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On June 25 2013 06:37 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:36 Raneth wrote:On June 25 2013 06:25 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:24 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great.
Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. I don't are what characters are on screen and only want good writing and TV. And if you are using the phrase as an insult, then call it and insult. Don't use some argument to justify why a straight person is privileged, because you end up roping in the people who totally support gays and insulting them too. In short, just call the guy a douche and move on. Or just call him a typical privileged straight asshole, so everyone knows you are insulting him and not all straight people. You're being insulted by a word that doesn't even apply to you. I...don't really know how to help you. Dude, it doesn't matter if you are privileged and aware of it, or privileged and ignorant, if you are an english speaking, white, male, heterosexual, you are privileged. You lead a privileged life, and being aware of it doesn't stop it being the case, the word -does- apply to him, and it -does- apply to me, and it -does- apply to a lot of other people who are on -your side- of the debate. Read what he is saying again. Not everyone lives in a majority white, english speaking country, you know.
/slow clap.... hence the fact that those are *drum roll* privileged :O :O and hence the meaning of the term we are discussing. Good job!
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United States41962 Posts
On June 25 2013 06:36 Signet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:27 Plansix wrote:
Then just insult them to their face and don't rope all straight people in with the insult. If I said "What a typical response from a gay," your would dig in your heels too, no matter how close to the truth I was. But I wouldn't say that. I would just call the person an ass-hat and move on. Good point. Even if an accusation of straight privilege is targeted at an obvious homophobe, it still has the effect of labeling all straight people as privileged. If "[xyz] privilege" doesn't mean it applies to all members of that group, then it's a meaningless concept or inaccurate term.
Privilege doesn't mean you're dumb or anything like that, it just means that you have a different life experience. It can be used incorrectly but the concept isn't worthless. I have never had to deal with the feelings of alienation that would result from growing up being attracted to the "wrong" gender, I was privileged enough not to have to deal with that. That doesn't mean anything bad about me, it's just that I won the birth lottery in that regard and ended up straight in a predominantly straight society.
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On June 25 2013 06:39 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:36 Raneth wrote:On June 25 2013 06:25 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:24 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great.
Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. I don't are what characters are on screen and only want good writing and TV. And if you are using the phrase as an insult, then call it and insult. Don't use some argument to justify why a straight person is privileged, because you end up roping in the people who totally support gays and insulting them too. In short, just call the guy a douche and move on. Or just call him a typical privileged straight asshole, so everyone knows you are insulting him and not all straight people. You're being insulted by a word that doesn't even apply to you. I...don't really know how to help you. Dude, it doesn't matter if you are privileged and aware of it, or privileged and ignorant, if you are an english speaking, white, male, heterosexual, you are privileged. You lead a privileged life, and being aware of it doesn't stop it being the case, the word -does- apply to him, and it -does- apply to me, and it -does- apply to a lot of other people who are on -your side- of the debate. Read what he is saying again. So then why is it an insult? Why are they taking offense to it?
Because if I used it in the phrase "privileged rich kids" its a pejorative. Just like I use the word "Hun" with a woman I am mad at, it is a pejorative. Context is king with these words.
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On June 25 2013 06:40 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:38 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:33 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:27 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:24 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:21 Myles wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them?
I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. He's right though. Despite any truth there is to the word, you only drive peoples' heels into the dirt when you use it. It doesn't make the point you're trying to make, and actually makes it's harder for people to listen what you have to say. You're making your battle a lot harder by using language like that. Yes, because being nice to assholes has won them over so nicely in the past. Look, it's a word that describes a very specific assertion. It's not something we throw around at every straight person. If we used any other word people who didn't want to change would still be insulted by it and still dig in their heels. Asking us to language hop is both a waste of time and not productive. The people to whom it applies already have their heels in the dirt. Then just insult them to their face and don't rope all straight people in with the insult. If I said "What a typical response from a gay," your would dig in your heels too, no matter how close to the truth I was. But I wouldn't say that. I would just call the person an ass-hat and move on. If a dog barked and you said "typical dog response" that wouldn't be wrong. Again, you're completely missing the part where I said "privileged" doesn't apply to everyone (I even said it didn't apply to you). Aren't you in the legal field? Did you really not understand my "if, then" statements? Yes, and I know when people won't make the distinction. Much like if I called a black person a "n###er" and then turned to my black friend and said "I wasn't talking about you.". I am 100% sure that would not go over well. Yeah, cause being black and holding a certain belief are totally comparable here. You are a smart one.
Being white straight male is a belief?
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This thread will bastardize the term "privilege" like the gaming community bastardized the notion of entitlement...
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On June 25 2013 06:39 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:36 Raneth wrote:On June 25 2013 06:25 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:24 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great.
Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. I don't are what characters are on screen and only want good writing and TV. And if you are using the phrase as an insult, then call it and insult. Don't use some argument to justify why a straight person is privileged, because you end up roping in the people who totally support gays and insulting them too. In short, just call the guy a douche and move on. Or just call him a typical privileged straight asshole, so everyone knows you are insulting him and not all straight people. You're being insulted by a word that doesn't even apply to you. I...don't really know how to help you. Dude, it doesn't matter if you are privileged and aware of it, or privileged and ignorant, if you are an english speaking, white, male, heterosexual, you are privileged. You lead a privileged life, and being aware of it doesn't stop it being the case, the word -does- apply to him, and it -does- apply to me, and it -does- apply to a lot of other people who are on -your side- of the debate. Read what he is saying again. So then why is it an insult? Why are they taking offense to it?
People don't like to be called "privileged" because how the term is used in society. A hell alot of people are fat, it not supposed to be an insult, but when you call someone fat it's taken as an insult. Even the term like "wall-street type" is taken as an insult.
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On June 25 2013 06:38 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:33 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:27 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:24 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:21 Myles wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. He's right though. Despite any truth there is to the word, you only drive peoples' heels into the dirt when you use it. It doesn't make the point you're trying to make, and actually makes it's harder for people to listen what you have to say. You're making your battle a lot harder by using language like that. Yes, because being nice to assholes has won them over so nicely in the past. Look, it's a word that describes a very specific assertion. It's not something we throw around at every straight person. If we used any other word people who didn't want to change would still be insulted by it and still dig in their heels. Asking us to language hop is both a waste of time and not productive. The people to whom it applies already have their heels in the dirt. Then just insult them to their face and don't rope all straight people in with the insult. If I said "What a typical response from a gay," your would dig in your heels too, no matter how close to the truth I was. But I wouldn't say that. I would just call the person an ass-hat and move on. If a dog barked and you said "typical dog response" that wouldn't be wrong. Again, you're completely missing the part where I said "privileged" doesn't apply to everyone (I even said it didn't apply to you). Aren't you in the legal field? Did you really not understand my "if, then" statements? Yes, and I know when people won't make the distinction. Much like if I called a black person a "n###er" and then turned to my black friend and said "I wasn't talking about you.". I am 100% sure that would not go over well.
Stop being so privileged, your hurting their mind. You're so white and straight that you simply can't see how ridiculously privileged you are. Therefore it's okay for them to mock you for being privileged.
Seriously though; Does no good mocking someone's argument by saying that's something a 'privileged person' would say.
On June 25 2013 06:41 Polis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:40 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:38 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:33 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:27 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:24 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:21 Myles wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem.
You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. He's right though. Despite any truth there is to the word, you only drive peoples' heels into the dirt when you use it. It doesn't make the point you're trying to make, and actually makes it's harder for people to listen what you have to say. You're making your battle a lot harder by using language like that. Yes, because being nice to assholes has won them over so nicely in the past. Look, it's a word that describes a very specific assertion. It's not something we throw around at every straight person. If we used any other word people who didn't want to change would still be insulted by it and still dig in their heels. Asking us to language hop is both a waste of time and not productive. The people to whom it applies already have their heels in the dirt. Then just insult them to their face and don't rope all straight people in with the insult. If I said "What a typical response from a gay," your would dig in your heels too, no matter how close to the truth I was. But I wouldn't say that. I would just call the person an ass-hat and move on. If a dog barked and you said "typical dog response" that wouldn't be wrong. Again, you're completely missing the part where I said "privileged" doesn't apply to everyone (I even said it didn't apply to you). Aren't you in the legal field? Did you really not understand my "if, then" statements? Yes, and I know when people won't make the distinction. Much like if I called a black person a "n###er" and then turned to my black friend and said "I wasn't talking about you.". I am 100% sure that would not go over well. Yeah, cause being black and holding a certain belief are totally comparable here. You are a smart one. Being white straight male is a belief?
You're too privileged to understand.
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On June 25 2013 06:39 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:36 Raneth wrote:On June 25 2013 06:25 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:24 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great.
Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. I don't are what characters are on screen and only want good writing and TV. And if you are using the phrase as an insult, then call it and insult. Don't use some argument to justify why a straight person is privileged, because you end up roping in the people who totally support gays and insulting them too. In short, just call the guy a douche and move on. Or just call him a typical privileged straight asshole, so everyone knows you are insulting him and not all straight people. You're being insulted by a word that doesn't even apply to you. I...don't really know how to help you. Dude, it doesn't matter if you are privileged and aware of it, or privileged and ignorant, if you are an english speaking, white, male, heterosexual, you are privileged. You lead a privileged life, and being aware of it doesn't stop it being the case, the word -does- apply to him, and it -does- apply to me, and it -does- apply to a lot of other people who are on -your side- of the debate. Read what he is saying again. So then why is it an insult? Why are they taking offense to it?
Some people don't take offence to it, some people don't understand the term properly so take offence to it (this is still highly relevant to any pragmatic based argument) and some people don't like having their view on a topic marginalised because they are privileged.
Also, many people dont like being told they are privileged as if they don't have their own issues and problems as if they could never understand how bad it was to not be them. The term has lots of connotations that people don't like.
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On June 25 2013 06:40 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:36 Signet wrote:On June 25 2013 06:27 Plansix wrote:
Then just insult them to their face and don't rope all straight people in with the insult. If I said "What a typical response from a gay," your would dig in your heels too, no matter how close to the truth I was. But I wouldn't say that. I would just call the person an ass-hat and move on. Good point. Even if an accusation of straight privilege is targeted at an obvious homophobe, it still has the effect of labeling all straight people as privileged. If "[xyz] privilege" doesn't mean it applies to all members of that group, then it's a meaningless concept or inaccurate term. Privilege doesn't mean you're dumb or anything like that, it just means that you have a different life experience. It can be used incorrectly but the concept isn't worthless. I have never had to deal with the feelings of alienation that would result from growing up being attracted to the "wrong" gender, I was privileged enough not to have to deal with that. That doesn't mean anything bad about me, it's just that I won the birth lottery in that regard and ended up straight in a predominantly straight society.
To be clear, I am not disagreeing with that part of the argument. I am just pointing out that calling someone "privileged" is generally considered a negative and people take offense. Calling a demographic "privileged" to insult someone is not the best way to go about it. And turning to another member of that demographic and say "Oh its ok, I didn't mean you," has a bunch of problems.
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On June 25 2013 06:41 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:39 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:36 Raneth wrote:On June 25 2013 06:25 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:24 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. I don't are what characters are on screen and only want good writing and TV. And if you are using the phrase as an insult, then call it and insult. Don't use some argument to justify why a straight person is privileged, because you end up roping in the people who totally support gays and insulting them too. In short, just call the guy a douche and move on. Or just call him a typical privileged straight asshole, so everyone knows you are insulting him and not all straight people. You're being insulted by a word that doesn't even apply to you. I...don't really know how to help you. Dude, it doesn't matter if you are privileged and aware of it, or privileged and ignorant, if you are an english speaking, white, male, heterosexual, you are privileged. You lead a privileged life, and being aware of it doesn't stop it being the case, the word -does- apply to him, and it -does- apply to me, and it -does- apply to a lot of other people who are on -your side- of the debate. Read what he is saying again. So then why is it an insult? Why are they taking offense to it? Because if I used it in the phrase "privileged rich kids" its a pejorative. Just like I use the word "Hun" with a woman I am mad at, it is a pejorative. Context is king with these words.
It's an incorrectly applied pejorative because the kids didn't choose to be rich. They had no say in that part of their life experience. But we'd say they'd have trouble empathizing with poor kids, and in that regard we mean they are privileged. If they are insulted by that then...they're idiots who don't understand what words mean.
And I do realize I've sorta split off into two lines of thought here. Yes, every straight white male is privileged. But I only ever bring it up as an issue or even really thing about it when they get offended by any representation other than heterosexuality.
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On June 25 2013 06:24 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:23 zdfgucker wrote:
Sigh.. I dislike the way TL is changing. This used to be a gaming site, can't we just keep it that way? I don't care about gay people, I hate everyone equally based on their character (a metric fuckton).
At this rate I will choose to remove the general forums from my sidebar. I come here for dota, not politics, sexuality nor any other non-issues. Comes here for dota, talks about how things used to be. Kid please.
You know nothing. I came here for a link for Testie vs Bisu in WCG (?). Stayed for BW streams and then SC2; the latter is a disgrace and now I watch and play dota2 and can occasionally check how fast SC2 is dying. I've been using TL for longer than most people.
Edit: 2007, ogn restream on SC2.org it was.
Kid please.
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I somewhere in this thread read that people wanted no political agendas on this gaming forum.
The fact that this is still called a political agenda says enough, imo. ):
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On June 25 2013 06:33 shinosai wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:28 wei2coolman wrote:On June 25 2013 06:22 shinosai wrote:On June 25 2013 06:20 wei2coolman wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great.
Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. I dunno about you, but American media has a lot of homosexual couples in it now... 4.4% is a lot? And that's only after tons of activism. Two years ago it was 2.9%. Dunno where that percentage comes from; but it's always in public eye imo. 2011-2012 http://www.glaad.org/publications/whereweareontv112.9% 2012-13 http://www.glaad.org/publications/whereweareontv124.4% Sorry, I probably should have sourced it in the first post. Still, that's not "a lot" of representation.
According to this wiki article around 5% of the US identified themselves as L/G/B. Other countries show, from a first glimpse, a similar mid single digit percentage. So from this I would say they are adequately represented.
Edit: the 5% number actually comes from the election exit poll. This means that there may be bias in it.
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On June 25 2013 06:40 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:36 Signet wrote:On June 25 2013 06:27 Plansix wrote:
Then just insult them to their face and don't rope all straight people in with the insult. If I said "What a typical response from a gay," your would dig in your heels too, no matter how close to the truth I was. But I wouldn't say that. I would just call the person an ass-hat and move on. Good point. Even if an accusation of straight privilege is targeted at an obvious homophobe, it still has the effect of labeling all straight people as privileged. If "[xyz] privilege" doesn't mean it applies to all members of that group, then it's a meaningless concept or inaccurate term. Privilege doesn't mean you're dumb or anything like that, it just means that you have a different life experience. It can be used incorrectly but the concept isn't worthless. I have never had to deal with the feelings of alienation that would result from growing up being attracted to the "wrong" gender, I was privileged enough not to have to deal with that. That doesn't mean anything bad about me, it's just that I won the birth lottery in that regard and ended up straight in a predominantly straight society.
A voice of reason? You are certainly in the wrong discussion... at least accuse other people of being stupid or something.
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On June 25 2013 06:44 zdfgucker wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:24 KwarK wrote:On June 25 2013 06:23 zdfgucker wrote:
Sigh.. I dislike the way TL is changing. This used to be a gaming site, can't we just keep it that way? I don't care about gay people, I hate everyone equally based on their character (a metric fuckton).
At this rate I will choose to remove the general forums from my sidebar. I come here for dota, not politics, sexuality nor any other non-issues. Comes here for dota, talks about how things used to be. Kid please. You know nothing. I came here for a link for Testie vs Bisu in WCG (?). Stayed for BW streams and then SC2; the latter is a disgrace and now I watch and play dota2 and can occasionally check how fast SC2 is dying. I've been using TL for longer than most people. Kid please.
All right, I wish you luck with calling out KwarK. Let us know how that works out.
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On June 25 2013 06:46 valium wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:40 KwarK wrote:On June 25 2013 06:36 Signet wrote:On June 25 2013 06:27 Plansix wrote:
Then just insult them to their face and don't rope all straight people in with the insult. If I said "What a typical response from a gay," your would dig in your heels too, no matter how close to the truth I was. But I wouldn't say that. I would just call the person an ass-hat and move on. Good point. Even if an accusation of straight privilege is targeted at an obvious homophobe, it still has the effect of labeling all straight people as privileged. If "[xyz] privilege" doesn't mean it applies to all members of that group, then it's a meaningless concept or inaccurate term. Privilege doesn't mean you're dumb or anything like that, it just means that you have a different life experience. It can be used incorrectly but the concept isn't worthless. I have never had to deal with the feelings of alienation that would result from growing up being attracted to the "wrong" gender, I was privileged enough not to have to deal with that. That doesn't mean anything bad about me, it's just that I won the birth lottery in that regard and ended up straight in a predominantly straight society. A voice of reason? You are certainly in the wrong discussion... at least accuse other people of being stupid or something. privileged
Fix that for you.
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On June 25 2013 06:39 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:36 Raneth wrote:On June 25 2013 06:25 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:24 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great.
Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. I don't are what characters are on screen and only want good writing and TV. And if you are using the phrase as an insult, then call it and insult. Don't use some argument to justify why a straight person is privileged, because you end up roping in the people who totally support gays and insulting them too. In short, just call the guy a douche and move on. Or just call him a typical privileged straight asshole, so everyone knows you are insulting him and not all straight people. You're being insulted by a word that doesn't even apply to you. I...don't really know how to help you. Dude, it doesn't matter if you are privileged and aware of it, or privileged and ignorant, if you are an english speaking, white, male, heterosexual, you are privileged. You lead a privileged life, and being aware of it doesn't stop it being the case, the word -does- apply to him, and it -does- apply to me, and it -does- apply to a lot of other people who are on -your side- of the debate. Read what he is saying again. So then why is it an insult? Why are they taking offense to it?
Privileged implies that due to factors I cannot control, I am ignorant. No one likes to be called ignorant. It is a term that divides, not unifies. It puts the person being called privileged on the defense, and turns a potentially constructive discussion into a zero sum argument.
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On June 25 2013 06:40 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:33 shinosai wrote:On June 25 2013 06:28 wei2coolman wrote:On June 25 2013 06:22 shinosai wrote:On June 25 2013 06:20 wei2coolman wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. I dunno about you, but American media has a lot of homosexual couples in it now... 4.4% is a lot? And that's only after tons of activism. Two years ago it was 2.9%. Dunno where that percentage comes from; but it's always in public eye imo. 2011-2012 http://www.glaad.org/publications/whereweareontv112.9% 2012-13 http://www.glaad.org/publications/whereweareontv124.4% Sorry, I probably should have sourced it in the first post. Still, that's not "a lot" of representation. I dunno if that's really an accurate representation though, at least in regards to media. It gives all show equal weight; when in reality certain shows pull in more audience members. Plus media isn't only just tv shows; movies, news, etc etc. Homosexuality is pretty much a constant trending topic.
don't homosexuals make up less than 2% of the population as is? so 4.4% is actually over representative of the actual population.
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On June 25 2013 06:47 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:46 valium wrote:On June 25 2013 06:40 KwarK wrote:On June 25 2013 06:36 Signet wrote:On June 25 2013 06:27 Plansix wrote:
Then just insult them to their face and don't rope all straight people in with the insult. If I said "What a typical response from a gay," your would dig in your heels too, no matter how close to the truth I was. But I wouldn't say that. I would just call the person an ass-hat and move on. Good point. Even if an accusation of straight privilege is targeted at an obvious homophobe, it still has the effect of labeling all straight people as privileged. If "[xyz] privilege" doesn't mean it applies to all members of that group, then it's a meaningless concept or inaccurate term. Privilege doesn't mean you're dumb or anything like that, it just means that you have a different life experience. It can be used incorrectly but the concept isn't worthless. I have never had to deal with the feelings of alienation that would result from growing up being attracted to the "wrong" gender, I was privileged enough not to have to deal with that. That doesn't mean anything bad about me, it's just that I won the birth lottery in that regard and ended up straight in a predominantly straight society. A voice of reason? You are certainly in the wrong discussion... at least accuse other people of being stupid or something. privileged Fix that for you.
No no no, internet arguments require attacks on a person's intelligence or mental stability, "privileged" is far too subdued.
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On June 25 2013 06:44 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:41 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:39 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:36 Raneth wrote:On June 25 2013 06:25 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:24 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them?
I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. I don't are what characters are on screen and only want good writing and TV. And if you are using the phrase as an insult, then call it and insult. Don't use some argument to justify why a straight person is privileged, because you end up roping in the people who totally support gays and insulting them too. In short, just call the guy a douche and move on. Or just call him a typical privileged straight asshole, so everyone knows you are insulting him and not all straight people. You're being insulted by a word that doesn't even apply to you. I...don't really know how to help you. Dude, it doesn't matter if you are privileged and aware of it, or privileged and ignorant, if you are an english speaking, white, male, heterosexual, you are privileged. You lead a privileged life, and being aware of it doesn't stop it being the case, the word -does- apply to him, and it -does- apply to me, and it -does- apply to a lot of other people who are on -your side- of the debate. Read what he is saying again. So then why is it an insult? Why are they taking offense to it? Because if I used it in the phrase "privileged rich kids" its a pejorative. Just like I use the word "Hun" with a woman I am mad at, it is a pejorative. Context is king with these words. It's an incorrectly applied pejorative because the kids didn't choose to be rich. They had no say in that part of their life experience. But we'd say they'd have trouble empathizing with poor kids, and in that regard we mean they are privileged. If they are insulted by that then...they're idiots who don't understand what words mean. And I do realize I've sorta split off into two lines of thought here. Yes, every straight white male is privileged. But I only ever bring it up as an issue or even really thing about it when they get offended by any representation other than heterosexuality.
Wait, I didn't choose to be white, how can you apply it to me?
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EPT
