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On June 21 2013 13:14 Zaqwert wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 13:10 Takasu wrote:
Isn't obesity more of an addiction? I would consider it more similar to alcoholism or drug addiction than a disease. Its not like obesity can just start from nowhere unless you have a medical condition that leads to it. Some people are definitely addicted to food. However the fools at the AMA have also classified addictions as a disease. Which South Park lampooned beautifully. I'd love someone who is an alcoholic or an obese tub tell someone dying of brain cancer "Hey, I've got a disease too!"
I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "disease." It literally just means that there's something wrong with you. In fact, treating a lot of these self-imposed diseases as diseases means that it gets a lot easier to treat them by making the individual in question stop killing themselves.
If the person with brain cancer got it by knowingly sticking radioactive material onto their head, would you have much sympathy for them either?
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On June 21 2013 14:38 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
The problem with your argument is that most people in most countries in the world are not obese, so it certainly isn't genetics for almost all cases of obesity. The cause is laziness and not just poor diet, but extremely poor diet.
That is completely wrong. My mother was damn near a gourmet cook, and we ate a VERY healthy and varied diet growing up, yet my parents were slightly obese and mother had acquired diabetes. They could not have been more responsible.
The real cause has more to do with the low quality/nourishment of food in the US, and the makeup of processed ingredients and sugars it contains.
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Next up illiteracy is a disease. Then it will be laziness and not doing homework.
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On June 21 2013 10:27 Heavenlee wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 10:23 MichaelDonovan wrote:
Is a fever a disease now too? Is a sore throat a disease? I'm pretty sure obesity is a symptom of other problems in most cases just like fever and sore throat... Well I guess I can't be pretty sure about that any more since it's officially its own disease now. Hmm.. Just to be even more obnoxious and pedantic in this thread, a symptom is something only the patient can feel, like nausea and sore throat. A sign is something anyone can see or measure, like vomiting and fever. They beat that shit into our heads. the more you knoowwwwww
Oh are you a medical student or something? That's cool. I learned something today! Thanks, friend.
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On June 21 2013 08:11 Zaqwe wrote:
Good behavior needs incentives and bad behavior needs disincentives.
Bingo.
Our society has coddled people making bad decisions too much and now they are taking over
Double bingo.
It's beneficial to the political correctness industry, which now has a new victim group to profit from.
And that's gg.
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On June 21 2013 14:43 screamingpalm wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 14:38 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
The problem with your argument is that most people in most countries in the world are not obese, so it certainly isn't genetics for almost all cases of obesity. The cause is laziness and not just poor diet, but extremely poor diet.
That is completely wrong. My mother was damn near a gourmet cook, and we ate a VERY healthy and varied diet growing up, yet my parents were slightly obese and mother had acquired diabetes. They could not have been more responsible. The real cause has more to do with the low quality/nourishment of food in the US, and the makeup of processed ingredients and sugars it contains.
Like I said, almost all cases. Not all. Genetics doesn't even explain any notable fraction of the 80+ million obese people. I don't think the quality of processed ingredients here is of much worse quality than in most parts of the world. It's pretty bad overall almost anywhere.
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If it's considered a "disease," imagine what effect this will have on insurance companies and their policies. Is it "preventable?" Should it be insured by everyone, or just those highest at risk, or at all?
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On June 21 2013 15:14 cLAN.Anax wrote:
If it's considered a "disease," imagine what effect this will have on insurance companies and their policies. Is it "preventable?" Should it be insured by everyone, or just those highest at risk, or at all?
No change, really, except that anti-obesity programs would now perhaps be paid by insurance. Heart disease, joint problems, and so on are already handled by the system.
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On June 21 2013 15:01 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 14:43 screamingpalm wrote:On June 21 2013 14:38 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
The problem with your argument is that most people in most countries in the world are not obese, so it certainly isn't genetics for almost all cases of obesity. The cause is laziness and not just poor diet, but extremely poor diet.
That is completely wrong. My mother was damn near a gourmet cook, and we ate a VERY healthy and varied diet growing up, yet my parents were slightly obese and mother had acquired diabetes. They could not have been more responsible. The real cause has more to do with the low quality/nourishment of food in the US, and the makeup of processed ingredients and sugars it contains. Like I said, almost all cases. Not all. Genetics doesn't even explain any notable fraction of the 80+ million obese people. I don't think the quality of processed ingredients here is of much worse quality than in most parts of the world. It's pretty bad overall almost anywhere.
So first, we need to determine the nutritional benefits of corn.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/18783-nutritional-value-corn/
Corn is low in saturated fat and cholesterol, as well as sodium. It's also a good source of dietary fiber, thiamin and folate. However, 82 percent of the calories in this food are from carbohydrates. This high-carbohydrate content is why corn can be used to make corn syrup a low-priced sugar alternative.
Corn on the cob is probably not the best vegetable to eat because there are many more vegetables that are healthier, contain less sugar and have more nutritional content. Corn is also mildly inflammatory, meaning that it causes inflammation in the body. This is most likely due to the fact that corn can raise blood sugar very quickly.
This is important because as Michael Pollan points out: "More than a quarter of products in the average American supermarket now contain corn or its derivatives" (I believe this includes livestock as well- chicken is made up of quite a bit of corn for example). It is also important if you watched any of the videos posted in this thread which talk about the effects of sugars and carbohydrates on diet and obesity. And lastly, it is important because of the issue of "personal responsibility" being harped on by so many. There's your "responsible" alternative to fast food. Alternatives to corn as vegetables or other produce? Then there is the issue of monoculture.
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I'm not very informed on the subject,but currently obese people have to pay higher premiums right? Would making it a disease mean it won't be legal to charge the more?
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On June 21 2013 14:40 Acritter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 13:14 Zaqwert wrote:On June 21 2013 13:10 Takasu wrote:
Isn't obesity more of an addiction? I would consider it more similar to alcoholism or drug addiction than a disease. Its not like obesity can just start from nowhere unless you have a medical condition that leads to it. Some people are definitely addicted to food. However the fools at the AMA have also classified addictions as a disease. Which South Park lampooned beautifully. I'd love someone who is an alcoholic or an obese tub tell someone dying of brain cancer "Hey, I've got a disease too!" I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "disease." It literally just means that there's something wrong with you. In fact, treating a lot of these self-imposed diseases as diseases means that it gets a lot easier to treat them by making the individual in question stop killing themselves.If the person with brain cancer got it by knowingly sticking radioactive material onto their head, would you have much sympathy for them either?
I tried to point out the bolded very early on in this thread which sadly went ignored. This is however the primary reason for labeling obesity as a disease.
EDIT: Also, a disease does not by definition have to be non-self inflicted.
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On June 21 2013 14:43 screamingpalm wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 14:38 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
The problem with your argument is that most people in most countries in the world are not obese, so it certainly isn't genetics for almost all cases of obesity. The cause is laziness and not just poor diet, but extremely poor diet.
That is completely wrong. My mother was damn near a gourmet cook, and we ate a VERY healthy and varied diet growing up, yet my parents were slightly obese and mother had acquired diabetes. They could not have been more responsible. The real cause has more to do with the low quality/nourishment of food in the US, and the makeup of processed ingredients and sugars it contains.
Is it possible that what you think was "VERY" healthy, really wasn't? Can you list some example meals and the method of preparation? No judgement or implication, I'm just interested in the anecdote.
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I think its sort of harsh that since people think that obesity is a somewhat self inflicted ailment that it oughtn't qualify as a disease.
To use a non-obesity example. I have acute achilles tendinitis, which was brought about by a combination of naturally weak tendons and bad exercise practices (went from 0 to full steam too fast). I could have completely avoided the situation that I'm in through things like better stretching and easing into the exercise that I was doing (or completely eliminating high impact exercise), genetics aside. However, because of the natural weakness of my tendons I ended up hurting myself through activity that might not have been so damaging for most people. Does it still qualify as a disease?
I'm not a health professional, and I don't know enough about it to comment much on the causes of obesity, but I feel like a lot of evidence/articles point to the fact that it is likely that there is SOME genetic predisposition towards these things. I guess my argument is, even if eating less and exercise could prevent 100% of obesity cases, I don't think it changes whether it should be counted as a disease.
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On June 21 2013 15:48 Mstring wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 14:43 screamingpalm wrote:On June 21 2013 14:38 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
The problem with your argument is that most people in most countries in the world are not obese, so it certainly isn't genetics for almost all cases of obesity. The cause is laziness and not just poor diet, but extremely poor diet.
That is completely wrong. My mother was damn near a gourmet cook, and we ate a VERY healthy and varied diet growing up, yet my parents were slightly obese and mother had acquired diabetes. They could not have been more responsible. The real cause has more to do with the low quality/nourishment of food in the US, and the makeup of processed ingredients and sugars it contains. Is it possible that what you think was "VERY" healthy, really wasn't? Can you list some example meals and the method of preparation? No judgement or implication, I'm just interested in the anecdote.
I can try hehe. I consider myself extremely lucky in this regard. She would cook just about everything one could imagine (and in America way more actually). Must have been the fact she was English... Anyway to answer you, typically: meat, vegetable, starch and a bowl of salad. She would often get pretty exotic, beef tongue stew, goose for Xmas dinner (exotic in the US at least), Thanksgiving dinners that would take her a week or so to prepare, homemade spaghetti sauce or Birthday cakes, many things from libraries of cookbooks that I don't even remember today. How many American kids can say they had homemade paella? I was forced to eat liver and broccoli and Brussels sprouts and lima beans. I don't think there was anything that I haven't at least tried. :D
On top of all of this, I was an extremely skinny kid. So much so that my parents took me to the doctor to get checked out because my collar bone stuck out so strikingly and disturbing. Yet they had health issues people seem to relate to fast food junkies.  I remember they were always conscious about it and paid attention to whatever the new diet fads were (and tried most of them). This nonsense about responsibility is completely dense imo.
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That does not sound healthy.. Just good :D.
Which is fine as long as you don't overdo it.
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Why is there so few obese sc2 programmers ?
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On June 21 2013 16:10 eronica wrote:
Why is there so few obese sc2 programmers ?
A lot of them recognize that their job involves a lot of inactivity, so they generally budget some time for work out programs etc. Or at least that's what I've heard.
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On June 21 2013 16:10 eronica wrote:
Why is there so few obese sc2 programmers ?
Professionals are paid to look good in public.
Same reason they wear makeup.
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On June 21 2013 16:09 Velr wrote:
That does not sound healthy.. Just good :D.
Which is fine as long as you don't overdo it.
Well, when I say healthy, I am going with the fact of the diet being so varied which I had always heard was really good for you. Keep in mind my parents weren't the ones indulging in the homemade Birthday cake for example. :D
But the anecdote I usually talk about which really opened my eyes was travelling back and forth between the States and Italy. I was never obese, but from one meal a day in the US to three in Italy- where pasta was just the first course for dinner usually- I actually lost weight. This wasn't just a one-off either, this happened a half dozen or so times going back and forth like this. I'm finally feeling like I am putting some pieces of my anecdotal puzzles together.
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It's hard to tell if this is a good choice or not.
On the one hand, obesity is a serious problem in our country and is the cause for an alarming number of health problems. There needs to be serious research done into not only preventing obesity but figuring out why it is so rampant to begin with.
On the other hand, a disease is generally perceived as being something that is out of the victim's control. It makes for an interesting semantic argument when we look at something like liver cancer, which is defined as a disease but is caused almost exclusively (to my knowledge, definitely not a doctor here) by a person's abuse of alcohol. Yet it is undeniable that liver cancer is a disease that we have to treat very seriously.
Likewise, obesity is caused almost exclusively by a person's life style choices. There are definitely people who can't control it, but those people are a serious minority. Labeling obesity as something that cannot be controlled by the victim could do more harm than good, as people who are already making excuses for their poor life style choices and health will now have a valid medical scapegoat.
Regardless, I think it's important that physicians do away with BMI as a measure of obesity. It's absolutely ludicrous. My girlfriend is 5'2'' and curvy, but not obese in any sense of the word. Yet she went and had a free biometrics test done and was labeled obese due to her BMI, which is absurd (not to mention incredibly damaging for a woman's self-esteem). So technically, according to this new ruling, she has a disease because her BMI is over 30, despite a higher BMI being an uncontrollable product of her physical makeup.
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EPT
