EPTUK Politics Mega-thread - Page 135
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Linear
60 Posts
On June 24 2016 22:15 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: So was there any truth to what Nigel Farage said that there are polls in Sweden, Denmark, and The Netherlands that majority of people want a referendum to leave the EU? Don't know but based on his track record of statistics more than likely it's all bs. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2844 Posts
On June 24 2016 22:15 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: So was there any truth to what Nigel Farage said that there are polls in Sweden, Denmark, and The Netherlands that majority of people want a referendum to leave the EU? Not really. The Netherlands I am not sure about but Sweden is atm more pro EU than England is and I think that so is Denmark. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On June 24 2016 22:06 Plansix wrote: Yeah, but a fast response will only galvanize the opposition. The referendum was a year or more in the making. They have time. I think it a reasonable plan to just express disappointment and letting the slow reality of what leaving the EU means unfold for everyone. This isn’t going to be fun for anyone, especially the 49% of the UK that wanted stay. Exactly. Long term they want to "do what is necessary and respect the decision of the UK" and let any backlash be focused on who pushed for the split. Both the EU and the U.K. are going to be hugely affected by this, so it's not like they can sit and point, "see? That's what leaving the EU looks like!" Act punitively against the UK and that basically lets all the Eurosceptics say that they are being held in the EU at gunpoint. Among those few nations left that value nationalism over money, that won't bode well for the EU. | ||
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Laurens
Belgium4557 Posts
On June 24 2016 22:21 LegalLord wrote: Both the EU and the U.K. are going to be hugely affected by this, so it's not like they can sit and point, "see? That's what leaving the EU looks like!" Act punitively against the UK and that basically lets all the Eurosceptics say that they are being held in the EU at gunpoint. Among those few nations left that value nationalism over money, that won't bode well for the EU. Well the opposite doesn't bode well either, as I'm sure you can see. "Look guys, the UK left the EU and they're doing just fine!" The EU will be harsh in the negotiations I'm sure. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On June 24 2016 22:15 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: So was there any truth to what Nigel Farage said that there are polls in Sweden, Denmark, and The Netherlands that majority of people want a referendum to leave the EU? I linked this upthread: http://www.newsweek.com/nearly-half-voters-eight-eu-countries-want-own-brexit-referendum-457412 Consider it at least half true. That's not to say that calling for a vote means that they want to vote to leave though. Just that they want to vote. | ||
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
On June 24 2016 22:19 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Not really. The Netherlands I am not sure about but Sweden is atm more pro EU than England is and I think that so is Denmark. the danish better be. they brought the curved cucumber regulations over us, they stick till the end. | ||
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Elizar
Germany431 Posts
As if they knew this would happen ... *tinfoilhat* | ||
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lpunatic
235 Posts
On June 24 2016 20:57 OtherWorld wrote: So 40% or 25% = 100%, and that proves that all Muslims are heinous and evil? Geez, I guess with that kind of reasoning you can also claim that every single voter of a anti-european party is a racist who fantasizes about whipping migrants at night. Then show it. I'm tired of that kind of response that is completely baseless. You could just as well tell me that information about whatever conspiracy theory is "widely available, just google it". So I did a bit of googling as the 40% number floating around was surprisingly high. First result, 24% want sharia law https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law Not easy to get a comparison on that question to similar groups, but from the same source 52% of Muslims disagreed with homosexuality being legal in britain. This compares with about 40% of people subscribing to various Christian denominations saying that homosexuality was "always wrong" or "almost always wrong" - I suspect that if you asked them about legality that number would be lower, but I don't know how much. http://www.brin.ac.uk/figures/attitudes-towards-gay-rights/ I don't have a strong enough idea of how disagreeable beliefs translate to disagreeable actions to judge how much of a cause for concern this is. Crime statistics might be more immediately useful. I'm very perturbed by the brexit. Seems like an act of reckless vandalism. | ||
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lpunatic
235 Posts
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
On June 24 2016 22:15 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: So was there any truth to what Nigel Farage said that there are polls in Sweden, Denmark, and The Netherlands that majority of people want a referendum to leave the EU? We just had an opinion poll last week in the biggest Czech newspaper that the supporters of CZEXIT would win 53% : 47%. We want to be part of the EU, but definitely not the part of this dictatorship buerocratic machine ... 100.000 people voted (in a nation of something like 6-7 millions people, who can vote). | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On June 24 2016 22:22 Laurens wrote: Well the opposite doesn't bode well either, as I'm sure you can see. "Look guys, the UK left the EU and they're doing just fine!" The EU will be harsh in the negotiations I'm sure. Of course there is always the other Eurosceptic-fodder interpretation that might be taken out of this: "The UK is doing badly, but that's only because the EU is trying to make an example out of them to keep its crumbling alliance from falling apart." Even if it isn't true that it's all the EU's fault. If it's some obvious punitive measures then people will clearly see that they were, in fact, punitive. | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On June 24 2016 22:10 Banaora wrote: There will be people trying to frame it this way. The thing is access to the single market can only happen with free movement of money, goods and people. And there cannot be an exception for the U.K. because if there were then other nations also would want to start cherry-picking. Norway and Switzerland agree on this. Norway even pays into the EU without having any say just to access the single market. Considering the common market came about before most of the rest of the treaties, it's clearly not the case of needing free movement of "money, goods and people". Which also doesn't bring up the fact that the UK never adopted the Euro itself, thus the money movement wouldn't be wholly "free" in the context the terms, in theory, mean. Also, considering the EU is functionally a collection of Treaties, it will be up the UK authorities to decide which ones to leave, keep or renegotiate. The details of all of this are going to work out over a decade, not 2 years. Lastly, it's not like all of the things that everyone is claiming are going to be supremely problematic actually will be. People have been doing business & traveling around Europe for many centuries before the EU was formed. Which is what makes some of the hysterics from people quite amazing to watch. (That one would need a passport to travel to an island nation is hardly the biggest hindrance in the world.) | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
On June 24 2016 21:58 Nebuchad wrote: You get the same discussion because you're furthering the same points. Please consider the casual difference between saying something like "I have concerns about radical islam, but I don't want to paint "all" of them as heinous and evil. Which is why I question how we keep considering Saudi Arabia as our great ally and let it spread wahabism everywhere." and something like "I have concerns about radical islam, but I don't want to paint "all" of them as heinous and evil. Which is why I don't want to accept refugees." Notice how one targets radical islam, and one targets muslims. Notice how you're always here to support the second. Understand why the wall is met. My point precisely. From 'our' point of view, the term 'radical Islam' is a tautology. Mainstream Islam, not ISIS, not Al Qaeda, not Wahhabism, would be considered off-the-spectrum-far-right and radical by any measure if it didn't have the privilege of being a minority religion and thus being above critical inspection. The notion that people who were indoctrinated by this cancerous ideology from a very young age would just leave it at the door isn't just absurd, it's demonstrably wrong. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
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stilt
France2755 Posts
On June 24 2016 22:15 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: So was there any truth to what Nigel Farage said that there are polls in Sweden, Denmark, and The Netherlands that majority of people want a referendum to leave the EU? In France, it could work yes. It would be 50-50 and more the time pass, more the EU popularity decreases. | ||
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Banaora
Germany234 Posts
On June 24 2016 22:30 Taf the Ghost wrote: Considering the common market came about before most of the rest of the treaties, it's clearly not the case of needing free movement of "money, goods and people". Which also doesn't bring up the fact that the UK never adopted the Euro itself, thus the money movement wouldn't be wholly "free" in the context the terms, in theory, mean. Also, considering the EU is functionally a collection of Treaties, it will be up the UK authorities to decide which ones to leave, keep or renegotiate. The details of all of this are going to work out over a decade, not 2 years. Lastly, it's not like all of the things that everyone is claiming are going to be supremely problematic actually will be. People have been doing business & traveling around Europe for many centuries before the EU was formed. Which is what makes some of the hysterics from people quite amazing to watch. (That one would need a passport to travel to an island nation is hardly the biggest hindrance in the world.) I was bringing this up because to access the single market you need to allow people from the single market to work and live in your country if they can sustain themselves. And part of Brexit was about Britain wanting total control who works and lives in Britain and denying some people from Europe and rather take people from the Commonwealth. There is a problem here. Free movement of money does not mean everybody has to adopt the Euro. There are many countries with access to the single market that have their own currency like Switzerland, Norway, Denmark, Poland,... Freedom of money means that you can buy stuff in other countries without worrying about tariffs. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6303 Posts
On June 24 2016 21:58 Plansix wrote: That doesn’t seem to be the tone I am hearing in the news this morning. Mostly just sad that it is happening an concern that millions of British citizens that live abroad in the EU. There was on commentator from Spain that said there is a very real chance they will lose their healthcare and pensions will be frozen while they work out the cost of living adjustment. I wasn’t 100% sure what that entailed exactly. And UK business people that were talking about their EU employees that might not be able to work for them any more. But its clear it is going to be very rough 2 years for some folks. Were British citizens living in another country allowed to vote? It seems ridiculous if they weren't allowed to vote over something that completly changes your life. | ||
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