Hugo Chavez has died - Page 10

On March 07 2013 01:56 Kukaracha wrote:

What, a potential oil supplier with the biggest reserves in the world as of 2013, a rock in the way of the FTAA, one of the only allies Iran has and a troublemaker in a continent considered to be the US' backyard?

Venezuela is a pretty big problem, you know.

On March 07 2013 02:51 DannyJ wrote:
The US gets more oil from South America than the Middle East by a good margin.

On March 07 2013 01:03 fleeze wrote:


What you write is 'slightly' contradicting in itself. especially: 'Civil rights and equality will rise sooner or later.'
you seem to have no clue at all about venezuela if you think another president would have done more for civil rights and especially equality. Chavez was no saint, but he definately wasn't a mad dictator.

people shouldn't believe what they read about venezuela in main stream media. there is also another side of the story.

great insight post by Nevermind86 btw.

On March 06 2013 07:21 sam!zdat wrote:


I hope just the opposite!

On March 06 2013 08:27 Shiragaku wrote:

We can debate whether it is okay or not, my point is that he is unbelievably hypocritical and is obsessed with anti-Americanism and anti-NATO. We are talking about a self-proclaimed socialist and Maoist on one occasion who allows foreign privatization.

Also to give a direct answer, I think it would be horrible if the railroads were privatized by any nation.

*Sigh* This man is worse than George Galloway.

On March 06 2013 09:52 Nevermind86 wrote:
Being a Venezuelan, I'd like to explain shortly why we will always remenber him and what he meant to the country:

-His government was bad, crime is rampant, inflation, waste of resources, populism, all of it it's 100% true but the governments before were actually worse. He came to prominence as one of the heads of a coup d'etat in 1992 against a two-party system that served the same masters, the venezuelan economic powers, particularly the emerging nouveau rich bankers. Back then the country was comming out of a period similar to what the great depression was to the US because oil prices dropped to 7$, government debt was in a historic high, social spending was being dramatically cut and wages were dropped to the bottom, some 3 years before that, in february 27th 1989, FMI austerity measures were declared, that among other things increased the price of gasoline by 800%, the price of public buses went up accordingly and people that couldn't go to work rioted, the then pro-american government sent the army to the streets and around 3.000 were killed, of course the UN or any international body back then cared and nobody responsible went to jail. It was since then that the two party system was morally bankrupt, so Chávez's coup d'etat even though it was a failure got him on tv apologizing to the venezuelan people for doing it, people loved him since then because he admitted it was a mistake, after popular demand charges were dropped after 2 years in jail.

Then in 1993 a leftish presidential candidate that represented the people that supported Chavez won an election but electoral fraud was rampant and instead a well known extreme right winger took power, his government wasn't so bad until 1995 where banks were going bankrupt and he decided to bail them out, stimulus packet style but the banks still went bankrupt and another economic crisis started. Then in december 1998 Chavez wins the presidency with an actually pro-capitalist speech, he was a totally different kind of president back then and his popularity was huge, with time though, he started to change turning more and more leftish on the way, and being friendly with demonized people like Fidel Castro, but it wasn't until 2002 where he passed anti-latifundist, anti-bank monopoly (glass stegeal act-type) laws and an increase in taxes to foreign oil companies that the unrest that marked the rest of his government started, in 2002 a new right wing party with help from the CIA did a coup d'etat the next day after some people were killed in both pro and anti government protests, Chavez was kidnapped and forced to resign, all powers were dissolved and the president of Fedecamaras took oath as president, Fedecamaras being the biggest association of enterprises of the country. Too many bad things happened in those days, the army got videotapped practicing statements about doing the coup because people died on the streets before the first bullet was fired, the tv showed false videos blaming it on pro-Chavez crowds, the FMI approuved new loans to "rebuild the government from the Chavez regime" the same day the coup happened... it was all a joke. 2 days after the coup people were doing huge protests around the presidential palace demanding Chavez to be brought back, and he was, since then he radicalized his government. Then that same year, in chrismast, the same people that did the coup d'etat sabotaged the oil industry resulting in losses to the nation in the order of at least 20$ billions, scarcity in all products especially food pissed people off quite a lot, but this second attempt was even worse than the first because after 15 days the government re-started the oil production but politically the right wing took the blame of all the country's problems, to this day, basically.

After 2006 he became really power hungry since he won a second term destroying the opposition in the votings, nobody likes them to this day like I said before. In 2010 in the middle of a new economic crisis, this time created by the Chavez government and not due to the same old right wing people his popularity started to drop quite a lot, for the first time he got defeated in an election quite badly (Congress election) and things weren't looking good for his 'socialism', since then capitalism went back with a lot of strenght with a socialist speech of course, a lot of oil fields were privatized and oil companies from all over the world went back to the country to increase oil production, notably from the satanized US and Europe and the new allies Russia and China that were promoted as different types of capitalists because of their obvious backgrounds. That wasn't enough, so gold, iron, all sorts of minerals, etc, were given in a golden plate to other transnationals, even with this the economic recovery wasn't good enough, so in 2012 to win a third term Chavez started a huge policy of social spending, the thing is the government doesn't really have money to keep with this, so the only way to sustain this for a while was drowning in debt, the external debt increased quite a lot, and less than a month ago the currency had to be devaluated 46.5% to cheap the price of labour and debt in the local currency, so the government could keep the social spending with oil-dollars.

As you can see american friends, american intervention in coup d'etats usually goes wrong, if it wasn't for your CIA Chavez probably would have lost in the 2006 election because in 2002 his government wasn't doing good, but somehow warmongers in Venezuela and USA though that killing our people and putting a dictator in place was a great idea and that failed miserably, as if that wasn't enough they tried a second time that year sabotaging the oil industry, paralizing the country because there wasn't any gasoline to go around or gas to cook food, they though it was brilliant because people would blame that somehow on Chavez... obviously it was a huge mistake.

In case you wonder I did vote for Chavez all these years, i'm his supporter but his government was far from good, in comparison to the ones before, though, it was the best we had since 1956, back then we had a right wing dictator that wanted to do elections some day but as you guessed it, he was coup d'etaed with support of the CIA, so they could put a puppet in place. The venezuelan people always remenber that government as being the best of our history, and Chavez without a doubt the second best.

On March 07 2013 02:46 Slaughter wrote:


The US is fine with its oil supply. Sure it probably would like to have access to it but they aren't going to put that much effort into it when they are dealing with the Mid East as #1.

On March 07 2013 04:17 Banff wrote:
I'm with this guy.

The US gets more oil from Canada than Venezuela or the ME. They would get even more oil from Canada if Keystone XL gets approved. Oil supply is not high on US' concern. North Dakota is forecasting to surpass Alaska for oil production. There is even talk that US can become an exporter if it realizes all its shale resources.

Venezuela's oil is heavy oil so the refineries that take on Venezuelan oil could take Canadian oil. I have family in Venezuela so I am impartial to this. In Canada a lot of Venezuelans have came here to work due to their expertise of heavy oil. I think that speaks to quality of life in Venezuela - although I have family who decided to stay in Venezuela (home is home?). In terms of stability I think the people of Venezuela will have power to choose their next leader. Look at previous dictator countries that took matter into their own hands. Syria, Libya, Egypt. I'm not a political science or history major so what do I know....

On March 07 2013 07:23 Swimcito wrote:
funny how people sometimes blinded by hatred for the U.S. is able to see Nevermind's post, yet somehow arent able to see mine, which i detailed why Chavez Govt. sucks.

On March 07 2013 07:23 Swimcito wrote:
funny how people sometimes blinded by hatred for the U.S. is able to see Nevermind's post, yet somehow arent able to see mine, which i detailed why Chavez Govt. sucks.

Nevermind is pro Chavez

I am Anti Chavez

There is 2 sides of the coin and Venezuela is extremely divided because of it.

On March 07 2013 07:43 Kukaracha wrote:

Because you post is terribad. :p

Your arguments are based on a deterioration of the level of life, when Chavez has fought poverty like mint toothpaste fights cats. Just look at the numbers.
My guess is that you're middle class and that you don't really give a damn about those who couldn't affort medical care and who can now, and that you're more concerned with middle-class stuff. It's okay, but the majority of the Venezuelan population is, well, poor.

You then argue that the new prez doesn't have the required education, but he has the same backround as Lula, and there are many other "unusual" presidential candidates - like I said, Reagan was an actor, and yet he is the US' favourite president.

I mean, there are many, many, many arguments against Chavez, the country has basically no future and simply stands on its oil revenue, which is bound to decrease shortly, the economy is non-existent, etc. In my eyes you're invocating the wrong reasons, and while Nevermined tried to be at least somewhat objective, you're simply speaking with your heart.

On March 07 2013 07:43 Kukaracha wrote:

Because you post is terribad. :p

Your arguments are based on a deterioration of the level of life, when Chavez has fought poverty like mint toothpaste fights cats. Just look at the numbers.
My guess is that you're middle class and that you don't really give a damn about those who couldn't affort medical care and who can now, and that you're more concerned with middle-class stuff. It's okay, but the majority of the Venezuelan population is, well, poor.

You then argue that the new prez doesn't have the required education, but he has the same backround as Lula, and there are many other "unusual" presidential candidates - like I said, Reagan was an actor, and yet he is the US' favourite president.

I mean, there are many, many, many arguments against Chavez, the country has basically no future and simply stands on its oil revenue, which is bound to decrease shortly, the economy is non-existent, etc. In my eyes you're invocating the wrong reasons, and while Nevermined tried to be at least somewhat objective, you're simply speaking with your heart.

On March 07 2013 16:39 aka_star wrote:
that's bullcrap, now who is gonna oppose bush?