On June 21 2013 03:52 Stress wrote: To me a disease is something that is out of your control, such as huntington's or parkinson's, and in the case of being obese if you have a glandular disorder. The vast majority of obese people have no glandular disorder, they are obese because of lifestyle choices. This is just watering down the subject since every year it seems more and more people are becoming overweight due to a lack of care and self-control.
I'm going to have to agree here. It's a mental condition if anything. I had experience with this, and it really is nothing more than that. You know you shouldn't eat that food. You know it's bad for you. You know if you don't eat it you'll be under your caloric intake for that day and you'll be on the right track but your brain just fucking forces you man. It's honestly a terrible experience, and a lot of physically fit people who've never had to deal with being obese/overweight will never understand that. It takes an incredible amount of mental fortitude to lose weight because for the first couple of weeks it genuinely feels like you are starving yourself even if you're still taking in 3000 calories per day and your body becomes so accustomed to it you start to freaking break down at times.
I don't know how they got to the conclusion that this is a disease, but anything to provide more awareness is good in my book as far as I'm concerned though.
That sounds really tough. But to it sounds more as a kind of bad habit, like smoking or something, than a real disease. Obesity is just as much a disease as being addicted to cigarettes (with the exception of when it really is a disease).
On June 21 2013 18:05 NEEDZMOAR wrote: its incredible how everyone in this thread suddenly became an expert on obesity, what causes it and people who do suffer from it! Hey why dont you guys phone up AMA, tell them about your knowledge and insta replace their experts? Just be careful about mentioning your sources (internet/ your ass) cuz it might not seem very legit in their eyes even though all of you are obviously 100% right about what youre saying!
I like how you say people "suffer" from obesity like its a disease. Hey folks look at that guy, he suffers from that new being fat disease, poor him :/
Its more that people suffer from severe laziness and/or lack of character and thats why they're obese (excluding ones that genuinly have hormonal or whatever health issues that causes them to be obese).
I can bet you million bucks that obesity have more to to with anxiety than it has with laziness. Calling fat people lazy are just a way for people to feel superior over others.
Plenty of people eat less when anxious too though. If you are feeling sick to the stomach with nerves/stress/worries, it can feel hard to put stuff down there (in other people's cases keep it down). Do that regularly and maybe it's an eating disorder, but if it's just on occasion, or probably shouldn't affect their weight much. Exercising in small amounts, on the other hand, is probably going to make more a difference to not exercising at all (other than getting in and out of a car...).
I think a much bigger example of this "laziness" though is that so many people use the excuse that "healthy food is more expensive", which in many places simply isn't true; it can even be cheaper. Eating healthily can and usually does require more effort though, more preparation of food ingredients. Some people are too slim from trying to eat healthily but lazily by only buying expensive pre-packaged salad mixes, buying pre-made healthy meals from cafés, restaurants etc. and simply not getting enough food/energy into their bodies as a result.
Not all people who complain about healthy food being more expensive have weight problems though and perhaps this is where genetics been kind to them. Genetics certainly play a part but for most people, they won't be the only deciding factor. You can't just use them as an excuse on their own, à la "Imbalance! Imbalance! My genetics UP! Nerf OP slim people!" T_T
On June 21 2013 18:05 NEEDZMOAR wrote: its incredible how everyone in this thread suddenly became an expert on obesity, what causes it and people who do suffer from it! Hey why dont you guys phone up AMA, tell them about your knowledge and insta replace their experts? Just be careful about mentioning your sources (internet/ your ass) cuz it might not seem very legit in their eyes even though all of you are obviously 100% right about what youre saying!
I like how you say people "suffer" from obesity like its a disease. Hey folks look at that guy, he suffers from that new being fat disease, poor him :/
Its more that people suffer from severe laziness and/or lack of character and thats why they're obese (excluding ones that genuinly have hormonal or whatever health issues that causes them to be obese).
gehehehe your reply is quite amusing considering its exactly what my post is about x)
Gehahaheh hue hue Im glad I cheered you up, I was laughing aswell when writing that comment hahha.
Whenever me and my dad drive in a car and see a fat person riding a bike (or dear god one time we saw one riding a horse) we drow slowly by them, push the horn and laugh and cheer that person. So amuzing indeed.
NukeD, if I'm understanding NEEDZMOAR correctly, he's saying your statement here:
Its more that people suffer from severe laziness and/or lack of character and thats why they're obese (excluding ones that genuinly have hormonal or whatever health issues that causes them to be obese).
is just what he's referring to here:
Just be careful about mentioning your sources (internet/ your ass) cuz it might not seem very legit in their eyes even
Great, maybe one day willpower and choice won't be such romanticized concepts that we don't need to have a 20 page discussion on whether obesity is an actual problem.
All in all, this will not change the perception of obese people for the public; it'll probably increase people's negative perception now that obese people have even more excuse to be obese or cried so hard to classify it as so. Decreasing the rate of obesity is the only good thing that could come out classifying obesity as a disease; everything else about obesity, well picking on fat people just got easier.
On June 21 2013 03:52 Stress wrote: To me a disease is something that is out of your control, such as huntington's or parkinson's, and in the case of being obese if you have a glandular disorder. The vast majority of obese people have no glandular disorder, they are obese because of lifestyle choices. This is just watering down the subject since every year it seems more and more people are becoming overweight due to a lack of care and self-control.
I'm going to have to agree here. It's a mental condition if anything. I had experience with this, and it really is nothing more than that. You know you shouldn't eat that food. You know it's bad for you. You know if you don't eat it you'll be under your caloric intake for that day and you'll be on the right track but your brain just fucking forces you man. It's honestly a terrible experience, and a lot of physically fit people who've never had to deal with being obese/overweight will never understand that. It takes an incredible amount of mental fortitude to lose weight because for the first couple of weeks it genuinely feels like you are starving yourself even if you're still taking in 3000 calories per day and your body becomes so accustomed to it you start to freaking break down at times.
I don't know how they got to the conclusion that this is a disease, but anything to provide more awareness is good in my book as far as I'm concerned though.
That sounds really tough. But to it sounds more as a kind of bad habit, like smoking or something, than a real disease. Obesity is just as much a disease as being addicted to cigarettes (with the exception of when it really is a disease).
I think most people agree on smoking being an addiction, regardless if there is a habitual component in smoking. Furthermore many people see a social component in smoking, and here lies another similarity with overeating (which causes obesity): In our past eating was attributed to either nutrition or an occasion of social gathering. Most obese people and smokers in general (well except Party-Smokers) consume their drugs alone and way beyond nutritional requirements.
Difference is mainly in the perception of people who do smoke (mundane in the past, cool today maybe) and fat people (lack of willpower etc, im a fat-shamer, I know)
On June 21 2013 21:06 Kaeru wrote: Hahaha this is so funny. If I was fat as hell I would now call to my boss and say "Sorry I have to stay home from work this week, I feel really fat."
Sure there are genetics involved as people are claiming. Some people have hard time gaining weight (me!). Some people have hard time losing weight... But still it is nothing but a personal choice. Being fat is not a disease it's being lazy and incompetent.
I have NEVER meet a fat person that does correct exercise 3-5 times per week and thinks about what he/she eats. What I have meet are fat people sitting at McDonalds eating 10 burgers and crying over their weight "Buhu it's my genetics I'm so fat". NO. Shut the fuck up and put some effort into life and maybe you'll get in shape.
Yeah, it won't take a week. or a month. But maybe 1-2 years to loose weight. Shit I get so angry at this topic... Sad.
Hats down to that guy. I only hope that hanging skin problem will fix itself over time cos he fckin deserves it.
On June 21 2013 18:05 NEEDZMOAR wrote: its incredible how everyone in this thread suddenly became an expert on obesity, what causes it and people who do suffer from it! Hey why dont you guys phone up AMA, tell them about your knowledge and insta replace their experts? Just be careful about mentioning your sources (internet/ your ass) cuz it might not seem very legit in their eyes even though all of you are obviously 100% right about what youre saying!
I like how you say people "suffer" from obesity like its a disease. Hey folks look at that guy, he suffers from that new being fat disease, poor him :/
Its more that people suffer from severe laziness and/or lack of character and thats why they're obese (excluding ones that genuinly have hormonal or whatever health issues that causes them to be obese).
I can bet you million bucks that obesity have more to to with anxiety than it has with laziness. Calling fat people lazy are just a way for people to feel superior over others.
Plenty of people eat less when anxious too though. If you are feeling sick to the stomach with nerves/stress/worries, it can feel hard to put stuff down there (in other people's cases keep it down). Do that regularly and maybe it's an eating disorder, but if it's just on occasion, or probably shouldn't affect their weight much. Exercising in small amounts, on the other hand, is probably going to make more a difference to not exercising at all (other than getting in and out of a car...).
I think a much bigger example of this "laziness" though is that so many people use the excuse that "healthy food is more expensive", which in many places simply isn't true; it can even be cheaper. Eating healthily can and usually does require more effort though, more preparation of food ingredients. Some people are too slim from trying to eat healthily but lazily by only buying expensive pre-packaged salad mixes, buying pre-made healthy meals from cafés, restaurants etc. and simply not getting enough food/energy into their bodies as a result.
Not all people who complain about healthy food being more expensive have weight problems though and perhaps this is where genetics been kind to them. Genetics certainly play a part but for most people, they won't be the only deciding factor. You can't just use them as an excuse on their own, à la "Imbalance! Imbalance! My genetics UP! Nerf OP slim people!" T_T
On June 21 2013 18:05 NEEDZMOAR wrote: its incredible how everyone in this thread suddenly became an expert on obesity, what causes it and people who do suffer from it! Hey why dont you guys phone up AMA, tell them about your knowledge and insta replace their experts? Just be careful about mentioning your sources (internet/ your ass) cuz it might not seem very legit in their eyes even though all of you are obviously 100% right about what youre saying!
I like how you say people "suffer" from obesity like its a disease. Hey folks look at that guy, he suffers from that new being fat disease, poor him :/
Its more that people suffer from severe laziness and/or lack of character and thats why they're obese (excluding ones that genuinly have hormonal or whatever health issues that causes them to be obese).
gehehehe your reply is quite amusing considering its exactly what my post is about x)
Gehahaheh hue hue Im glad I cheered you up, I was laughing aswell when writing that comment hahha.
Whenever me and my dad drive in a car and see a fat person riding a bike (or dear god one time we saw one riding a horse) we drow slowly by them, push the horn and laugh and cheer that person. So amuzing indeed.
NukeD, if I'm understanding NEEDZMOAR correctly, he's saying your statement here:
Its more that people suffer from severe laziness and/or lack of character and thats why they're obese (excluding ones that genuinly have hormonal or whatever health issues that causes them to be obese).
Just be careful about mentioning your sources (internet/ your ass) cuz it might not seem very legit in their eyes even
Yup thats what I meant, Also, there are plenty of places in the US where takeout food and fast food meals are a lot cheaper and definitely more easily accessible than groceries/healthy food, just saying.
On June 21 2013 07:39 On_Slaught wrote: Gary Taubes gives a VERY strong argument for why the calories equation has literally nothing to do with weight gain. He says that relying on the law of thermodynamics (which is what people are doing when they argue this) is making an 8th grade level math mistake. This law has no more impact on weight gain than the law of relativity does.
Rather his argument, for those who don't have the patience to watch the whole video, is that the common view is backwards (he goes into the history of how this was lost). Fat people don't get fatter because they eat more, they eat more because they are fat. Basic biology tells us that it has everything to do with how our hormones are influenced by our food (he goes into a lot of detail about how big genetics is to weight gain. Anybody who says it is a minor issue is completely un-grounded). The ultimate conclusion is that the specific substance which causes ALL fat creation in cells is insulin. Insulin is caused by carbohydrate intake. Therefore carbohydrate intake directly leads to fat increases. He argues that you can literally eat as much non-carbohydrated food as you want and you couldn't gain weight gain weight.
However this does not free people from personal responsibility. It happens to be that many of the best tasting food happens to create insulin so personal discipline is still a huge factor.
It's nice to actually listen to somebody who at least gives sound scientific basis for his arguments rather than the pure shit being dredged up in this thread. And even for the people not spouting pure shit, there is no basis other than the ubiquity of their stance upon which they base it.
On June 21 2013 07:30 nukeazerg wrote: Biology is not physics. Boys get lean with more muscle during puberty and girls get 50% fatter. This does not mean the girls ate more.
Biology, like all things, is subject to the laws physics. Are you just trolling or do you really think your "big bones" are the Higgs Boson and mass just appears on your body? Where the fuck do you think fat cones from?
Case in point.
Before immediately jumping on the Taubes train take a step back and think about it.
Taubes is correct when he says, “Those who get fat do so because of the way their fat is regulated.” But they still couldn’t get fat without eating too many calories for their particular metabolism, and if a way can be found to decrease their calorie intake to a level appropriate for their metabolism, they will lose weight.
What about weight loss itself? If Taubes’ thesis is correct, we would expect studies to consistently show a strong superiority of low-carb diets for weight loss. This 2010 study showed no difference in weight loss between low fat and low carb diets over a 2 year period, although low-carb dieters had more favorable changes in lipids. A 2009 study in NEJM compared weight loss from diets with different compositions of fat, protein and carbohydrates and found that low-carb diets were not superior, and that clinically meaningful weight loss results from weight loss diets “regardless of which macronutrients they emphasize.” An accompanying editorial suggests that behavioral factors are more important to weight loss than the type of diet, and that a total environmental approach is needed.
Taubes says right off the bat that “these competing ideas should be tested” and admits that such testing has not been done; but since obesity is such a serious problem, he says it is urgent that we institute his diet recommendations now, without waiting for the evidence. Yet he criticizes the low-fat diet campaign for doing just that: we went beyond the evidence and instituted society-wide changes based on inadequate data, with what Taubes considers to be disastrous results. How can he be so certain we should go beyond the evidence this time?
The whole thing is a good read though if you have time.
On June 21 2013 21:06 Kaeru wrote: Hahaha this is so funny. If I was fat as hell I would now call to my boss and say "Sorry I have to stay home from work this week, I feel really fat."
Sure there are genetics involved as people are claiming. Some people have hard time gaining weight (me!). Some people have hard time losing weight... But still it is nothing but a personal choice. Being fat is not a disease it's being lazy and incompetent.
I have NEVER meet a fat person that does correct exercise 3-5 times per week and thinks about what he/she eats. What I have meet are fat people sitting at McDonalds eating 10 burgers and crying over their weight "Buhu it's my genetics I'm so fat". NO. Shut the fuck up and put some effort into life and maybe you'll get in shape.
Yeah, it won't take a week. or a month. But maybe 1-2 years to loose weight. Shit I get so angry at this topic... Sad.
On June 21 2013 21:06 Kaeru wrote: Hahaha this is so funny. If I was fat as hell I would now call to my boss and say "Sorry I have to stay home from work this week, I feel really fat."
Sure there are genetics involved as people are claiming. Some people have hard time gaining weight (me!). Some people have hard time losing weight... But still it is nothing but a personal choice. Being fat is not a disease it's being lazy and incompetent.
I have NEVER meet a fat person that does correct exercise 3-5 times per week and thinks about what he/she eats. What I have meet are fat people sitting at McDonalds eating 10 burgers and crying over their weight "Buhu it's my genetics I'm so fat". NO. Shut the fuck up and put some effort into life and maybe you'll get in shape.
Yeah, it won't take a week. or a month. But maybe 1-2 years to loose weight. Shit I get so angry at this topic... Sad.
On June 21 2013 03:50 Attica wrote: Are people going to be getting disability now because they are fat and lazy.
That's been a thing for a while. Not sure how I feel about this. Obviously part of a person's weight is based on factors beyond their control, such as their genetics, but I don't think a person can just catch obesity. That much comes from lack of dieting and exercise. They mention the need for "Behavior modifying programs" to fight obesity; so does that define it more as a mental illness or addiction? You wouldn't go to a behavior modifying program to fight asthma or cancer.
Also I like how it says they ignored the advice of experts. There really is no gain from calling it a disease
On June 21 2013 03:50 Attica wrote: Are people going to be getting disability now because they are fat and lazy.
oh yeah ofc you are lazy if you are fat. what a stupid comment
If you were fat and not lazy, you wouldn't need to collect disability.
Still dumb. Being fat does not hinder you to do the same work as your normal weighing colleagues or do your studies with the same effort and sucess. If you really think this, you are either a douche or a fascist who thinks that only a healthy body can be useful and all that weird shit.
Well except for physical exhausting work (which is done by only a small percentage of the workforce in modern industrialized countries.).
There are already people with severe obesity who do not work and collect disability as a result, taking no action to change their situation.
But thats something very different. If you are sooo fat (which is far beyond simple obesity) that you cant work at all, than it is too late.
Then what are you actually trying to argue?
People who are fat and too lazy to prevent or change their situation can (and do) collect disability. This is what the first poster you quoted stated would happen (it already does), and you took insult to.
Those who are fat and still work obviously will not.
On June 21 2013 03:50 Attica wrote: Are people going to be getting disability now because they are fat and lazy.
oh yeah ofc you are lazy if you are fat. what a stupid comment
If you were fat and not lazy, you wouldn't need to collect disability.
Still dumb. Being fat does not hinder you to do the same work as your normal weighing colleagues or do your studies with the same effort and sucess. If you really think this, you are either a douche or a fascist who thinks that only a healthy body can be useful and all that weird shit.
Well except for physical exhausting work (which is done by only a small percentage of the workforce in modern industrialized countries.).
There are already people with severe obesity who do not work and collect disability as a result, taking no action to change their situation.
But thats something very different. If you are sooo fat (which is far beyond simple obesity) that you cant work at all, than it is too late.
Then what are you actually trying to argue?
People who are fat and too lazy to prevent or change their situation can (and do) collect disability. This is what the first poster you quoted stated would happen (it already does), and you took insult to.
Those who are fat and still work obviously will not.
and what would you do, just let them die ?
I haven't given my viewpoint, only explained what the originally quoted poster was getting at to answer a kneejerk reaction.
Ive never been fat except briefly but really, why wouldn't it be a disorder? We call mental disorders for a class of the more general spectrum 'disease', and with good reason. There is a lot of evidence for how genetics and environment influence a person leading to obesity, so surely obesity is a type of mental disorder.
People go under some illusion that because something is "mental" or has to do with behaviour, then it is somehow "magical". Every mental event is a physical event. There is no free will. Your brain "chooses" what you will do in any given situation before youre even consciously aware of making a choice. In the light of this, it's quite obvious how obesity is to be classified as an illness, and I find it more interesting why people have such an inate urge to belittle and ridicule fat people in the first place. Its like an itch, people just HAVE TO do it it seems. My suspicion is that it partly is an evolutionary function going haywire, ie if we in a group dislike a certain behaviour it will go away. This may have worked millenia ago for other things, but fat people today will only eat more if belittled hence people are not only being cruel, they are being so unwarranted.
So the question is, did any of you making shitty arguments as to why obesity isn't an illness have any choice in the matter? Probably not.
On June 21 2013 21:06 Kaeru wrote: Hahaha this is so funny. If I was fat as hell I would now call to my boss and say "Sorry I have to stay home from work this week, I feel really fat."
Sure there are genetics involved as people are claiming. Some people have hard time gaining weight (me!). Some people have hard time losing weight... But still it is nothing but a personal choice. Being fat is not a disease it's being lazy and incompetent.
I have NEVER meet a fat person that does correct exercise 3-5 times per week and thinks about what he/she eats. What I have meet are fat people sitting at McDonalds eating 10 burgers and crying over their weight "Buhu it's my genetics I'm so fat". NO. Shut the fuck up and put some effort into life and maybe you'll get in shape.
Yeah, it won't take a week. or a month. But maybe 1-2 years to loose weight. Shit I get so angry at this topic... Sad.
Its not really as simple. Often depression and stress have something to do with it. Its not something that you just get rid off like the fat. Loosing weigth takes years, but getting rid of that mental state is even harder, and having to deal with both Things at the same time can seem impossible for the person.
Since I moved to the states it is a rarity to have a day pass without me spotting the most repulsive human being I've ever seen. Seriously, how do you even get that fat? Some of those whales even have kids. How do they fuck?
At Lunch yesterday I threw up after I saw one of them wearing leggings. Gross.
On June 21 2013 23:04 Cattlecruiser wrote: Since I moved to the states it is a rarity to have a day pass without me spotting the most repulsive human being I've ever seen. Seriously, how do you even get that fat? Some of those whales even have kids. How do they fuck?
At Lunch yesterday I threw up after I saw one of them wearing leggings. Gross.
Since I started browsing this thread there hasn't been a day without me spotting some guy exposing his disgusting opinion about fat people. Seriously how can you get so stupid ? Some of these even believe their ideas are worth sharing. Will they shut up ?
On June 21 2013 21:06 Kaeru wrote: Sure there are genetics involved as people are claiming. Some people have hard time gaining weight (me!). Some people have hard time losing weight... But still it is nothing but a personal choice. Being fat is not a disease it's being lazy and incompetent.
I have NEVER meet a fat person that does correct exercise 3-5 times per week and thinks about what he/she eats. What I have meet are fat people sitting at McDonalds eating 10 burgers and crying over their weight "Buhu it's my genetics I'm so fat". NO. Shut the fuck up and put some effort into life and maybe you'll get in shape.
Yeah, it won't take a week. or a month. But maybe 1-2 years to loose weight. Shit I get so angry at this topic... Sad.
I've known very few fat people who don't know 100% why they are fat. They know what they should do, yet they cant find it in themselves to do it. Brain chemistry and structure comes into play at this point. Genetics isnt just some magic card you can throw around in one sentence and then go "hey its just a personal choice durp durp". It influences every aspect of being, in this case a bad combo of genes and environment creates a brainstructure with a prefrontal cortex unable to handle the strong impulses generated by the brain. I actually find it quite ridiculous how you portray grown up people. Sure there are those people among the obese, but to think that the general "fat person" is just too retarded to realize that eating less and working out more would result in weightloss is pretty sad actually. If that were true, surely they would be sick, as in mentally challenged. Are you suggesting that the majority of fat people are mentally challenged?
Do you think shaming fat people into being thin works? As with any addiction it will not. Show some compassion instead and perhaps they will get to the point where they can feel good about themselves without that dopamine from cakes and cookies.
As with any farfetched and nonfactual idea, people draw from the absurd or occasional occurrence in order to defend their view, instead of actually looking at the facts and god forbid taking a good look at ones own beliefs. This is religious thinking at its worst. How about you ask yourself why you view others through such shitty lenses?
I'm sure everyone fat bashing in this thread going on about how repulsive they are to look at workout 3-5 times a week and look like pro athletes right? Because scrawny people are just utterly disgusting and repulsive to look at. I mean do you people have any self respect? You are all just so lazy, I mean why don't you do something about that? It must mean you're too damn lazy and have no self respect to do anything about it.
EPT
