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I suspected TLO was gay, but not Snute. Congrats to both! Now adopt a korean baby and train it to defeat Artosis' baby in a SC3 deathmatch.
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On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:44 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:41 Bagration wrote:On June 25 2013 05:36 Aberu wrote:On June 25 2013 05:33 wei2coolman wrote:On June 25 2013 05:29 Aberu wrote:On June 25 2013 05:26 wei2coolman wrote:
[quote]
It's a similar argument to what Morgan Freeman poses towards race. Also; no need to post like a prick just cuz someone has a different opinion than you. Oh so Morgan Freeman said it's okay, therefore it's okay guys. Just like Louis CK says it's okay to call people faggots in his standup routine, therefore it's now okay. I don't agree with Morgan Freeman. I don't care if you think he is the ultimate authority of race wisdom. I don't agree with him. I'm not posting like a prick. I'm pointing out this person's privilege. If you are straight, you have access to more benefits and privileges in life. This isn't just an opinion, it's a fact, go on read the article and see if those things aren't true. "spoken like a true privileged straight person" is a pretty dick thing to say. I've heard the same argument multiple times from homosexuals. They rather keep the whole "we're gay and proud, and we're gunna show it all up in your face" out of the equation. You sure like to make assumptions about people you have no idea where they're from. If you are straight, like myself, you are privileged. It's not actually an insult to be privileged. It's insulting to shove your privilege off on other people through ignorance, as many people are doing. You do not live a DAY in the shoes of a homosexual who has to deal with 1 or all of the things in the link above, and think about them often. How do I get rid of my privilege? Having all this privilege makes me feel unworthy. You don't need to get rid of your privilege. What a lot of people don't understand about privilege is that no one is expecting some monumental charity work from you. Simply understanding why gay people need gay pride and that they are marginalized is all we expect. A lot of stuff you do the world considers normal. We're not so lucky. A little sympathy is all we want. I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great. Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable.
How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova?
Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic.
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On June 25 2013 06:10 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:09 Zaqwe wrote:On June 25 2013 06:05 Raneth wrote:On June 25 2013 06:03 Zaqwe wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Shodaa wrote:On June 25 2013 05:58 Zaqwe wrote:On June 25 2013 05:53 Aberu wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Zaqwe wrote:On June 25 2013 05:43 Aberu wrote:On June 25 2013 05:39 Zaqwe wrote:
[quote]
He was patronizing a gay bar.
At any rate he certainly wasn't anti-gay and this was no hate crime.
I just found it interesting that the source the person linked didn't mention this. They way they paint the story it seems they were trying to portray it as a hate crime.
Even worse they criticize the media for not making a big deal of the fact the deceased were gay. In light of this not being a hate crime at all, it actually shows the media was being very tolerant and respectful of the victims. He was a trouble maker, and had been tossed out. He was an unwelcome patron, if he was any kind of patron. If someone goes in a gay bar, they are then confirmed as gay? Stop trying to twist this for your own purposes. And now you are acting as if you KNOW that this person did it. There was no conviction, only an arrest made, and a suspection of guilt based on hear say. The only people trying to twist it are the ones that are implying it was a hate crime. It's very obvious why that site that was first linked didn't mention motives or the suspect at all. It doesn't fit in with this narrative of oppression that the "biggest gay massacre" was committed by a gay-friendly (or possibly gay himself) patron whose motive was anger over being kicked out. I don't understand why you are getting so upset with my for pointing this out. Why do you think the person was gay-friendly? What evidence do you have of this? He was a gay bar patron. So what ? I'm atheist and went into a church once. So it was obviously not a hate crime. The first link deliberately tried to mislead the reader by not mentioning the suspect was a bar patron and his motive was not anti-gay hatred. And from where did you gleam this information that is not in the article? It's axiomatic. Which is of course why the first source didn't mention the suspect or his motives at all. If there were any wiggle room to twist this into an anti-gay hate crime (there isn't) they would have taken it. Instead they knew they had to mislead by omission. That is a lot of assuming you do there. But you do that a lot.
I'm not assuming anything. I am looking at the facts of the case and coming to the only obvious conclusion.
That originally linked article was trying to mislead people by not mentioning the suspect or his motives. Obviously they wanted people to assume it was a hate crime.
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On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:44 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:41 Bagration wrote:On June 25 2013 05:36 Aberu wrote:On June 25 2013 05:33 wei2coolman wrote:On June 25 2013 05:29 Aberu wrote:
[quote]
Oh so Morgan Freeman said it's okay, therefore it's okay guys. Just like Louis CK says it's okay to call people faggots in his standup routine, therefore it's now okay. I don't agree with Morgan Freeman. I don't care if you think he is the ultimate authority of race wisdom. I don't agree with him.
I'm not posting like a prick. I'm pointing out this person's privilege. If you are straight, you have access to more benefits and privileges in life. This isn't just an opinion, it's a fact, go on read the article and see if those things aren't true. "spoken like a true privileged straight person" is a pretty dick thing to say. I've heard the same argument multiple times from homosexuals. They rather keep the whole "we're gay and proud, and we're gunna show it all up in your face" out of the equation. You sure like to make assumptions about people you have no idea where they're from. If you are straight, like myself, you are privileged. It's not actually an insult to be privileged. It's insulting to shove your privilege off on other people through ignorance, as many people are doing. You do not live a DAY in the shoes of a homosexual who has to deal with 1 or all of the things in the link above, and think about them often. How do I get rid of my privilege? Having all this privilege makes me feel unworthy. You don't need to get rid of your privilege. What a lot of people don't understand about privilege is that no one is expecting some monumental charity work from you. Simply understanding why gay people need gay pride and that they are marginalized is all we expect. A lot of stuff you do the world considers normal. We're not so lucky. A little sympathy is all we want. I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great. Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic.
Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?"
If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick.
If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you.
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On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:44 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:41 Bagration wrote:On June 25 2013 05:36 Aberu wrote:On June 25 2013 05:33 wei2coolman wrote:
[quote]
"spoken like a true privileged straight person" is a pretty dick thing to say. I've heard the same argument multiple times from homosexuals. They rather keep the whole "we're gay and proud, and we're gunna show it all up in your face" out of the equation. You sure like to make assumptions about people you have no idea where they're from. If you are straight, like myself, you are privileged. It's not actually an insult to be privileged. It's insulting to shove your privilege off on other people through ignorance, as many people are doing. You do not live a DAY in the shoes of a homosexual who has to deal with 1 or all of the things in the link above, and think about them often. How do I get rid of my privilege? Having all this privilege makes me feel unworthy. You don't need to get rid of your privilege. What a lot of people don't understand about privilege is that no one is expecting some monumental charity work from you. Simply understanding why gay people need gay pride and that they are marginalized is all we expect. A lot of stuff you do the world considers normal. We're not so lucky. A little sympathy is all we want. I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great. Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you.
I dunno about you, but American media has a lot of homosexual couples in it now...
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On June 25 2013 06:17 Zaqwe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:10 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Zaqwe wrote:On June 25 2013 06:05 Raneth wrote:On June 25 2013 06:03 Zaqwe wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Shodaa wrote:On June 25 2013 05:58 Zaqwe wrote:On June 25 2013 05:53 Aberu wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Zaqwe wrote:On June 25 2013 05:43 Aberu wrote:
[quote]
He was a trouble maker, and had been tossed out. He was an unwelcome patron, if he was any kind of patron. If someone goes in a gay bar, they are then confirmed as gay? Stop trying to twist this for your own purposes.
And now you are acting as if you KNOW that this person did it. There was no conviction, only an arrest made, and a suspection of guilt based on hear say. The only people trying to twist it are the ones that are implying it was a hate crime. It's very obvious why that site that was first linked didn't mention motives or the suspect at all. It doesn't fit in with this narrative of oppression that the "biggest gay massacre" was committed by a gay-friendly (or possibly gay himself) patron whose motive was anger over being kicked out. I don't understand why you are getting so upset with my for pointing this out. Why do you think the person was gay-friendly? What evidence do you have of this? He was a gay bar patron. So what ? I'm atheist and went into a church once. So it was obviously not a hate crime. The first link deliberately tried to mislead the reader by not mentioning the suspect was a bar patron and his motive was not anti-gay hatred. And from where did you gleam this information that is not in the article? It's axiomatic. Which is of course why the first source didn't mention the suspect or his motives at all. If there were any wiggle room to twist this into an anti-gay hate crime (there isn't) they would have taken it. Instead they knew they had to mislead by omission. That is a lot of assuming you do there. But you do that a lot. I'm not assuming anything. I am looking at the facts of the case and coming to the only obvious conclusion. That originally linked article was trying to mislead people by not mentioning the suspect or his motives. Obviously they wanted people to assume it was a hate crime.
I got it! This guy is an undercover TL staff trying to get people to buy TL+!
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United States5162 Posts
On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:44 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:41 Bagration wrote:On June 25 2013 05:36 Aberu wrote:On June 25 2013 05:33 wei2coolman wrote:
[quote]
"spoken like a true privileged straight person" is a pretty dick thing to say. I've heard the same argument multiple times from homosexuals. They rather keep the whole "we're gay and proud, and we're gunna show it all up in your face" out of the equation. You sure like to make assumptions about people you have no idea where they're from. If you are straight, like myself, you are privileged. It's not actually an insult to be privileged. It's insulting to shove your privilege off on other people through ignorance, as many people are doing. You do not live a DAY in the shoes of a homosexual who has to deal with 1 or all of the things in the link above, and think about them often. How do I get rid of my privilege? Having all this privilege makes me feel unworthy. You don't need to get rid of your privilege. What a lot of people don't understand about privilege is that no one is expecting some monumental charity work from you. Simply understanding why gay people need gay pride and that they are marginalized is all we expect. A lot of stuff you do the world considers normal. We're not so lucky. A little sympathy is all we want. I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great. Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you.
He's right though. Despite any truth there is to the word, you only drive peoples' heels into the dirt when you use it. It doesn't make the point you're trying to make, and actually makes it's harder for people to listen what you have to say. You're making your battle a lot harder by using language like that.
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Can we please get back to the topic at hand?
When is TLO's and Snute's wedding?
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On June 25 2013 06:14 Aberu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:02 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:56 Aberu wrote:On June 25 2013 05:54 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:47 Aberu wrote:On June 25 2013 05:42 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:36 Aberu wrote:On June 25 2013 05:33 wei2coolman wrote:On June 25 2013 05:29 Aberu wrote:On June 25 2013 05:26 wei2coolman wrote:
[quote]
It's a similar argument to what Morgan Freeman poses towards race. Also; no need to post like a prick just cuz someone has a different opinion than you. Oh so Morgan Freeman said it's okay, therefore it's okay guys. Just like Louis CK says it's okay to call people faggots in his standup routine, therefore it's now okay. I don't agree with Morgan Freeman. I don't care if you think he is the ultimate authority of race wisdom. I don't agree with him. I'm not posting like a prick. I'm pointing out this person's privilege. If you are straight, you have access to more benefits and privileges in life. This isn't just an opinion, it's a fact, go on read the article and see if those things aren't true. "spoken like a true privileged straight person" is a pretty dick thing to say. I've heard the same argument multiple times from homosexuals. They rather keep the whole "we're gay and proud, and we're gunna show it all up in your face" out of the equation. You sure like to make assumptions about people you have no idea where they're from. If you are straight, like myself, you are privileged. It's not actually an insult to be privileged. It's insulting to shove your privilege off on other people through ignorance, as many people are doing. You do not live a DAY in the shoes of a homosexual who has to deal with 1 or all of the things in the link above, and think about them often. That is a shitty way to argue and people don't like being told that they are "privileged" just because they exist. My girlfriend's entire immediate family has died of cancer and heart failure. If you called her privileged to make some argument about race or sexuality, she might spit in your face or slap you. It is a terrible way to argue. People are not privileged because they exist and are a specific race, gender or sexuality. Those minorities are put at a disadvantage due to causes by society, which the person you are arguing with may have nothing to do with. The only thing you accomplish by saying that is pushing the person away from your argument and lumping them in with racist and homophobes. If your sister was trying to tell the LGBT community to stop "shoving it in my face" in reference to parades, and pride week? I would say that she was behaving ignorantly because of her privilege. If she slapped me in the face for saying that, okay I guess I get slapped in the face. Doesn't make what I say any less true. Sorry that cancer and heart failure runs in the family. I don't see what that has to do with people being born gay and then being discriminated against regularly by individuals, organizations, and the government in everyday life and law. Has your sister been told she can't go to the PTA meeting because people might be disturbed that she has heart failure and cancer in her family? Has your sister been told by the government she can't legally get married because she has heart failure and cancer in her family? Has your sister been worried about laid off, evicted, disowned, beaten, murdered, losing child custody, etc... because of her family history with heart failure and cancer? The example you bring up, is not equivalent. Its my girlfriend, not my sister. If my sister lost her entire immediate family, I would be dead. And the point is that calling someone "privileged" is a bad way to argue the point. People see being called "privileged" as insulting. It imparts the idea that they are no entitled to the place that they have in life. If you are trying to win people to helping and supporting you, don't open up by doing something they consider an insult. Yeah I edited the post I don't know why I kept writing sister lol. What word other than privilege accurately gets across the point that someone is privileged in society, and their opinion is based in ignorance since their view of the world is totally different, having been privileged. I am not saying the word is wrong. I am saying it sucks and will only make straight people defensive about the subject. Your argument is sound. The way you present your argument sucks and is slightly aggressive toward straight people. No straight, white male likes it when people assume he is homophobic, racist and abuses women. Just like gay people do not like it when people assume they are sexual deviants. Well that person would be slightly mentally unstable for taking what I said to mean that I am implying that they are "homophobic, racist and abuse women." Sorry that the word privilege to you is synonymous with "homophobic, racist and abuses women". I think that's absurd to equate the two.
I dont know if you've noticed, but Plansix is arguing on the same side as you, and is talking about pragmatism. They are saying that you will have more success in getting people to see your side if you consider using terminology that isn't going to put peoples backs up. I know, that it might be annoying having it suggested that you try not to offend someone who is offending you as we speak, but the point is, if you are serious about the growth of the movement, you need to take into account that you need to persuade bigots and people who just haven't put enough thought into the issue alike.
Plansix is simply saying that saying things like "we experience the world differently to you" might get you more supporters, again, it is just an argument about pragmatism, not whether you should -have- to stop saying it or not.
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On June 25 2013 06:20 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:44 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:41 Bagration wrote:On June 25 2013 05:36 Aberu wrote:
[quote]
If you are straight, like myself, you are privileged. It's not actually an insult to be privileged. It's insulting to shove your privilege off on other people through ignorance, as many people are doing. You do not live a DAY in the shoes of a homosexual who has to deal with 1 or all of the things in the link above, and think about them often. How do I get rid of my privilege? Having all this privilege makes me feel unworthy. You don't need to get rid of your privilege. What a lot of people don't understand about privilege is that no one is expecting some monumental charity work from you. Simply understanding why gay people need gay pride and that they are marginalized is all we expect. A lot of stuff you do the world considers normal. We're not so lucky. A little sympathy is all we want. I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great. Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. I dunno about you, but American media has a lot of homosexual couples in it now...
4.4% is a lot? And that's only after tons of activism. Two years ago it was 2.9%.
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Sigh.. I dislike the way TL is changing. This used to be a gaming site, can't we just keep it that way? I don't care about gay people, I hate everyone equally based on their character (a metric fuckton).
At this rate I will choose to remove the general forums from my sidebar. I come here for dota, not politics, sexuality nor any other non-issues.
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I don't mind gay e-sports people at all (or any gay people for that matter), but I still don't think we need this logo on the front page. We should treat them exactly as anyone else: equal. Not put a label on them and start waving the gay flag to show our support, I feel it's more degrading than anything else. Like saying: even though you're gay, we still like ya.
The gay friends I have share this viewpoint, they really dislike the gay culture and the way it tries to distantiate itself from 'normal' people. Ofc, in Amsterdam, this may be more extreme than in other places, but why is there a Gay and Lesbian bookstore in the city? Do they read their books from the back end, lol?
On the other side, there are many places where the general point of view isn't as tolerant as over here, in which case I don't mind showing a bit of support.
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On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:44 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:41 Bagration wrote:On June 25 2013 05:36 Aberu wrote:On June 25 2013 05:33 wei2coolman wrote:
[quote]
"spoken like a true privileged straight person" is a pretty dick thing to say. I've heard the same argument multiple times from homosexuals. They rather keep the whole "we're gay and proud, and we're gunna show it all up in your face" out of the equation. You sure like to make assumptions about people you have no idea where they're from. If you are straight, like myself, you are privileged. It's not actually an insult to be privileged. It's insulting to shove your privilege off on other people through ignorance, as many people are doing. You do not live a DAY in the shoes of a homosexual who has to deal with 1 or all of the things in the link above, and think about them often. How do I get rid of my privilege? Having all this privilege makes me feel unworthy. You don't need to get rid of your privilege. What a lot of people don't understand about privilege is that no one is expecting some monumental charity work from you. Simply understanding why gay people need gay pride and that they are marginalized is all we expect. A lot of stuff you do the world considers normal. We're not so lucky. A little sympathy is all we want. I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great. Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you.
I don't are what characters are on screen and only want good writing and TV. And if you are using the phrase as an insult, then call it and insult. Don't use some argument to justify why a straight person is privileged, because you end up roping in the people who totally support gays and insulting them too.
In short, just call the guy a douche and move on. Or just call him a typical privileged straight asshole, so everyone knows you are insulting him and not all straight people.
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On June 25 2013 06:21 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:44 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:41 Bagration wrote:On June 25 2013 05:36 Aberu wrote:
[quote]
If you are straight, like myself, you are privileged. It's not actually an insult to be privileged. It's insulting to shove your privilege off on other people through ignorance, as many people are doing. You do not live a DAY in the shoes of a homosexual who has to deal with 1 or all of the things in the link above, and think about them often. How do I get rid of my privilege? Having all this privilege makes me feel unworthy. You don't need to get rid of your privilege. What a lot of people don't understand about privilege is that no one is expecting some monumental charity work from you. Simply understanding why gay people need gay pride and that they are marginalized is all we expect. A lot of stuff you do the world considers normal. We're not so lucky. A little sympathy is all we want. I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great. Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. He's right though. Despite any truth there is to the word, you only drive peoples' heels into the dirt when you use it. It doesn't make the point you're trying to make, and actually makes it's harder for people to listen what you have to say. You're making your battle a lot harder by using language like that.
Yes, because being nice to assholes has won them over so nicely in the past. Look, it's a word that describes a very specific assertion. It's not something we throw around at every straight person. If we used any other word people who didn't want to change would still be insulted by it and still dig in their heels. Asking us to language hop is both a waste of time and not productive. The people to whom it applies already have their heels in the dirt.
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On June 25 2013 06:23 zdfgucker wrote:
Sigh.. I dislike the way TL is changing. This used to be a gaming site, can't we just keep it that way? I don't care about gay people, I hate everyone equally based on their character (a metric fuckton).
At this rate I will choose to remove the general forums from my sidebar. I come here for dota, not politics, sexuality nor any other non-issues.
Nobody is forcing you to read those threads (2-3 out of 10k ?) or care about it.
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United States43459 Posts
On June 25 2013 06:23 zdfgucker wrote:
Sigh.. I dislike the way TL is changing. This used to be a gaming site, can't we just keep it that way? I don't care about gay people, I hate everyone equally based on their character (a metric fuckton).
At this rate I will choose to remove the general forums from my sidebar. I come here for dota, not politics, sexuality nor any other non-issues.
Comes here for dota, talks about how things used to be.
Kid please.
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On June 25 2013 06:23 zdfgucker wrote:
Sigh.. I dislike the way TL is changing. This used to be a gaming site, can't we just keep it that way? I don't care about gay people, I hate everyone equally based on their character (a metric fuckton).
At this rate I will choose to remove the general forums from my sidebar. I come here for dota, not politics, sexuality nor any other non-issues.
Don't post or read the thread. Problem solved.
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On June 25 2013 06:24 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 06:19 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:49 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2013 05:44 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 05:41 Bagration wrote:On June 25 2013 05:36 Aberu wrote:
[quote]
If you are straight, like myself, you are privileged. It's not actually an insult to be privileged. It's insulting to shove your privilege off on other people through ignorance, as many people are doing. You do not live a DAY in the shoes of a homosexual who has to deal with 1 or all of the things in the link above, and think about them often. How do I get rid of my privilege? Having all this privilege makes me feel unworthy. You don't need to get rid of your privilege. What a lot of people don't understand about privilege is that no one is expecting some monumental charity work from you. Simply understanding why gay people need gay pride and that they are marginalized is all we expect. A lot of stuff you do the world considers normal. We're not so lucky. A little sympathy is all we want. I would argue that "privilege" is a terrible word. People do not like being called "privileged". A better way to put it is that gay people need to remind homophobic people that they are not leaving and gays won't put up with their bullshit. If you are straight and you ever see someone who is gay being marginalized, any help would be pretty great. Much like gays don't like being lumped into one group, all straight people don't like being lumped in with homophobic people. But privilege is exactly what it is. Your day to day activities regarding your sexual orientation aren't judged and aren't derided. And your sexual orientation is catered to almost exclusively in every medium. That's privilege. The world caters to you. Just because straight people don't like the word doesn't mean we're going to stop using it given that it's completely appropriate. If they don't like being called privileged imagine how gay people must feel to not even be privileged at all. Privilege imparts the idea that someone is not entitled to their place is life or what they have. It is insulting. We use it to refer to rich, care free people who have not experienced loss or other problems in life. If you want to win people to your side, why would you start by insulting them? I don't disagree that straight people have it easier because they are straight. But saying it is "privilege" is not the best way to convey that. It is better to say the world treat you differently because you are gay. It takes the burden off of the person you are speaking with and does not impart fault to them. Calling them privileged does the opposite and makes it seem like they are part of the problem. We're not using the words to describe allies. It's in response to people who say they don't like having "the gay" shoved in their faces. Those people aren't allies. Those are people who feel entitled to have only heterosexuality portrayed. And, with regards to their orientation, yeah they are carefree and and have never experienced a problem. You'll forgive us for not being too worried that the word "privileged" makes a coddled straight person feel uncomfortable. How about me, who is totally comfortable, but still hates the word with the fire of a nova? Calling someone a "privileged white person" has the same affect as me calling someone "A typical angry black man". No matter what grain of truth there is in the statement, it is still aggressive and insulting to everyone in that demographic. There is no way I hear that phrase and side with the person who said it. It is a shitty way to argue the point and only serves to alienate everyone in that demographic. Do you feel entitled to only have heterosexuals displayed in the media and do you feel that any representation of homosexuality is "shoving it in your face?" If yes, then you are privileged and idc if you're insulted cause you lack perspective and are kinda a dick. If no, then you are not privileged and you shouldn't be getting bent out of shape about that word because no one is using it to describe you. I don't are what characters are on screen and only want good writing and TV. And if you are using the phrase as an insult, then call it and insult. Don't use some argument to justify why a straight person is privileged, because you end up roping in the people who totally support gays and insulting them too. In short, just call the guy a douche and move on. Or just call him a typical privileged straight asshole, so everyone knows you are insulting him and not all straight people.
You're being insulted by a word that doesn't even apply to you. I...don't really know how to help you.
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EPT
