On June 21 2013 21:06 Kaeru wrote: Hahaha this is so funny. If I was fat as hell I would now call to my boss and say "Sorry I have to stay home from work this week, I feel really fat."
Sure there are genetics involved as people are claiming. Some people have hard time gaining weight (me!). Some people have hard time losing weight... But still it is nothing but a personal choice. Being fat is not a disease it's being lazy and incompetent.
I have NEVER meet a fat person that does correct exercise 3-5 times per week and thinks about what he/she eats. What I have meet are fat people sitting at McDonalds eating 10 burgers and crying over their weight "Buhu it's my genetics I'm so fat". NO. Shut the fuck up and put some effort into life and maybe you'll get in shape.
Yeah, it won't take a week. or a month. But maybe 1-2 years to loose weight. Shit I get so angry at this topic... Sad.
Hats down to that guy. I only hope that hanging skin problem will fix itself over time cos he fckin deserves it.
Hell yes he does! That skin problem had better fix itself after all that he's accomplished! He deserves to look like a speedo model for that amazing display of self-discipline. People like that are inspiring for the rest of us and will be richly rewarded if there's any justice in the universe (although I kind of gave up on justice in the universe a long time ago ).
On June 21 2013 21:06 Kaeru wrote: Hahaha this is so funny. If I was fat as hell I would now call to my boss and say "Sorry I have to stay home from work this week, I feel really fat."
Sure there are genetics involved as people are claiming. Some people have hard time gaining weight (me!). Some people have hard time losing weight... But still it is nothing but a personal choice. Being fat is not a disease it's being lazy and incompetent.
I have NEVER meet a fat person that does correct exercise 3-5 times per week and thinks about what he/she eats. What I have meet are fat people sitting at McDonalds eating 10 burgers and crying over their weight "Buhu it's my genetics I'm so fat". NO. Shut the fuck up and put some effort into life and maybe you'll get in shape.
Yeah, it won't take a week. or a month. But maybe 1-2 years to loose weight. Shit I get so angry at this topic... Sad.
Hats down to that guy. I only hope that hanging skin problem will fix itself over time cos he fckin deserves it.
Hell yes he does! That skin problem had better fix itself after all that he's accomplished! He deserves to look like a speedo model for that amazing display of self-discipline. People like that are inspiring for the rest of us and will be richly rewarded if there's any justice in the universe (although I kind of gave up on justice in the universe a long time ago ).
More muscle helps, but this problem can actually take up to 2 years to solve itself.
On June 21 2013 21:06 Kaeru wrote: Hahaha this is so funny. If I was fat as hell I would now call to my boss and say "Sorry I have to stay home from work this week, I feel really fat."
Sure there are genetics involved as people are claiming. Some people have hard time gaining weight (me!). Some people have hard time losing weight... But still it is nothing but a personal choice. Being fat is not a disease it's being lazy and incompetent.
I have NEVER meet a fat person that does correct exercise 3-5 times per week and thinks about what he/she eats. What I have meet are fat people sitting at McDonalds eating 10 burgers and crying over their weight "Buhu it's my genetics I'm so fat". NO. Shut the fuck up and put some effort into life and maybe you'll get in shape.
Yeah, it won't take a week. or a month. But maybe 1-2 years to loose weight. Shit I get so angry at this topic... Sad.
Hats down to that guy. I only hope that hanging skin problem will fix itself over time cos he fckin deserves it.
You can't remove the excess skin without a surgical intervention.
It depends on how long he was that fat and how young he is. But with that much extra skin, I'm going to say he lost that weight WAY too fast. If you lose weight at a moderated pace, your skin will naturally stay tight as you lose the weight. It only gets like that when you drop all of your weight at once.
On June 21 2013 21:06 Kaeru wrote: Hahaha this is so funny. If I was fat as hell I would now call to my boss and say "Sorry I have to stay home from work this week, I feel really fat."
Sure there are genetics involved as people are claiming. Some people have hard time gaining weight (me!). Some people have hard time losing weight... But still it is nothing but a personal choice. Being fat is not a disease it's being lazy and incompetent.
I have NEVER meet a fat person that does correct exercise 3-5 times per week and thinks about what he/she eats. What I have meet are fat people sitting at McDonalds eating 10 burgers and crying over their weight "Buhu it's my genetics I'm so fat". NO. Shut the fuck up and put some effort into life and maybe you'll get in shape.
Yeah, it won't take a week. or a month. But maybe 1-2 years to loose weight. Shit I get so angry at this topic... Sad.
Hats down to that guy. I only hope that hanging skin problem will fix itself over time cos he fckin deserves it.
You can't remove the excess skin without a surgical intervention.
It depends on how long he was that fat and how young he is. But with that much extra skin, I'm going to say he lost that weight WAY too fast. If you lose weight at a moderated pace, your skin will naturally stay tight as you lose the weight. It only gets like that when you drop all of your weight at once.
Will surgery be able to get rid of the excess skin? And if so, is it a simple and straightforward operation?
On June 21 2013 20:14 NeVeR wrote: these days everything is a disease
The society we live in today is terrified of responsibility.
Everything is a disease, everything is a disorder, nothing is ever anyone's fault.
It's society's fault, or the media, or your parents, or the teachers, or the schools, or the government.
Nobody wants to be held responsible for anything, even their own actions. There's always something to explain away or justify or defend yourself.
We'd rather our kids weigh 300 lb and have high self esteem, to go along with their heart disease and diabetes, than dare hurt their feelings.
This is pretty much what I think whenever I hear anyone say they have any mild disease
"Oh I have mild Asperger's" No you're more then likely just socially awkward.. "I have ADHD" No you just don't want to focus/ actually work... "I'm Bi polar" No you're just a cunt....
I know some people legitimately have those conditions but 8/10 people claiming them just want some excuse to act like idiots and have no consequences for their actions etc.. It really frustrates me how so many people flat out refuse to take any responsibility for their actions and life and just blame it on what ever disease or condition they see on tv or read about in magazines etc.
Sorry if this rant got a little off topic it just pisses me off!
On June 21 2013 21:06 Kaeru wrote: Hahaha this is so funny. If I was fat as hell I would now call to my boss and say "Sorry I have to stay home from work this week, I feel really fat."
Sure there are genetics involved as people are claiming. Some people have hard time gaining weight (me!). Some people have hard time losing weight... But still it is nothing but a personal choice. Being fat is not a disease it's being lazy and incompetent.
I have NEVER meet a fat person that does correct exercise 3-5 times per week and thinks about what he/she eats. What I have meet are fat people sitting at McDonalds eating 10 burgers and crying over their weight "Buhu it's my genetics I'm so fat". NO. Shut the fuck up and put some effort into life and maybe you'll get in shape.
Yeah, it won't take a week. or a month. But maybe 1-2 years to loose weight. Shit I get so angry at this topic... Sad.
Hats down to that guy. I only hope that hanging skin problem will fix itself over time cos he fckin deserves it.
You can't remove the excess skin without a surgical intervention.
It depends on how long he was that fat and how young he is. But with that much extra skin, I'm going to say he lost that weight WAY too fast. If you lose weight at a moderated pace, your skin will naturally stay tight as you lose the weight. It only gets like that when you drop all of your weight at once.
Will surgery be able to get rid of the excess skin? And if so, is it a simple and straightforward operation?
Yup. There's a procedure called a "body lift" where a cosmetic surgeon removes the excess skin. I believe it requires general anesthesia which carries not insignificant risks but it's not like a cosmetic clinic is a slaughterhouse. You can get the surgery and not worry.
Although there is usually pretty bad scaring and your skin still isn't perfectly tight. But both of those things will resolve themselves in time and at least you can wear a shirt without looking lumpy and weird.
On June 21 2013 20:14 NeVeR wrote: these days everything is a disease
The society we live in today is terrified of responsibility.
Everything is a disease, everything is a disorder, nothing is ever anyone's fault.
It's society's fault, or the media, or your parents, or the teachers, or the schools, or the government.
Nobody wants to be held responsible for anything, even their own actions. There's always something to explain away or justify or defend yourself.
We'd rather our kids weigh 300 lb and have high self esteem, to go along with their heart disease and diabetes, than dare hurt their feelings.
This is pretty much what I think whenever I hear anyone say they have any mild disease
"Oh I have mild Asperger's" No you're more then likely just socially awkward.. "I have ADHD" No you just don't want to focus/ actually work... "I'm Bi polar" No you're just a cunt....
I know some people legitimately have those conditions but 8/10 people claiming them just want some excuse to act like idiots and have no consequences for their actions etc.. It really frustrates me how so many people flat out refuse to take any responsibility for their actions and life and just blame it on what ever disease or condition they see on tv or read about in magazines etc.
Sorry if this rant got a little off topic it just pisses me off!
It's a pain in the fucking ass. As an occasional close-to suicidal, consistent depressive, I will fucking gut the next person who gets some medical note excusing them from academic study because they are 'bipolar'. Everybody has to have some niche mental condition in lieu of being an interesting person, it's pathetic.
Worse is how terrified people are of being sued for mental health discrimination that some of these cuntbags are never called on their nonsense, essentially self-diagnosed cries for attention.
So many people are like that over here, god knows what it's like in the States where that culture seems more developed.
Obesity may be a symptom, but it also causes many problems, so in that sense it still makes sense to say its a disease. We all know being fat increases chance of developing cancer, type 2 diabetes, high cholesterol, and heart disease, so it seems to fit the requirements of a type of disorder - because it clearly causes problems in the body.
And just because it can be "acquired" voluntarily doesn't mean that it can't be a disease. I think Klondike mentioned it earlier...you can do a lot of things voluntarily that will lead to contracting various diseases, like smoking cigarettes to develop lung cancer (apparently cancer can be classified as a type of disease).
I don't think classifying a disease "lets people off the hook" as others are suggesting. If you change the wording from just being a fat person to actually having a disease, then to me it shows that what they have is serious and they need to take it as seriously as any other disease. Its not just extra weight that looks unappealing, it has serious health risks (obviously), but when its labelled a disease its clearer to see that for the general public.
I mean just look at all of the well-known "genuine" diseases out there...no one would say that they're off the hook if their behaviour leads them to have a higher risk of contracting any of those diseases. No one wants to be diseased! And since this is clearly a preventable disease, I don't really see the issue with escaping personal responsibility here.
edit: Then again maybe some people would like to be diseased. I guess it can be a psychological crutch...oh I can't do that, I'm diseased. Help me I'm diseased!! lol
Everything is a disease, everything is a disorder, nothing is ever anyone's fault.
It's society's fault, or the media, or your parents, or the teachers, or the schools, or the government.
Yeah, it's actually like we live in a society we interact with! Like what do you think, that humans make their decisions in a vacuum? You are influenced by your environment, there is no "free decision making" that only happens in your head, people are made out of stuff that follows the rules of physics like everything else on this planet, i never understood why people think humans are like magical beings that make all their decisions "freely".
And that may seem like a philosophical discussion, but it's actually a really important point when it comes to how we treat people who mistreat their own body.
And another important point, there are a lot of diseases that are influenced by personal life choices. People seem to draw a magical line between obesity and everything else. If you smoke to much you will damage your lung and other parts of your body, if you drink too much you increase your risk for liver damage and cancer. You also increase your cancer risk by not eating enough vegetables, drinking tea/coffee or working out. Most illnesses people get treated for ar at least (heavily) influenced if not caused by their lifestyle decisions. If you treat persons like they're all responsible for what they do(which i still think is stupid) people should at least be consistent.
On June 22 2013 00:29 Toasterbaked wrote: Obesity is a symptom...
Or you just eat too much. Either way, it isn't a disease.
Yeah; "at best" compulsive eating and/or metabolic-related issues are a disease, but certainly not obesity itself.
What the AMA did was just some sort of legal cop-out and/or misguided attempt at directing change. There might be some benefits but: - It's a double edged sword - Truth/accuracy is an important thing regardless of whether it results in good or bad outcomes.
On June 21 2013 03:52 Stress wrote: To me a disease is something that is out of your control, such as huntington's or parkinson's, and in the case of being obese if you have a glandular disorder. The vast majority of obese people have no glandular disorder, they are obese because of lifestyle choices. This is just watering down the subject since every year it seems more and more people are becoming overweight due to a lack of care and self-control.
I'm going to have to agree here. It's a mental condition if anything. I had experience with this, and it really is nothing more than that. You know you shouldn't eat that food. You know it's bad for you. You know if you don't eat it you'll be under your caloric intake for that day and you'll be on the right track but your brain just fucking forces you man. It's honestly a terrible experience, and a lot of physically fit people who've never had to deal with being obese/overweight will never understand that. It takes an incredible amount of mental fortitude to lose weight because for the first couple of weeks it genuinely feels like you are starving yourself even if you're still taking in 3000 calories per day and your body becomes so accustomed to it you start to freaking break down at times.
I don't know how they got to the conclusion that this is a disease, but anything to provide more awareness is good in my book as far as I'm concerned though.
On June 21 2013 03:52 Stress wrote: To me a disease is something that is out of your control, such as huntington's or parkinson's, and in the case of being obese if you have a glandular disorder. The vast majority of obese people have no glandular disorder, they are obese because of lifestyle choices. This is just watering down the subject since every year it seems more and more people are becoming overweight due to a lack of care and self-control.
Your logic kind of breaks down when you get to sexually transmitted diseases. Aside from rape, a person who contracts an STD did so due to their own carelessness or complacency, but STD's are still very real diseases.
It really comes down to how you define the word disease, and whether or not victims act like victims or act like survivors. People are right in that too many people use "I'm sick! Alcoholism/Obesity/Drug Addiction is a disease!" as an excuse to be apathetic in their recovery, like it's out of their control. That's wrong, and the AMA would do well to clarify and say that just because obesity is a disease, it does not mean you have an excuse to stay obese.
But if you look at the condition medically, I have a hard time calling it a "disease." Alcoholism has very specific, well-researched effects on the mind and body, especially when the person is deprived of alcohol. In that way you can suffer from the disease of alcoholism. It doesn't mean that person should be pitied or excuses should be made for them because of their condition, it just is what it is.
If this designation of obesity as a disease puts more money into the hands of people that can actually reduce the percentage of Americans who are obese, I have no qualms with the promotion. If all this does is cause more people to be excessively overweight, stressing out our medical infrastructure and explaining away their self-abuse by saying they have a disease, then we have a problem.
It all comes from the preconception that we have, for whatever reason, that a person who suffers from a disease should be pitied, no matter the disease or circumstances behind it. A child with Leukemia or a young woman with breast cancer should be pitied. The 60-year old chain smoker with lung cancer and the 350 lb man who needs a quadruple bypass should not. But they all have diseases that require treatment, whether we like it or not.
From the way people are describing it, I keep getting the impression that obesity is (ignoring for a moment the cases where it is an actual disease, a la glanular disorder) an addiction, and they're classifying addictions as diseases. I'm coming from a different realm of addiction, and "You know you shouldn't eat that food. You know it's bad for you. You know if you don't eat it you'll be under your caloric intake for that day and you'll be on the right track but your brain just fucking forces you man. It's honestly a terrible experience, and a lot of physically fit people who've never had to deal with being obese/overweight will never understand that. It takes an incredible amount of mental fortitude to lose weight because for the first couple of weeks it genuinely feels like you are starving yourself even if you're still taking in 3000 calories per day and your body becomes so accustomed to it you start to freaking break down at times." strikes a freaking bone with me, it sounds exactly what I go through with regards to my completely not-food-related addiction
When making claims about obese people being lazy, you really need to remember that everything is relative. If you're fit and normal weight, it doesn't mean that an over weight or obese person is lazy ass human being becaue they're not exercising as much as you are and because they don't eat as healthy as you do. People have different interests and goals in their lives. Also, people really don't always act so rationally as many seem to think. Of course we can make decisions, but often we just have stupid and unhealthy habits that we don't really think about. Most smokers probably know about lung cancer but often it doesn't stop them. If you have ever played SC2, you probably have done something irrational and stupid in a game for no real reason. We aren't 100% objective and rational all the time.
Nervous system and endocrine system are really tangled to each other and function of them really do alter our behavior. Extreme case being depression. There really is not "the people who have a gland malfunction" and "healthy people". It's a spectrum. And our lifestyle does alter the brain over time. Anorectic can't just start eating a lot. They need to change their way of thinking about food and themselves. And a lot of similar things are very likely to be included in obesity. Also the amount of hunger felt varies between people. Hunger isn't your own decision but more just a work of autonomy nervous system and endocrine system. Eating habits alter your hunger over time, so that too makes it harder to lose weight once you already are obese.
And people who are bringing thermodynamics to the discussion: please don't. Of course conservation of energy applies to biological systems. But it's not about what's possible and what's impossible. If people are judging people because of their lifestyles, then you really have to think relatively. A fat guy can get fit and a fit guy can get fat. The process may be harder for some people than others. There's a lot of genetics, epigenetics, endocrinology and psychology to consider to really judge how easy it is to a given person. Don't say someone is lazy-ass-stupid-not-thinking-about-his-health-moronfagdick just because you are not fat. They may have their own passions and priorities, their own thing. And yes, they have access to public health care. Should we ban alcohol because it's unhealthy (I totally would, but I see why majority of people at least in western society wouldn't) ?
Also, metabolism has much more to it than just conservation of energy. In general, yes, if you eat more, you have more energy to store or use, and vice versa if you eat less. But metabolism is so complex that reducing physiology to thermodynamics doesn't bring anything to the table. I mean, there are millions of things that body uses energy to just when you're sitting on your butt doing nothing. Then when you add your actions and body's reactions to them, so much stuff can happen that you can't just generalize it to be the same for every person.
I do have opinions on drugs and alcohol, but I'm not saying to anyone that they re fucking disgusting because they drink in order to get drunk. And getting drunk really isn't pro-healthy. I also WOULD LIKE to see more educated people who could discuss about science and programming with me, but everyone doesn't care about those topics. Everyone doesn't really care that much about their health (most people do care, but the level of caring really varies). Or some people get more enjoyment from eating. Or some people get more enjoyment from aerobic exercise. I mean, how many times have you heard about running high or something? I have bicycled a-shit-ton of kilometers and done some running too, but it really wasn't euphoric or anything, even though I had periods when I was in a pretty good (bicycling) shape. It gets kinda ok-ish after a while, but never really that enjoyable (for me). Of course a person who gets a good feeling after a run is going to like running. And that's good for him.
No, I'm not obese and I have never even been close to that.
What I'm trying to say is that yes, obesity probably is mostly caused by the obese people themselves, and they should lose some weight. But when someone is already obese, the situation has much in common with anorexia and it's not easy to get healthy. Shitting on them is just childish and very unnecessary. Only thing I have problem with is people making assumptions about people beyond their eating and exercising habits just by their weight. And people claiming their views as physiological facts and pulling numbers out of their asses.
On June 21 2013 03:52 Stress wrote: To me a disease is something that is out of your control, such as huntington's or parkinson's, and in the case of being obese if you have a glandular disorder. The vast majority of obese people have no glandular disorder, they are obese because of lifestyle choices. This is just watering down the subject since every year it seems more and more people are becoming overweight due to a lack of care and self-control.
I'm going to have to agree here. It's a mental condition if anything. I had experience with this, and it really is nothing more than that. You know you shouldn't eat that food. You know it's bad for you. You know if you don't eat it you'll be under your caloric intake for that day and you'll be on the right track but your brain just fucking forces you man. It's honestly a terrible experience, and a lot of physically fit people who've never had to deal with being obese/overweight will never understand that. It takes an incredible amount of mental fortitude to lose weight because for the first couple of weeks it genuinely feels like you are starving yourself even if you're still taking in 3000 calories per day and your body becomes so accustomed to it you start to freaking break down at times.
I don't know how they got to the conclusion that this is a disease, but anything to provide more awareness is good in my book as far as I'm concerned though.
On June 21 2013 03:52 Stress wrote: To me a disease is something that is out of your control, such as huntington's or parkinson's, and in the case of being obese if you have a glandular disorder. The vast majority of obese people have no glandular disorder, they are obese because of lifestyle choices. This is just watering down the subject since every year it seems more and more people are becoming overweight due to a lack of care and self-control.
Your logic kind of breaks down when you get to sexually transmitted diseases. Aside from rape, a person who contracts an STD did so due to their own carelessness or complacency, but STD's are still very real diseases.
It really comes down to how you define the word disease, and whether or not victims act like victims or act like survivors. People are right in that too many people use "I'm sick! Alcoholism/Obesity/Drug Addiction is a disease!" as an excuse to be apathetic in their recovery, like it's out of their control. That's wrong, and the AMA would do well to clarify and say that just because obesity is a disease, it does not mean you have an excuse to stay obese.
But if you look at the condition medically, I have a hard time calling it a "disease." Alcoholism has very specific, well-researched effects on the mind and body, especially when the person is deprived of alcohol. In that way you can suffer from the disease of alcoholism. It doesn't mean that person should be pitied or excuses should be made for them because of their condition, it just is what it is.
If this designation of obesity as a disease puts more money into the hands of people that can actually reduce the percentage of Americans who are obese, I have no qualms with the promotion. If all this does is cause more people to be excessively overweight, stressing out our medical infrastructure and explaining away their self-abuse by saying they have a disease, then we have a problem.
It all comes from the preconception that we have, for whatever reason, that a person who suffers from a disease should be pitied, no matter the disease or circumstances behind it. A child with Leukemia or a young woman with breast cancer should be pitied. The 60-year old chain smoker with lung cancer and the 350 lb man who needs a quadruple bypass should not. But they all have diseases that require treatment, whether we like it or not.
From the way people are describing it, I keep getting the impression that obesity is (ignoring for a moment the cases where it is an actual disease, a la glanular disorder) an addiction, and they're classifying addictions as diseases. I'm coming from a different realm of addiction, and "You know you shouldn't eat that food. You know it's bad for you. You know if you don't eat it you'll be under your caloric intake for that day and you'll be on the right track but your brain just fucking forces you man. It's honestly a terrible experience, and a lot of physically fit people who've never had to deal with being obese/overweight will never understand that. It takes an incredible amount of mental fortitude to lose weight because for the first couple of weeks it genuinely feels like you are starving yourself even if you're still taking in 3000 calories per day and your body becomes so accustomed to it you start to freaking break down at times." strikes a freaking bone with me, it sounds exactly what I go through with regards to my completely not-food-related addiction
But obesity is an addiction like video gaming or porn are addictions. You feel compelled to do it mentally or psychologically, but you won't go through the withdrawal symptoms that an alcoholic or heroin addict go through if you start eating less. There is a legitimate physiological effect that drug addiction has on the body beyond just putting on a few pounds, which is why I have no problem classifying them as diseases. Withdrawal symptoms from certain drugs are capable of killing people and I don't think the same can be said of dieting.
I had always thought that obesity was more of a symptom than a disease.
Honestly though, in response to the wall of text above, did you have to write that much to convince us that you were undecided? You don't seriously consider drug and alcohol addiction to be diseases too, do you? Homosexuality was once considered a disorder; that doesn't make it true.
This is the medical equivalent of saying the Earth is flat.
You know why they did this? So that doctors could bill insurance companies for all the drugs and procedures that can now be billed to medicare because of this carefully orchestrated classification. That's all.
On June 21 2013 03:52 Stress wrote: To me a disease is something that is out of your control, such as huntington's or parkinson's, and in the case of being obese if you have a glandular disorder. The vast majority of obese people have no glandular disorder, they are obese because of lifestyle choices. This is just watering down the subject since every year it seems more and more people are becoming overweight due to a lack of care and self-control.
I'm going to have to agree here. It's a mental condition if anything. I had experience with this, and it really is nothing more than that. You know you shouldn't eat that food. You know it's bad for you. You know if you don't eat it you'll be under your caloric intake for that day and you'll be on the right track but your brain just fucking forces you man. It's honestly a terrible experience, and a lot of physically fit people who've never had to deal with being obese/overweight will never understand that. It takes an incredible amount of mental fortitude to lose weight because for the first couple of weeks it genuinely feels like you are starving yourself even if you're still taking in 3000 calories per day and your body becomes so accustomed to it you start to freaking break down at times.
I don't know how they got to the conclusion that this is a disease, but anything to provide more awareness is good in my book as far as I'm concerned though.
On June 21 2013 04:06 ZasZ. wrote:
On June 21 2013 03:52 Stress wrote: To me a disease is something that is out of your control, such as huntington's or parkinson's, and in the case of being obese if you have a glandular disorder. The vast majority of obese people have no glandular disorder, they are obese because of lifestyle choices. This is just watering down the subject since every year it seems more and more people are becoming overweight due to a lack of care and self-control.
Your logic kind of breaks down when you get to sexually transmitted diseases. Aside from rape, a person who contracts an STD did so due to their own carelessness or complacency, but STD's are still very real diseases.
It really comes down to how you define the word disease, and whether or not victims act like victims or act like survivors. People are right in that too many people use "I'm sick! Alcoholism/Obesity/Drug Addiction is a disease!" as an excuse to be apathetic in their recovery, like it's out of their control. That's wrong, and the AMA would do well to clarify and say that just because obesity is a disease, it does not mean you have an excuse to stay obese.
But if you look at the condition medically, I have a hard time calling it a "disease." Alcoholism has very specific, well-researched effects on the mind and body, especially when the person is deprived of alcohol. In that way you can suffer from the disease of alcoholism. It doesn't mean that person should be pitied or excuses should be made for them because of their condition, it just is what it is.
If this designation of obesity as a disease puts more money into the hands of people that can actually reduce the percentage of Americans who are obese, I have no qualms with the promotion. If all this does is cause more people to be excessively overweight, stressing out our medical infrastructure and explaining away their self-abuse by saying they have a disease, then we have a problem.
It all comes from the preconception that we have, for whatever reason, that a person who suffers from a disease should be pitied, no matter the disease or circumstances behind it. A child with Leukemia or a young woman with breast cancer should be pitied. The 60-year old chain smoker with lung cancer and the 350 lb man who needs a quadruple bypass should not. But they all have diseases that require treatment, whether we like it or not.
From the way people are describing it, I keep getting the impression that obesity is (ignoring for a moment the cases where it is an actual disease, a la glanular disorder) an addiction, and they're classifying addictions as diseases. I'm coming from a different realm of addiction, and "You know you shouldn't eat that food. You know it's bad for you. You know if you don't eat it you'll be under your caloric intake for that day and you'll be on the right track but your brain just fucking forces you man. It's honestly a terrible experience, and a lot of physically fit people who've never had to deal with being obese/overweight will never understand that. It takes an incredible amount of mental fortitude to lose weight because for the first couple of weeks it genuinely feels like you are starving yourself even if you're still taking in 3000 calories per day and your body becomes so accustomed to it you start to freaking break down at times." strikes a freaking bone with me, it sounds exactly what I go through with regards to my completely not-food-related addiction
But obesity is an addiction like video gaming or porn are addictions. You feel compelled to do it mentally or psychologically, but you won't go through the withdrawal symptoms that an alcoholic or heroin addict go through if you start eating less. There is a legitimate physiological effect that drug addiction has on the body beyond just putting on a few pounds, which is why I have no problem classifying them as diseases. Withdrawal symptoms from certain drugs are capable of killing people and I don't think the same can be said of dieting.
That's incredibly false. Certain foods like high amounts of sugar, release pleasure hormones in your brain. "Food" in general isn't an addiction but there are certain combinations of fat, sugar, and salt (conveniently found in almost every fast food item) that absolutely has a narcotic effect on the brain. And one of the reasons dieting is so hard is precisely because of the withdrawl symptoms. The first few days or weeks of your diet are MISERABLE because your brain is literally releasing fewer happy hormones.
One of the reasons it's so easy for skinny people to stay skinny or just lose a couple of pounds and it's so hard for fat people to get skinny is because of those symptoms. There is an element of discipline that can't be ignored but I'm shocked at how many people in this thread have such strong opinions without knowing any of the medical science that went into this decision.
meh depends totally on what effects this will have in the end. if that just ends in another "but i haz disease! dont blame me!" thing with maybe even pharma industry jumping in (adhd anyone) then its terrible and just another way to claim that its not your fault.
if they finally get serious about this and for example kick the bullshit food and soda companies out of their schools its nice.
On June 22 2013 03:46 dUTtrOACh wrote: I had always thought that obesity was more of a symptom than a disease.
Honestly though, in response to the wall of text above, did you have to write that much to convince us that you were undecided? You don't seriously consider drug and alcohol addiction to be diseases too, do you? Homosexuality was once considered a disorder; that doesn't make it true.
This is the medical equivalent of saying the Earth is flat.
You know why they did this? So that doctors could bill insurance companies for all the drugs and procedures that can now be billed to medicare because of this carefully orchestrated classification. That's all.
Not sure if you are answering to me ore ZasZ, even though mentioning wall of text makes me think this is an answer to me.
You can cause yourself an addiction by consuming too much something (alcohol, cigarettes, food etc.). When you have that addiction, the condition could be classified as a disease, but I don't really care what it's classified as because it doesn't have an effect on the physiology of the condition. If I had to choose, I wouldn't call obesity a disease.
No idea why you are bringing homosexuality and flat earth up. My post was more a comment on people who were mocking obese people. So technically it was off-topic.
And still not sure if you even were answering to me because I really didn't comment if obesity is a disease or not.
EPT
).
