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United States10529 Posts
On June 24 2016 17:28 hfglgg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 17:26 FlaShFTW wrote:On June 24 2016 17:21 Lebesgue wrote:On June 24 2016 17:07 Linear wrote:On June 24 2016 17:04 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 24 2016 17:00 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 16:45 xM(Z wrote:On June 24 2016 16:27 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 16:24 xM(Z wrote:On June 24 2016 16:10 Cyro wrote:
[quote]
That's pretty amazing, wow can someone enlighten me about what's so amazing in that link?. i see the rich and their groupies voting remain and the poor and scared voted leave. what's the practical connection with education?. how can the education have the consequences they said it has?. Because apparantly there is a correlation between highly educated (people that, on average, are informed, understand the mechanisms) and the youth (people that, on average, are informed, and HIGHLY affected) that want to remain, and on the other hand older people (less informed, less affected) and poor (BLAME THE EU) to leave. - do they have university level pro-EU courses in UK?. - do those old and/or poor people lack the (mental?)capability to understand the latest debates on this issue?. - Because people that finish higher education tend to be better at understanding and critically questioning information. - Old people have other interests and are more affected by instinct over factual information: 'the past' when 'everything was better' for example. I can't recall there being "safe spaces" in universities 30 years ago.Progress! Fact is the youth are increasingly stuck in a child-like state, not able to think critically or entertain ideas outside of what the left wing politically correct dogma of the day is. Their argument was based on brexiters being "racist", ignoring the fact that Poland doesn't have any black people.The government in fact made it harder for Non-EU immigrants to enter because they were getting so many (overwhelmingly white) EU migrants. As a young person I don't give a flying fuck about the politics of the matter I only care what makes sound fiscal sense leaving the EU doesn't make any sense it that regard so it's a bad idea. Pretty simple concept to grasp. Spot on. What a f***ing mess this is. And that's why referendums with 50% thresholds are useless. A higher margin should be required for such a momentous decisions... because thats literally how a democracy works. majority wins. it doesnt.
Democracy: control of an organization or group by the majority of its members.
>50% = majority. Democracy how again?
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On June 25 2016 06:47 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 06:27 Diabolique wrote:On June 25 2016 06:14 nojok wrote:On June 25 2016 05:54 NukeD wrote:On June 25 2016 05:51 Hryul wrote:
Erdogan is portrayed almost as evil as Putin. Putin is evil? I'm quite a fan of the guy myself. So is most of Croatia. I wonder how rest of the European countries resonate on this. Annihilation of free press, murders of journalsits, maybe the richest person in the world, nah he's a great guy, sure... Exactly ... Putin is no evil, he is a very smart guy. A KGB agent, liar, mafia "associate" ... But in any case, he is clearly a megalomaniac, because Russia needs for this role some megalomaniac. But no evil. A very smart, rich and corrupt guy. If Trump stops to support the no-army EU with his military and the only country having some reasonable army, UK, leaves, there is a good possibility that Putin comes to (at least a part of) Europe to save the people with his tanks from the western decadence. Very dangerous. Most people here who talk about Russia with their "clever" one-liner zingers clearly have about as much knowledge about how things actually work in Russia as Yahoo News comment section trolls. I think that the Western propaganda channels have done a good enough job of demonizing him that that starts to seem acceptable. In case there are any people here who actually want some information, here's a tidbit that might be worth something. Putin definitely looks pretty bizarre by Western standards, in large part because he inherited one of the shittiest economic collapses possible, and has to deal with a rather corrupt system. Obviously he is not without fault, as he was a member of the corrupt elite that inherited the nation's wealth after 1991, but he stopped the economic raids of the 90s and coalesced those who inherited a lot into the new wealthy elite. Probably the best outcome given that those new billionaires were generally those who knew how to run the industry they acquired. And there's been quite a lot of successful anti-corruption measures in Russia over his tenure, especially starting about 5 years ago. Voting is of course problematic but his approval ratings (generally between 60% and 80%, though they've been much lower than that before) and electoral support are genuine. Most of the dislike for him, however, comes from the fact that Russian leaders, including Putin, have a tendency to be willing to oppose NATO interests, with force if necessary. It's been interesting to see how Western media oscillates between portraying him as a pragmatic leader and the next Hitler, depending on whether or not US and Russian FP interests align. Generally you can expect Russian action in some US sphere of influence to be followed by a propaganda blitz all over the US-allied world.
It is nice to see that you read some encyclopedic information. At the same time, unfortunately, you have not the slightest idea about Russia.
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On June 25 2016 06:51 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 06:49 plasmidghost wrote:On June 25 2016 06:45 Espers wrote:
the salt from the remain side is unreal.. older people should have their voting rights removed, working class are xenophobic, links between a lack of university education and voting leave so they're all uneducated plebians. so mad. Plus it's so many young people that are complaining, yet they were the group that showed up the least in numbers to vote I'm sure some people here would know better than I would: why is the youth population as pro-EU as they are?
It increases their ability to get jobs abroad and generally have more options to live in the EU. From a lot of the reports from the BBC and NPR, the majority of the votes to leave came from older voters who are in the UK and are unlikely to ever use the EU to find jobs.
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On June 25 2016 06:55 Diabolique wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 06:47 LegalLord wrote:On June 25 2016 06:27 Diabolique wrote:On June 25 2016 06:14 nojok wrote:On June 25 2016 05:54 NukeD wrote:On June 25 2016 05:51 Hryul wrote:
Erdogan is portrayed almost as evil as Putin. Putin is evil? I'm quite a fan of the guy myself. So is most of Croatia. I wonder how rest of the European countries resonate on this. Annihilation of free press, murders of journalsits, maybe the richest person in the world, nah he's a great guy, sure... Exactly ... Putin is no evil, he is a very smart guy. A KGB agent, liar, mafia "associate" ... But in any case, he is clearly a megalomaniac, because Russia needs for this role some megalomaniac. But no evil. A very smart, rich and corrupt guy. If Trump stops to support the no-army EU with his military and the only country having some reasonable army, UK, leaves, there is a good possibility that Putin comes to (at least a part of) Europe to save the people with his tanks from the western decadence. Very dangerous. Most people here who talk about Russia with their "clever" one-liner zingers clearly have about as much knowledge about how things actually work in Russia as Yahoo News comment section trolls. I think that the Western propaganda channels have done a good enough job of demonizing him that that starts to seem acceptable. In case there are any people here who actually want some information, here's a tidbit that might be worth something. Putin definitely looks pretty bizarre by Western standards, in large part because he inherited one of the shittiest economic collapses possible, and has to deal with a rather corrupt system. Obviously he is not without fault, as he was a member of the corrupt elite that inherited the nation's wealth after 1991, but he stopped the economic raids of the 90s and coalesced those who inherited a lot into the new wealthy elite. Probably the best outcome given that those new billionaires were generally those who knew how to run the industry they acquired. And there's been quite a lot of successful anti-corruption measures in Russia over his tenure, especially starting about 5 years ago. Voting is of course problematic but his approval ratings (generally between 60% and 80%, though they've been much lower than that before) and electoral support are genuine. Most of the dislike for him, however, comes from the fact that Russian leaders, including Putin, have a tendency to be willing to oppose NATO interests, with force if necessary. It's been interesting to see how Western media oscillates between portraying him as a pragmatic leader and the next Hitler, depending on whether or not US and Russian FP interests align. Generally you can expect Russian action in some US sphere of influence to be followed by a propaganda blitz all over the US-allied world. It is nice to see that you read some encyclopedic information. At the same time, unfortunately, you have not the slightest idea about Russia.
Yeah, pointless to talk to people who are mostly just looking to post dismissive one-liners. Guess we're done here then.
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On June 25 2016 06:55 Diabolique wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 06:47 LegalLord wrote:On June 25 2016 06:27 Diabolique wrote:On June 25 2016 06:14 nojok wrote:On June 25 2016 05:54 NukeD wrote:On June 25 2016 05:51 Hryul wrote:
Erdogan is portrayed almost as evil as Putin. Putin is evil? I'm quite a fan of the guy myself. So is most of Croatia. I wonder how rest of the European countries resonate on this. Annihilation of free press, murders of journalsits, maybe the richest person in the world, nah he's a great guy, sure... Exactly ... Putin is no evil, he is a very smart guy. A KGB agent, liar, mafia "associate" ... But in any case, he is clearly a megalomaniac, because Russia needs for this role some megalomaniac. But no evil. A very smart, rich and corrupt guy. If Trump stops to support the no-army EU with his military and the only country having some reasonable army, UK, leaves, there is a good possibility that Putin comes to (at least a part of) Europe to save the people with his tanks from the western decadence. Very dangerous. Most people here who talk about Russia with their "clever" one-liner zingers clearly have about as much knowledge about how things actually work in Russia as Yahoo News comment section trolls. I think that the Western propaganda channels have done a good enough job of demonizing him that that starts to seem acceptable. In case there are any people here who actually want some information, here's a tidbit that might be worth something. Putin definitely looks pretty bizarre by Western standards, in large part because he inherited one of the shittiest economic collapses possible, and has to deal with a rather corrupt system. Obviously he is not without fault, as he was a member of the corrupt elite that inherited the nation's wealth after 1991, but he stopped the economic raids of the 90s and coalesced those who inherited a lot into the new wealthy elite. Probably the best outcome given that those new billionaires were generally those who knew how to run the industry they acquired. And there's been quite a lot of successful anti-corruption measures in Russia over his tenure, especially starting about 5 years ago. Voting is of course problematic but his approval ratings (generally between 60% and 80%, though they've been much lower than that before) and electoral support are genuine. Most of the dislike for him, however, comes from the fact that Russian leaders, including Putin, have a tendency to be willing to oppose NATO interests, with force if necessary. It's been interesting to see how Western media oscillates between portraying him as a pragmatic leader and the next Hitler, depending on whether or not US and Russian FP interests align. Generally you can expect Russian action in some US sphere of influence to be followed by a propaganda blitz all over the US-allied world. It is nice to see that you read some encyclopedic information. At the same time, unfortunately, you have not the slightest idea about Russia.
Since you said it then clearly he does not.
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On June 25 2016 06:37 JazVM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 06:36 Gorsameth wrote:On June 25 2016 06:31 JazVM wrote:
The thing I am most curous about is what the pro-Brexit camp thinks about what "Brexit" really means. Complete isolation from the EU? A non-member but a de facto member? A member without the freedom of movement of workers? And if it's something that doensn't include beeing a member of the European Union (and therefore the freedom of movement of workers), how do those people imagine it better from Great Britain? I mean economy wise, not in a sense of accomplishment of a national(ist) idea. They mostly seem to assume that England will re-negotiate all the trade deals with minimal loss and halt unwanted immigration. How can any educated person not just "lol" to that kinda thinking?
The UK has a large deficit with the EU, if the EU suddenly stopped trading with the UK the result would be the UK saving a lot of money.
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On June 25 2016 06:54 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 17:28 hfglgg wrote:On June 24 2016 17:26 FlaShFTW wrote:On June 24 2016 17:21 Lebesgue wrote:On June 24 2016 17:07 Linear wrote:On June 24 2016 17:04 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 24 2016 17:00 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 16:45 xM(Z wrote:On June 24 2016 16:27 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 16:24 xM(Z wrote:
[quote]
can someone enlighten me about what's so amazing in that link?.
i see the rich and their groupies voting remain and the poor and scared voted leave.
what's the practical connection with education?. how can the education have the consequences they said it has?. Because apparantly there is a correlation between highly educated (people that, on average, are informed, understand the mechanisms) and the youth (people that, on average, are informed, and HIGHLY affected) that want to remain, and on the other hand older people (less informed, less affected) and poor (BLAME THE EU) to leave. - do they have university level pro-EU courses in UK?. - do those old and/or poor people lack the (mental?)capability to understand the latest debates on this issue?. - Because people that finish higher education tend to be better at understanding and critically questioning information. - Old people have other interests and are more affected by instinct over factual information: 'the past' when 'everything was better' for example. I can't recall there being "safe spaces" in universities 30 years ago.Progress! Fact is the youth are increasingly stuck in a child-like state, not able to think critically or entertain ideas outside of what the left wing politically correct dogma of the day is. Their argument was based on brexiters being "racist", ignoring the fact that Poland doesn't have any black people.The government in fact made it harder for Non-EU immigrants to enter because they were getting so many (overwhelmingly white) EU migrants. As a young person I don't give a flying fuck about the politics of the matter I only care what makes sound fiscal sense leaving the EU doesn't make any sense it that regard so it's a bad idea. Pretty simple concept to grasp. Spot on. What a f***ing mess this is. And that's why referendums with 50% thresholds are useless. A higher margin should be required for such a momentous decisions... because thats literally how a democracy works. majority wins. it doesnt. Democracy: control of an organization or group by the majority of its members. >50% = majority. Democracy how again?
i heard that more than 50% of the americans voters acutally voted for gore
have you ever heard about that? i guess the USA is no democracy
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On June 25 2016 06:57 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 06:55 Diabolique wrote:On June 25 2016 06:47 LegalLord wrote:On June 25 2016 06:27 Diabolique wrote:On June 25 2016 06:14 nojok wrote:On June 25 2016 05:54 NukeD wrote:On June 25 2016 05:51 Hryul wrote:
Erdogan is portrayed almost as evil as Putin. Putin is evil? I'm quite a fan of the guy myself. So is most of Croatia. I wonder how rest of the European countries resonate on this. Annihilation of free press, murders of journalsits, maybe the richest person in the world, nah he's a great guy, sure... Exactly ... Putin is no evil, he is a very smart guy. A KGB agent, liar, mafia "associate" ... But in any case, he is clearly a megalomaniac, because Russia needs for this role some megalomaniac. But no evil. A very smart, rich and corrupt guy. If Trump stops to support the no-army EU with his military and the only country having some reasonable army, UK, leaves, there is a good possibility that Putin comes to (at least a part of) Europe to save the people with his tanks from the western decadence. Very dangerous. Most people here who talk about Russia with their "clever" one-liner zingers clearly have about as much knowledge about how things actually work in Russia as Yahoo News comment section trolls. I think that the Western propaganda channels have done a good enough job of demonizing him that that starts to seem acceptable. In case there are any people here who actually want some information, here's a tidbit that might be worth something. Putin definitely looks pretty bizarre by Western standards, in large part because he inherited one of the shittiest economic collapses possible, and has to deal with a rather corrupt system. Obviously he is not without fault, as he was a member of the corrupt elite that inherited the nation's wealth after 1991, but he stopped the economic raids of the 90s and coalesced those who inherited a lot into the new wealthy elite. Probably the best outcome given that those new billionaires were generally those who knew how to run the industry they acquired. And there's been quite a lot of successful anti-corruption measures in Russia over his tenure, especially starting about 5 years ago. Voting is of course problematic but his approval ratings (generally between 60% and 80%, though they've been much lower than that before) and electoral support are genuine. Most of the dislike for him, however, comes from the fact that Russian leaders, including Putin, have a tendency to be willing to oppose NATO interests, with force if necessary. It's been interesting to see how Western media oscillates between portraying him as a pragmatic leader and the next Hitler, depending on whether or not US and Russian FP interests align. Generally you can expect Russian action in some US sphere of influence to be followed by a propaganda blitz all over the US-allied world. It is nice to see that you read some encyclopedic information. At the same time, unfortunately, you have not the slightest idea about Russia. Yeah, pointless to talk to people who are mostly just looking to post dismissive one-liners. Guess we're done here then.
I appreciated your post. Thanks.
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On June 25 2016 06:54 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 17:28 hfglgg wrote:On June 24 2016 17:26 FlaShFTW wrote:On June 24 2016 17:21 Lebesgue wrote:On June 24 2016 17:07 Linear wrote:On June 24 2016 17:04 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 24 2016 17:00 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 16:45 xM(Z wrote:On June 24 2016 16:27 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 16:24 xM(Z wrote:
[quote]
can someone enlighten me about what's so amazing in that link?.
i see the rich and their groupies voting remain and the poor and scared voted leave.
what's the practical connection with education?. how can the education have the consequences they said it has?. Because apparantly there is a correlation between highly educated (people that, on average, are informed, understand the mechanisms) and the youth (people that, on average, are informed, and HIGHLY affected) that want to remain, and on the other hand older people (less informed, less affected) and poor (BLAME THE EU) to leave. - do they have university level pro-EU courses in UK?. - do those old and/or poor people lack the (mental?)capability to understand the latest debates on this issue?. - Because people that finish higher education tend to be better at understanding and critically questioning information. - Old people have other interests and are more affected by instinct over factual information: 'the past' when 'everything was better' for example. I can't recall there being "safe spaces" in universities 30 years ago.Progress! Fact is the youth are increasingly stuck in a child-like state, not able to think critically or entertain ideas outside of what the left wing politically correct dogma of the day is. Their argument was based on brexiters being "racist", ignoring the fact that Poland doesn't have any black people.The government in fact made it harder for Non-EU immigrants to enter because they were getting so many (overwhelmingly white) EU migrants. As a young person I don't give a flying fuck about the politics of the matter I only care what makes sound fiscal sense leaving the EU doesn't make any sense it that regard so it's a bad idea. Pretty simple concept to grasp. Spot on. What a f***ing mess this is. And that's why referendums with 50% thresholds are useless. A higher margin should be required for such a momentous decisions... because thats literally how a democracy works. majority wins. it doesnt. Democracy: control of an organization or group by the majority of its members. >50% = majority. Democracy how again?
Um....here in the US we require a two thirds majority to pull shit of this level. We do not allow tyranny of the majority to, say for instance, create new states or amend the constitution.
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On June 25 2016 06:57 TRAP[yoo] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 06:54 FlaShFTW wrote:On June 24 2016 17:28 hfglgg wrote:On June 24 2016 17:26 FlaShFTW wrote:On June 24 2016 17:21 Lebesgue wrote:On June 24 2016 17:07 Linear wrote:On June 24 2016 17:04 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 24 2016 17:00 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 16:45 xM(Z wrote:On June 24 2016 16:27 SC2Toastie wrote:
[quote]
Because apparantly there is a correlation between highly educated (people that, on average, are informed, understand the mechanisms) and the youth (people that, on average, are informed, and HIGHLY affected) that want to remain, and on the other hand older people (less informed, less affected) and poor (BLAME THE EU) to leave. - do they have university level pro-EU courses in UK?. - do those old and/or poor people lack the (mental?)capability to understand the latest debates on this issue?. - Because people that finish higher education tend to be better at understanding and critically questioning information. - Old people have other interests and are more affected by instinct over factual information: 'the past' when 'everything was better' for example. I can't recall there being "safe spaces" in universities 30 years ago.Progress! Fact is the youth are increasingly stuck in a child-like state, not able to think critically or entertain ideas outside of what the left wing politically correct dogma of the day is. Their argument was based on brexiters being "racist", ignoring the fact that Poland doesn't have any black people.The government in fact made it harder for Non-EU immigrants to enter because they were getting so many (overwhelmingly white) EU migrants. As a young person I don't give a flying fuck about the politics of the matter I only care what makes sound fiscal sense leaving the EU doesn't make any sense it that regard so it's a bad idea. Pretty simple concept to grasp. Spot on. What a f***ing mess this is. And that's why referendums with 50% thresholds are useless. A higher margin should be required for such a momentous decisions... because thats literally how a democracy works. majority wins. it doesnt. Democracy: control of an organization or group by the majority of its members. >50% = majority. Democracy how again? i heard that more than 50% of the americans voters acutally voted for gore have you ever heard about that? i guess the USA is no democracy
This is incorrect. He netted 0.5% more votes than Bush, but neither was over 50%.
The U.S.'s electoral system gives all electorates from a state to whoever wins the majority of the state. This means if Candidate X wins all his states over Candidate Y by a 51-49% majority but Candidate Y wins all his States by a 70-30% majority, candidate X could end up winning the presidency despite Candidate Y having more total votes.
It's more aptly a democratic republic than a democracy.
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On June 25 2016 06:59 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 06:57 TRAP[yoo] wrote:On June 25 2016 06:54 FlaShFTW wrote:On June 24 2016 17:28 hfglgg wrote:On June 24 2016 17:26 FlaShFTW wrote:On June 24 2016 17:21 Lebesgue wrote:On June 24 2016 17:07 Linear wrote:On June 24 2016 17:04 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 24 2016 17:00 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 16:45 xM(Z wrote:
[quote]
- do they have university level pro-EU courses in UK?.
- do those old and/or poor people lack the (mental?)capability to understand the latest debates on this issue?.
- Because people that finish higher education tend to be better at understanding and critically questioning information. - Old people have other interests and are more affected by instinct over factual information: 'the past' when 'everything was better' for example. I can't recall there being "safe spaces" in universities 30 years ago.Progress! Fact is the youth are increasingly stuck in a child-like state, not able to think critically or entertain ideas outside of what the left wing politically correct dogma of the day is. Their argument was based on brexiters being "racist", ignoring the fact that Poland doesn't have any black people.The government in fact made it harder for Non-EU immigrants to enter because they were getting so many (overwhelmingly white) EU migrants. As a young person I don't give a flying fuck about the politics of the matter I only care what makes sound fiscal sense leaving the EU doesn't make any sense it that regard so it's a bad idea. Pretty simple concept to grasp. Spot on. What a f***ing mess this is. And that's why referendums with 50% thresholds are useless. A higher margin should be required for such a momentous decisions... because thats literally how a democracy works. majority wins. it doesnt. Democracy: control of an organization or group by the majority of its members. >50% = majority. Democracy how again? i heard that more than 50% of the americans voters acutally voted for gore have you ever heard about that? i guess the USA is no democracy This is incorrect. He netted 0.5% more votes than Bush, but neither was over 50%.
im done goofed 
edit: listening 30minutes to this stefan molyneux guy actually fucked my brain. thank god p6 is here
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On June 25 2016 06:52 Makro wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 06:27 Diabolique wrote:On June 25 2016 06:14 nojok wrote:On June 25 2016 05:54 NukeD wrote:On June 25 2016 05:51 Hryul wrote:
Erdogan is portrayed almost as evil as Putin. Putin is evil? I'm quite a fan of the guy myself. So is most of Croatia. I wonder how rest of the European countries resonate on this. Annihilation of free press, murders of journalsits, maybe the richest person in the world, nah he's a great guy, sure... Exactly ... Putin is no evil, he is a very smart guy. A KGB agent, liar, mafia "associate" ... But in any case, he is clearly a megalomaniac, because Russia needs for this role some megalomaniac. But no evil. A very smart, rich and corrupt guy. If Trump stops to support the no-army EU with his military and the only country having some reasonable army, UK, leaves, there is a good possibility that Putin comes to (at least a part of) Europe to save the people with his tanks from the western decadence. Very dangerous. you did forget that the UK isn't the only military power in the european union, France is also one and the most active (both have the nuclear weapon) the thing is, none of them would push the button except if the integrity of their own territory are in direct danger since none of them have the manpower to counter balance a ground offensive of Russia UK leaving won't change much in that regard take a look at this, a funny explanative video
Sorry, I forgot you, France :-) You have the Légion étrangère ... I did not mean nuclear weapons, I just read few weeks ago about how the German soldiers had to leave some NATO one month long military exercise because they have spent all allowed overtime within a week. That is an army, Putin would be happy to fight :-) He would just wait, until their working time is over and would attack after that.
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On June 25 2016 06:58 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 06:54 FlaShFTW wrote:On June 24 2016 17:28 hfglgg wrote:On June 24 2016 17:26 FlaShFTW wrote:On June 24 2016 17:21 Lebesgue wrote:On June 24 2016 17:07 Linear wrote:On June 24 2016 17:04 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 24 2016 17:00 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 16:45 xM(Z wrote:On June 24 2016 16:27 SC2Toastie wrote:
[quote]
Because apparantly there is a correlation between highly educated (people that, on average, are informed, understand the mechanisms) and the youth (people that, on average, are informed, and HIGHLY affected) that want to remain, and on the other hand older people (less informed, less affected) and poor (BLAME THE EU) to leave. - do they have university level pro-EU courses in UK?. - do those old and/or poor people lack the (mental?)capability to understand the latest debates on this issue?. - Because people that finish higher education tend to be better at understanding and critically questioning information. - Old people have other interests and are more affected by instinct over factual information: 'the past' when 'everything was better' for example. I can't recall there being "safe spaces" in universities 30 years ago.Progress! Fact is the youth are increasingly stuck in a child-like state, not able to think critically or entertain ideas outside of what the left wing politically correct dogma of the day is. Their argument was based on brexiters being "racist", ignoring the fact that Poland doesn't have any black people.The government in fact made it harder for Non-EU immigrants to enter because they were getting so many (overwhelmingly white) EU migrants. As a young person I don't give a flying fuck about the politics of the matter I only care what makes sound fiscal sense leaving the EU doesn't make any sense it that regard so it's a bad idea. Pretty simple concept to grasp. Spot on. What a f***ing mess this is. And that's why referendums with 50% thresholds are useless. A higher margin should be required for such a momentous decisions... because thats literally how a democracy works. majority wins. it doesnt. Democracy: control of an organization or group by the majority of its members. >50% = majority. Democracy how again? Um....here in the US we require a two thirds majority to pull shit of this level. We do not allow tyranny of the majority to, say for instance, create new states or amend the constitution.
There's a petition to this effect that no-one noticed until this morning
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On June 25 2016 07:01 Deleuze wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 06:58 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2016 06:54 FlaShFTW wrote:On June 24 2016 17:28 hfglgg wrote:On June 24 2016 17:26 FlaShFTW wrote:On June 24 2016 17:21 Lebesgue wrote:On June 24 2016 17:07 Linear wrote:On June 24 2016 17:04 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 24 2016 17:00 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 16:45 xM(Z wrote:
[quote]
- do they have university level pro-EU courses in UK?.
- do those old and/or poor people lack the (mental?)capability to understand the latest debates on this issue?.
- Because people that finish higher education tend to be better at understanding and critically questioning information. - Old people have other interests and are more affected by instinct over factual information: 'the past' when 'everything was better' for example. I can't recall there being "safe spaces" in universities 30 years ago.Progress! Fact is the youth are increasingly stuck in a child-like state, not able to think critically or entertain ideas outside of what the left wing politically correct dogma of the day is. Their argument was based on brexiters being "racist", ignoring the fact that Poland doesn't have any black people.The government in fact made it harder for Non-EU immigrants to enter because they were getting so many (overwhelmingly white) EU migrants. As a young person I don't give a flying fuck about the politics of the matter I only care what makes sound fiscal sense leaving the EU doesn't make any sense it that regard so it's a bad idea. Pretty simple concept to grasp. Spot on. What a f***ing mess this is. And that's why referendums with 50% thresholds are useless. A higher margin should be required for such a momentous decisions... because thats literally how a democracy works. majority wins. it doesnt. Democracy: control of an organization or group by the majority of its members. >50% = majority. Democracy how again? Um....here in the US we require a two thirds majority to pull shit of this level. We do not allow tyranny of the majority to, say for instance, create new states or amend the constitution. There's a petition to this effect that no-one noticed until this morning
I love all the people who are experts on how democracy works and don’t understand the basic concept of tyranny of the majority and that is destroys unions. But hey, you got 1% more than the other side, I guess that is a mandate for this crazy thing that will alter the very fabric of the nation.
The vote is over and its done, but whoever said it could be 50% to be valid an idiot.
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On June 25 2016 06:47 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 06:27 Diabolique wrote:On June 25 2016 06:14 nojok wrote:On June 25 2016 05:54 NukeD wrote:On June 25 2016 05:51 Hryul wrote:
Erdogan is portrayed almost as evil as Putin. Putin is evil? I'm quite a fan of the guy myself. So is most of Croatia. I wonder how rest of the European countries resonate on this. Annihilation of free press, murders of journalsits, maybe the richest person in the world, nah he's a great guy, sure... Exactly ... Putin is no evil, he is a very smart guy. A KGB agent, liar, mafia "associate" ... But in any case, he is clearly a megalomaniac, because Russia needs for this role some megalomaniac. But no evil. A very smart, rich and corrupt guy. If Trump stops to support the no-army EU with his military and the only country having some reasonable army, UK, leaves, there is a good possibility that Putin comes to (at least a part of) Europe to save the people with his tanks from the western decadence. Very dangerous. Most people here who talk about Russia with their "clever" one-liner zingers clearly have about as much knowledge about how things actually work in Russia as Yahoo News comment section trolls. I think that the Western propaganda channels have done a good enough job of demonizing him that that starts to seem acceptable. In case there are any people here who actually want some information, here's a tidbit that might be worth something. Putin definitely looks pretty bizarre by Western standards, in large part because he inherited one of the shittiest economic collapses possible, and has to deal with a rather corrupt system. Obviously he is not without fault, as he was a member of the corrupt elite that inherited the nation's wealth after 1991, but he stopped the economic raids of the 90s and coalesced those who inherited a lot into the new wealthy elite. Probably the best outcome given that those new billionaires were generally those who knew how to run the industry they acquired. And there's been quite a lot of successful anti-corruption measures in Russia over his tenure, especially starting about 5 years ago. Voting is of course problematic but his approval ratings (generally between 60% and 80%, though they've been much lower than that before) and electoral support are genuine. Most of the dislike for him, however, comes from the fact that Russian leaders, including Putin, have a tendency to be willing to oppose NATO interests, with force if necessary. It's been interesting to see how Western media oscillates between portraying him as a pragmatic leader and the next Hitler, depending on whether or not US and Russian FP interests align. Generally you can expect Russian action in some US sphere of influence to be followed by a propaganda blitz all over the US-allied world.
How about the fact that Putin still uses a form of crony capitalism, didn't diversify the economy away from oil at all, supresses free press and free speech, goes into pointless wars and oversees a huge recession. I'm not going to say he didn't do good things since I am sure he did but there is plenty of critique you can level at him next to not being friendly to NATO.
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On June 25 2016 07:05 plasmidghost wrote:
Good lord, Gibraltar voted 96% in favor of Remain, is there any other place in the UK with figures nearly that one-sided?
Gibraltar is overseas British territory so it makes sense.
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On June 25 2016 07:05 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 07:01 Deleuze wrote:On June 25 2016 06:58 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2016 06:54 FlaShFTW wrote:On June 24 2016 17:28 hfglgg wrote:On June 24 2016 17:26 FlaShFTW wrote:On June 24 2016 17:21 Lebesgue wrote:On June 24 2016 17:07 Linear wrote:On June 24 2016 17:04 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 24 2016 17:00 SC2Toastie wrote:
[quote]
- Because people that finish higher education tend to be better at understanding and critically questioning information.
- Old people have other interests and are more affected by instinct over factual information: 'the past' when 'everything was better' for example. I can't recall there being "safe spaces" in universities 30 years ago.Progress! Fact is the youth are increasingly stuck in a child-like state, not able to think critically or entertain ideas outside of what the left wing politically correct dogma of the day is. Their argument was based on brexiters being "racist", ignoring the fact that Poland doesn't have any black people.The government in fact made it harder for Non-EU immigrants to enter because they were getting so many (overwhelmingly white) EU migrants. As a young person I don't give a flying fuck about the politics of the matter I only care what makes sound fiscal sense leaving the EU doesn't make any sense it that regard so it's a bad idea. Pretty simple concept to grasp. Spot on. What a f***ing mess this is. And that's why referendums with 50% thresholds are useless. A higher margin should be required for such a momentous decisions... because thats literally how a democracy works. majority wins. it doesnt. Democracy: control of an organization or group by the majority of its members. >50% = majority. Democracy how again? Um....here in the US we require a two thirds majority to pull shit of this level. We do not allow tyranny of the majority to, say for instance, create new states or amend the constitution. There's a petition to this effect that no-one noticed until this morning I love all the people who are experts on how democracy works and don’t understand the basic concept of tyranny of the majority and that is destroys unions. But hey, you got 1% more than the other side, I guess that is a mandate for this crazy thing that will alter the very fabric of the nation. The vote is over and its done, but whoever said it could be 50% to be valid an idiot.
Some people are regretting their 'protest' votes now. Dunno actual figures, but personally I've seen brexiteers sharing this petition in remorse. I laugh at them. They've made a bed that I have to sleep in.
That's how you do a referendumb.
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On June 25 2016 07:09 Reaps wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2016 07:05 plasmidghost wrote:
Good lord, Gibraltar voted 96% in favor of Remain, is there any other place in the UK with figures nearly that one-sided? Gibraltar is overseas British territory so it makes sense.
When you need to cross the border to go shopping you tend to value something like free movement of people.
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Oh dear, the UK politics thread has been taken over by non UK people. To quickly answer the last 3 pages of randomness:
Since Scotland and Ireland will be likely to secede, Little England(er) would be an appropriate name. Wales might take offence. BTW Great Britain is the name of the main island, not the name of the country. The name of our country is actually The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland or UK for short.
No, UK will not ally with Russia. Don't be silly. Perhaps if England feels like invading France. Or Ukraine. Got to use that most powerful military in the EU somewhere to detract from lack of oil revenue when Scotland leaves I guess.
The Leave media vastly outperformed Remain media. It was so lopsided that if you got the opposite impression, congratulations, you read one of the only few remaining quality newspapers in UK.
Nobody has a clue what a brexit actually means. It's unprecedented and it wasn't laid out by the "leaders" of the brexit camp who seems rather suprised that they have won. Especially Boris Johnson who did a runner when left his house in the moring.
The youth population are pro-EU because they are the ones most affected by leaving the EU.
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EPT
