic5118 Posts
June 29 2016 04:34 GMT
#3558
On June 29 2016 10:50 Jockmcplop wrote:
By the way, this is Boris Johnson:
https://youtu.be/UUYbxLri_Og

I expected, he would assault the commentator at the end of the video ... a great guy, he did not do it :-)
He has some self control ... that is good for a PM :-)
sOs | Rogue | Maru | Trap | Scarlett | Snute | MC
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6274 Posts
June 29 2016 05:14 GMT
#3559
On June 29 2016 09:31 m4ini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2016 08:35 Shield wrote:
On June 29 2016 08:33 Diabolique wrote:
On June 29 2016 08:23 Shield wrote:
On June 29 2016 08:01 m4ini wrote:
On June 29 2016 07:27 Plansix wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:56 m4ini wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:08 Plansix wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:04 jello_biafra wrote:
On June 29 2016 06:00 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
8% of business in the world? Like the whole thing?

8% of British business

Did they take each publicly owned, billion dollar company and count that as one business? And then take the local liquor story and also count that as one business too? Because those numbers sound off.

It's what i like to call a "Boris Johnson Number". Like the 350mil. Worthless. It in fact doesn't even matter how many companies deal with the EU, considering that around 45% of ALL exports of the UK go to the EU.

In fact, i could not find a single source supporting his number (the only thing citing 8% is the percentage of exports going to BRICS). So most likely it's exactly as you said: Derrils Babershop, and pretty much every single local business that by nature can't do trade with the EU in the first place, was counted against big businesses a single entity.

Or, and that's more likely, he did like the leave campaign did. Pull stuff out of the ass and hope it sticks.

In an era of fear and confusion, the best plan always has been to make shit up. As Joe McCarthy. It took people 4 years before everyone realized he was full of shit in every way.


Nothing new, right.

Didn't take 4 years for people to realize that the brexit campaigners are full of shit though, considering they already debunked themselves multiple times. Or rather.. Should realize by now. Were they smart enough.

But i guess it's easier to harass polish people etc rather than admitting that you're one of the dumbest persons alive, falling for something that could've easily been debunked by just googling BEFORE the vote rather than after.


As people say, if an immigrant with basic English "steals" one's job, then the person who "lost" his job is probably a bad worker anyway. The question is: will the UK's politicians/people be dumb enough not to be part of the single market (EEA)? Admittedly, it's not as good as being part of EU, but they shouldn't have voted to leave anyway.

Any participation in single market means free movement of people. E.g. Switzerland decided in a referendum, that people do not want a free movement of people and EU declared that all partnering programs with Switzerland will stop since the end of 2016.


EEA has a cost. You can't reap benefits without taking some responsibility. Is it fair? I don't know, it's how EU works. If the UK wants to change that, it should have stayed. Criticising from the outside is meaningless now. EU has been very clear that they want to make a clear distinction between being part of EU and being part of EEA. Unfortunately, the UK may have to find out what it is.


There's no access to the EEA without the "four freedoms". Switzerland had an exception for some reason (not fluent enough to comment on that) - but the EU commission already set in stone like 5 years ago that there will never be another one.

Biggest problem obviously being that the whole brexit thing revolves around exactly one of those four freedoms. The freedom of movement for european citizens. You know, polish welfare freeloaders, since that's all they do, apparently. That was the single biggest reason for voters to vote brexit. Dem damn freeloaders. And obviously, blatant racism in general, which got ridiculously bad after the referendum.

I don't think it's "unfortunate" either. It's rather "obvious". If you listen to a daily mail columnist, to the point that you actually fuck the next generations over based on racism.. It's kinda obvious that it'll backfire.

Switzerland doesn't have full access to the single market. Only yhe goods part not the services which would be most important for Britain.
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9847 Posts
June 29 2016 05:47 GMT
#3560
On June 29 2016 13:27 Plansix wrote:
Please tell me that is not the guy that might be PM?


In the UK we have a very different relationship to myths and stories than you guys.
Americans love a rags to riches story, a revenge story, and against all odds story etc.
In England we like a guy who's a fucking loser but manages to make it to the top anyway because no-one cares.
RIP Meatloaf <3
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