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On June 25 2013 06:23 aseq wrote:
I don't mind gay e-sports people at all (or any gay people for that matter), but I still don't think we need this logo on the front page. We should treat them exactly as anyone else: equal. Not put a label on them and start waving the gay flag to show our support, I feel it's more degrading than anything else. Like saying: even though you're gay, we still like ya.
In a perfect world where LGBT people were treated equally, sure, we wouldn't need to do stuff like this. But unfortunately we live in the real world, so showing support is actually really important
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On June 25 2013 06:23 zdfgucker wrote:
\, I hate everyone equally based on their character (a metric fuckton).
Oh god the edges are cutting right into me.
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i like the new rainbow horse. it really reminds me of mlp :D
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On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:
Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?"
If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick.
If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you.
When you insult/attack someone, you lose the ability to change their mind. Explaining to someone that they lack another person's perspective, and getting them to understand the validity of that perspective and possibly change their own perspective/opinion as a result, is a good thing.
Tactically I suspect it doesn't matter however, in terms of winning the political battle.
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United States5162 Posts
On June 25 2013 06:24 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:21 Myles wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:44 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:41 Bagration wrote:
[quote]
How do I get rid of my privilege? Having all this privilege makes me feel unworthy. You don't need to get rid of your privilege. What a lot of people don't understand about privilege is that no one is expecting some monumental charity work from you. Simply understanding why gay people need gay pride and that they are marginalized is all we expect. A lot of stuff you do the world considers normal. We're not so lucky. A little sympathy is all we want. I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great. Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. He's right though. Despite any truth there is to the word, you only drive peoples' heels into the dirt when you use it. It doesn't make the point you're trying to make, and actually makes it's harder for people to listen what you have to say. You're making your battle a lot harder by using language like that. Yes, because being nice to assholes has won them over so nicely in the past. Look, it's a word that describes a very specific assertion. It's not something we throw around at every straight person. If we used any other word people who didn't want to change would still be insulted by it and still dig in their heels. Asking us to language hop is both a waste of time and not productive. The people to whom it applies already have their heels in the dirt.
This is a terrible attitude and one that will not win you supporters. You're not trying to win over the most hardcore of bigots, because you're right they've already made up their mind, but instead trying to win over the moderates who want equality but feel uncomfortable with homosexuality.
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On June 25 2013 06:24 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:21 Myles wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:44 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:41 Bagration wrote:
[quote]
How do I get rid of my privilege? Having all this privilege makes me feel unworthy. You don't need to get rid of your privilege. What a lot of people don't understand about privilege is that no one is expecting some monumental charity work from you. Simply understanding why gay people need gay pride and that they are marginalized is all we expect. A lot of stuff you do the world considers normal. We're not so lucky. A little sympathy is all we want. I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great. Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. He's right though. Despite any truth there is to the word, you only drive peoples' heels into the dirt when you use it. It doesn't make the point you're trying to make, and actually makes it's harder for people to listen what you have to say. You're making your battle a lot harder by using language like that. Yes, because being nice to assholes has won them over so nicely in the past. Look, it's a word that describes a very specific assertion. It's not something we throw around at every straight person. If we used any other word people who didn't want to change would still be insulted by it and still dig in their heels. Asking us to language hop is both a waste of time and not productive. The people to whom it applies already have their heels in the dirt.
Then just insult them to their face and don't rope all straight people in with the insult. If I said "What a typical response from a gay," your would dig in your heels too, no matter how close to the truth I was. But I wouldn't say that. I would just call the person an ass-hat and move on.
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On June 25 2013 06:22 shinosai wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:20 wei2coolman wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:44 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:41 Bagration wrote:
[quote]
How do I get rid of my privilege? Having all this privilege makes me feel unworthy. You don't need to get rid of your privilege. What a lot of people don't understand about privilege is that no one is expecting some monumental charity work from you. Simply understanding why gay people need gay pride and that they are marginalized is all we expect. A lot of stuff you do the world considers normal. We're not so lucky. A little sympathy is all we want. I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great. Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. I dunno about you, but American media has a lot of homosexual couples in it now... 4.4% is a lot? And that's only after tons of activism. Two years ago it was 2.9%.
Dunno where that percentage comes from; but it's always in public eye imo.
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Yeah using the word privilege is counter productive imo. For one it feels offensive to call somebody who had shitty life privileged just because he is white, and straight it generalizes too much.
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I support this fully, great initiative.
However... It would be even better if they added a stiff horn and make it a unicorn ;}
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On June 25 2013 06:28 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:22 shinosai wrote:On June 25 2013 06:20 wei2coolman wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:44 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
You don't need to get rid of your privilege. What a lot of people don't understand about privilege is that no one is expecting some monumental charity work from you. Simply understanding why gay people need gay pride and that they are marginalized is all we expect. A lot of stuff you do the world considers normal. We're not so lucky. A little sympathy is all we want. I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great. Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. I dunno about you, but American media has a lot of homosexual couples in it now... 4.4% is a lot? And that's only after tons of activism. Two years ago it was 2.9%. Dunno where that percentage comes from; but it's always in public eye imo.
2011-2012
http://www.glaad.org/publications/whereweareontv11
2.9%
2012-13
http://www.glaad.org/publications/whereweareontv12
4.4%
Sorry, I probably should have sourced it in the first post. Still, that's not "a lot" of representation.
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On June 25 2013 06:27 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:24 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:21 Myles wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:44 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
You don't need to get rid of your privilege. What a lot of people don't understand about privilege is that no one is expecting some monumental charity work from you. Simply understanding why gay people need gay pride and that they are marginalized is all we expect. A lot of stuff you do the world considers normal. We're not so lucky. A little sympathy is all we want. I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great. Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. He's right though. Despite any truth there is to the word, you only drive peoples' heels into the dirt when you use it. It doesn't make the point you're trying to make, and actually makes it's harder for people to listen what you have to say. You're making your battle a lot harder by using language like that. Yes, because being nice to assholes has won them over so nicely in the past. Look, it's a word that describes a very specific assertion. It's not something we throw around at every straight person. If we used any other word people who didn't want to change would still be insulted by it and still dig in their heels. Asking us to language hop is both a waste of time and not productive. The people to whom it applies already have their heels in the dirt. Then just insult them to their face and don't rope all straight people in with the insult. If I said "What a typical response from a gay," your would dig in your heels too, no matter how close to the truth I was. But I wouldn't say that. I would just call the person an ass-hat and move on.
If a dog barked and you said "typical dog response" that wouldn't be wrong. Again, you're completely missing the part where I said "privileged" doesn't apply to everyone (I even said it didn't apply to you). Aren't you in the legal field? Did you really not understand my "if, then" statements?
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On June 25 2013 06:25 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:24 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:44 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:41 Bagration wrote:
[quote]
How do I get rid of my privilege? Having all this privilege makes me feel unworthy. You don't need to get rid of your privilege. What a lot of people don't understand about privilege is that no one is expecting some monumental charity work from you. Simply understanding why gay people need gay pride and that they are marginalized is all we expect. A lot of stuff you do the world considers normal. We're not so lucky. A little sympathy is all we want. I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great. Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. I don't are what characters are on screen and only want good writing and TV. And if you are using the phrase as an insult, then call it and insult. Don't use some argument to justify why a straight person is privileged, because you end up roping in the people who totally support gays and insulting them too. In short, just call the guy a douche and move on. Or just call him a typical privileged straight asshole, so everyone knows you are insulting him and not all straight people. You're being insulted by a word that doesn't even apply to you. I...don't really know how to help you.
Dude, it doesn't matter if you are privileged and aware of it, or privileged and ignorant, if you are an english speaking, white, male, heterosexual, you are privileged. You lead a privileged life, and being aware of it doesn't stop it being the case, the word -does- apply to him, and it -does- apply to me, and it -does- apply to a lot of other people who are on -your side- of the debate. Read what he is saying again.
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On June 25 2013 06:27 Plansix wrote:
Then just insult them to their face and don't rope all straight people in with the insult. If I said "What a typical response from a gay," your would dig in your heels too, no matter how close to the truth I was. But I wouldn't say that. I would just call the person an ass-hat and move on.
Good point. Even if an accusation of straight privilege is targeted at an obvious homophobe, it still has the effect of labeling all straight people as privileged. If "[xyz] privilege" doesn't mean it applies to all members of that group, then it's a meaningless concept or inaccurate term.
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On June 25 2013 06:33 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:27 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:24 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:21 Myles wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great.
Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. He's right though. Despite any truth there is to the word, you only drive peoples' heels into the dirt when you use it. It doesn't make the point you're trying to make, and actually makes it's harder for people to listen what you have to say. You're making your battle a lot harder by using language like that. Yes, because being nice to assholes has won them over so nicely in the past. Look, it's a word that describes a very specific assertion. It's not something we throw around at every straight person. If we used any other word people who didn't want to change would still be insulted by it and still dig in their heels. Asking us to language hop is both a waste of time and not productive. The people to whom it applies already have their heels in the dirt. Then just insult them to their face and don't rope all straight people in with the insult. If I said "What a typical response from a gay," your would dig in your heels too, no matter how close to the truth I was. But I wouldn't say that. I would just call the person an ass-hat and move on. If a dog barked and you said "typical dog response" that wouldn't be wrong. Again, you're completely missing the part where I said "privileged" doesn't apply to everyone (I even said it didn't apply to you). Aren't you in the legal field? Did you really not understand my "if, then" statements?
That's because you don't seem to understand what the term "privileged" refers to.
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So sad to see that there are actually still people that don't support this. Luckily they'll be written down in history as bigots then forgotten. If you're not for human equality you really are just a sad sad human being.
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On June 25 2013 06:36 Raneth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:25 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:24 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:44 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
You don't need to get rid of your privilege. What a lot of people don't understand about privilege is that no one is expecting some monumental charity work from you. Simply understanding why gay people need gay pride and that they are marginalized is all we expect. A lot of stuff you do the world considers normal. We're not so lucky. A little sympathy is all we want. I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great. Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. I don't are what characters are on screen and only want good writing and TV. And if you are using the phrase as an insult, then call it and insult. Don't use some argument to justify why a straight person is privileged, because you end up roping in the people who totally support gays and insulting them too. In short, just call the guy a douche and move on. Or just call him a typical privileged straight asshole, so everyone knows you are insulting him and not all straight people. You're being insulted by a word that doesn't even apply to you. I...don't really know how to help you. Dude, it doesn't matter if you are privileged and aware of it, or privileged and ignorant, if you are an english speaking, white, male, heterosexual, you are privileged. You lead a privileged life, and being aware of it doesn't stop it being the case, the word -does- apply to him, and it -does- apply to me, and it -does- apply to a lot of other people who are on -your side- of the debate. Read what he is saying again.
Not everyone lives in a majority white, english speaking country, you know.
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On June 25 2013 06:33 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:27 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:24 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:21 Myles wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great.
Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. He's right though. Despite any truth there is to the word, you only drive peoples' heels into the dirt when you use it. It doesn't make the point you're trying to make, and actually makes it's harder for people to listen what you have to say. You're making your battle a lot harder by using language like that. Yes, because being nice to assholes has won them over so nicely in the past. Look, it's a word that describes a very specific assertion. It's not something we throw around at every straight person. If we used any other word people who didn't want to change would still be insulted by it and still dig in their heels. Asking us to language hop is both a waste of time and not productive. The people to whom it applies already have their heels in the dirt. Then just insult them to their face and don't rope all straight people in with the insult. If I said "What a typical response from a gay," your would dig in your heels too, no matter how close to the truth I was. But I wouldn't say that. I would just call the person an ass-hat and move on. If a dog barked and you said "typical dog response" that wouldn't be wrong. Again, you're completely missing the part where I said "privileged" doesn't apply to everyone (I even said it didn't apply to you). Aren't you in the legal field? Did you really not understand my "if, then" statements?
Yes, and I know when people won't make the distinction. Much like if I called a black person a "n###er" and then turned to my black friend and said "I wasn't talking about you.". I am 100% sure that would not go over well.
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On June 25 2013 06:36 Raneth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:25 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:24 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:44 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
You don't need to get rid of your privilege. What a lot of people don't understand about privilege is that no one is expecting some monumental charity work from you. Simply understanding why gay people need gay pride and that they are marginalized is all we expect. A lot of stuff you do the world considers normal. We're not so lucky. A little sympathy is all we want. I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great. Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. I don't are what characters are on screen and only want good writing and TV. And if you are using the phrase as an insult, then call it and insult. Don't use some argument to justify why a straight person is privileged, because you end up roping in the people who totally support gays and insulting them too. In short, just call the guy a douche and move on. Or just call him a typical privileged straight asshole, so everyone knows you are insulting him and not all straight people. You're being insulted by a word that doesn't even apply to you. I...don't really know how to help you. Dude, it doesn't matter if you are privileged and aware of it, or privileged and ignorant, if you are an english speaking, white, male, heterosexual, you are privileged. You lead a privileged life, and being aware of it doesn't stop it being the case, the word -does- apply to him, and it -does- apply to me, and it -does- apply to a lot of other people who are on -your side- of the debate. Read what he is saying again.
So then why is it an insult? Why are they taking offense to it?
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On June 25 2013 06:38 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:33 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:27 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:24 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:21 Myles wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. He's right though. Despite any truth there is to the word, you only drive peoples' heels into the dirt when you use it. It doesn't make the point you're trying to make, and actually makes it's harder for people to listen what you have to say. You're making your battle a lot harder by using language like that. Yes, because being nice to assholes has won them over so nicely in the past. Look, it's a word that describes a very specific assertion. It's not something we throw around at every straight person. If we used any other word people who didn't want to change would still be insulted by it and still dig in their heels. Asking us to language hop is both a waste of time and not productive. The people to whom it applies already have their heels in the dirt. Then just insult them to their face and don't rope all straight people in with the insult. If I said "What a typical response from a gay," your would dig in your heels too, no matter how close to the truth I was. But I wouldn't say that. I would just call the person an ass-hat and move on. If a dog barked and you said "typical dog response" that wouldn't be wrong. Again, you're completely missing the part where I said "privileged" doesn't apply to everyone (I even said it didn't apply to you). Aren't you in the legal field? Did you really not understand my "if, then" statements? Yes, and I know when people won't make the distinction. Much like if I called a black person a "n###er" and then turned to my black friend and said "I wasn't talking about you.". I am 100% sure that would not go over well.
Yeah, cause being black and holding a certain belief are totally comparable here. You are a smart one.
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On June 25 2013 06:33 shinosai wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:28 wei2coolman wrote:On June 25 2013 06:22 shinosai wrote:On June 25 2013 06:20 wei2coolman wrote:On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great.
Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. I dunno about you, but American media has a lot of homosexual couples in it now... 4.4% is a lot? And that's only after tons of activism. Two years ago it was 2.9%. Dunno where that percentage comes from; but it's always in public eye imo. 2011-2012 http://www.glaad.org/publications/whereweareontv112.9% 2012-13 http://www.glaad.org/publications/whereweareontv124.4% Sorry, I probably should have sourced it in the first post. Still, that's not "a lot" of representation.
I dunno if that's really an accurate representation though, at least in regards to media. It gives all show equal weight; when in reality certain shows pull in more audience members. Plus media isn't only just tv shows; movies, news, etc etc. Homosexuality is pretty much a constant trending topic.
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EPT
