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On April 19 2013 06:05 McBengt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 05:57 Believer wrote:On April 19 2013 05:54 McBengt wrote:On April 19 2013 05:38 Believer wrote:On April 19 2013 05:37 Teoman wrote:On April 19 2013 05:30 Believer wrote:
Swede here. Strongly support monarchy and wish the king had more power. May i ask. Why? I believe royals are superior to us "grunts". Are you trolling here or something? Our king is an illiterate whore-mongering imbecile who can't even spell his own title, all but one of his children are spoiled brats with an IQ barely above sea level who live off of the sweat of hard-working people, a non-stop party with the taxpayers picking up the bill. Their like a whole band of drunk uncles who just won't leave. Revolting. Monarchy is an embrassament, it's like a vestigial tumour from a time when we didn't know what an atom was and thought witches were responisble for soured milk. For the republics in Europe and the US, you have my sincere envy. Viva la revolucion. I am not trolling. I have never said that the IQ or literally skills or even the morale of our royals are above us. I just think that they are worth more than me, in terms of "worthiness". If your wife was going to get hit by a bus and the only way to stop it was to push her out of the way and instead sacrifice yourself, would you do it? I suspect most of us would, I know I would. That is the sort of feeling I have for our royal family. Maybe not to the extent of sacrificing my existence to them, but I would do a lot. I'd push them in front of the bus. Why would they have some greater inherent value than other members of the same primate species? Why are they exempt from the rule of being judged by your actions, not your birth? What an absolutely disgusting idea, fundamentally undemocratic and contrary to almost every humanistic principle I can think of. It's such a laughable concept, so illogical and without any reasoned merit whatsoever, it's based on bronze age morality and social policies one would expect to find in a pack of hyenas. The king is the king because he has power, soldiers, and can simply take what he wants. Might makes right, law of the jungle.
That would make you a murderer.
So far in this conversation you are the only admitted would-be criminal. You have disgust for certain people, I just like that specific group more than others. You are hateful, I am not. You argue on the points of humanistic principles, democracy and call my position laughable. Your argument is one of morality, which is a human invention. Monarchy is also a human invention, in the form that has been practiced in Europe for several hundreds of years atleast.
I state my position and you ridicule me. The OP wanted my opinion which is clear from the first post. I did not expect to be liked in this thread, but I did not expect blatant hate.
As for your last sentences, the king of Sweden has no army, no power and no might.
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On April 19 2013 06:07 Chocolate wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 06:05 farvacola wrote:On April 19 2013 06:02 Chocolate wrote:
What we truly need is a technocracy run by the leaders of industry, economics, and science (with restrictions, i.e. the current CEO of Ford should not be making decisions). Then we could rise above the uneducated and politically apathetic masses of a republic and the luck (and helplessness) that comes with monarchy while giving everybody the power to contribute simply by being highly knowledgeable in a field. Jesus Christ I hope not. Why not? Why should the people who have proven themselves to be among the most capable leaders of their respective occupations not rule a nation?
Technocracy does not mean the people who have proven themselves the best leaders get to rule, it means rule by technocrats.
It has been tried to various degrees in various countries, particularly State Communist countries like the USSR and China in the 20th century, and it failed miserably. Technocrats are no more immune to political pressure and to human failings than anyone else.
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On April 19 2013 06:11 Believer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 06:05 McBengt wrote:On April 19 2013 05:57 Believer wrote:On April 19 2013 05:54 McBengt wrote:On April 19 2013 05:38 Believer wrote:On April 19 2013 05:37 Teoman wrote:On April 19 2013 05:30 Believer wrote:
Swede here. Strongly support monarchy and wish the king had more power. May i ask. Why? I believe royals are superior to us "grunts". Are you trolling here or something? Our king is an illiterate whore-mongering imbecile who can't even spell his own title, all but one of his children are spoiled brats with an IQ barely above sea level who live off of the sweat of hard-working people, a non-stop party with the taxpayers picking up the bill. Their like a whole band of drunk uncles who just won't leave. Revolting. Monarchy is an embrassament, it's like a vestigial tumour from a time when we didn't know what an atom was and thought witches were responisble for soured milk. For the republics in Europe and the US, you have my sincere envy. Viva la revolucion. I am not trolling. I have never said that the IQ or literally skills or even the morale of our royals are above us. I just think that they are worth more than me, in terms of "worthiness". If your wife was going to get hit by a bus and the only way to stop it was to push her out of the way and instead sacrifice yourself, would you do it? I suspect most of us would, I know I would. That is the sort of feeling I have for our royal family. Maybe not to the extent of sacrificing my existence to them, but I would do a lot. I'd push them in front of the bus. Why would they have some greater inherent value than other members of the same primate species? Why are they exempt from the rule of being judged by your actions, not your birth? What an absolutely disgusting idea, fundamentally undemocratic and contrary to almost every humanistic principle I can think of. It's such a laughable concept, so illogical and without any reasoned merit whatsoever, it's based on bronze age morality and social policies one would expect to find in a pack of hyenas. The king is the king because he has power, soldiers, and can simply take what he wants. Might makes right, law of the jungle. That would make you a murderer. So far in this conversation you are the only admitted would-be criminal. You have disgust for certain people, I just like that specific group more than others. You are hateful, I am not. You argue on the points of humanistic principles, democracy and call my position laughable. Your argument is one of morality, which is a human invention. Monarchy is also a human invention, in the form that has been practiced in Europe for several hundreds of years atleast. I state my position and you ridicule me. The OP wanted my opinion which is clear from the first post. I did not expect to be liked in this thread, but I did not expect blatant hate. As for your last sentences, the king of Sweden has no army, no power and no might.
Morality is just an invention, and you criticize the other poster for being a murderer? You can't have your cake and eat it, too.
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On April 19 2013 06:11 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 06:07 Chocolate wrote:On April 19 2013 06:05 farvacola wrote:On April 19 2013 06:02 Chocolate wrote:
What we truly need is a technocracy run by the leaders of industry, economics, and science (with restrictions, i.e. the current CEO of Ford should not be making decisions). Then we could rise above the uneducated and politically apathetic masses of a republic and the luck (and helplessness) that comes with monarchy while giving everybody the power to contribute simply by being highly knowledgeable in a field. Jesus Christ I hope not. Why not? Why should the people who have proven themselves to be among the most capable leaders of their respective occupations not rule a nation? Technocracy does not mean the people who have proven themselves the best leaders get to rule, it means rule by technocrats. It has been tried to various degrees in various countries, particularly State Communist countries like the USSR and China in the 20th century, and it failed miserably. Technocrats are no more immune to political pressure and to human failings than anyone else.
Plus they can support their own vested interest in each realm that represent.
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On April 19 2013 06:07 Chocolate wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 06:05 farvacola wrote:On April 19 2013 06:02 Chocolate wrote:
What we truly need is a technocracy run by the leaders of industry, economics, and science (with restrictions, i.e. the current CEO of Ford should not be making decisions). Then we could rise above the uneducated and politically apathetic masses of a republic and the luck (and helplessness) that comes with monarchy while giving everybody the power to contribute simply by being highly knowledgeable in a field. Jesus Christ I hope not. Why not? Why should the people who have proven themselves to be among the most capable leaders of their respective occupations not rule a nation?
Because their respective occupations are not ruling a nation. Anyone who thinks scientists are somehow "better leaders" needs to revisit the symposiums and community meetings that took place alongside the "Is Pluto a planet" debate. I also highly recommend the works of Thomas Kuhn.
As to putting the leaders of industry in charge......well I daresay that human history is full to the brim with reasons why private interests oftentimes do not align with public interest, particularly where industry is concerned.
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On April 19 2013 06:11 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 06:07 Chocolate wrote:On April 19 2013 06:05 farvacola wrote:On April 19 2013 06:02 Chocolate wrote:
What we truly need is a technocracy run by the leaders of industry, economics, and science (with restrictions, i.e. the current CEO of Ford should not be making decisions). Then we could rise above the uneducated and politically apathetic masses of a republic and the luck (and helplessness) that comes with monarchy while giving everybody the power to contribute simply by being highly knowledgeable in a field. Jesus Christ I hope not. Why not? Why should the people who have proven themselves to be among the most capable leaders of their respective occupations not rule a nation? Technocracy does not mean the people who have proven themselves the best leaders get to rule, it means rule by technocrats. It has been tried to various degrees in various countries, particularly State Communist countries like the USSR and China in the 20th century, and it failed miserably. Technocrats are no more immune to political pressure and to human failings than anyone else.
I guess I described a modified version that included businessmen whereas conventional technocracies do not, but why shouldn't it work? I'd argue that many of the countries that have had radical forms of government had been economically backward long before adopting their newer gov. and thus aren't the best examples. A country like Singapore or Japan that became a technocracy would, in my opinion, be a fairer judge of its merits.
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On April 19 2013 06:09 McBengt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 05:55 Grumbels wrote:On April 19 2013 05:38 DeepElemBlues wrote:On April 19 2013 05:36 EatThePath wrote:On April 19 2013 05:23 Arctic Daishi wrote:On April 19 2013 05:20 farvacola wrote:On April 19 2013 05:18 Arctic Daishi wrote:On April 19 2013 05:10 ComaDose wrote: The idea of being born into power or nobility has always been abhorrent and foreign to us. what? rich powerful mommies and daddies make rich powerful babbies everywhere. America is not different. Capitalism /=/ Aristocratic "born to rule" monarchism. Why don't you get a bit past this formal obsession with political words and instead use these words in order to speak to actual ideas. It doesn't take a genius to see that top-heavy capital agglomeration and familial lines follow fairly closely. The inheritance of privilege is alive and well in the US no matter how many denotative darts you throw at it. You mean to tell me that parents are allowed to try to give their children the best healthcare and education possible? And that somehow makes the United States a feudalistic monarchy? Have you never read chomsky? Or you just enjoy sounding ignorant? Chomsky is not a serious political theorizer outside of the internet and a vocal academic fringe. That's why he has to rage about the corporate media and the corporate controlled culture shutting him out, to explain why he doesn't have more influence. So, who really is enjoying sounding ignorant here? http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/18/books.highereducationOn April 19 2013 05:54 McBengt wrote:On April 19 2013 05:38 Believer wrote:On April 19 2013 05:37 Teoman wrote:On April 19 2013 05:30 Believer wrote:
Swede here. Strongly support monarchy and wish the king had more power. May i ask. Why? I believe royals are superior to us "grunts". Are you trolling here or something? Our king is an illiterate whore-mongering imbecile who can't even spell his own title, all but one of his children are spoiled brats with an IQ barely above sea level who live off of the sweat of hard-working people, a non-stop party with the taxpayers picking up the bill. Their like a whole band of drunk uncles who just won't leave. Revolting. Monarchy is an embrassament, it's like a vestigial tumour from a time when we didn't know what an atom was and thought witches were responisble for soured milk. For the republics in Europe and the US, you have my sincere envy. Viva la revolucion. I'm pretty sure the monarchy could be funded entirely on donations from the public, since enough are monarchist and like having a king (sort of the ultimate celebrity). Too bad that's not how it works. If a group of people wanted to put some guy on a big chair and give him a crown and call him a king, go for it. If they felt like paying for his life of luxury, hey whatever floats your boat. I would very much like to be left out of this idiocy.
Too bad that's not how taxation works. You can't avoid paying taxes for whatever pet issue you might have. I mentioned that the monarchy could be funded entirely by donations not as an idea for the future, but to illustrate that you might as well tax it at that point. Furthermore, they can't officially represent the country without public funding.
On April 19 2013 06:12 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 06:07 Chocolate wrote:On April 19 2013 06:05 farvacola wrote:On April 19 2013 06:02 Chocolate wrote:
What we truly need is a technocracy run by the leaders of industry, economics, and science (with restrictions, i.e. the current CEO of Ford should not be making decisions). Then we could rise above the uneducated and politically apathetic masses of a republic and the luck (and helplessness) that comes with monarchy while giving everybody the power to contribute simply by being highly knowledgeable in a field. Jesus Christ I hope not. Why not? Why should the people who have proven themselves to be among the most capable leaders of their respective occupations not rule a nation? Anyone who thinks scientists are somehow "better leaders" needs to revisit the symposiums and community meetings that took place alongside the "Is Pluto a planet" debate.
Can you explain this? I somehow missed the Pluto downgrading & assorted debates despite being generally very interested in astronomy. :/
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On April 19 2013 06:11 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 06:11 Believer wrote:On April 19 2013 06:05 McBengt wrote:On April 19 2013 05:57 Believer wrote:On April 19 2013 05:54 McBengt wrote:On April 19 2013 05:38 Believer wrote:On April 19 2013 05:37 Teoman wrote:On April 19 2013 05:30 Believer wrote:
Swede here. Strongly support monarchy and wish the king had more power. May i ask. Why? I believe royals are superior to us "grunts". Are you trolling here or something? Our king is an illiterate whore-mongering imbecile who can't even spell his own title, all but one of his children are spoiled brats with an IQ barely above sea level who live off of the sweat of hard-working people, a non-stop party with the taxpayers picking up the bill. Their like a whole band of drunk uncles who just won't leave. Revolting. Monarchy is an embrassament, it's like a vestigial tumour from a time when we didn't know what an atom was and thought witches were responisble for soured milk. For the republics in Europe and the US, you have my sincere envy. Viva la revolucion. I am not trolling. I have never said that the IQ or literally skills or even the morale of our royals are above us. I just think that they are worth more than me, in terms of "worthiness". If your wife was going to get hit by a bus and the only way to stop it was to push her out of the way and instead sacrifice yourself, would you do it? I suspect most of us would, I know I would. That is the sort of feeling I have for our royal family. Maybe not to the extent of sacrificing my existence to them, but I would do a lot. I'd push them in front of the bus. Why would they have some greater inherent value than other members of the same primate species? Why are they exempt from the rule of being judged by your actions, not your birth? What an absolutely disgusting idea, fundamentally undemocratic and contrary to almost every humanistic principle I can think of. It's such a laughable concept, so illogical and without any reasoned merit whatsoever, it's based on bronze age morality and social policies one would expect to find in a pack of hyenas. The king is the king because he has power, soldiers, and can simply take what he wants. Might makes right, law of the jungle. That would make you a murderer. So far in this conversation you are the only admitted would-be criminal. You have disgust for certain people, I just like that specific group more than others. You are hateful, I am not. You argue on the points of humanistic principles, democracy and call my position laughable. Your argument is one of morality, which is a human invention. Monarchy is also a human invention, in the form that has been practiced in Europe for several hundreds of years atleast. I state my position and you ridicule me. The OP wanted my opinion which is clear from the first post. I did not expect to be liked in this thread, but I did not expect blatant hate. As for your last sentences, the king of Sweden has no army, no power and no might. Morality is just an invention, and you criticize the other poster for being a murderer? You can't have your cake and eat it, too.
I have nothing against laws. Laws are specific moralities that we must all abide by if we expect to be treated like full citizens. I do not agree with all laws, but I must follow them. In the eyes of society and the judicial system he would not be treated like someone who isn't a murderer. I pointed out that I have not yet threatened anyone or said I would be a criminal if the situation arose. There is no double standard here like you propose.
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I'd say our monarchy is more of a cultural program than anything else nowadays.
Kind of like government support for preservation of nice-looking old buildings, only the buildings are people.
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On April 19 2013 06:12 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 06:07 Chocolate wrote:On April 19 2013 06:05 farvacola wrote:On April 19 2013 06:02 Chocolate wrote:
What we truly need is a technocracy run by the leaders of industry, economics, and science (with restrictions, i.e. the current CEO of Ford should not be making decisions). Then we could rise above the uneducated and politically apathetic masses of a republic and the luck (and helplessness) that comes with monarchy while giving everybody the power to contribute simply by being highly knowledgeable in a field. Jesus Christ I hope not. Why not? Why should the people who have proven themselves to be among the most capable leaders of their respective occupations not rule a nation? Because their respective occupations are not ruling a nation. Anyone who thinks scientists are somehow "better leaders" needs to revisit the symposiums and community meetings that took place alongside the "Is Pluto a planet" debate. I also highly recommend the works of Thomas Kuhn. As to putting the leaders of industry in charge......well I daresay that human history is full to the brim with reasons why private interests oftentimes do not align with public interest, particularly where industry is concerned.
If we nationalized all industries but structured them like corporations there would be no private interests to speak of.
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Monarchy isn't really undemocratic by the way if a majority of the people actually wants the monarchy to remain. One of the effects of democracy is the possibility that it can absolve itself or parts of itself if it ever chooses to.
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On April 19 2013 06:16 Chocolate wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 06:12 farvacola wrote:On April 19 2013 06:07 Chocolate wrote:On April 19 2013 06:05 farvacola wrote:On April 19 2013 06:02 Chocolate wrote:
What we truly need is a technocracy run by the leaders of industry, economics, and science (with restrictions, i.e. the current CEO of Ford should not be making decisions). Then we could rise above the uneducated and politically apathetic masses of a republic and the luck (and helplessness) that comes with monarchy while giving everybody the power to contribute simply by being highly knowledgeable in a field. Jesus Christ I hope not. Why not? Why should the people who have proven themselves to be among the most capable leaders of their respective occupations not rule a nation? Because their respective occupations are not ruling a nation. Anyone who thinks scientists are somehow "better leaders" needs to revisit the symposiums and community meetings that took place alongside the "Is Pluto a planet" debate. I also highly recommend the works of Thomas Kuhn. As to putting the leaders of industry in charge......well I daresay that human history is full to the brim with reasons why private interests oftentimes do not align with public interest, particularly where industry is concerned. If we nationalized all industries but structured them like corporations there would be no private interests to speak of.
And how exactly do sweeping changes like that become implemented? Don't get me wrong, when you say "nationalized all industries", you are definitely speaking my language, but I think the journey is oftentimes far more important than the destination when it comes to politics.
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Canadian here. Pro satus quo simply because I have no desire to see my country go through a re-writing of the constitution, which would essentially be required to boot the Queen. Our last attenpts to ammend the constitution didn't really end well...
Besside, if there is something that needs to go above all its first past the pole. The Queen (well, the GG) has a minor impact, FPTP not so much. Its just not an issue for me I guess, having a republic wouldn't inherently change the power distribution. Its hard to get worked up over a figurehead.
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On April 19 2013 06:16 Chocolate wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 06:12 farvacola wrote:On April 19 2013 06:07 Chocolate wrote:On April 19 2013 06:05 farvacola wrote:On April 19 2013 06:02 Chocolate wrote:
What we truly need is a technocracy run by the leaders of industry, economics, and science (with restrictions, i.e. the current CEO of Ford should not be making decisions). Then we could rise above the uneducated and politically apathetic masses of a republic and the luck (and helplessness) that comes with monarchy while giving everybody the power to contribute simply by being highly knowledgeable in a field. Jesus Christ I hope not. Why not? Why should the people who have proven themselves to be among the most capable leaders of their respective occupations not rule a nation? Because their respective occupations are not ruling a nation. Anyone who thinks scientists are somehow "better leaders" needs to revisit the symposiums and community meetings that took place alongside the "Is Pluto a planet" debate. I also highly recommend the works of Thomas Kuhn. As to putting the leaders of industry in charge......well I daresay that human history is full to the brim with reasons why private interests oftentimes do not align with public interest, particularly where industry is concerned. If we nationalized all industries but structured them like corporations there would be no private interests to speak of.
Then in a few years down the line they would all become unprofitable and inefficient.
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On April 19 2013 06:11 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 06:11 Believer wrote:On April 19 2013 06:05 McBengt wrote:On April 19 2013 05:57 Believer wrote:On April 19 2013 05:54 McBengt wrote:On April 19 2013 05:38 Believer wrote:On April 19 2013 05:37 Teoman wrote:On April 19 2013 05:30 Believer wrote:
Swede here. Strongly support monarchy and wish the king had more power. May i ask. Why? I believe royals are superior to us "grunts". Are you trolling here or something? Our king is an illiterate whore-mongering imbecile who can't even spell his own title, all but one of his children are spoiled brats with an IQ barely above sea level who live off of the sweat of hard-working people, a non-stop party with the taxpayers picking up the bill. Their like a whole band of drunk uncles who just won't leave. Revolting. Monarchy is an embrassament, it's like a vestigial tumour from a time when we didn't know what an atom was and thought witches were responisble for soured milk. For the republics in Europe and the US, you have my sincere envy. Viva la revolucion. I am not trolling. I have never said that the IQ or literally skills or even the morale of our royals are above us. I just think that they are worth more than me, in terms of "worthiness". If your wife was going to get hit by a bus and the only way to stop it was to push her out of the way and instead sacrifice yourself, would you do it? I suspect most of us would, I know I would. That is the sort of feeling I have for our royal family. Maybe not to the extent of sacrificing my existence to them, but I would do a lot. I'd push them in front of the bus. Why would they have some greater inherent value than other members of the same primate species? Why are they exempt from the rule of being judged by your actions, not your birth? What an absolutely disgusting idea, fundamentally undemocratic and contrary to almost every humanistic principle I can think of. It's such a laughable concept, so illogical and without any reasoned merit whatsoever, it's based on bronze age morality and social policies one would expect to find in a pack of hyenas. The king is the king because he has power, soldiers, and can simply take what he wants. Might makes right, law of the jungle. That would make you a murderer. So far in this conversation you are the only admitted would-be criminal. You have disgust for certain people, I just like that specific group more than others. You are hateful, I am not. You argue on the points of humanistic principles, democracy and call my position laughable. Your argument is one of morality, which is a human invention. Monarchy is also a human invention, in the form that has been practiced in Europe for several hundreds of years atleast. I state my position and you ridicule me. The OP wanted my opinion which is clear from the first post. I did not expect to be liked in this thread, but I did not expect blatant hate. As for your last sentences, the king of Sweden has no army, no power and no might. Morality is just an invention, and you criticize the other poster for being a murderer? You can't have your cake and eat it, too.
He doesn't seem to understand that lots of things are just inventions of the mind, constructions of the mind, and these things guide / rule human behavior, and as such are just as real, at least in a way, as the people acting according to them. They cause behavior. The behavior is very real. Giving short shrift to why the behavior happened for the reason of advancing another moral-politico narrative is deliberately not holistic, at the very least.
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On April 19 2013 06:19 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 06:16 Chocolate wrote:On April 19 2013 06:12 farvacola wrote:On April 19 2013 06:07 Chocolate wrote:On April 19 2013 06:05 farvacola wrote:On April 19 2013 06:02 Chocolate wrote:
What we truly need is a technocracy run by the leaders of industry, economics, and science (with restrictions, i.e. the current CEO of Ford should not be making decisions). Then we could rise above the uneducated and politically apathetic masses of a republic and the luck (and helplessness) that comes with monarchy while giving everybody the power to contribute simply by being highly knowledgeable in a field. Jesus Christ I hope not. Why not? Why should the people who have proven themselves to be among the most capable leaders of their respective occupations not rule a nation? Because their respective occupations are not ruling a nation. Anyone who thinks scientists are somehow "better leaders" needs to revisit the symposiums and community meetings that took place alongside the "Is Pluto a planet" debate. I also highly recommend the works of Thomas Kuhn. As to putting the leaders of industry in charge......well I daresay that human history is full to the brim with reasons why private interests oftentimes do not align with public interest, particularly where industry is concerned. If we nationalized all industries but structured them like corporations there would be no private interests to speak of. Then in a few years down the line they would all become unprofitable and inefficient.
And the main reason for them being unprofitable and inefficient would be corruption, lack of a real reason to make progress other than politics, and concentration on political scheming and backstabbing and infighting rather than performance to keep their positions. That was the agro-industrial-politico culture of the USSR.
EDIT: But let's please not derail this thread into a debate about technocracy, the last two threads we had about technocracy were entirely silly, and the Republicanism or Monarchism discussion is not only more interesting, it's more practical even if the concepts are being discussed in the abstract.
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On April 19 2013 06:11 Believer wrote:
That would make you a murderer.
Depends on whether they died or not. Do you really think I was serious about pushing the king in front of a bus?
So far in this conversation you are the only admitted would-be criminal. You have disgust for certain people, I just like that specific group more than others. You are hateful, I am not. You argue on the points of humanistic principles, democracy and call my position laughable. Your argument is one of morality, which is a human invention. Monarchy is also a human invention, in the form that has been practiced in Europe for several hundreds of years atleast.
The OP wanted my opinion which is clear from the first post. I did not expect to be liked in this thread, but I did not expect blatant hate.
Can you even read? I said your idea was disgusting, precisely because it places a certain caste of people above others, undeservedly. I hate the idea of a monarchy yes, with all my heart. I ridicule you because your points are ridiculous.
Yes modern morality is a human invention, just like monarchy. Your point? Penicillin is a human invention too, and so is nazism. Some inventions are good, some bad. Monarchy is thoroughly terrible.
The OP wanted my opinion which is clear from the first post. I did not expect to be liked in this thread, but I did not expect blatant hate.
You get the responses your posts merit. If you want less hostility, consider making better posts.
As for your last sentences, the king of Sweden has no army, no power and no might.
I knew you'd say this. Reread the part about the principle and origin of monarchy again. The basic concept of a monarch is based on the idea of the rule of the strong, the king rules because anyone who challenges him will be beaten into submission. The fact that modern monarchies have become a farcical soap opera rather than a political force does not change the fundamental concept.
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On April 19 2013 06:20 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 06:11 Shiori wrote:On April 19 2013 06:11 Believer wrote:On April 19 2013 06:05 McBengt wrote:On April 19 2013 05:57 Believer wrote:On April 19 2013 05:54 McBengt wrote:On April 19 2013 05:38 Believer wrote:On April 19 2013 05:37 Teoman wrote:On April 19 2013 05:30 Believer wrote:
Swede here. Strongly support monarchy and wish the king had more power. May i ask. Why? I believe royals are superior to us "grunts". Are you trolling here or something? Our king is an illiterate whore-mongering imbecile who can't even spell his own title, all but one of his children are spoiled brats with an IQ barely above sea level who live off of the sweat of hard-working people, a non-stop party with the taxpayers picking up the bill. Their like a whole band of drunk uncles who just won't leave. Revolting. Monarchy is an embrassament, it's like a vestigial tumour from a time when we didn't know what an atom was and thought witches were responisble for soured milk. For the republics in Europe and the US, you have my sincere envy. Viva la revolucion. I am not trolling. I have never said that the IQ or literally skills or even the morale of our royals are above us. I just think that they are worth more than me, in terms of "worthiness". If your wife was going to get hit by a bus and the only way to stop it was to push her out of the way and instead sacrifice yourself, would you do it? I suspect most of us would, I know I would. That is the sort of feeling I have for our royal family. Maybe not to the extent of sacrificing my existence to them, but I would do a lot. I'd push them in front of the bus. Why would they have some greater inherent value than other members of the same primate species? Why are they exempt from the rule of being judged by your actions, not your birth? What an absolutely disgusting idea, fundamentally undemocratic and contrary to almost every humanistic principle I can think of. It's such a laughable concept, so illogical and without any reasoned merit whatsoever, it's based on bronze age morality and social policies one would expect to find in a pack of hyenas. The king is the king because he has power, soldiers, and can simply take what he wants. Might makes right, law of the jungle. That would make you a murderer. So far in this conversation you are the only admitted would-be criminal. You have disgust for certain people, I just like that specific group more than others. You are hateful, I am not. You argue on the points of humanistic principles, democracy and call my position laughable. Your argument is one of morality, which is a human invention. Monarchy is also a human invention, in the form that has been practiced in Europe for several hundreds of years atleast. I state my position and you ridicule me. The OP wanted my opinion which is clear from the first post. I did not expect to be liked in this thread, but I did not expect blatant hate. As for your last sentences, the king of Sweden has no army, no power and no might. Morality is just an invention, and you criticize the other poster for being a murderer? You can't have your cake and eat it, too. He doesn't seem to understand that lots of things are just inventions of the mind, constructions of the mind, and these things guide / rule human behavior, and as such are just as real, at least in a way, as the people acting according to them. They cause behavior. The behavior is very real. Giving short shrift to why the behavior happened for the reason of advancing another moral-politico narrative is deliberately not holistic, at the very least.
I am not too happy to be talked about while I am obviously reading the thread, and you are not. If you read my previous texts you will see that I do not advocate either side of the debate. I state that I am in favor of monarchy and why I do so. I point out that both morality and monarchy are to a large extent inventions of humans, I choose monarchy. Morality is not absolute, no one can argue that. I have morals, but they will not be the same as yours, probably very different. My morals are probably very different from most, but I'd argue that few moralities are exactly the same. You pick your favourite imaginations and you stick to them. That's what I've done and what I've stated in this thread.
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On April 19 2013 06:23 McBengt wrote:Depends on whether they died or not. Do you really think I was serious about pushing the king in front of a bus? Show nested quote +
So far in this conversation you are the only admitted would-be criminal. You have disgust for certain people, I just like that specific group more than others. You are hateful, I am not. You argue on the points of humanistic principles, democracy and call my position laughable. Your argument is one of morality, which is a human invention. Monarchy is also a human invention, in the form that has been practiced in Europe for several hundreds of years atleast.
The OP wanted my opinion which is clear from the first post. I did not expect to be liked in this thread, but I did not expect blatant hate.
Can you even read? I said your idea was disgusting, precisely because it places a certain caste of people above others, undeservedly. I hate the idea of a monarchy yes, with all my heart. I ridicule you because your points are ridiculous. Yes modern morality is a human invention, just like monarchy. Your point? Penicillin is a human invention too, and so is nazism. Some inventions are good, some bad. Monarchy is thoroughly terrible. Show nested quote +The OP wanted my opinion which is clear from the first post. I did not expect to be liked in this thread, but I did not expect blatant hate.
You get the responses your posts merit. If you want less hostility, consider making better posts. Show nested quote +
As for your last sentences, the king of Sweden has no army, no power and no might.
I knew you'd say this. Reread the part about the principle and origin of monarchy again. The basic concept of a monarch is based on the idea of the rule of the strong, the king rules because anyone who challenges him will be beaten into submission. The fact that modern monarchies have become a farcical soap opera rather than a political force does not change the fundamental concept.
I would stop replying I think he is a troll.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On April 19 2013 05:16 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 05:15 Jellikit wrote:On April 19 2013 05:07 Yurie wrote:
I'm from one of the monarchies. I have yet to hear an argument for abolishing it that is solid. The modern variant has no power and is a figurehead with less money than large stock owners and less power than elected officials. They bring in a positive in net worth. It's unjust that some people become privileged because of their parents social class This phenomena is hardly unique to Monarchy. In fact, the guise of Republicanism can make hiding inequalities much easier.
monarchy is explicit support of such a hierarchy. people would be far less tolerant of such support if they had to live in a real feudal society for a bit as a serf or something.
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EPT
