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On April 16 2013 16:53 haduken wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 16:49 ETisME wrote:
read about it before, I hope I don't offend any Taiwanese by saying this but I find it a bit fishy:
Taiwan is EXTREMELY sensitive for HTC and samsung competition. Some politicians' choice of phone get flamed on media news if it isn't a HTC and sometimes they would even get asked why not using a HTC phone to support Taiwan industry on camera news.
HTC is under high competitive pressure, especially from Samsung. It isn't doing as well as before anymore, the chinese market didn't like HTC while the oversea is getting smashed by Samsung and Apple.
And to users who aren't aware, Taiwan has a separate political system than the Chinese one That's Taiwan's own damn fault, just look at all the Taiwanese vendors like ASUS, HTC, Gigabyte, same old make cheap alternatives, race to the bottom, flood the market with 10000 products with random product names, shitty generic line ups with no continuity, confuse all consumers, zero innovation or invest into their marketing. Such a shame as the new HTC phones are great products. Is it any wonder they are getting owned by organised competitions?
uhm isnt HTC one of the most expensive smart phone producers?
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On April 16 2013 16:54 Skilledblob wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 16:53 haduken wrote:On April 16 2013 16:49 ETisME wrote:
read about it before, I hope I don't offend any Taiwanese by saying this but I find it a bit fishy:
Taiwan is EXTREMELY sensitive for HTC and samsung competition. Some politicians' choice of phone get flamed on media news if it isn't a HTC and sometimes they would even get asked why not using a HTC phone to support Taiwan industry on camera news.
HTC is under high competitive pressure, especially from Samsung. It isn't doing as well as before anymore, the chinese market didn't like HTC while the oversea is getting smashed by Samsung and Apple.
And to users who aren't aware, Taiwan has a separate political system than the Chinese one That's Taiwan's own damn fault, just look at all the Taiwanese vendors like ASUS, HTC, Gigabyte, same old make cheap alternatives, race to the bottom, flood the market with 10000 products with random product names, shitty generic line ups with no continuity, confuse all consumers, zero innovation or invest into their marketing. Such a shame as the new HTC phones are great products. Is it any wonder they are getting owned by organised competitions? uhm isnt HTC one of the most expensive smart phone producers?
Yeah but so is every other smart phone vendor... but Samsung is making money, they are losing money.
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On April 16 2013 16:32 phodacbiet wrote:
Ah remember the good ol' days when sales depended on how good the product is instead of using slanders to put down competitions?
Was this before the money was invented? Or before the time of trade?
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On April 16 2013 16:54 Skilledblob wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 16:53 haduken wrote:On April 16 2013 16:49 ETisME wrote:
read about it before, I hope I don't offend any Taiwanese by saying this but I find it a bit fishy:
Taiwan is EXTREMELY sensitive for HTC and samsung competition. Some politicians' choice of phone get flamed on media news if it isn't a HTC and sometimes they would even get asked why not using a HTC phone to support Taiwan industry on camera news.
HTC is under high competitive pressure, especially from Samsung. It isn't doing as well as before anymore, the chinese market didn't like HTC while the oversea is getting smashed by Samsung and Apple.
And to users who aren't aware, Taiwan has a separate political system than the Chinese one That's Taiwan's own damn fault, just look at all the Taiwanese vendors like ASUS, HTC, Gigabyte, same old make cheap alternatives, race to the bottom, flood the market with 10000 products with random product names, shitty generic line ups with no continuity, confuse all consumers, zero innovation or invest into their marketing. Such a shame as the new HTC phones are great products. Is it any wonder they are getting owned by organised competitions? uhm isnt HTC one of the most expensive smart phone producers?
their poorest strategy is too much identity crisis for their phone.
if you just look at the name, which phone is the best?
HTC One, One X, One X+
I would expect One X+ to be the best, but One is actually the newest and best of them all.
Another is they have a slightly weaker, but still a premium phone.
Why they fail in chinese market is basically the Chinese are offering similar spec while being much cheaper. Why would you spent so much more when you can either just get a samsung (made in Korea and has all the fuss now) or get a normal chinese brand phone that is much cheaper and perform similarly?
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On April 16 2013 16:32 phodacbiet wrote:
Ah remember the good ol' days when sales depended on how good the product is instead of using slanders to put down competitions?
how old are you?
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On April 16 2013 17:09 ooni wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 16:32 phodacbiet wrote:
Ah remember the good ol' days when sales depended on how good the product is instead of using slanders to put down competitions? Was this before the money was invented? Or before the time of trade?
LOL so true. Slandering, lying, and false advertisement have been around since the dawn of mankind. Hell, even before then. Look at camouflage and flowers, etc. Lying and deception is a part of nature.
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Huh I've never actually thought of this before lol. Hope I don't get banned on my other forums xD I keep saying how TL is the best SCBW/SC2 website there is
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I don't think this is surprising. Anyone remember affinity_12? The same bloke has been doing rounds all around major tech forums and websites like The Verge, Engadget, Hardforum, Anandtech, Whirlpool, and so forth. Its kind of obvious that its him, he has a very specific posting style. Got the fucker banned because dude was shitting in my monitor thread,
I'm fairly sure more companies (hello Nvidia) do this sort of astroturfing but Samsung seems particularly egregious. The more amusing thing is their response. They're not sorry about doing it but they're sorry they got caught doing this, which is what you kind of expect from big business.
On April 16 2013 16:23 Shady Sands wrote:
Remember that Samsung guy that got banned off TL a while ago? It seems like his enthusiasm for Samsung may have been more than voluntary...
This makes Chinese state media's recent bashing of Apple all the more interesting as well. Were they bought off by Samsung too?
No, the two are probably unrelated. Bad news about Apple is par for the course, even if its not so much a problem with Apple but a systemic problem shared by all consumer electronics companies. Its a good opportunity for the Chinese media to promote something negative, fill in air time, as well as promote local brands as being more honest.
Astroturfing by companies is nothing new, especially in industries as tribalistic as the tech industry. Samsung's done this for a pretty long time but its kind of hard to prove a lot of the time. With affinity_12, its fairly obvious because he went through a lot of effort to promote Samsung and trash everything else. Furthermore, the guy spoke in talking points so its even more obvious.
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On April 16 2013 16:38 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 16:35 Melliflue wrote:On April 16 2013 16:23 Shady Sands wrote:
This makes Chinese state media's recent bashing of Apple all the more interesting as well. Were they bought off by Samsung too? Are you suggesting that a company from South Korea bought off Chinese state media? That seems like a massive leap from Samsung paying people to post anonymous comments criticising a rival. It is hardly the first time that somebody or a company has done that, but buying Chinese state media seems a whole new level. It seems more likely to me that the Chinese state has its own reasons for bashing Apple. Also, I am confused by the title. What does "astroturf" mean in this context? To me it is a type of artificial grass... :p http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AstroturfingShow nested quote +Astroturfing refers to political, advertising, or public relations campaigns that are designed to mask the sponsors of the message to give the appearance of coming from a disinterested, grassroots participant. Astroturfing is intended to give the statements the credibility of an independent entity by withholding information about the source's financial connection. The term is a derivation of AstroTurf, a brand of synthetic carpeting designed to look like natural grass.
On April 16 2013 16:39 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 16:35 Melliflue wrote:On April 16 2013 16:23 Shady Sands wrote:
This makes Chinese state media's recent bashing of Apple all the more interesting as well. Were they bought off by Samsung too? Are you suggesting that a company from South Korea bought off Chinese state media? That seems like a massive leap from Samsung paying people to post anonymous comments criticising a rival. It is hardly the first time that somebody or a company has done that, but buying Chinese state media seems a whole new level. It seems more likely to me that the Chinese state has its own reasons for bashing Apple. Also, I am confused by the title. What does "astroturf" mean in this context? To me it is a type of artificial grass... :p Astroturfing
Thanks both of you. I didn't realise it was such a common term now so I thought that googling it would not give me any useful results. I was wrong there :p
This is a bit off-topic: I didn't know the Chinese media could be bought that way but that article is about buying censorship. I still think there's a difference between paying someone to prevent bad things being said about yourself and paying someone to say bad things about a rival.
As for Samsung; they shouldn't have done this but I'm not surprised that they were doing it. I doubt I'd be surprised by any big company doing it.
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I don't care it's all commercial money. What does piss me off is that our GLORIOUS EUSSR dictator spend millions of tax euro's to hire internet trolls glorifying the EU on the internet..
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On April 16 2013 16:53 haduken wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 16:49 ETisME wrote:
read about it before, I hope I don't offend any Taiwanese by saying this but I find it a bit fishy:
Taiwan is EXTREMELY sensitive for HTC and samsung competition. Some politicians' choice of phone get flamed on media news if it isn't a HTC and sometimes they would even get asked why not using a HTC phone to support Taiwan industry on camera news.
HTC is under high competitive pressure, especially from Samsung. It isn't doing as well as before anymore, the chinese market didn't like HTC while the oversea is getting smashed by Samsung and Apple.
And to users who aren't aware, Taiwan has a separate political system than the Chinese one That's Taiwan's own damn fault, just look at all the Taiwanese vendors like ASUS, HTC, Gigabyte, same old make cheap alternatives, race to the bottom, flood the market with 10000 products with random product names, shitty generic line ups with no continuity, confuse all consumers, zero innovation or invest into their marketing. Such a shame as the new HTC phones are great products. Is it any wonder they are getting owned by organised competitions?
Is this really how HTC is percieved in Australia or elsewhere? Because among my friends HTC is considered more of a premium brand, at least compared to shit like LG, Sony, or god forbid ZTE or Huawei. Yes, Samsung would be on par (Apple is a manufacturer of toys for kids and thus irrelevant), but not really valued more than HTC.
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Baltimore, USA22250 Posts
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5930 Posts
On April 16 2013 17:46 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 16:53 haduken wrote:On April 16 2013 16:49 ETisME wrote:
read about it before, I hope I don't offend any Taiwanese by saying this but I find it a bit fishy:
Taiwan is EXTREMELY sensitive for HTC and samsung competition. Some politicians' choice of phone get flamed on media news if it isn't a HTC and sometimes they would even get asked why not using a HTC phone to support Taiwan industry on camera news.
HTC is under high competitive pressure, especially from Samsung. It isn't doing as well as before anymore, the chinese market didn't like HTC while the oversea is getting smashed by Samsung and Apple.
And to users who aren't aware, Taiwan has a separate political system than the Chinese one That's Taiwan's own damn fault, just look at all the Taiwanese vendors like ASUS, HTC, Gigabyte, same old make cheap alternatives, race to the bottom, flood the market with 10000 products with random product names, shitty generic line ups with no continuity, confuse all consumers, zero innovation or invest into their marketing. Such a shame as the new HTC phones are great products. Is it any wonder they are getting owned by organised competitions? Is this really how HTC is percieved in Australia or elsewhere? Because among my friends HTC is considered more of a premium brand, at least compared to shit like LG, Sony, or god forbid ZTE or Huawei. Yes, Samsung would be on par (Apple is a manufacturer of toys for kids and thus irrelevant), but not really valued more than HTC.
Samsung is definitely the top tier Android smartphone manufacturer as a result of an obscene advertising budget, good enough phones to justify the advertising claims, and carrier presence. HTC, LG, Sony don't have anywhere near the same amount of advertising or carrier presence so they've been regulated to the "cheap pack", through Sony seems to pushing extremely hard for more market share. Their flagship phones aren't without problems but they've had a top tier midrange for at least a year.
HTC's poor branding is an issue but the bigger problem is that Samsung can just shout over everyone else. They're the only ones that can actually get all of their phones on a carrier and in the United States (and Australia too), that's a really important thing. The branding thing is a problem with HTC but it honestly isn't any different from Samsung pumping out a billion different variants of Galaxy phones. The difference is that carriers actively advertise the Galaxy S flagship.
Also, come on Apple devices being toys for kids? Really? Let's not go there OK?
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On April 16 2013 17:13 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 17:09 ooni wrote:On April 16 2013 16:32 phodacbiet wrote:
Ah remember the good ol' days when sales depended on how good the product is instead of using slanders to put down competitions? Was this before the money was invented? Or before the time of trade? LOL so true. Slandering, lying, and false advertisement have been around since the dawn of mankind. Hell, even before then. Look at camouflage and flowers, etc. Lying and deception is a part of nature.
Remember the time when people remembered the past accurately? :D
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I'm sure Samsung's eSports budget will be fine, they can and should get fucked on this issue. I'm sure it will result in a maximum penalty of a public apology plus a fine consisting of an inconsequential amount of money to a company like Samsung.
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Annoying, not surprising. Still like my Samsung phone though. 
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On April 16 2013 16:32 phodacbiet wrote:
Ah remember the good ol' days when sales depended on how good the product is instead of using slanders to put down competitions?
Are you the guy from The Man From Earth?
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I remember back when HTC used to produce the best smartphones, but then they just had 0 innovation after the "desire" and completely fell off the radar.
They probably thought they could pull an Apple and continue producing overpriced clones of the same thing over and over but I guess they forgot that you needed to establish an overzealous fanbase first.
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On April 16 2013 18:52 sluggaslamoo wrote:
I remember back when HTC used to produce the best smartphones, but then they just had 0 innovation after the "desire" and completely fell off the radar.
They probably thought they could pull an Apple and continue producing overpriced clones of the same thing over and over but I guess they forgot that you needed to establish an overzealous fanbase first.
What is innovation to you?
Innovation for the sake of innovation doesn't sell products. Complete packages sell products. That's why Samsung has, theoretically, the best Android smartphone on the market: the Galaxy S lineup doesn't have any real flaws besides kind of questionable material choices. That's why the iPad is still the tablet market leader: it still has one of the best screens, unquestionable GPU power, and obscene battery size. That's why Apple devices are able to sell for high prices: because the overall hardware and software package is mostly complete. Don't kid yourself, Samsung and everyone else all have their own overzealous fanbases. That's to be expected.
What makes HTC phones a harder sell is the lack of attention to detail. Sense, for a long time, has been complete rubbish in terms of performance. They also have a nasty habit of packing fairly small batteries into their phones and dropping support for their phones extremely quickly. That's why they're doing poorly, just like LG's or Sony Ericsson's inability to update their phones on time (if at all). There isn't a conspiracy theory why brand x sells well and why brand y sells badly.
The problem here is that, although the HTC One has solved many of these problems, it can't get a market foothold. Some of the reasons include launching too close to the Galaxy S4 announcement/too late after the Sony Xperia Z launch but the main reason is that HTC isn't the the darling OEM of the carriers anymore and they don't have the advertising budget to make sure their device is seen over other competitors. Component delays don't help things either.
As noted by the OP's article, Samsung can literally pay some people to spread bad news about the phone and they can't do anything to combat it besides asking the government to step in. They can't compete against Samsung's marketing budget nor can create enough noise to get rid of constant "complaints" about the HTC One. By the time the government finds Samsung guilty (or not), its too late since HTC One has already missed its launch period.
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On April 16 2013 17:55 Womwomwom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 17:46 opisska wrote:On April 16 2013 16:53 haduken wrote:On April 16 2013 16:49 ETisME wrote:
read about it before, I hope I don't offend any Taiwanese by saying this but I find it a bit fishy:
Taiwan is EXTREMELY sensitive for HTC and samsung competition. Some politicians' choice of phone get flamed on media news if it isn't a HTC and sometimes they would even get asked why not using a HTC phone to support Taiwan industry on camera news.
HTC is under high competitive pressure, especially from Samsung. It isn't doing as well as before anymore, the chinese market didn't like HTC while the oversea is getting smashed by Samsung and Apple.
And to users who aren't aware, Taiwan has a separate political system than the Chinese one That's Taiwan's own damn fault, just look at all the Taiwanese vendors like ASUS, HTC, Gigabyte, same old make cheap alternatives, race to the bottom, flood the market with 10000 products with random product names, shitty generic line ups with no continuity, confuse all consumers, zero innovation or invest into their marketing. Such a shame as the new HTC phones are great products. Is it any wonder they are getting owned by organised competitions? Is this really how HTC is percieved in Australia or elsewhere? Because among my friends HTC is considered more of a premium brand, at least compared to shit like LG, Sony, or god forbid ZTE or Huawei. Yes, Samsung would be on par (Apple is a manufacturer of toys for kids and thus irrelevant), but not really valued more than HTC. Samsung is definitely the top tier Android smartphone manufacturer as a result of an obscene advertising budget, good enough phones to justify the advertising claims, and carrier presence. HTC, LG, Sony don't have anywhere near the same amount of advertising or carrier presence so they've been regulated to the "cheap pack", through Sony seems to pushing extremely hard for more market share. Their flagship phones aren't without problems but they've had a top tier midrange for at least a year. HTC's poor branding is an issue but the bigger problem is that Samsung can just shout over everyone else. They're the only ones that can actually get all of their phones on a carrier and in the United States (and Australia too), that's a really important thing. The branding thing is a problem with HTC but it honestly isn't any different from Samsung pumping out a billion different variants of Galaxy phones. The difference is that carriers actively advertise the Galaxy S flagship. Also, come on Apple devices being toys for kids? Really? Let's not go there OK?
The Apple remark could have been done better, I agree. Just the point was that in the social group where most of my firends are, this is the perception - almost noone has an iPhone, partly because it would be just considered childish, partly because they really believe that it is not a good idea to buy one. This fact prevents the other brands from being "smashed" by Apple. Also in general, I believe that Apple's marketshare in everything is much lower in Czech than in the US, largely due to the widespread notion that iStuff is "snobbish".
The carrier thing is interesting - I have honestly no ideawhat phones are offered by carriers, it's not really profillic in here. Most of the people I know buy smartphones from computer vendors anyway.
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EPT
