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On June 08 2013 00:39 Drowsy wrote:
Of course, but it's not as though male athletes are sexualized in a similar, though admittedly lesser, capacity. This does nothing to support the notion of a systematic patriarchal discriminatory society though. If anything, it demonstrates the much higher price we, in human societies, place on female sexuality vs male sexuality. Eggs are expensive and sperm is cheap, men are the disposable sex.
Wilt Chamberlain.
wat?
you just said males are sexualized in a lesser capacity and we place a higher price on female sexuality, but you don't think this has the potential to put men (the "judges" of physical appearance) in a relatively higher possition? or effect average women negatively?
I read that like: "we judge your looks harder and sexualize you more based on your sex, but its not sexist cause i find your sexuality valuable."
wat?
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After a certain point, railing against human nature isn't progressive, it is simply neurotic.
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I would only watch women sports for looks tbh, i see no reason to watch female hockey, football, etc.
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On June 08 2013 00:47 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 00:39 Drowsy wrote:
Of course, but it's not as though male athletes are sexualized in a similar, though admittedly lesser, capacity. This does nothing to support the notion of a systematic patriarchal discriminatory society though. If anything, it demonstrates the much higher price we, in human societies, place on female sexuality vs male sexuality. Eggs are expensive and sperm is cheap, men are the disposable sex.
Wilt Chamberlain. wat? you just said males are sexualized in a lesser capacity and we place a higher price on female sexuality, but you don't think this has the potential to put men (the "judges" of physical appearance) in a relatively higher possition? or effect average women negatively? I read that like: "we judge your looks harder and sexualize you more based on your sex, but its not sexist cause i find your sexuality valuable." wat?
A given women above an attractiveness threshold in any public arena will have far more capacity to exploit her sexuality for popularity, personal, and financial gain than a given man of the same attractiveness. That threshold is probably pretty damn low too. Yes, this sounds like a huge advantage to me. That's not to say it's not sexist, just sexism in the direction opposite to the one the jezebelers would like to believe.
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"It's okay, we might dismiss and demean you but since you're pretty you can get out of parking tickets."
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From the sports I follow (badminton/basketball) this isn't really the case. This might be mainly because I only watch Asian badminton so there's not western exposure to this, and from what I've seen of the wNBA it's not very interesting and britney griner isn't exactly the kind of person you want on magazine covers
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its simple. boys watch sports, girls don't. therefore, hot chicks are popular, and hot guys are not.
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On June 08 2013 00:58 saddaromma wrote:
its simple. boys watch sports, girls don't. therefore, hot chicks are popular, and hot guys are not.
This too... gotta consider the primary audience.
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On June 08 2013 00:54 Drowsy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 00:47 ComaDose wrote:On June 08 2013 00:39 Drowsy wrote:
Of course, but it's not as though male athletes are sexualized in a similar, though admittedly lesser, capacity. This does nothing to support the notion of a systematic patriarchal discriminatory society though. If anything, it demonstrates the much higher price we, in human societies, place on female sexuality vs male sexuality. Eggs are expensive and sperm is cheap, men are the disposable sex.
Wilt Chamberlain. wat? you just said males are sexualized in a lesser capacity and we place a higher price on female sexuality, but you don't think this has the potential to put men (the "judges" of physical appearance) in a relatively higher possition? or effect average women negatively? I read that like: "we judge your looks harder and sexualize you more based on your sex, but its not sexist cause i find your sexuality valuable." wat? A given women above an attractiveness threshold in any public arena will have far more capacity to exploit her sexuality for popularity, personal, and financial gain than a given man of the same attractiveness. Yes, this sounds like a huge advantage to me. That's not to say it's not sexist, just sexism in the direction opposite to the one the jezebelers would like to believe.
so you chalk up being objectified as a good thing for all women becuase attractive women are objectified in a good way? what if attrative women dont want to be objectified while they are hosting a board meeting or something? nvm like 80% of the average population that does suffer the negative effects of this judgement litterally everyday.
You cant say its okay to sexualize and objectify half the population of the planet becuase some women benifit from it im sorry thats just toooooo wrong.
How much harder is it for an ugly woman than an ugly man by your own logic? which group would you say is larger?
Do you honestly believe attractive women enjoy the majority of the attention they get in those public places?
EDIT:+ Show Spoiler +On June 08 2013 00:58 saddaromma wrote:
its simple. boys watch sports, girls don't. therefore, hot chicks are popular, and hot guys are not. omg get back in your time machine please
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United States24698 Posts
Men's sports are sexualized for men also:
proof
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Truely nothing hotter then WNBA
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On June 08 2013 00:25 Orangered wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 00:14 Zahir wrote:The difference is that the group above are one which by normal standards we would not consider aesthetically pleasing Allow me to stop you right there. First off, almost any of the men you listed are or were EASILY physically attractive due to being in peak shape. You would have to look high in low in any professional sports league to find a player who could not walk into a bar and walk out minutes later with someone eager to sleep with him or her, purely on the basis of raw sexual attraction. As for all these pictures of female athletes in Maxim - there was no contract that forced them to do that. Women have agency, believe it or not, and its not for the likes of tl to tell the women who choose to engage in risque photoshoots how to live. There is. I read earlier about dress codes!
Uh huh. And if a baseball player thinks his skin tight, butt revealing pants are over the top and uncomfortable, or if a male athlete in the nfl isnt keen on having a female "interviewer" and camera crew ogling him and his friends in the locker room in various states of undress, they are in the exact same position.
I mean... Forgive me, but I just don't get the point here. It isnt discrimination to want to watch the highest level of competition, which just happens to be found within the major male sports leagues. Like, what is the proposed solution? Force audiences to watch women's leagues more even though the level of competition is lower? Force female sports leagues to desexify their dress codes? And when ratings inevitably drop then what? Government subsidies?
I dunno, I guess I'm just old fashioned or something. To me, sexism is discrimination on the basis of gender. Not the failure of society to provide special privileges for female sports leagues so that only the male ones have to cater to the actual audiences and deal with problems of supply and demand.
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On June 08 2013 00:58 saddaromma wrote:
its simple. boys watch sports, girls don't. therefore, hot chicks are popular, and hot guys are not.
So why not women bikini basketball then
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On June 08 2013 01:04 Zahir wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 00:25 Orangered wrote:On June 08 2013 00:14 Zahir wrote:The difference is that the group above are one which by normal standards we would not consider aesthetically pleasing Allow me to stop you right there. First off, almost any of the men you listed are or were EASILY physically attractive due to being in peak shape. You would have to look high in low in any professional sports league to find a player who could not walk into a bar and walk out minutes later with someone eager to sleep with him or her, purely on the basis of raw sexual attraction. As for all these pictures of female athletes in Maxim - there was no contract that forced them to do that. Women have agency, believe it or not, and its not for the likes of tl to tell the women who choose to engage in risque photoshoots how to live. There is. I read earlier about dress codes! Uh huh. And if a baseball player thinks his skin tight, butt revealing pants are over the top and uncomfortable, or if a male athlete in the nfl isnt keen on having a female "interviewer" and camera crew ogling him and his friends in the locker room in various states of undress, they are in the exact same position. I mean... Forgive me, but I just don't get the point here. It isnt discrimination to want to watch the highest level of competition, which just happens to be found within the major male sports leagues. Like, what is the proposed solution? Force audiences to watch women's leagues more even though the level of competition is lower? Force female sports leagues to desexify their dress codes? And when ratings inevitably drop then what? Government subsidies? I dunno, I guess I'm just old fashioned or something. To me, sexism is discrimination on the basis of gender. Not the failure of society to provide special privileges for female sports leagues so that only the male ones have to cater to the actual audiences and deal with problems of supply and demand.
Dont derail the discussion. You mentioned agency, I simply answered you that there is no such thing in womens tennis as there is a required dress code that flatters their feminine aspect, therefore sexualization.
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On June 08 2013 00:41 hadang wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 22:40 fleeze wrote:On June 07 2013 22:36 Redox wrote:On June 07 2013 22:31 Shai wrote:
(Yes, I know there are chemical and physiological differences between the genders, but I'm making a point) Yeah you are making a dumb point. The differences are huge. And there are also special leagues for elder people, for young people etc. And sometimes watching a female sport is better than the male equivalant. For example I prefer watching womens volleyball over mens, simply becasue there are longer and more exciting rallies. Womens tennis is also basically a different sport from mens. Its very much a matter of taste what you like better. nothing against you but it's interesting your mentioning exactly the 2 most sexualized women sports. (beach) volleyball and tennis have strict dressing codes for women where they have to wear the shortest hotpants possible or be disqualified (LOL). i'd say the organisations that force these rules are sexist for sure. Well, thats just not true : ![[image loading]](http://answers.bettor.com/images/Articles/thumbs/extralarge/Victoria-Azarenka-breezes-past-Elena-Vesnina-to-enter-round-two-French-Open-2013-216001.jpg)
just saw they changed the rules for beach volleyball just before the olympics, so maybe it's outdated: link.
but it existed before:
The Associated Press reports that the International Volleyball Federation has modified its rules to allow "shorts of a maximum length of (1.18 inches) above the knee, and sleeved or sleeveless tops."
other sports are trying to do the same. like badminton and others which tried to force women to wear skirts.
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On June 08 2013 01:01 micronesia wrote:Men's sports are sexualized for men also: proof
Uhm, nope. It is the contrary actually, more proof of women's sexuality being used for male enjoyment = sexualization of women, not as athletes though in this case.
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On June 07 2013 22:40 fleeze wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 22:36 Redox wrote:On June 07 2013 22:31 Shai wrote:
(Yes, I know there are chemical and physiological differences between the genders, but I'm making a point) Yeah you are making a dumb point. The differences are huge. And there are also special leagues for elder people, for young people etc. And sometimes watching a female sport is better than the male equivalant. For example I prefer watching womens volleyball over mens, simply becasue there are longer and more exciting rallies. Womens tennis is also basically a different sport from mens. Its very much a matter of taste what you like better. nothing against you but it's interesting your mentioning exactly the 2 most sexualized women sports. (beach) volleyball and tennis have strict dressing codes for women where they have to wear the shortest hotpants possible or be disqualified (LOL). i'd say the organisations that force these rules are sexist for sure.
I didn't think that regular volleyball has any real differences between men and women dress codes? Beach volleyball, sure. But he didn't say that; you did.
For what it's worth, I agree that women's volleyball is more interesting because of the longer rallies. I'd also add figure skating to that list because the women always seem to be more graceful to me. Of course, that could have something to do with it being a sport that is incredibly female dominated.
Another one would be curling. I find that I like enjoy both men's and women's curling equally. The skill level difference isn't nearly as drastic as it used to be and the top women's team can give the top men's team a run for their money (that being said, at the very top men still have an edge). One thing I noticed is that the women's curling is a lot more even than with men's curling; upsets are a lot more likely.
So here's the skip for a top ranked team in Sweden. Do you think she was picked for her looks?
![[image loading]](http://gfx.aftonbladet-cdn.se/image/14550017/800/normal/ab5f531b86dd6/curling800.jpg)
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On June 08 2013 00:54 Drowsy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 00:47 ComaDose wrote:On June 08 2013 00:39 Drowsy wrote:
Of course, but it's not as though male athletes are sexualized in a similar, though admittedly lesser, capacity. This does nothing to support the notion of a systematic patriarchal discriminatory society though. If anything, it demonstrates the much higher price we, in human societies, place on female sexuality vs male sexuality. Eggs are expensive and sperm is cheap, men are the disposable sex.
Wilt Chamberlain. wat? you just said males are sexualized in a lesser capacity and we place a higher price on female sexuality, but you don't think this has the potential to put men (the "judges" of physical appearance) in a relatively higher possition? or effect average women negatively? I read that like: "we judge your looks harder and sexualize you more based on your sex, but its not sexist cause i find your sexuality valuable." wat? A given women above an attractiveness threshold in any public arena will have far more capacity to exploit her sexuality for popularity, personal, and financial gain than a given man of the same attractiveness. Yes, this sounds like a huge advantage to me. That's not to say it's not sexist, just sexism in the direction opposite to the one the jezebelers would like to believe.
From what I've heard about studies looking at things like who gets invited to a job interview, the advantage a handsome man has is stronger than a woman being beautiful. I think I've heard the same about studies where people get to evaluate a situation or an argument, with the only difference being how beautiful someone is. There's something where being beautiful can have downsides for women, but for men it's more likely to be a positive, and the effect is also stronger. That said, I'm really not sure I remember this right.
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On June 08 2013 01:10 fleeze wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 00:41 hadang wrote:On June 07 2013 22:40 fleeze wrote:On June 07 2013 22:36 Redox wrote:On June 07 2013 22:31 Shai wrote:
(Yes, I know there are chemical and physiological differences between the genders, but I'm making a point) Yeah you are making a dumb point. The differences are huge. And there are also special leagues for elder people, for young people etc. And sometimes watching a female sport is better than the male equivalant. For example I prefer watching womens volleyball over mens, simply becasue there are longer and more exciting rallies. Womens tennis is also basically a different sport from mens. Its very much a matter of taste what you like better. nothing against you but it's interesting your mentioning exactly the 2 most sexualized women sports. (beach) volleyball and tennis have strict dressing codes for women where they have to wear the shortest hotpants possible or be disqualified (LOL). i'd say the organisations that force these rules are sexist for sure. Well, thats just not true : just saw they changed the rules for beach volleyball just before the olympics, so maybe it's outdated: link. but it existed before: Show nested quote +The Associated Press reports that the International Volleyball Federation has modified its rules to allow "shorts of a maximum length of (1.18 inches) above the knee, and sleeved or sleeveless tops." other sports are trying to do the same. like badminton and others which tried to force women to wear skirts.
Isn't it obvious from my picture that my post is only about Tennis ? There you can see that in Tennis there is absolutely no rule to wear hotpants
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On June 08 2013 01:13 hadang wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 01:10 fleeze wrote:On June 08 2013 00:41 hadang wrote:On June 07 2013 22:40 fleeze wrote:On June 07 2013 22:36 Redox wrote:On June 07 2013 22:31 Shai wrote:
(Yes, I know there are chemical and physiological differences between the genders, but I'm making a point) Yeah you are making a dumb point. The differences are huge. And there are also special leagues for elder people, for young people etc. And sometimes watching a female sport is better than the male equivalant. For example I prefer watching womens volleyball over mens, simply becasue there are longer and more exciting rallies. Womens tennis is also basically a different sport from mens. Its very much a matter of taste what you like better. nothing against you but it's interesting your mentioning exactly the 2 most sexualized women sports. (beach) volleyball and tennis have strict dressing codes for women where they have to wear the shortest hotpants possible or be disqualified (LOL). i'd say the organisations that force these rules are sexist for sure. Well, thats just not true : just saw they changed the rules for beach volleyball just before the olympics, so maybe it's outdated: link. but it existed before: The Associated Press reports that the International Volleyball Federation has modified its rules to allow "shorts of a maximum length of (1.18 inches) above the knee, and sleeved or sleeveless tops." other sports are trying to do the same. like badminton and others which tried to force women to wear skirts. Isn't it obvious from my picture that my post is only about Tennis ? There you can see that in Tennis there is absolutely no rule to wear hotpants
guess i mixed up tennis and badminton. i apologize.
but my point wasn't about the sports. it's just that those rules do exist.
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EPT
