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And here we go again, always the same problem the people that wants to change the money because they have enough money to get out of the country and make profit of it.
Deal with it, it helps most of the people maybe not the people that wishes to get out of Venezuela, but it does for the majority and thats why he keeps getting reelected, once again, deal with it.
Of course my work situation wont get better. In spain we have 25% unemployed people that makes 5.040.000 people without a job (not counting the students or the old people) for the youth the unemployment rate is higher than 50%.
Meanwhile in Venezuela a 3rd world country 5.4% of unemployment... oh yea... Chavez is so bad.
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On March 08 2013 01:21 arChieSC2 wrote:
And here we go again, always the same problem the people that wants to change the money because they have enough money to get out of the country and make profit of it.
Deal with it, it helps most of the people maybe not the people that wishes to get out of Venezuela, but it does for the majority and thats why he keeps getting reelected, once again, deal with it.
In which part of my posts did I make any comments on "getting out of Venezuela"?
I was gonna keep on writing here, but meh, it's useless.  .
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On March 08 2013 00:41 funkie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 00:04 arChieSC2 wrote:On March 08 2013 00:00 Asvhald wrote:
RIP Chavez, always in our hearts.
His government may have had a ton of flaws, but I'd have exchanged him in an eyeblink for the bullshit oligarchy puppets we are forced to suffer through here in Spain.
In. An. Eyeblink.
This world desperately needs more people who fight the same fight Chavez did. The dream lives on :D. That's right  Wanna trade? I bet you'd love Chavez's doings (or for that matter now, Maduro's) in Spain. That'd be fun to watch. Si no lo viviste aqui, entonces no creo que tengas mucha potestad de decir u opinar sobre como goberno, tampoco tienes que dejarte llevar por todo lo que dicen los websites (pro y en contra). En fin..
Bro, here we have a whopping 26.2% unemployment rate (and double that for people under 25 years) which keeps rising, our government bails banks out with public money while people kill themselves every second day over losing their homes to foreclosure due to inflated-to-hell mortgage appraisals by banks during the housing bubble. That, while they erode, decree by decree, in the blink of an eye, our rights, social security and public safety nets that took decades and so much blood to achieve. The last labour market reform made it so people can get fired without a dime just for being sick for about 20 days in a year, among many other "delicacies".
And all that, while the oligarchy across the continent (their true masters) increases their benefits by double digits percentage.
So yes, I bet I'd love something like Chavez here in Spain. Very much so. I'd vote for him in a goddamn heartbeat.
I know some people from Venezuela who complain about Chavez, as is their right of course but, coincidentally they are all of snow-white origin and over here instead of over there. Bet you all were better when 70% of the country was below the poverty threshold?
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On March 08 2013 01:22 funkie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 01:21 arChieSC2 wrote:
And here we go again, always the same problem the people that wants to change the money because they have enough money to get out of the country and make profit of it.
Deal with it, it helps most of the people maybe not the people that wishes to get out of Venezuela, but it does for the majority and thats why he keeps getting reelected, once again, deal with it. In which part of my posts did I make any comments on "getting out of Venezuela"? I was gonna keep on writing here, but meh, it's useless. .
Sell in Bs.F and buy in Bs.F and u wont have any problem.
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It's silly to compare Spain and Venezuela like that. It's not only because of the recent leadership in both of these countries that they ended up like that. If Chavez was in Spain, Spain's economy wouldn't have improved the way Venezuela's has, and it's also silly to ignore things like the gigantic increase in the price of oil when looking at Venezuela. Spain isn't the only european country with issues as well afaik.
It makes sense to believe the situation in Venezuela would have improved economically with another kind of leadership as well, and the question of whether it would have improved more than it currently has is not as simple as you are making it out to be. You can't just say "unemployment rates are low, it was obviously a good governament".
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On March 08 2013 02:14 SKC wrote:
It's silly to compare Spain and Venezuela like that. It's not only because of the recent leadership in both of these countries that they ended up like that. If Chavez was in Spain, Spain's economy wouldn't have improved the way Venezuela's has, and it's also silly to ignore things like the gigantic increase in the price of oil when looking at Venezuela. Spain isn't the only european country with issues as well afaik.
It makes sense to believe the situation in Venezuela would have improved economically with another kind of leadership as well, and the question of whether it would have improved more than it currently has is not as simple as you are making it out to be. You can't just say "unemployment rates are low, it was obviously a good governament".
No. I'm saying I support Chavez's priorities and allegiances as a ruler, as in using the country's resources to help his people, especially the poor ones, rather than what is being done here (polar opposite).
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On March 06 2013 08:07 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 07:26 sam!zdat wrote:
I like to see people stand up to America. We need more of that. The man attempted a military coup, you don't get to talk shit about the elected leaders of any other country when you think it's okay to seize power by force.
im glad such a complex situation and the History of Coups and Military Juntas in Latin America has been boiled down to such an incredibly hypocritical comment like that.
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On March 08 2013 02:14 SKC wrote:
It's silly to compare Spain and Venezuela like that. It's not only because of the recent leadership in both of these countries that they ended up like that. If Chavez was in Spain, Spain's economy wouldn't have improved the way Venezuela's has, and it's also silly to ignore things like the gigantic increase in the price of oil when looking at Venezuela. Spain isn't the only european country with issues as well afaik.
It makes sense to believe the situation in Venezuela would have improved economically with another kind of leadership as well, and the question of whether it would have improved more than it currently has is not as simple as you are making it out to be. You can't just say "unemployment rates are low, it was obviously a good governament".
Well put, this is the way to think about it.
I grew up in Venezuela and my parents left a few years after Chavez came into power because it was clear he meant to change the way business is/was done. There are a lot of topics to cover here:
1) First people are right when they say he focused on people in need. There are a lot of programs for education and food for people in need. That being said, these are not the most efficient system possible. Some of this are corrupt and have't really provided a distinct benefit.
2) He has nationalize many indutries, and you know what I am OK with that but the problem is when he drives them to the ground after doing so. The hydro electric generation has not increased in the last 10 years, there has been no reliable infrastructural improvement or maintenance to my knowledge. If this source of energy fails there wont be talking about turning the lights of here and there every other day (like they already do, which is bad) but about more serious problems.
3) Curroption in higher goverment. This has always been the case in Venezuela, I am too young to compare my self but i do hear it is much worse than the average. The people that have gotten (significantly) rich in the last 10 years have all been connected to the goverment, and there never seems to be any intention on cracking down on them... we are talking about people starting thier own line of restaurants while being part of a cabinet...
Regarding employment, this is a very interesting topic, i do believe they are lucky because there are enough exports to keep jobs going but people are being underpaid, this have not improved for the middle class it has only gotten worse.
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With all the respect, we are fucked here in Spain, yes, but we are still miles and heaps and bounds less fucked than people living in Venezuela.
I don't know if you noticed, but you have to go to the black market to get a handful of dollars. In Spain, you just have to walk into one of these corrupted banks and ask for it. Yes, they will screw the rate for you and make money out of you, but they won't sell them to you at 4 times their market value.
And in these sort of situations, people want to get a hold of dollars because they fear their national currency will devalue overnight and they will suddenly become (a lot more) poor. Imagine what would happen if one day you wake up and a leaf of bread costs 10€? and the next day 50€? While the dollar conversion is 1$ to 10€ the first day, 1$ to 50€ the next day. What would you rather do with those 100€ you have at hand right now? Buy dollars of course, and not because you want to make a trip to LA, but to keep being able to buy bread.
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People from other countries cant really make an informed opinion on Chavez goverment, you cant really know how it is to live there, it isnt something you can read on the newspaper or in the internet, the rampant insecurity, criminals kill on the street in plain day light and they never get caught, almost a quarter million people died by violence in this last 10 years and its getting worse and worse to the point where its out of control, members of the army and police kidnapping and murdering people, we are at a point where is more dangerous a police officer than a thief, the situation its so common that I have been mugged several times with a gun pointed at my face (once by a member of the army), and you know what? the sad thing is that everyone has and its so common that you get use to it, our currency the Bolivar dropped its value in more than 1000% in the last 10 years, so NO, he did not made our country better in any way, he got his huge support because he did a lot for the poor, which is not bad, but in the process he destroyed our country.
EDIT: And btw is not that the poors are better now, they are still poor.
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On March 08 2013 01:24 Asvhald wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 00:41 funkie wrote:On March 08 2013 00:04 arChieSC2 wrote:On March 08 2013 00:00 Asvhald wrote:
RIP Chavez, always in our hearts.
His government may have had a ton of flaws, but I'd have exchanged him in an eyeblink for the bullshit oligarchy puppets we are forced to suffer through here in Spain.
In. An. Eyeblink.
This world desperately needs more people who fight the same fight Chavez did. The dream lives on :D. That's right Wanna trade? I bet you'd love Chavez's doings (or for that matter now, Maduro's) in Spain. That'd be fun to watch. Si no lo viviste aqui, entonces no creo que tengas mucha potestad de decir u opinar sobre como goberno, tampoco tienes que dejarte llevar por todo lo que dicen los websites (pro y en contra). En fin.. Bro, here we have a whopping 26.2% unemployment rate (and double that for people under 25 years) which keeps rising, our government bails banks out with public money while people kill themselves every second day over losing their homes to foreclosure due to inflated-to-hell mortgage appraisals by banks during the housing bubble. That, while they erode, decree by decree, in the blink of an eye, our rights, social security and public safety nets that took decades and so much blood to achieve. The last labour market reform made it so people can get fired without a dime just for being sick for about 20 days in a year, among many other "delicacies". And all that, while the oligarchy across the continent (their true masters) increases their benefits by double digits percentage. So yes, I bet I'd love something like Chavez here in Spain. Very much so. I'd vote for him in a goddamn heartbeat.I know some people from Venezuela who complain about Chavez, as is their right of course but, coincidentally they are all of snow-white origin and over here instead of over there. Bet you all were better when 70% of the country was below the poverty threshold?
Man, what is your point? That life in Venezuela is better than in Spain? That is ridiculous. And lol even if it were true have you weighted how much of Venezuela's prosperity is due to being oil rich??? What Chavez has to do with that?
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On March 06 2013 07:03 Heinsenzerg wrote:
Condolences to the people of Venezuela. Stay strong
We are together
On March 06 2013 07:04 crazyweasel wrote:
hasta la victoria!!!
We are together indeed, and here we go one more time, add this one to the list of people who decides to fight against the interests of "America" and ends up dead.
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oh, the all powerfull dolar
you live and breathe by it don´t you
(edit: nor refered to you obviously)
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On March 08 2013 03:29 danbel1005 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 07:03 Heinsenzerg wrote:
Condolences to the people of Venezuela. Stay strong
We are together We are together indeed, and here we go one more time, add this one to the list of people who decides to fight against the interests of "America" and ends up dead.
is not like he was murdered.. we allend up dead : /
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
I have a friend in Venezuela (mid-thirties, if you were wondering - he was around before Chavez), who just sent me and a couple of friends an update on the Venezuela situation from their perspective, and I figured it could be interesting.
Ok folks, an update on the Venezuela situation.
Lol, I really need to keep up on my own laws. But ever since Chavez got into power, our constitution has been amended, edited, hotfixed, retconed, buffed, nerfed, tweaked, and adjusted, that I have no idea where does it starts nor where it ends.
Literally every day they'd remove or add a new article to it, or edit/tweak an old article on it.
Well, turns out we MAY have some good changes quicker than expected.
On my last post I had told you guys that for the time being we're screwed, because even though Chavez died, he had won the October presidential elections, thus putting the PCV in power, so even in death, the PCV is still in power and we'd have to wait till the next elections, 7 years from now before we have another chance to put someone from the UNT in the presidential seat.
Turns out that's how the OLD law worked, chavez had made (as usual) another change to the constitution without consulting with the people, there was no voting on this. If a president dies before his term is up, rather than the Vice-president being sworn in to fill in his office till the end of that constitutional period, we will have again presidential elections.
At first I was like "ohh yeah, what good that'll do? I bet that since the president that died was PCV, that means only PCV candidates can run for presidency, so its just the PCV choosing who's gonna rule"
Turns out that's not the case, we're having ACTUAL presidential elections, the whole campaign, and anyone from any political party can run for presidency, which means Capriles, can run again, and hopefully actually win this time (Which I'm actually somewhat optimistic, since Capriles Vs Chavez ended up in Chavez having a victory with just a 10% margin. So Capriles against a much less powerful candidate SHOULD win).
For the time being, we're having 7 days of national mourning (enforced at gunpoint by national guards, the army, and the police, public displays of celebration are not allowed, if you wanna celebrate, do so behind closed doors, and without making much noise) and then 30 days from now, they'll announce the date of the next presidential elections.
Wish us luck folks, we may actually have some improvement quicker than expected. Of course, Chavez had established quite a cult to himself before kicking the bucket, there's a LOT of brainwashed idiots who genuely did followed him, and no matter how hard they were smitten by the whips, they just kept asking for more, the guy is really good at this brainwashing stuff, so those zombies "could" (I'm hoping not) still outnumber the actual sane people. We'll see.
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We knew exactly that information for some (long) time now
seems your friend doesn´t know jack shiet about his own country
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They literally said you can celebrate in private over Chavez's death, or is it just people trying to dodge the national guard?
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United States44203 Posts
On March 08 2013 03:29 danbel1005 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 07:03 Heinsenzerg wrote:
Condolences to the people of Venezuela. Stay strong
We are together We are together indeed, and here we go one more time, add this one to the list of people who decides to fight against the interests of "America" and ends up dead.
In fairness people who decide to fight against the interests of Santa also eventually all end up dead.
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On March 08 2013 04:47 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
They literally said you can celebrate in private over Chavez's death, or is it just people trying to dodge the national guard?
You can't make any celebration in a public manner. Since the country is "mourning" the passing of it's president, then we are not allowed to have any celebrations nor parties in public places. Also, You can't get booze  .
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On March 08 2013 03:21 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 01:24 Asvhald wrote:On March 08 2013 00:41 funkie wrote:On March 08 2013 00:04 arChieSC2 wrote:On March 08 2013 00:00 Asvhald wrote:
RIP Chavez, always in our hearts.
His government may have had a ton of flaws, but I'd have exchanged him in an eyeblink for the bullshit oligarchy puppets we are forced to suffer through here in Spain.
In. An. Eyeblink.
This world desperately needs more people who fight the same fight Chavez did. The dream lives on :D. That's right Wanna trade? I bet you'd love Chavez's doings (or for that matter now, Maduro's) in Spain. That'd be fun to watch. Si no lo viviste aqui, entonces no creo que tengas mucha potestad de decir u opinar sobre como goberno, tampoco tienes que dejarte llevar por todo lo que dicen los websites (pro y en contra). En fin.. Bro, here we have a whopping 26.2% unemployment rate (and double that for people under 25 years) which keeps rising, our government bails banks out with public money while people kill themselves every second day over losing their homes to foreclosure due to inflated-to-hell mortgage appraisals by banks during the housing bubble. That, while they erode, decree by decree, in the blink of an eye, our rights, social security and public safety nets that took decades and so much blood to achieve. The last labour market reform made it so people can get fired without a dime just for being sick for about 20 days in a year, among many other "delicacies". And all that, while the oligarchy across the continent (their true masters) increases their benefits by double digits percentage. So yes, I bet I'd love something like Chavez here in Spain. Very much so. I'd vote for him in a goddamn heartbeat.I know some people from Venezuela who complain about Chavez, as is their right of course but, coincidentally they are all of snow-white origin and over here instead of over there. Bet you all were better when 70% of the country was below the poverty threshold? Man, what is your point? That life in Venezuela is better than in Spain? That is ridiculous. And lol even if it were true have you weighted how much of Venezuela's prosperity is due to being oil rich??? What Chavez has to do with that?
I explained my point previously man. Life in Spain better than in Venezuela? For most people, yes, as of now, but not thanks to this or the last government. We are in a downward spiral, what with basic rights being stripped off people in the name of budget stability while public money is used to bail out banks and corruption runs rampant.
I will repeat: my point was to compare how Chavez decimated poverty levels in his country and has like 4 times less unemployment than we do, this is, his country might not be the richest one or be in the best of states but, compared to what it was before him... well, leaps and bounds better now, at least for the majority of people (aka the poor). It doesn't matter to me where does the country wealth come from, as long as it is employed in the benefit of the people, not foreign countries or corporations. That is what Chavez has been doing, and what isn't being done here in Spain. Hope you understand my point now.
Also, I was wondering if many of these Venezuelan folks living out of their country and bitching nonstop about Chavez were not people who lived a bit too well (or profiteered a bit too much) while 70% of the country lived in rags. Would make perfect sense to me.
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EPT
