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Margaret Thatcher dies at age 87 - Page 5

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Sgany
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United Kingdom790 Posts
April 08 2013 15:43 GMT
#81
R.I.P A truly great leader who served her country well.
NaDa <3, MMA <3, Bisu <3,
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10700 Posts
April 08 2013 15:44 GMT
#82
Isn't that what happened in the UK anyway?
NEEDZMOAR
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Sweden1277 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-08 15:51:40
April 08 2013 15:49 GMT
#83
On April 09 2013 00:35 Zystra wrote:
Too many Socialists in this thread.



Not really trying to derail this thread with a political debate, but I think she hit the nail on the head here. Socialists harp on about how much the 1% earn. Well listen to this, if we were to tax the 1% to the point that they lose more than half of their earnings, they will take their businesses, their ideas, their knowledge and their intellect elsewhere which will doom the other 99% to being much poorer.

Well Said and RIP Mags.



Disgusting, incredibly disgusting.

Rest in Peace Thatcher, the world certainly doesn't need the politics of yours to make a comeback.

Oh what am I saying,. its already here...


Keldrath
Profile Joined July 2010
United States449 Posts
April 08 2013 15:51 GMT
#84
She deeply wanted Britain to be great.

That's the only nice thing I can say about her.
If you want peace... prepare for war.
maartendq
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Belgium3115 Posts
April 08 2013 16:04 GMT
#85
On April 09 2013 00:35 Zystra wrote:
Too many Socialists in this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okHGCz6xxiw

Not really trying to derail this thread with a political debate, but I think she hit the nail on the head here. Socialists harp on about how much the 1% earn. Well listen to this, if we were to tax the 1% to the point that they lose more than half of their earnings, they will take their businesses, their ideas, their knowledge and their intellect elsewhere which will doom the other 99% to being much poorer.

Well Said and RIP Mags.

On the other hand you have top economists like J. Stiglitz saying that more equality would actually make the economy a lot more efficient. Equality would benefit EVERYONE instead of just a few tax evaders at the top. If you really want some downright disturbing figures, I suggest you read The Price of Inequality by J. Stiglitz.

1 in 6 Americans (US) live in poverty.
25% of all children in the US grow up in poverty.

Ever since the crisis hit in 2008, unemployment has been increasing all over Europe. The cause of that crisis was a completely deregulated financial market, something Thatcher helped build. How anyone can back those ideas is beyond me, but those who do are generally from families who are well off. It's basically like a king sitting on a golden throne shouting at the poor that it's their fault that they are poor, while he could just melt his throne, share some of it with the poor and have them be more productive, resulting in a stronger economy.

Then again, in Europe anno 2013 it's all about "Me, myself and I". Who cares if others are suffering, as long as I get my money.
noddyz
Profile Joined October 2008
United Kingdom462 Posts
April 08 2013 16:04 GMT
#86
Bury her deep.
?
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
April 08 2013 16:05 GMT
#87
I think a lot of people here forget that she was a Cold Warrior. She did the things she did because she was trying to WIN the cold war. Britain is one of the US's closest allies and everything she did was because of the political world she lived in. People now look back on it and think about how "horrible" she was, when in reality she was making the best decisions she thought she possibly could in the moment. I respect her as a politician but disagree with the decisions she made given the information we have now.
User was warned for too many mimes.
YMCApylons
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Taiwan359 Posts
April 08 2013 16:05 GMT
#88
She also thought the Euro was a terrible idea.



RIP Margaret Thatcher, Iron Lady, more of a man than all the PMs who followed her combined. Sadly, your service will not be appreciated, because it's apparently cool to hate you.
You must construct additional pylons.
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
April 08 2013 16:11 GMT
#89
Sad when someone dies, always, whether or not I agreed with them.
MoonBear
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
April 08 2013 16:18 GMT
#90
I understand that Margaret Thatcher is a very divisive figure in British politics and there are some very strong views on either side. However, wishing ill upon someone or their family after their death is incredibly tactless and vile. You are not required to be sad, nor express your condolences if you have none. However, regular moderation standard still apply here. If you don't want to say anything constructive, perhaps it is best not to post.

If you wish to engage in a discussion regarding Thatcher's legacy rather than her death itself, that should be fine. However, be aware of derailing incredibly hard and starting pointless flame wars. Regular forum rules apply.
ModeratorA dream. Do you have one that has cursed you like that? Or maybe... a wish?
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42654 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-08 16:28:15
April 08 2013 16:25 GMT
#91
On April 09 2013 00:26 BioNova wrote:
Greetings TL. I'm going to leave three paragraphs that sum up the first 4 pages of this thread.

Show nested quote +
This demand for respectful silence in the wake of a public figure's death is not just misguided but dangerous. That one should not speak ill of the dead is arguably appropriate when a private person dies, but it is wildly inappropriate for the death of a controversial public figure, particularly one who wielded significant influence and political power. "Respecting the grief" of Thatcher family's members is appropriate if one is friends with them or attends a wake they organize, but the protocols are fundamentally different when it comes to public discourse about the person's life and political acts. I made this argument at length last year when Christopher Hitchens died and a speak-no-ill rule about him was instantly imposed (a rule he, more than anyone, viciously violated), and I won't repeat that argument today; those interested can read my reasoning here.

But the key point is this: those who admire the deceased public figure (and their politics) aren't silent at all. They are aggressively exploiting the emotions generated by the person's death to create hagiography. Typifying these highly dubious claims was this (appropriately diplomatic) statement from President Obama: "The world has lost one of the great champions of freedom and liberty, and America has lost a true friend." Those gushing depictions can be incredibly consequential, as it was for the week-long tidal wave of unbroken reverence that was heaped on Ronald Reagan upon his death, an episode that to this day shapes how Americans view him and the political ideas he symbolized. Demanding that no criticisms be voiced to counter that hagiography is to enable false history and a propagandistic whitewashing of bad acts, distortions that become quickly ossified and then endure by virtue of no opposition and the powerful emotions created by death. When a political leader dies, it is irresponsible in the extreme to demand that only praise be permitted but not criticisms.

Whatever else may be true of her, Thatcher engaged in incredibly consequential acts that affected millions of people around the world. She played a key role not only in bringing about the first Gulf War but also using her influence to publicly advocate for the 2003 attack on Iraq. She denounced Nelson Mandela and his ANC as "terrorists", something even David Cameron ultimately admitted was wrong. She was a steadfast friend to brutal tyrants such as Augusto Pinochet, Saddam Hussein and Indonesian dictator General Suharto ("One of our very best and most valuable friends"). And as my Guardian colleague Seumas Milne detailed last year, "across Britain Thatcher is still hated for the damage she inflicted – and for her political legacy of rampant inequality and greed, privatisation and social breakdown."


Glenn Greenwald+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-etiquette


No parties here, no tears either.

Glenn Greenwald is fucking retarded. "She used her influence to publicly advocate for the 2003 attack on Iraq" "She played a key role in bringing about the first Gulf War" "She was a steadfast friend to Saddam Hussein"
Someone should proofread his editorials for internal consistency because he clearly doesn't. It reads like a list of everything guardian readers hate with Thatcher's name pinned onto it.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42654 Posts
April 08 2013 16:36 GMT
#92
Also anyone unfamiliar with Thatcher would do well to read this, one of her more memorable moments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brighton_hotel_bombing

At 3 am she's still up working on her speech when an IRA bomb destroys much of her hotel, including her suite, and kills many innocent people. Just an hour after the attempt on her life she's on television showing the country she is still very much alive and capable of leadership. They open Marks and Spencer, a high street clothing shop, early so people can find something to wear and she goes on to the Conservative Party conference as planned, giving her first speech at 9:30 am.

"We suffered a tragedy not one of us could have thought would happen in our country. And we picked ourselves up and sorted ourselves out as all good British people do, and I thought, let us stand together for we are British! They were trying to destroy the fundamental freedom that is the birth-right of every British citizen, freedom, justice and democracy".
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Asymmetric
Profile Joined June 2011
Scotland1309 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-08 16:42:42
April 08 2013 16:39 GMT
#93
I will be polite.

She was loathed, for good reason, in the North. You would probably have to go as far back as the 18th century Prince William Augustus, Duke of Cumberland to find a domestic politician more widely hated than her in Scotland.

RIP to the victims of General Pinochet, her nearest and dearest friend.
Dapper_Cad
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United Kingdom964 Posts
April 08 2013 16:44 GMT
#94
Well that's a fucking retarded post Kwark being as it doesn't address the point made in the quote you quote. A point which is well made. Right now there is an ongoing wall to wall news tongue kiss to this woman going on on the news channels. All the news channels. The fig leaf used is "She was a controversial figure" or "She had her detractors" then 9 minutes of a heroic narrative and one minute of some nerd going "inequality is bad".

I'm not ok with this. The best I can say about her is that she wasn't just another free market crack pot. She was in the first wave of really powerful western free market crack pots.

The only inconsistency I can see in the quotes you use is the use of the word "steadfast". Perhaps "fair weather" would be better.
But he is never making short-term prediction, everyone of his prediction are based on fundenmentals, but he doesn't exactly know when it will happen... So using these kind of narrowed "who-is-right" empirical analysis makes little sense.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42654 Posts
April 08 2013 16:49 GMT
#95
I don't disagree with his point about hagiography of the dead but following it with a list that is clearly nonsense and flat out claims that she both supported the dictator in everything he did (because guardian readers hate dictators) and at the same time supported the war to depose and kill the dictator (because guardian readers hate war) is ridiculous. It completely undermined an otherwise good point because it didn't make any kind of sense. If she supported war against Saddam Hussein in 1993 and then again in 2003 then she was not a steadfast friend of Saddam Hussein.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Blargh
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2102 Posts
April 08 2013 16:50 GMT
#96
The only sad thing here is how much of a disaster this thread has been

Honestly, I didn't care much for her, but there's worse people, too. At least she actually did something =/. I'm an American, so I cannot really speak on the matter personally, anyway.
Spekulatius
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany2413 Posts
April 08 2013 16:51 GMT
#97
RIP.
Always smile~
hypercube
Profile Joined April 2010
Hungary2735 Posts
April 08 2013 16:53 GMT
#98
On April 09 2013 01:18 MoonBear wrote:
I understand that Margaret Thatcher is a very divisive figure in British politics and there are some very strong views on either side. However, wishing ill upon someone or their family after their death is incredibly tactless and vile. You are not required to be sad, nor express your condolences if you have none. However, regular moderation standard still apply here. If you don't want to say anything constructive, perhaps it is best not to post.

If you wish to engage in a discussion regarding Thatcher's legacy rather than her death itself, that should be fine. However, be aware of derailing incredibly hard and starting pointless flame wars. Regular forum rules apply.


The problem with these threads is that praising, or expressing agreement with her policies is fine, while sharp criticism is usually frowned upon.

Obviously, expressing satisfaction over someone's death is tactless (not that I've seen anyone do that) but why should praise be appropriate and criticism not?
"Sending people in rockets to other planets is a waste of money better spent on sending rockets into people on this planet."
Incze
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Romania2058 Posts
April 08 2013 16:54 GMT
#99
God, I loved those tapes of hers. Great woman, sad to see her go
Religion: Buckethead
Dapper_Cad
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United Kingdom964 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-08 17:03:04
April 08 2013 17:02 GMT
#100
I don't know, calling a whole person "fucking retarded" because he once had the word "steadfast" published when he shouldn't have seems a little overboard to me.

She was an important figure. We should discuss her. But what's going on on T.V. right now isn't a discussion it's propaganda in action and I'd love to see TL avoid the worst of it. Backseat moderation is a crime but... well... fuck it. Here would not be a terrible place to look if one wonders what constitutes too far when detracting the dead.

On March 06 2013 08:44 Zato-1 wrote:
I am glad he died. He inflicted so much pain and misery on the people of Venezuela, progressively ruining that country- South America will be much better off without the rampant populism of this man who was elected democratically but ruled like a dictator, making a mockery of democratic separation of powers, persecuting all dissenting voices, shutting down all media outlets that had enough integrity to stand against him, confiscating private property as he pleased then running it to the ground, like Venezuela's once prosperous metals industries.

I hope that now, the people of Venezuela will be able to climb out of the rancid pit that Hugo Chavez has put them in.


Was fine.

On March 07 2013 06:05 DeepElemBlues wrote:
I hope he's having fun burning in hell.

User was warned for this post


Was not.
But he is never making short-term prediction, everyone of his prediction are based on fundenmentals, but he doesn't exactly know when it will happen... So using these kind of narrowed "who-is-right" empirical analysis makes little sense.
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