Margaret Thatcher dies at age 87 - Page 4

On April 08 2013 22:29 IRL_Sinister wrote:


I'm with this.

On April 08 2013 23:38 Iyerbeth wrote:
I can't even think of anything approaching nice to say about this woman. She wasn't doing anything these days so it's not like her death is amazing news in the way the death of an oppressive dictator might, but all the same I'm certainly not sad to hear the news.

Unforunately I think we're now even going to give her a state funeral? Disgusting.

On April 08 2013 23:43 Gowerly wrote:

If we did give her a state funeral it would be against her wishes.

On April 08 2013 23:15 Zaros wrote:


I would and i'm sure many others would too.

On April 08 2013 23:51 Gowerly wrote:
BBC reports: She will not have a state funeral but will be accorded the same status as Princess Diana and the Queen Mother.

Earlier it said "She will not receive a State Funeral in accordance with her wishes". I dislike this new version a bit less. It seems against her whole career. I'd be happy to privatise out her funeral.

Sad day for the world indeed....

This demand for respectful silence in the wake of a public figure's death is not just misguided but dangerous. That one should not speak ill of the dead is arguably appropriate when a private person dies, but it is wildly inappropriate for the death of a controversial public figure, particularly one who wielded significant influence and political power. "Respecting the grief" of Thatcher family's members is appropriate if one is friends with them or attends a wake they organize, but the protocols are fundamentally different when it comes to public discourse about the person's life and political acts. I made this argument at length last year when Christopher Hitchens died and a speak-no-ill rule about him was instantly imposed (a rule he, more than anyone, viciously violated), and I won't repeat that argument today; those interested can read my reasoning here.

But the key point is this: those who admire the deceased public figure (and their politics) aren't silent at all. They are aggressively exploiting the emotions generated by the person's death to create hagiography. Typifying these highly dubious claims was this (appropriately diplomatic) statement from President Obama: "The world has lost one of the great champions of freedom and liberty, and America has lost a true friend." Those gushing depictions can be incredibly consequential, as it was for the week-long tidal wave of unbroken reverence that was heaped on Ronald Reagan upon his death, an episode that to this day shapes how Americans view him and the political ideas he symbolized. Demanding that no criticisms be voiced to counter that hagiography is to enable false history and a propagandistic whitewashing of bad acts, distortions that become quickly ossified and then endure by virtue of no opposition and the powerful emotions created by death. When a political leader dies, it is irresponsible in the extreme to demand that only praise be permitted but not criticisms.

Whatever else may be true of her, Thatcher engaged in incredibly consequential acts that affected millions of people around the world. She played a key role not only in bringing about the first Gulf War but also using her influence to publicly advocate for the 2003 attack on Iraq. She denounced Nelson Mandela and his ANC as "terrorists", something even David Cameron ultimately admitted was wrong. She was a steadfast friend to brutal tyrants such as Augusto Pinochet, Saddam Hussein and Indonesian dictator General Suharto ("One of our very best and most valuable friends"). And as my Guardian colleague Seumas Milne detailed last year, "across Britain Thatcher is still hated for the damage she inflicted – and for her political legacy of rampant inequality and greed, privatisation and social breakdown."

On April 09 2013 00:00 ZenithM wrote:

I don't know if "sad" really is the word. She was 87 after all.