On June 21 2013 03:50 Attica wrote: Are people going to be getting disability now because they are fat and lazy.
oh yeah ofc you are lazy if you are fat. what a stupid comment
If you were fat and not lazy, you wouldn't need to collect disability.
Still dumb. Being fat does not hinder you to do the same work as your normal weighing colleagues or do your studies with the same effort and sucess. If you really think this, you are either a douche or a fascist who thinks that only a healthy body can be useful and all that weird shit.
Well except for physical exhausting work (which is done by only a small percentage of the workforce in modern industrialized countries.).
There are already people with severe obesity who do not work and collect disability as a result, taking no action to change their situation.
But thats something very different. If you are sooo fat (which is far beyond simple obesity) that you cant work at all, than it is too late.
Then what are you actually trying to argue?
People who are fat and too lazy to prevent or change their situation can (and do) collect disability. This is what the first poster you quoted stated would happen (it already does), and you took insult to.
Those who are fat and still work obviously will not.
its incredible how everyone in this thread suddenly became an expert on obesity, what causes it and people who do suffer from it! Hey why dont you guys phone up AMA, tell them about your knowledge and insta replace their experts? Just be careful about mentioning your sources (internet/ your ass) cuz it might not seem very legit in their eyes even though all of you are obviously 100% right about what youre saying!
How is something self-inflicted a disease? Are gambling addiction and alcoholism also considered diseases in US? Well. I don't agree with this definition.
On June 21 2013 18:05 NEEDZMOAR wrote: its incredible how everyone in this thread suddenly became an expert on obesity, what causes it and people who do suffer from it! Hey why dont you guys phone up AMA, tell them about your knowledge and insta replace their experts? Just be careful about mentioning your sources (internet/ your ass) cuz it might not seem very legit in their eyes even though all of you are obviously 100% right about what youre saying!
Not that I'm a proponent of the TL WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE or anything but to just accept what experts say because they are defined as experts (We don't really know WHY this is in most cases) seems a bit uh...stupid...
I'm sure there has been plenty of times where you've watched TV and an expert has said something that you think is bullshit. In many cases the subject at hand isn't even fully defined yet so opinions are still very much divided. There may actually be several people here who has studied this extensively.
On June 21 2013 18:15 Xayoz wrote: How is something self-inflicted a disease? Are gambling addiction and alcoholism also considered diseases in US? Well. I don't agree with this definition.
Alcoholism actually is considered a disease. You must understand that a disease is actually a very open ended definition. In the grand terms it's simply an abnormal condition that affects an organism. A disease does not need to be out of one's control to be qualified as a disease.
Obesity is not acceptable but I believe people could use a bit more empathy when considering this subject. I was extremely fat years ago and now I'm going through a diet and getting really fit. What the guys complaining about fat people need to understand is that food and sugar cause a physical addiction, much like any hard drug. It's scientifically proven and it's a fact. Fat people need to overcome a strong addiction and while doing that force themselves to do a lot of running and gym which is harder to do than for other people because their body struggles walking or doing stairs alone.
On June 21 2013 03:57 codonbyte wrote: To be honest I don't see this having any real effect on how much treatment patients get for obesity. Doctors already know that being obese is unhealthy, and I'm pretty sure most people who are fat already know it's unhealthy but are unable to lose weight for one reason or another (self-discipline, succumbing to temptation, slower metabolism, etc.). I don't see how classifying obesity as a disease is going to deal with any of those issues.
On June 21 2013 03:45 Lycaeus wrote: "It's not my fault I'm fat, I have a DISEASE"
Yes, I know we all love to call out fat people for their often-times poor eating habits and lack of self-discipline. However, I don't think that's really all that fair.
Sure, having a lack of self discipline may be what ultimately causes obesity many times, however genetics determines how much any individual person is punished for a lack of self-discipline.
I'll use myself as an example. I was blessed with a ridonkulously fast metabolism. I have never had to worry about my weight, no matter how poor my eating habits. I'll often eat an entire box of oreos or 2 (big) bags of jelly beans after a long day of work. Last night I ate an entire gallon of ice cream.
Yet I am never punished for these poor eating habits in the slightest, simply because of my genes, while some other person with poor eating habits may be getting obese, even if their eating habits are better than mine (not great, but still better than mine).
I suspect that a lot of skinny people are thin for the same reason that I am: genetics. And therefore it's never quite sat right with me to go around labeling fat people as being lazy and having no self-control.
Edit: With that rant out of the way I would like to say that I think this decision is ridiculous because it's confusing the causes with their symptoms (i.e. a obesity is a symptom of something, either poor lifestyle or a medical condition, etc.). I made another post in this thread that goes into that more.
See, I disagree. I used to be like you when I was younger. I've never had to exhibit self-control or practice moderation while eating and never learned how to. When I hit the age of 22 or so my metabolism started slowing down and my poor eating/health habits started catching up with me. Gas station food for lunch every day, a doughnut for breakfast every morning, a pack of cigarettes a day, pizza on Fridays and binge drinking on the weekends. This went on for a LONG time and I went from weighing 145-150lbs from 10th grade all the way til 21 to now weighing 200-220lbs. Then one day I decided to lose the weight because I thought I looked disgusting. I quit smoking and drinking and started eating healthy while also working out. It's now two years later and I weigh 160-165lbs and am in the best shape of my life.
One could argue that it would be much harder for me, someone who had spent a lifetime of suffering no consequences from his eating habits, to begin practicing moderation. As opposed to someone who has been (allegedly) attempting to practice moderation for a while. Their problem is that they are COMFORTABLE, they have nothing driving them to put down that doughnut and now they even have an EXCUSE not to. It's pathetic if you ask me.
Oh nooooes!! I'm 21 right now!! Don't tell me that my life of eating whatever the hell I want and never having any consequences for my actions is about to end!! D:
I turn 22 in september. I MUST make the most of these last few months of unlimited consumption of crappy food and candy and ice cream!!! *runs off to buy a couple gallons of ice cream and a few kilograms of jelly beans*
25 here, I can still eat whatever and stay very slim. Right now I can't exercice, I'm eating a lot (healthy, mind you, but still lots of meat/eggs/nuts, and it's a recent habit, like only 2 weeks), I drink one or 2 beer a day, and I'm actually losing weight. 110 lbs right now for an average height. And it's annoying to be honest.
ok just wondering, where do you live and what do you consider average height? For most of the western world I think its around like 5'9" to 5'10" (175 -178 cm) at which 110 lbs (50 kg) sounds near anorexic. I am 6'1 (185cm) and roll in right around 200 (90 kg). I don't consider myself skinny but I run 5k a few times a week and used to do a lot of weight training from 16-24 (haven't had any equipment since moving) so more or less while I am not rocking a sixpack I do consider myself pretty healthy. I can't imagine losing 3 or 4 inches and almost cutting my weight in half. Jesus dude.
On June 21 2013 18:05 NEEDZMOAR wrote: its incredible how everyone in this thread suddenly became an expert on obesity, what causes it and people who do suffer from it! Hey why dont you guys phone up AMA, tell them about your knowledge and insta replace their experts? Just be careful about mentioning your sources (internet/ your ass) cuz it might not seem very legit in their eyes even though all of you are obviously 100% right about what youre saying!
Not that I'm a proponent of the TL WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE or anything but to just accept what experts say because they are defined as experts (We don't really know WHY this is in most cases) seems a bit uh...stupid...
I'm sure there has been plenty of times where you've watched TV and an expert has said something that you think is bullshit. In many cases the subject at hand isn't even fully defined yet so opinions are still very much divided. There may actually be several people here who has studied this extensively.
On June 21 2013 18:15 Xayoz wrote: How is something self-inflicted a disease? Are gambling addiction and alcoholism also considered diseases in US? Well. I don't agree with this definition.
Alcoholism actually is considered a disease. You must understand that a disease is actually a very open ended definition. In the grand terms it's simply an abnormal condition that affects an organism. A disease does not need to be out of one's control to be qualified as a disease.
of course, just accepting whatever someones telling you, especially without providing sources (regardless of what they claim to be) is basically what my post is about!
On June 21 2013 03:57 AnomalySC2 wrote: I suspect that a lot of skinny people are thin for the same reason that I am: genetics. And therefore it's never quite sat right with me to go around labeling fat people as being lazy and having no self-control.
You're a very, very, very unique case.
Well, I guess that makes me unique too
I can eat whatever I want, whenever I want, and I've had a BMI of 19 for the last ~20 years. I'm fairly certain that I'd be pretty fat if it weren't for my genetics I'm not saying that fat people don't have a choice, it's just that their genetics play a part in how fast their obesity problem spirals out of control.
American food is in general awful for the body and completely unnatural with big companies controlling everything and adding the chemicals they want in the food. Because they are so big and have so much power, they aren't controlled, make false publicity on the healthiness of the food and add to the society of mass consumption that is the US.
This society of consumption, the add of chemicals and sugar/salt in mass quantity plus the false publicity resulted in the obesity in the US or at least part of it there may be over factors but I think they are the main ones.
Ofc it's good to treat it as a disease because it leads to death but the thing to change would be the system. Government ask consumers not to buy but the global system want them to. It's like telling us not to consume electricity to preserve the planet, to use bicycle instead of cars but hell big companies destroys the earth and it's them who sells everything.
The system should change, American society in general should change.
Edit : Also in a few cases being a little fat has to do with genetics but not being obese, I mean not at all. Obese people have mostly eaten shit all the time. For the skinny people, it has a lot more to do with genetics, people that are so skinny they have health problems most of the time have bad habits too. For sure if you are basically skinny you can get a little fat but you have to put a ton of efforts. I weight 62 kg for 1m74. Before I was at like 55kg but god it was hard. I had to eat snacks and meat all day long to take a kg and then run, lift, push/pull up all weak. It was so fucking annoying.
On June 21 2013 03:57 AnomalySC2 wrote: I suspect that a lot of skinny people are thin for the same reason that I am: genetics. And therefore it's never quite sat right with me to go around labeling fat people as being lazy and having no self-control.
You're a very, very, very unique case.
Well, I guess that makes me unique too
I can eat whatever I want, whenever I want, and I've had a BMI of 19 for the last ~20 years. I'm fairly certain that I'd be pretty fat if it weren't for my genetics I'm not saying that fat people don't have a choice, it's just that their genetics play a part in how fast their obesity problem spirals out of control.
So you're maintaining calorie balance right now. If you added 2000 calories onto your current diet you would gain weight. The biggest misconception is the way people judge how much they eat and extrapolate that into meaning they can eat whatever they want. People have different standards and some people who might get full after a salad with extra dressing and feel 'stuffed' if they eat a bar of candy differ quite a lot from people who can eat a whole pizza and still feel like they need an extra snack.
There's also the situation which is common amongst skinny nerds where they devour some calorie dense thing like a bag of chips and a pizza, and then they can zone out and work on their computer or play games for almost the whole day without eating, but of course they won't think of this and still feel like they stuffed their face this particular day. Meanwhile some other person might've had the same meal but in the time that other person was zoned out on the computer he was snacking constantly, possibly adding up to 1500 calories in that time span.
My point is that outside a controlled setting where you measure the exact calories you take in the human perception can skew the situation far into either direction and bypassing several rigorous studies about calorie intake and human metabolism in favor of some 'bro science' is quite lacking.
On June 21 2013 18:05 NEEDZMOAR wrote: its incredible how everyone in this thread suddenly became an expert on obesity, what causes it and people who do suffer from it! Hey why dont you guys phone up AMA, tell them about your knowledge and insta replace their experts? Just be careful about mentioning your sources (internet/ your ass) cuz it might not seem very legit in their eyes even though all of you are obviously 100% right about what youre saying!
I like how you say people "suffer" from obesity like its a disease. Hey folks look at that guy, he suffers from that new being fat disease, poor him :/
Its more that people suffer from severe laziness and/or lack of character and thats why they're obese (excluding ones that genuinly have hormonal or whatever health issues that causes them to be obese).
On June 21 2013 18:05 NEEDZMOAR wrote: its incredible how everyone in this thread suddenly became an expert on obesity, what causes it and people who do suffer from it! Hey why dont you guys phone up AMA, tell them about your knowledge and insta replace their experts? Just be careful about mentioning your sources (internet/ your ass) cuz it might not seem very legit in their eyes even though all of you are obviously 100% right about what youre saying!
I like how you say people "suffer" from obesity like its a disease. Hey folks look at that guy, he suffers from that new being fat disease, poor him :/
Its more that people suffer from severe laziness and/or lack of character and thats why they're obese (excluding ones that genuinly have hormonal or whatever health issues that causes them to be obese).
I can bet you million bucks that obesity have more to to with anxiety than it has with laziness. Calling fat people lazy are just a way for people to feel superior over others.
On June 21 2013 18:05 NEEDZMOAR wrote: its incredible how everyone in this thread suddenly became an expert on obesity, what causes it and people who do suffer from it! Hey why dont you guys phone up AMA, tell them about your knowledge and insta replace their experts? Just be careful about mentioning your sources (internet/ your ass) cuz it might not seem very legit in their eyes even though all of you are obviously 100% right about what youre saying!
I like how you say people "suffer" from obesity like its a disease. Hey folks look at that guy, he suffers from that new being fat disease, poor him :/
Its more that people suffer from severe laziness and/or lack of character and thats why they're obese (excluding ones that genuinly have hormonal or whatever health issues that causes them to be obese).
I can bet you million bucks that obesity have more to to with anxiety than it has with laziness. Calling fat people lazy are just a way for people to feel superior over others.
Anxiety or not you cant be obese without eating a lot. I agree anxiety most probably has a lot to do with acummulating fat (from my own experince during college) but not that much to make you weight a metric ton. Sure you can be a bit bigger or just fat because of anxiety but not as fat where its a health problem.
Eating unhealthy is the biggest culprit. Processed foods with additives, food with so much salt and/or sugar that it lasts 5 years on the shelf. Portions are another issue but they are a result of how poorly nutritive these products are, not to mention the blood sugar rollercoaster that ensues. You dont feel "full" as fast, and you're hungry again within a short period.
Seems dubious that genetic variations could account for such disparity, everyone stems from the same few prehistoric tribes, and the various populations are like 99.99% alike in terms of DNA. The things that vary are cultural. Populations with the greatest longevity share similarities (good nutrition, healthy social interactions with peers, low stress, relatively active life (does'nt imply gym memberships, only implies that they dont spend 18 hours a day sitting at a desk or watching tv).
-Get rid of terrible food altogether, if you want an occasionnal treat find an alternative that is made from organic products and not full of additives. Eat ice cream or chocolate from an artisan shop, not out of the grocery. -Get moving, walking 1 hour+/day is all the exercise you need out of your day, provided you eat normal -Lower your stress level, by identifying the causes and eliminating or alievating them. Again, exercise and diet helps a lot to maintain proper equilibrium. High expectations from society and peers are seldom positive.
Fat and slim people alike are victim to these problems, and they both exert a pretty heavy toll on health care costs. Fat people, and I guess smokers as well, are just easier to stygmatise because their problem is apparent.
I think that they are doing this not because they care whether or not obesity is considered a disease, but in order to use the government's money in order to create more resources to help people become more healthy. Not that I think it will work, but I feel they will try to use treatments through wellness psychology. Overall though, imo, people hate being told what to eat so not much will change.
On June 21 2013 18:05 NEEDZMOAR wrote: its incredible how everyone in this thread suddenly became an expert on obesity, what causes it and people who do suffer from it! Hey why dont you guys phone up AMA, tell them about your knowledge and insta replace their experts? Just be careful about mentioning your sources (internet/ your ass) cuz it might not seem very legit in their eyes even though all of you are obviously 100% right about what youre saying!
I like how you say people "suffer" from obesity like its a disease. Hey folks look at that guy, he suffers from that new being fat disease, poor him :/
Its more that people suffer from severe laziness and/or lack of character and thats why they're obese (excluding ones that genuinly have hormonal or whatever health issues that causes them to be obese).
gehehehe your reply is quite amusing considering its exactly what my post is about x)
On June 21 2013 07:39 On_Slaught wrote: Gary Taubes gives a VERY strong argument for why the calories equation has literally nothing to do with weight gain. He says that relying on the law of thermodynamics (which is what people are doing when they argue this) is making an 8th grade level math mistake. This law has no more impact on weight gain than the law of relativity does.
Rather his argument, for those who don't have the patience to watch the whole video, is that the common view is backwards (he goes into the history of how this was lost). Fat people don't get fatter because they eat more, they eat more because they are fat. Basic biology tells us that it has everything to do with how our hormones are influenced by our food (he goes into a lot of detail about how big genetics is to weight gain. Anybody who says it is a minor issue is completely un-grounded). The ultimate conclusion is that the specific substance which causes ALL fat creation in cells is insulin. Insulin is caused by carbohydrate intake. Therefore carbohydrate intake directly leads to fat increases. He argues that you can literally eat as much non-carbohydrated food as you want and you couldn't gain weight gain weight.
However this does not free people from personal responsibility. It happens to be that many of the best tasting food happens to create insulin so personal discipline is still a huge factor.
It's nice to actually listen to somebody who at least gives sound scientific basis for his arguments rather than the pure shit being dredged up in this thread. And even for the people not spouting pure shit, there is no basis other than the ubiquity of their stance upon which they base it.
If I could make a request, is there any way this could be added to the OP (and possibly the other 6-part video that someone posted) for consideration?
On June 21 2013 18:05 NEEDZMOAR wrote: its incredible how everyone in this thread suddenly became an expert on obesity, what causes it and people who do suffer from it! Hey why dont you guys phone up AMA, tell them about your knowledge and insta replace their experts? Just be careful about mentioning your sources (internet/ your ass) cuz it might not seem very legit in their eyes even though all of you are obviously 100% right about what youre saying!
I like how you say people "suffer" from obesity like its a disease. Hey folks look at that guy, he suffers from that new being fat disease, poor him :/
Its more that people suffer from severe laziness and/or lack of character and thats why they're obese (excluding ones that genuinly have hormonal or whatever health issues that causes them to be obese).
gehehehe your reply is quite amusing considering its exactly what my post is about x)
Gehahaheh hue hue Im glad I cheered you up, I was laughing aswell when writing that comment hahha.
Whenever me and my dad drive in a car and see a fat person riding a bike (or dear god one time we saw one riding a horse) we drow slowly by them, push the horn and laugh and cheer that person. So amuzing indeed.
EPT
