|
What is Project Loon?
Many of us think of the Internet as a global community. But two-thirds of the world’s population does not yet have Internet access. Project Loon is a network of balloons traveling on the edge of space, designed to connect people in rural and remote areas, help fill coverage gaps, and bring people back online after disasters.
The Technology
Project Loon balloons float in the stratosphere, twice as high as airplanes and the weather. They are carried around the Earth by winds and they can be steered by rising or descending to an altitude with winds moving in the desired direction. People connect to the balloon network using a special Internet antenna attached to their building. The signal bounces from balloon to balloon, then to the global Internet back on Earth.
The Pilot Test
The Project Loon pilot test begins June 2013 on the 40th parallel south. Thirty balloons, launched from New Zealand’s South Island, will beam Internet to a small group of pilot testers. The experience of these pilot testers will be used to refine the technology and shape the next phase of Project Loon.
Festival of Flight, Christchurch, 16th June 2013
Bring your family to meet the team behind Project Loon
and learn more about balloon-powered Internet at today's Festival of Flight.
Sunday 16th June 2013, 10am-2pm NZST
Air Force Museum, 45 Harvard Ave, Wigram, Wigram Park 8140, New Zealand
Free entry.
Go to Project Loon site for registration and more details.
Project Loon
|
For now I will reserve judgment on Google's inherent intentions, since global internet access will surely benefit Google at the basic gateway level, and in so much more. Instead let me congratulate Google and be super excited about this.
Weather-based internet access has always been a geek-dream, and although this is a good start, it is only the beginning and will soon have to evolve into less physically manipulable media such as balloons. But like I said, this is an excellent start. Moreover, the way Google projects it, it aims for global internet access to aid network of information, mainly practical and professional ones such as medical information, farming, etc. I am sure this are the lateral projects of Google as well and they will fund heavily on it.
I can't express how happy I am that the future is coming sooner that expected.
Good Guy Google!
|
This is humanity at it's finest.
|
|
|
I like Google, I think they are a cool company. I wonder if I will like them 50 years from now when we have Google Governments :-)
|
Part of me thinks this is cool and useful. The other part of me thinks that this just gives more data and reach for the NSA
|
Google continuing to be on the cutting edge of technology and change in the world. While this obviously isn't completely altruistic, I think the benefits greatly outweigh the harms and Google should be commended for doing this.
Also the video is amazingly well done.
|
I, for one, welcome our new Google overlord.
Houston we have a problem.
Fuck New Zealand! Hobbitses I'm coming!
|
|
|
So this is basically just a low cost almost-satellite network? Which is still pretty cool.
|
Ok, did some research, found this:
http://gadgets.ndtv.com/internet/news/project-loon-7-things-to-know-about-google-internet-beaming-balloons-379890
1. The helium-filled balloons are made from a thin polyethylene film and are 15 meters (49 feet) in diameter when fully inflated.
2. They float in the stratosphere about 20 kilometers (12 miles) above the Earth.
3. The balloons would sail on the stratosphere's winds in a continuous circuit around the globe. The balloons come equipped with flight computers, and Google would control the balloons' altitude from the ground, keeping them moving along a desired channel by using different winds at different heights.
4. Google says past attempts to control balloons have involved tethering them or using expensive motors to keep them in place. They say simply sailing with the winds was one of the company's breakthrough ideas.
5. Google says the balloons have the potential to provide Internet access far more cheaply, quickly and widely than traditional underground fiber cables. One downside is that computer users on the ground would need to install a receiver to get the signal.
6. The transmitter on each balloon would beam down the Internet to an area about 1,250 square kilometers (780 square miles) - twice the size of New York City.
7. Managing the flight of just one balloon in our complex and ever-changing atmosphere is a huge challenge. Trying to harmonize an entire fleet of thousands of them will be mind-boggling.
|
On June 15 2013 18:25 semantics wrote:
So this is basically just a low cost almost-satellite network? Which is still pretty cool.
Yeah that's exactly what i was thinking.
Not that original then when you think about it, but still pretty cool.
I don't think it will see extensive and widespread use tbh. I doubt google is doing this for altruistic motives or to get people connected for monetary gain. This is just pr.
|
I hope that it will be somehow possible to gain access to the network simply by a metal rod and any electronic device. It would be so nice for the North Koreans to gain access to, say, Korean Wikipedia.
|
Lalalaland34486 Posts
This is pretty darn cool. Have they said anything about what speeds they will be able to offer?
|
I don´t really know what to say about this. Did they already talked about how many balloons will be floating up there?
|
o This is realy nice if they manage to make this work
6. The transmitter on each balloon would beam down the Internet to an area about 1,250 square kilometers (780 square miles) - twice the size of New York City.
Then they will need a ton of baloons lol, like 1 million to cover the entire earth?
Not sure this is realistic, a baloon in the air every 30-40 km.
Wouldnt it be cheaper to just make ground stations with big antenna?
|
skynet!
see the thing is you don't need to provide all the access all the time.
People will be happy if for 1 hour in a week they get to use the internet. That alone is very powerful already.
|
had to check the date to make sure i wasnt back in april.
|
On June 15 2013 18:48 Rassy wrote:
o This is realy nice if they manage to make this work
6. The transmitter on each balloon would beam down the Internet to an area about 1,250 square kilometers (780 square miles) - twice the size of New York City.
Then they will need a ton of baloons lol, like 1 million to cover the entire earth?
Not sure this is realistic, a baloon in the air every 30-40 km.
Wouldnt it be cheaper to just make ground stations with big antenna?
Antennas are costly from a land battle stand point especially large ones. Number one problem Cellphone providers have in populated area's is that they want to erect larger or put more antennas up but residents don't like them because they think they are ugly or think they cause cancer etc. So everyone just complains that cellphone service is shitty. Not really sure who controls the stratosphere as that's above weather and plane travel.
|
On June 15 2013 18:15 either I or wrote:
I, for one, welcome our new Google overlord.
Houston we have a problem.
Fuck New Zealand! Hobbitses I'm coming!
looks like my country has become a mythical land filled with creatures that dont actually exist
|
On June 15 2013 18:48 Rassy wrote:
o This is realy nice if they manage to make this work
6. The transmitter on each balloon would beam down the Internet to an area about 1,250 square kilometers (780 square miles) - twice the size of New York City.
Then they will need a ton of baloons lol, like 1 million to cover the entire earth?
Not sure this is realistic, a baloon in the air every 30-40 km.
Wouldnt it be cheaper to just make ground stations with big antenna?
They already have millions of servers. Make sure your brain is set to "realistic" in the sense of what a billions of dollars company can accomplish and not just in the sense of what can I tool around with in my garage. That's not to say I know they'll succeed, but if they're trying they probably did their homework on feasibility.
|
On June 15 2013 20:12 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 18:48 Rassy wrote:
o This is realy nice if they manage to make this work
6. The transmitter on each balloon would beam down the Internet to an area about 1,250 square kilometers (780 square miles) - twice the size of New York City.
Then they will need a ton of baloons lol, like 1 million to cover the entire earth?
Not sure this is realistic, a baloon in the air every 30-40 km.
Wouldnt it be cheaper to just make ground stations with big antenna? They already have millions of servers. Make sure your brain is set to "realistic" in the sense of what a billions of dollars company can accomplish and not just in the sense of what can I tool around with in my garage. That's not to say I know they'll succeed, but if they're trying they probably did their homework on feasibility.
Or this is just pr. It is the perfect combo of altruism + technology + cute/out there solution + doesn't seem feasible in the long run. They know it's gonna turn heads.
Yeah im sure it is something they kinda want to do but i don't think they are really in it to provide stable internet to all of africa and asia.
|
On June 15 2013 20:21 skyrunner wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 20:12 oBlade wrote:On June 15 2013 18:48 Rassy wrote:
o This is realy nice if they manage to make this work
6. The transmitter on each balloon would beam down the Internet to an area about 1,250 square kilometers (780 square miles) - twice the size of New York City.
Then they will need a ton of baloons lol, like 1 million to cover the entire earth?
Not sure this is realistic, a baloon in the air every 30-40 km.
Wouldnt it be cheaper to just make ground stations with big antenna? They already have millions of servers. Make sure your brain is set to "realistic" in the sense of what a billions of dollars company can accomplish and not just in the sense of what can I tool around with in my garage. That's not to say I know they'll succeed, but if they're trying they probably did their homework on feasibility. Or this is just pr. It is the perfect combo of altruism + technology + cute/out there solution + doesn't seem feasible in the long run. They know it's gonna turn heads. Yeah im sure it is something they kinda want to do but i don't think they are really in it to provide stable internet to all of africa and asia.
Except they have spent millions on this alerady, and will be spending a few millions more.
|
On June 15 2013 20:23 Man with a Plan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 20:21 skyrunner wrote:On June 15 2013 20:12 oBlade wrote:On June 15 2013 18:48 Rassy wrote:
o This is realy nice if they manage to make this work
6. The transmitter on each balloon would beam down the Internet to an area about 1,250 square kilometers (780 square miles) - twice the size of New York City.
Then they will need a ton of baloons lol, like 1 million to cover the entire earth?
Not sure this is realistic, a baloon in the air every 30-40 km.
Wouldnt it be cheaper to just make ground stations with big antenna? They already have millions of servers. Make sure your brain is set to "realistic" in the sense of what a billions of dollars company can accomplish and not just in the sense of what can I tool around with in my garage. That's not to say I know they'll succeed, but if they're trying they probably did their homework on feasibility. Or this is just pr. It is the perfect combo of altruism + technology + cute/out there solution + doesn't seem feasible in the long run. They know it's gonna turn heads. Yeah im sure it is something they kinda want to do but i don't think they are really in it to provide stable internet to all of africa and asia. Except they have spent millions on this alerady, and will be spending a few millions more.
Millions wouldn't make a dent in the budget they have for R&D/their own advertising.
I'm interested to see where it goes all the same.
|
I don't care about the politics and privacy stuff that people seem to be paranoid about these days, I just find this shit cool, if only for the technical aspect of it. Well played, Google.
On June 15 2013 20:21 skyrunner wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 20:12 oBlade wrote:On June 15 2013 18:48 Rassy wrote:
o This is realy nice if they manage to make this work
6. The transmitter on each balloon would beam down the Internet to an area about 1,250 square kilometers (780 square miles) - twice the size of New York City.
Then they will need a ton of baloons lol, like 1 million to cover the entire earth?
Not sure this is realistic, a baloon in the air every 30-40 km.
Wouldnt it be cheaper to just make ground stations with big antenna? They already have millions of servers. Make sure your brain is set to "realistic" in the sense of what a billions of dollars company can accomplish and not just in the sense of what can I tool around with in my garage. That's not to say I know they'll succeed, but if they're trying they probably did their homework on feasibility. Or this is just pr. It is the perfect combo of altruism + technology + cute/out there solution + doesn't seem feasible in the long run. They know it's gonna turn heads. Yeah im sure it is something they kinda want to do but i don't think they are really in it to provide stable internet to all of africa and asia.
Not a lot of Google products are "PR" though. Their shit just works and is generally pretty useful and innovative. The definition of a good product.
|
So....anyone think this is a prelude to this when they were read about the project?
|
9070 Posts
next stop is implementing the technology in cell phones so they can receive the signal and we can wave goodbye to all telecoms around the world (which are already dying anyway)
|
On June 15 2013 21:55 disciple wrote:
next stop is implementing the technology in cell phones so they can receive the signal and we can wave goodbye to all telecoms around the world (which are already dying anyway)
and say hello to the only telecom....google >.>
|
9070 Posts
|
Global supply of helium is not very high, so I don't see this being sustainable nor very cheap.
Plus, if they plan to fly the balloons in the south hemisphere, wouldn't it mean that most of the time they will cover unhabited places of the Pacific/Atlantic/Indian Ocean?
On June 15 2013 21:55 disciple wrote:
next stop is implementing the technology in cell phones so they can receive the signal and we can wave goodbye to all telecoms around the world (which are already dying anyway)
Telecoms dying? Many poeple I know pay like 50$ a month to use their smartphone, so I don't think it's "dying".
|
On June 15 2013 18:48 Rassy wrote:
o This is realy nice if they manage to make this work
6. The transmitter on each balloon would beam down the Internet to an area about 1,250 square kilometers (780 square miles) - twice the size of New York City.
Then they will need a ton of baloons lol, like 1 million to cover the entire earth?
Not sure this is realistic, a baloon in the air every 30-40 km.
Wouldnt it be cheaper to just make ground stations with big antenna?
- A large part of Earth is made of water we do not care about.
- It's designed for areas where you can't build said stations. Stations also need employees for maintenance.You also have less problems with setting them up in other countries space.
|
How many balloons would they need for global internet coverage?
|
On June 15 2013 23:03 Orangered wrote:
How many balloons would they need for global internet coverage?
Earth is ~510,072,000 km2, with land covering ~148,940,000 km2 (29.2%).
148,940,000 km2/1250 km2 = ~119152 for total, constant coverage.
|
Sounds Utopian, but I think its cool. I just hope Google does not become Skynet!
|
Google X is like the spiritual successor to Bell Labs. This is some seriously crazy shit lol.
|
On June 15 2013 20:26 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 20:23 Man with a Plan wrote:On June 15 2013 20:21 skyrunner wrote:On June 15 2013 20:12 oBlade wrote:On June 15 2013 18:48 Rassy wrote:
o This is realy nice if they manage to make this work
6. The transmitter on each balloon would beam down the Internet to an area about 1,250 square kilometers (780 square miles) - twice the size of New York City.
Then they will need a ton of baloons lol, like 1 million to cover the entire earth?
Not sure this is realistic, a baloon in the air every 30-40 km.
Wouldnt it be cheaper to just make ground stations with big antenna? They already have millions of servers. Make sure your brain is set to "realistic" in the sense of what a billions of dollars company can accomplish and not just in the sense of what can I tool around with in my garage. That's not to say I know they'll succeed, but if they're trying they probably did their homework on feasibility. Or this is just pr. It is the perfect combo of altruism + technology + cute/out there solution + doesn't seem feasible in the long run. They know it's gonna turn heads. Yeah im sure it is something they kinda want to do but i don't think they are really in it to provide stable internet to all of africa and asia. Except they have spent millions on this alerady, and will be spending a few millions more. Millions wouldn't make a dent in the budget they have for R&D/their own advertising. I'm interested to see where it goes all the same.
A large deal of Google's projects aren't so much about changing the world solo, but being disruptive and spurring changes from other existing companies.
Take the Google Fibre project. They're not trying to provide internet to all of USA, they're trying to create competition in a sector that's essentially a monopoly for a select few companies.
The general idea is that if this works, and it works well, Google won't be the only ones making this happen.
|
I've been in a cynical mood lately (about everything), but this project put a smile on my face.
|
On June 15 2013 22:51 Leafty wrote:Global supply of helium is not very high, so I don't see this being sustainable nor very cheap. Plus, if they plan to fly the balloons in the south hemisphere, wouldn't it mean that most of the time they will cover unhabited places of the Pacific/Atlantic/Indian Ocean? Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 21:55 disciple wrote:
next stop is implementing the technology in cell phones so they can receive the signal and we can wave goodbye to all telecoms around the world (which are already dying anyway) Telecoms dying? Many poeple I know pay like 50$ a month to use their smartphone, so I don't think it's "dying".
People are still using Telecoms, but the technology to replace them is here. Imagine if you get free internet. Most people use Facebook or Twitter rather than SMS, and i doubt that it'll take long before people use skype anyway.
|
On June 15 2013 22:51 Leafty wrote:Global supply of helium is not very high, so I don't see this being sustainable nor very cheap. Plus, if they plan to fly the balloons in the south hemisphere, wouldn't it mean that most of the time they will cover unhabited places of the Pacific/Atlantic/Indian Ocean? Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 21:55 disciple wrote:
next stop is implementing the technology in cell phones so they can receive the signal and we can wave goodbye to all telecoms around the world (which are already dying anyway) Telecoms dying? Many poeple I know pay like 50$ a month to use their smartphone, so I don't think it's "dying".
yeah this is a very good point - there's no way this is sustainable if these are helium balloons. Even advanced scientific research is hurting for lack of helium right now. Google's gonna need to think of something other than helium to put in here if they want this to keep going more than a few years, maybe hot air? Or if these balloons are relatively cheap maybe they could fill them with hydrogen instead and just accept that some percentage will explode, that's the best thing I can think of atm.
|
On June 16 2013 03:30 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 22:51 Leafty wrote:Global supply of helium is not very high, so I don't see this being sustainable nor very cheap. Plus, if they plan to fly the balloons in the south hemisphere, wouldn't it mean that most of the time they will cover unhabited places of the Pacific/Atlantic/Indian Ocean? On June 15 2013 21:55 disciple wrote:
next stop is implementing the technology in cell phones so they can receive the signal and we can wave goodbye to all telecoms around the world (which are already dying anyway) Telecoms dying? Many poeple I know pay like 50$ a month to use their smartphone, so I don't think it's "dying". yeah this is a very good point - there's no way this is sustainable if these are helium balloons. Even advanced scientific research is hurting for lack of helium right now. Google's gonna need to think of something other than helium to put in here if they want this to keep going more than a few years, maybe hot air? Or if these balloons are relatively cheap maybe they could fill them with hydrogen instead and just accept that some percentage will explode, that's the best thing I can think of atm.
That sounds like the making for an excellent bit of dystopic fiction: in a world in which exploding balloons bring internet to the masses, a young boy with a latex allergy and a destiny bound for greatness is born.
|
It's a fun idea/good PR stunt, but it doesn't solve the basic problem with providing internet in the underdeveloped world anyway. Yes, national infrastructure is problematic, but most african nations have pretty decent cellphone coverage in population centers and those are capable of delivering internet connectivity. The real issue is the lack of bandwidth connecting them to the rest of the world. This doesn't do anything to change that.
|
No one will believe me, but my girlfriend and a team of interns for Google thought of this idea (involving a Blimp and offering Wi-Fi) about two years ago in London. She ended up winning an Android phone and some other varieties.
They called the project 'Sky-High' and I've seen the slides and everything! Pretty cool to see this actually become realized :B
|
Any word on how weather effects the service, and what the bit-rate is for the service?
Also what stops an individual from hacking these and then landing them somewhere for themselves to recover?
|
On June 16 2013 03:28 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 22:51 Leafty wrote:Global supply of helium is not very high, so I don't see this being sustainable nor very cheap. Plus, if they plan to fly the balloons in the south hemisphere, wouldn't it mean that most of the time they will cover unhabited places of the Pacific/Atlantic/Indian Ocean? On June 15 2013 21:55 disciple wrote:
next stop is implementing the technology in cell phones so they can receive the signal and we can wave goodbye to all telecoms around the world (which are already dying anyway) Telecoms dying? Many poeple I know pay like 50$ a month to use their smartphone, so I don't think it's "dying". People are still using Telecoms, but the technology to replace them is here. Imagine if you get free internet. Most people use Facebook or Twitter rather than SMS, and i doubt that it'll take long before people use skype anyway.
Free internet? How? Using telepathy?
At the end of the day it's still telecommunications. You use Facebook or Skype to chat with your friends rather than the phone, but the internet still has to get there down to your phone/tablet. And that is not going to be free.
If Google operates balloons over your head to bring you internet you'll have to pay them for the service.
By the way, if they say it can cover an area as big as NY, it is absolutely impossible to handle the associated bandwidth, so it is designed to support low density places.
On June 16 2013 04:00 DonKey_ wrote:
Any word on how weather effects the service, and what the bit-rate is for the service?
Also what stops an individual from hacking these and then landing them somewhere for themselves to recover?
If the security is like your standard router, it's not so bad since physical access is quite hard to achieve.
|
Pretty sure the Zergs have been using a similar overlord balloon technology to bring in view from all around the world too.
|
Google government, still won't accuse everyone of terrorist activity. Vote for google, it's a vote for slightly more freedom.
Google: Has access to everyone's information, helps you hide it from your loved ones.
|
On June 16 2013 04:37 Like a Boss wrote:
Pretty sure the Zergs have been using a similar overlord balloon technology to bring in view from all around the world too.
So true lol
|
On June 16 2013 04:44 yOngKIN wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 04:37 Like a Boss wrote:
Pretty sure the Zergs have been using a similar overlord balloon technology to bring in view from all around the world too. So true lol
Tomorrow's internet:
- What's new on TL?
- 'Spawn more overloons'
|
Am I the only one worried that those balloons could end up colliding with planes ? I mean it's not like it was easy to control everything up there, and if a ballon gets sucked in jet streams used by civil aviation this would be a disaster ...
|
On June 16 2013 04:51 uZr wrote:
Am I the only one worried that those balloons could end up colliding with planes ? I mean it's not like it was easy to control everything up there, and if a ballon gets sucked in jet streams used by civil aviation this would be a disaster ...
Won't happen:
Project Loon balloons float in the stratosphere, twice as high as airplanes and the weather. They are carried around the Earth by winds and they can be steered by rising or descending to an altitude with winds moving in the desired direction. People connect to the balloon network using a special Internet antenna attached to their building. The signal bounces from balloon to balloon, then to the global Internet back on Earth.
|
Half the people wondering about weather or flights really need to start watching the videos posted in the OP and not just asking questions without doing any research. You all, equally, piss me off for your incompetence.
These are pretty cool, google proving why I have so much faith in them once again.
|
On June 16 2013 05:12 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 04:51 uZr wrote:
Am I the only one worried that those balloons could end up colliding with planes ? I mean it's not like it was easy to control everything up there, and if a ballon gets sucked in jet streams used by civil aviation this would be a disaster ... Won't happen: Show nested quote +Project Loon balloons float in the stratosphere, twice as high as airplanes and the weather. They are carried around the Earth by winds and they can be steered by rising or descending to an altitude with winds moving in the desired direction. People connect to the balloon network using a special Internet antenna attached to their building. The signal bounces from balloon to balloon, then to the global Internet back on Earth.
People should watch the videos xD
under 10km from the surface about is where the weathers, planes and mountains occupy the sky. The balloons will be at around 20km. Far from hitting objects, below obstructing satellites and quite far from being hit or physically hacked by terrorists.
Obviously this will spark a lot of debate from the recent events of PRISM and what not. That and Google is known to record data.
But right now this is pretty damn awesome. If the resources were not limited, information could flow through otherwise impossible oppressed states. This will make society more efficient and faster. We would be more connected (although this can be seen both ways). All in all I welcome this and hope this goes far.
|
On June 16 2013 05:27 Hitch-22 wrote:
Half the people wondering about weather or flights really need to start watching the videos posted in the OP and not just asking questions without doing any research. You all, equally, piss me off for your incompetence.
These are pretty cool, google proving why I have so much faith in them once again.
Ya I know the balloons will be 20km up in the stratosphere and won't be affected by weather. I was more curious about the signals quality when it has to travel through storm systems.
On June 16 2013 04:14 Leafty wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 04:00 DonKey_ wrote:
Any word on how weather effects the service, and what the bit-rate is for the service?
Also what stops an individual from hacking these and then landing them somewhere for themselves to recover? If the security is like your standard router, it's not so bad since physical access is quite hard to achieve.
As far as hacking goes, the process goes quite a bit over my head, I admit.
Would it not be possible to hack these devices without physical tampering though? I just am reminded of how Iran took a US military UAV out of the sky before. Not saying it will be terrorists or rogue administrations that do not want these passing over their "airspace", but the opportunity seems to be there, even for someone with just a curiosity.
|
On June 16 2013 05:34 DonKey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 05:27 Hitch-22 wrote:
Half the people wondering about weather or flights really need to start watching the videos posted in the OP and not just asking questions without doing any research. You all, equally, piss me off for your incompetence.
These are pretty cool, google proving why I have so much faith in them once again. Ya I know the balloons will be 20km up in the stratosphere and won't be affected by weather. I was more curious about the signals quality when it has to travel through storm systems. Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 04:14 Leafty wrote:On June 16 2013 04:00 DonKey_ wrote:
Any word on how weather effects the service, and what the bit-rate is for the service?
Also what stops an individual from hacking these and then landing them somewhere for themselves to recover? If the security is like your standard router, it's not so bad since physical access is quite hard to achieve. As far as hacking goes, the process goes quite a bit over my head, I admit. Would it not be possible to hack these devices without physical tampering though? I just am reminded of how Iran took a US military UAV out of the sky before. Not saying it will be terrorists or rogue administrations that do not want these passing over their "airspace", but the opportunity seems to be there, even for someone with just a curiosity.
The UAV incident is a bit different because that was more of a spoofing attack. Iran jammed the UAVs GPS/satellite essentially and because the UAV was "lost" it took in Iran's false coordinates package and landed itself into the ground.
For this scenario, the only access or damage terrorists could do is if they targeted the stations that are being fed off of the balloons which would be effective in ushering in a black out. But as for information leakage I am confident in Google installing some sort of protocols in the event the station is attacked. They can't jam the balloons since they run off of wind. The only thing jamming the balloons would do is the control center at Google corp would lose signal to that balloon(s).
Now they could try to intercept the signal and hijack it and what not but I doubt the encryption will be very easy to crack. I am also sure Google will know that someone is trying to illegally access the balloon's data just by looking at the packets sent and received by the station and how many are missing.
|
On June 16 2013 03:47 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 03:30 strongandbig wrote:On June 15 2013 22:51 Leafty wrote:Global supply of helium is not very high, so I don't see this being sustainable nor very cheap. Plus, if they plan to fly the balloons in the south hemisphere, wouldn't it mean that most of the time they will cover unhabited places of the Pacific/Atlantic/Indian Ocean? On June 15 2013 21:55 disciple wrote:
next stop is implementing the technology in cell phones so they can receive the signal and we can wave goodbye to all telecoms around the world (which are already dying anyway) Telecoms dying? Many poeple I know pay like 50$ a month to use their smartphone, so I don't think it's "dying". yeah this is a very good point - there's no way this is sustainable if these are helium balloons. Even advanced scientific research is hurting for lack of helium right now. Google's gonna need to think of something other than helium to put in here if they want this to keep going more than a few years, maybe hot air? Or if these balloons are relatively cheap maybe they could fill them with hydrogen instead and just accept that some percentage will explode, that's the best thing I can think of atm. That sounds like the making for an excellent bit of dystopic fiction: in a world in which exploding balloons bring internet to the masses, a young boy with a latex allergy and a destiny bound for greatness is born.
First time i've really loled in front of a computer for a while.
|
On June 16 2013 06:14 heroyi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 05:34 DonKey_ wrote:On June 16 2013 05:27 Hitch-22 wrote:
Half the people wondering about weather or flights really need to start watching the videos posted in the OP and not just asking questions without doing any research. You all, equally, piss me off for your incompetence.
These are pretty cool, google proving why I have so much faith in them once again. Ya I know the balloons will be 20km up in the stratosphere and won't be affected by weather. I was more curious about the signals quality when it has to travel through storm systems. On June 16 2013 04:14 Leafty wrote:On June 16 2013 04:00 DonKey_ wrote:
Any word on how weather effects the service, and what the bit-rate is for the service?
Also what stops an individual from hacking these and then landing them somewhere for themselves to recover? If the security is like your standard router, it's not so bad since physical access is quite hard to achieve. As far as hacking goes, the process goes quite a bit over my head, I admit. Would it not be possible to hack these devices without physical tampering though? I just am reminded of how Iran took a US military UAV out of the sky before. Not saying it will be terrorists or rogue administrations that do not want these passing over their "airspace", but the opportunity seems to be there, even for someone with just a curiosity. The UAV incident is a bit different because that was more of a spoofing attack. Iran jammed the UAVs GPS/satellite essentially and because the UAV was "lost" it took in Iran's false coordinates package and landed itself into the ground. For this scenario, the only access or damage terrorists could do is if they targeted the stations that are being fed off of the balloons which would be effective in ushering in a black out. But as for information leakage I am confident in Google installing some sort of protocols in the event the station is attacked. They can't jam the balloons since they run off of wind. The only thing jamming the balloons would do is the control center at Google corp would lose signal to that balloon(s). Now they could try to intercept the signal and hijack it and what not but I doubt the encryption will be very easy to crack. I am also sure Google will know that someone is trying to illegally access the balloon's data just by looking at the packets sent and received by the station and how many are missing.
Counting packets in a wireless long-distance mesh... No. Packets are dropped all the time in this kind of setup. There is no security on the Internet, if you want it, use TLS.
If they secure the control flows, it should be OK.
|
On June 16 2013 03:30 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 22:51 Leafty wrote:Global supply of helium is not very high, so I don't see this being sustainable nor very cheap. Plus, if they plan to fly the balloons in the south hemisphere, wouldn't it mean that most of the time they will cover unhabited places of the Pacific/Atlantic/Indian Ocean? On June 15 2013 21:55 disciple wrote:
next stop is implementing the technology in cell phones so they can receive the signal and we can wave goodbye to all telecoms around the world (which are already dying anyway) Telecoms dying? Many poeple I know pay like 50$ a month to use their smartphone, so I don't think it's "dying". yeah this is a very good point - there's no way this is sustainable if these are helium balloons. Even advanced scientific research is hurting for lack of helium right now. Google's gonna need to think of something other than helium to put in here if they want this to keep going more than a few years, maybe hot air? Or if these balloons are relatively cheap maybe they could fill them with hydrogen instead and just accept that some percentage will explode, that's the best thing I can think of atm.
I noticed that the balloons are transparent, so perhaps they function as greenhouses? If so, then the sunlight would heat up whatever gas is inside the balloon and trap the heat, so that the uplift from the hotter air inside the balloon would keep the entire balloon up. The stratosphere doesn't have that much clouds, so balloons shouldn't be trapped inside clouds too often, and perhaps the solar panels will be able to charge some battery which powers a heating devide to keep the air inside them hot if they get lost inside a cloud (or at nighttime, I guess). What I'm trying to say is that it may not be necessary to fill them with helium, perhaps regular air or a mixture of other light gases would suffice. This is all just guesswork on my part, though.
Or perhaps Google will announce that they'll set up a base on the moon within the next year to mine He3 for all their balloons 
|
On June 16 2013 03:30 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 22:51 Leafty wrote:Global supply of helium is not very high, so I don't see this being sustainable nor very cheap. Plus, if they plan to fly the balloons in the south hemisphere, wouldn't it mean that most of the time they will cover unhabited places of the Pacific/Atlantic/Indian Ocean? On June 15 2013 21:55 disciple wrote:
next stop is implementing the technology in cell phones so they can receive the signal and we can wave goodbye to all telecoms around the world (which are already dying anyway) Telecoms dying? Many poeple I know pay like 50$ a month to use their smartphone, so I don't think it's "dying". yeah this is a very good point - there's no way this is sustainable if these are helium balloons. Even advanced scientific research is hurting for lack of helium right now. Google's gonna need to think of something other than helium to put in here if they want this to keep going more than a few years, maybe hot air? Or if these balloons are relatively cheap maybe they could fill them with hydrogen instead and just accept that some percentage will explode, that's the best thing I can think of atm.
If one explodes then the balloon would hit whatever is on the ground near where it explodes at terminal velocity. I don't know how big these balloons are (haven't watched the vids yet) but if a penny dropped from the empire state building can kill someone, you can bet these balloons could. They would obviously require some electrical component capable of handling the internet needs of many people, and that equipment isn't light. With thousands of hydrogen balloons floating in the sky, it could be a nightmare in terms of safety. Even if the odds of hitting a person could be low, there could be substantial damage to buildings.
|
On June 16 2013 08:50 Chocolate wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 03:30 strongandbig wrote:On June 15 2013 22:51 Leafty wrote:Global supply of helium is not very high, so I don't see this being sustainable nor very cheap. Plus, if they plan to fly the balloons in the south hemisphere, wouldn't it mean that most of the time they will cover unhabited places of the Pacific/Atlantic/Indian Ocean? On June 15 2013 21:55 disciple wrote:
next stop is implementing the technology in cell phones so they can receive the signal and we can wave goodbye to all telecoms around the world (which are already dying anyway) Telecoms dying? Many poeple I know pay like 50$ a month to use their smartphone, so I don't think it's "dying". yeah this is a very good point - there's no way this is sustainable if these are helium balloons. Even advanced scientific research is hurting for lack of helium right now. Google's gonna need to think of something other than helium to put in here if they want this to keep going more than a few years, maybe hot air? Or if these balloons are relatively cheap maybe they could fill them with hydrogen instead and just accept that some percentage will explode, that's the best thing I can think of atm. If one explodes then the balloon would hit whatever is on the ground near where it explodes at terminal velocity. I don't know how big these balloons are (haven't watched the vids yet) but if a penny dropped from the empire state building can kill someone, you can bet these balloons could. They would obviously require some electrical component capable of handling the internet needs of many people, and that equipment isn't light. With thousands of hydrogen balloons floating in the sky, it could be a nightmare in terms of safety. Even if the odds of hitting a person could be low, there could be substantial damage to buildings.
Was busted by mythbusters in 2003:
Firing a penny at terminal velocity (65 miles per hour (105 km/h)) into concrete and asphalt disks and a ballistics gel head with a human skull failed to result in any penetrations, likely because the speed is too low and a penny's mass too small. Even when fired from a rifle, the penny was unable to penetrate concrete or a ballistic gel dummy's skull. Even modifying a rifle to shoot a penny at supersonic speeds failed to cause a penetration. In comparison, a real 6.5mm bullet split the dummy skull. Visiting the Empire State Building, the likely source of the myth, they realize that updrafts and roofs of lower floors would prevent a thrown penny from reaching street level.
|
On June 16 2013 08:31 iMAniaC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 03:30 strongandbig wrote:On June 15 2013 22:51 Leafty wrote:Global supply of helium is not very high, so I don't see this being sustainable nor very cheap. Plus, if they plan to fly the balloons in the south hemisphere, wouldn't it mean that most of the time they will cover unhabited places of the Pacific/Atlantic/Indian Ocean? On June 15 2013 21:55 disciple wrote:
next stop is implementing the technology in cell phones so they can receive the signal and we can wave goodbye to all telecoms around the world (which are already dying anyway) Telecoms dying? Many poeple I know pay like 50$ a month to use their smartphone, so I don't think it's "dying". yeah this is a very good point - there's no way this is sustainable if these are helium balloons. Even advanced scientific research is hurting for lack of helium right now. Google's gonna need to think of something other than helium to put in here if they want this to keep going more than a few years, maybe hot air? Or if these balloons are relatively cheap maybe they could fill them with hydrogen instead and just accept that some percentage will explode, that's the best thing I can think of atm. I noticed that the balloons are transparent, so perhaps they function as greenhouses? If so, then the sunlight would heat up whatever gas is inside the balloon and trap the heat, so that the uplift from the hotter air inside the balloon would keep the entire balloon up. The stratosphere doesn't have that much clouds, so balloons shouldn't be trapped inside clouds too often, and perhaps the solar panels will be able to charge some battery which powers a heating devide to keep the air inside them hot if they get lost inside a cloud (or at nighttime, I guess). What I'm trying to say is that it may not be necessary to fill them with helium, perhaps regular air or a mixture of other light gases would suffice. This is all just guesswork on my part, though. Or perhaps Google will announce that they'll set up a base on the moon within the next year to mine He3 for all their balloons
I learned something about helium today
Helium-3 is made up of two protons and one neutron and the isotope is rarely found in nature, although it is produced as a decay product of tritium, a component of nuclear weapons. During the cold war, the US, Russia and other countries stockpiled tens of thousands of nuclear weapons, and in doing so accumulated vast amounts of helium-3. Initially, this resource was barely tapped - in fact the National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) and its predecessor agencies, which have maintained the US tritium stockpile, used to consider the gas so useless that they vented it into the atmosphere. In the 1980s, however, scientists began to realise the potential of helium-3 as a neutron detector.
http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2012/January/helium-3-isotopes-shortage-alternatives-neutron-detectors.asp
Loon is clearly a byproduct of Google's plans for world domination
|
On June 16 2013 04:37 Like a Boss wrote:
Pretty sure the Zergs have been using a similar overlord balloon technology to bring in view from all around the world too.
Yea, zerg's have had their wireless balloon shaped network hubs functional for a millennium already...
|
This is pretty sick. When does Google ever do something bad? I never hear of it. Google!!!
P.S. Don't tell me the bad stuff Google does. I only want to know good things about them.
|
On June 16 2013 11:33 RiceAgainst wrote:
This is pretty sick. When does Google ever do something bad? I never hear of it. Google!!!
P.S. Don't tell me the bad stuff Google does. I only want to know good things about them.
They know almost everything about you based on you online activities. While it will suggest to me Lebron James posterizes Duncan when I search "rim", it might suggest something of the NSFW thing for you using the same keyword. :p
|
I love the overlord references =P
|
They're not going to be overlords once the NSA gets ahold of them. They'll be overseers.
|
On June 16 2013 10:39 Flakes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 08:31 iMAniaC wrote:On June 16 2013 03:30 strongandbig wrote:On June 15 2013 22:51 Leafty wrote:Global supply of helium is not very high, so I don't see this being sustainable nor very cheap. Plus, if they plan to fly the balloons in the south hemisphere, wouldn't it mean that most of the time they will cover unhabited places of the Pacific/Atlantic/Indian Ocean? On June 15 2013 21:55 disciple wrote:
next stop is implementing the technology in cell phones so they can receive the signal and we can wave goodbye to all telecoms around the world (which are already dying anyway) Telecoms dying? Many poeple I know pay like 50$ a month to use their smartphone, so I don't think it's "dying". yeah this is a very good point - there's no way this is sustainable if these are helium balloons. Even advanced scientific research is hurting for lack of helium right now. Google's gonna need to think of something other than helium to put in here if they want this to keep going more than a few years, maybe hot air? Or if these balloons are relatively cheap maybe they could fill them with hydrogen instead and just accept that some percentage will explode, that's the best thing I can think of atm. I noticed that the balloons are transparent, so perhaps they function as greenhouses? If so, then the sunlight would heat up whatever gas is inside the balloon and trap the heat, so that the uplift from the hotter air inside the balloon would keep the entire balloon up. The stratosphere doesn't have that much clouds, so balloons shouldn't be trapped inside clouds too often, and perhaps the solar panels will be able to charge some battery which powers a heating devide to keep the air inside them hot if they get lost inside a cloud (or at nighttime, I guess). What I'm trying to say is that it may not be necessary to fill them with helium, perhaps regular air or a mixture of other light gases would suffice. This is all just guesswork on my part, though. Or perhaps Google will announce that they'll set up a base on the moon within the next year to mine He3 for all their balloons I learned something about helium today Show nested quote +
Helium-3 is made up of two protons and one neutron and the isotope is rarely found in nature, although it is produced as a decay product of tritium, a component of nuclear weapons. During the cold war, the US, Russia and other countries stockpiled tens of thousands of nuclear weapons, and in doing so accumulated vast amounts of helium-3. Initially, this resource was barely tapped - in fact the National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) and its predecessor agencies, which have maintained the US tritium stockpile, used to consider the gas so useless that they vented it into the atmosphere. In the 1980s, however, scientists began to realise the potential of helium-3 as a neutron detector.
http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2012/January/helium-3-isotopes-shortage-alternatives-neutron-detectors.aspLoon is clearly a byproduct of Google's plans for world domination
I hope you note that He4 is used in balloons.
|
On June 15 2013 21:55 disciple wrote:
next stop is implementing the technology in cell phones so they can receive the signal and we can wave goodbye to all telecoms around the world (which are already dying anyway)
How are telecoms dying, in countries just starting to receive wide adoption of cell phones (and especially 3g) its probably one of the fastest growing industries. Also even in the west, many people will still be switching from feature phones to smart phones over the next few years which = more money for telecoms as those consumers start to pay for LTE/4g services.
My dad who used to be in commercial real estate decided one day he'd prefer to apply his skills to a different field instead of the ups and downs of commercial real estate. He went to work for rogers (biggest telecom company in canada) he acquires land rights for towers and rooftops all over western canada, when he first started (over 15 years ago) i always thought , well eventually rogers will have enough towers to cover everything and my fathers services wouldnt be needed anymore , he kind of thought the same thing, wondering what would happen when they had cell phone service for all of western canada. Then 3g internet came along, he was twice as busy, then LTE came along even busier still, just from the mass expansion and technological upgrades its amazing to see how much the industry has grown over the past fifteen years, even through the perspective of a former commercial real estate agent, we now know that no one will ever be covered completely.
|
On June 16 2013 15:57 Executor1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 21:55 disciple wrote:
next stop is implementing the technology in cell phones so they can receive the signal and we can wave goodbye to all telecoms around the world (which are already dying anyway) How are telecoms dying, in countries just starting to receive wide adoption of cell phones (and especially 3g) its probably one of the fastest growing industries. Also even in the west, many people will still be switching from feature phones to smart phones over the next few years which = more money for telecoms as those consumers start to pay for LTE/4g services.
I speculate, but with the aggressive push Google is doing, getting its fingers on a lot of pies (I dont know the exact American idiom lol), it will be a battle between local and regional telecom giants vs. the big G. And with access to internet being a greater power as it can also wipe out the need for telecom services, it is easy to see what will happen.
|
On June 16 2013 16:05 S:klogW wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 15:57 Executor1 wrote:On June 15 2013 21:55 disciple wrote:
next stop is implementing the technology in cell phones so they can receive the signal and we can wave goodbye to all telecoms around the world (which are already dying anyway) How are telecoms dying, in countries just starting to receive wide adoption of cell phones (and especially 3g) its probably one of the fastest growing industries. Also even in the west, many people will still be switching from feature phones to smart phones over the next few years which = more money for telecoms as those consumers start to pay for LTE/4g services. I speculate, but with the aggressive push Google is doing, getting its fingers on a lot of pies (I dont know the exact American idiom lol), it will be a battle between local and regional telecom giants vs. the big G. And with access to internet being a greater power as it can also wipe out the need for telecom services, it is easy to see what will happen.
I don't think Google can replace Tier 2/3 ISP networks and 3g/4g networks just by a clap of fingers. It tooks so many years and money to build these networks so there is no way they can come and say "Hey here is our new magnificent network capable of supporting the load of everyone on Earth." Don't forget that internet access IS a telecom service.
|
Any information on how what kind of speeds/ping users could have?
|
On June 16 2013 15:15 Infernal_dream wrote:
They're not going to be overlords once the NSA gets ahold of them. They'll be overseers.
Haha, so cynical, but I couldn't help but think the same thing what with current events and all.
|
Why not just use satellites?
|
On June 16 2013 19:05 paralleluniverse wrote:
Why not just use satellites?
Cost and space, there really is only so many places you can put satellites in orbit plus they are a large initial investment. The stratosphere isn't really occupied and if all you need is gas to get it up there it's alot cheaper then rockets.
|
On June 16 2013 14:29 electronic voyeur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 11:33 RiceAgainst wrote:
This is pretty sick. When does Google ever do something bad? I never hear of it. Google!!!
P.S. Don't tell me the bad stuff Google does. I only want to know good things about them. They know almost everything about you based on you online activities. While it will suggest to me Lebron James posterizes Duncan when I search "rim", it might suggest something of the NSFW thing for you using the same keyword. :p
How is that "bad" ? As I see it it's just a consequence of the way they work, and as far as I know they have just been using this information as a way to make money through ads, which allow them to do cool stuff and survive in a capitalist world.
I don't consider myself as a blind defender of google, but so far, I think they are doing alright considering the great power they have in their hands.
|
On June 16 2013 19:29 Cynry wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 14:29 electronic voyeur wrote:On June 16 2013 11:33 RiceAgainst wrote:
This is pretty sick. When does Google ever do something bad? I never hear of it. Google!!!
P.S. Don't tell me the bad stuff Google does. I only want to know good things about them. They know almost everything about you based on you online activities. While it will suggest to me Lebron James posterizes Duncan when I search "rim", it might suggest something of the NSFW thing for you using the same keyword. :p How is that "bad" ? As I see it it's just a consequence of the way they work, and as far as I know they have just been using this information as a way to make money through ads, which allow them to do cool stuff and survive in a capitalist world. I don't consider myself as a blind defender of google, but so far, I think they are doing alright considering the great power they have in their hands.
I am pretty sure especially in America that people who Google stuff like "Jihad, Communist manifesto, terrorism, how to make a bomb using everyday materials, conspiracy" are flagged more than those who Google "Pony tales, how to beat n00bz ezpz LoL, getting rid of acne 12 years old"
|
Surely relying on the whim of the weather is tremendously unreliable?
|
This was pretty funny, but since I've heard this was actually going to happen I got pretty excited, and am even more of a Google fanboy now. Let's hope this helps people who don't currently have any internet!
|
Is the pilot thing in NZ over yet? Anyone who was there? How was it?
|
On June 16 2013 21:14 Belisarius wrote:
Surely relying on the whim of the weather is tremendously unreliable?
"Weather" as we know it (clouds, rain, storms, etc) happens on the Troposphere, which has a 10/15km max height. Winds on the Stratosphere tend to be calmer and more stable.
+ Show Spoiler +
That being said, this feels more like PR stuff like an actual thing.
|
On June 16 2013 18:47 Warlock40 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 15:15 Infernal_dream wrote:
They're not going to be overlords once the NSA gets ahold of them. They'll be overseers. Haha, so cynical, but I couldn't help but think the same thing what with current events and all.
Well i'm also worried about this. I'm even more about the fact that, if this is as successful as Google claims it to be (which I doubt), a multinational corporation will have a monopoly over 2/3 of the world's information distribution channels.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ghwti4I.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://spark.ucar.edu/sites/default/files/images/large_image_for_image_content/troposphere_diagram_big.jpg)
