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I happened upon this today:
http://cafe.naver.com/clanmook/7533
According to the poster: the former manager GundamWeRRa (Jung Chan Kyu) is currently the manager of the League of Legends clan "Mook" and goes by the id "mookimp." Most of the founding members of the clan are former WeRRa members. Those who have attended the face-to-face meetings should be able to verify that Jung Chan Kyu is "mookimp." The name of Jung Chan Kyu was verified through the Mook clan's financial records.
The poster speculates that Jung Chan Kyu is under what is called the "reset syndrome" in Korea, a condition in which after committing a crime or a misdeed, the afflicted believes that the past can simply be erased by starting over from the beginning.
One of the comments to the post was by a user with a screen name of "Haha" and username of "jbyhaha." Haha.WeRRa was another former WeRRa manager who used the twitter id of "jbyhaha."
A site that compiled the sex scandal related materials, in Korean:
http://blog.naver.com/forever_4242?Redirect=Log&logNo=50098424367
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and....?
Isn't this an issue for Korean police and those directly affected only?
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Hide your sons and little bros. That guy's going to molest little boys playing lol.
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Yeh now he has a pool of 32 million little boys to prey on.
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I'm not advocating any action, just thought that some people might find it of interest to them. I know very little about LoL, or how much influence Mook clan has within the scene. The poster didn't talk about underage boys within the clan, although he mentioned his suspicions about the similarities the Mook clan had with the WeRRa clan in terms of how they were being run.
I'm not aware of any police action that has taken place regarding GundamWeRRa. As I understand it, Korea doesn't have statutory rape laws like the U.S. (which varies according to the state) and it is only criminal to have sexual contact with someone under 13, regardless of consent.
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you never said what he actually did
EDIT: oh i remember this guy
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On February 16 2013 12:42 sob3k wrote:
you never said what he actually did
EDIT: oh i remember this guy
He sexually assaulted 15 year old LoveRipWeRRa. That aside, this guy does not need to be let back into E-Sports, he has proven that he really can't be trusted.
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this makes me wonder what happened after WeRRa disbanded.
Were the authorities ever even aware of this guy?
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Really, this guy again?!? Just what esports doesn't need.
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On February 16 2013 12:53 triforks wrote:
this makes me wonder what happened after WeRRa disbanded.
Were the authorities ever even aware of this guy?
That's what I'd like to know as well. The most troubling was the long chat transcript where another alleged SC player implied that he had in fact been raped, and that judging by GundamWeRRa's behavior, he thought that Gundam had done the same more than once or twice before. There was another shorter chat transcript where someone called the meeting a "victims' meeting" and LoveRip responded that he hadn't actually been raped, which could imply that he knew that the others had been.
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i'm not really sure about korean culture.
could this kind of thing maybe been kept silent?
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Is that really a syndrome or just colorful wording?
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A little risky. I hope this turns out well.
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On February 16 2013 12:50 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 12:42 sob3k wrote:
you never said what he actually did
EDIT: oh i remember this guy He sexually assaulted 15 year old LoveRipWeRRa. That aside, this guy does not need to be let back into E-Sports, he has proven that he really can't be trusted.
once guilty, forever guilty ey??
guess there's no such thing as reforming
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On February 16 2013 13:44 FoxerGames wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 12:50 docvoc wrote:On February 16 2013 12:42 sob3k wrote:
you never said what he actually did
EDIT: oh i remember this guy He sexually assaulted 15 year old LoveRipWeRRa. That aside, this guy does not need to be let back into E-Sports, he has proven that he really can't be trusted. once guilty, forever guilty ey?? guess there's no such thing as reforming
Child molestation is an unforgivable crime regardless of country, ethnicity, religion, what social structure you live in.
Maybe he can reform, but he must do his reforming AWAY from young children and teenagers because this dude is a straight up child molester.
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Sickening.
Also LoveRip said he would never return to progaming, but he got a second chance on MVP. He's finale.
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On February 16 2013 13:11 triforks wrote:
i'm not really sure about korean culture.
could this kind of thing maybe been kept silent?
In the U.S., things like police records, court documents, judicial opinions, and sex offender's registries tend to be accessible to the public especially since crimes are deemed to be misdeeds against the entire society. I know the Korean language, but I wish someone more familiar with Korean law could tell us more about this situation. The WeRRa clan disbanded when LoveRip posted his statement on playxp.com, a prominent gaming website in Korea. There must have been some attempt by the authorities to investigate... I hope.
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On February 16 2013 13:51 catplanetcatplanet wrote:
Sickening.
Also LoveRip said he would never return to progaming, but he got a second chance on MVP. He's finale.
O.O holy shit I never knew that LoveRip was Finale 
I feel horrible as fuck for rooting against him the past few months.
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On February 16 2013 13:38 Torte de Lini wrote:
Is that really a syndrome or just colorful wording?
I've read an official police statement before that used that term (리셋증후군). I don't know about its use within the medical community. There is a wikipedia article for it in Korean:
http://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/리셋_증후군
The article says the term originated in Japan in the year 1990, and began to be used in Korea in 1990.
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GundamWeRRa also runs 'WeRRa' on LoL kr server, I know one of the members and showed them the post by Finale, safe to say they had no idea what Gundam had done. I'll try to have one of the MVPLol sc2 players post on inven his ID and link Finale's post.
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On February 16 2013 13:47 GhoSt[shield] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 13:44 FoxerGames wrote:On February 16 2013 12:50 docvoc wrote:On February 16 2013 12:42 sob3k wrote:
you never said what he actually did
EDIT: oh i remember this guy He sexually assaulted 15 year old LoveRipWeRRa. That aside, this guy does not need to be let back into E-Sports, he has proven that he really can't be trusted. once guilty, forever guilty ey?? guess there's no such thing as reforming Child molestation is an unforgivable crime regardless of country, ethnicity, religion, what social structure you live in.Maybe he can reform, but he must do his reforming AWAY from young children and teenagers because this dude is a straight up child molester.
You are just judging from a western perspective. It's really bad but whether it's unforgivable or not depends on the society.
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51460 Posts
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On February 16 2013 13:51 catplanetcatplanet wrote:
Also LoveRip said he would never return to progaming, but he got a second chance on MVP. He's finale.
Oh shit I had no idea they were the same person o_o;
OT: yeah I don't think the guy should be let back into progaming...
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On February 16 2013 13:51 catplanetcatplanet wrote:
Sickening.
Also LoveRip said he would never return to progaming, but he got a second chance on MVP. He's finale.
WTF? Finale is LoveRip? Wow I never noticed that
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On February 16 2013 14:43 Cubu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 13:47 GhoSt[shield] wrote:On February 16 2013 13:44 FoxerGames wrote:On February 16 2013 12:50 docvoc wrote:On February 16 2013 12:42 sob3k wrote:
you never said what he actually did
EDIT: oh i remember this guy He sexually assaulted 15 year old LoveRipWeRRa. That aside, this guy does not need to be let back into E-Sports, he has proven that he really can't be trusted. once guilty, forever guilty ey?? guess there's no such thing as reforming Child molestation is an unforgivable crime regardless of country, ethnicity, religion, what social structure you live in.Maybe he can reform, but he must do his reforming AWAY from young children and teenagers because this dude is a straight up child molester. You are just judging from a western perspective. It's really bad but whether it's unforgivable or not depends on the society.
Reform from past behaviour is very possible, I do not deny that Gundam can/could change his ways and not be a child molester.
I meant it is unforgivable for him to be allowed gather a group of young boys/teenagers (15-20+)again after he sexually molested LoveRip. Gundam molested LoveRip (aged 15 at the time) while they were in Werra clan.
Name a reasonable, rational society on earth that condones the molestation of their children by Older men who supervise them.
Western perspective or not, Gundam is a child molester/sexual predator.
How does no one else see eye-to-eye with me on this? Have I gone crazy?
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On February 16 2013 14:43 Cubu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 13:47 GhoSt[shield] wrote:On February 16 2013 13:44 FoxerGames wrote:On February 16 2013 12:50 docvoc wrote:On February 16 2013 12:42 sob3k wrote:
you never said what he actually did
EDIT: oh i remember this guy He sexually assaulted 15 year old LoveRipWeRRa. That aside, this guy does not need to be let back into E-Sports, he has proven that he really can't be trusted. once guilty, forever guilty ey?? guess there's no such thing as reforming Child molestation is an unforgivable crime regardless of country, ethnicity, religion, what social structure you live in.Maybe he can reform, but he must do his reforming AWAY from young children and teenagers because this dude is a straight up child molester. You are just judging from a western perspective
I wouldn't call it an exclusively western perspective.
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On February 16 2013 14:43 Cubu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 13:47 GhoSt[shield] wrote:On February 16 2013 13:44 FoxerGames wrote:On February 16 2013 12:50 docvoc wrote:On February 16 2013 12:42 sob3k wrote:
you never said what he actually did
EDIT: oh i remember this guy He sexually assaulted 15 year old LoveRipWeRRa. That aside, this guy does not need to be let back into E-Sports, he has proven that he really can't be trusted. once guilty, forever guilty ey?? guess there's no such thing as reforming Child molestation is an unforgivable crime regardless of country, ethnicity, religion, what social structure you live in.Maybe he can reform, but he must do his reforming AWAY from young children and teenagers because this dude is a straight up child molester. You are just judging from a western perspective. It's really bad but whether it's unforgivable or not depends on the society.
not that simple, the way korean proteams work do not leave much room to take a risk. it is not just simple interactive witha former moloster, its living with a moloster.
I wonder families of underage players are aware of this issue
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On February 16 2013 15:44 GhoSt[shield] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 14:43 Cubu wrote:On February 16 2013 13:47 GhoSt[shield] wrote:On February 16 2013 13:44 FoxerGames wrote:On February 16 2013 12:50 docvoc wrote:On February 16 2013 12:42 sob3k wrote:
you never said what he actually did
EDIT: oh i remember this guy He sexually assaulted 15 year old LoveRipWeRRa. That aside, this guy does not need to be let back into E-Sports, he has proven that he really can't be trusted. once guilty, forever guilty ey?? guess there's no such thing as reforming Child molestation is an unforgivable crime regardless of country, ethnicity, religion, what social structure you live in.Maybe he can reform, but he must do his reforming AWAY from young children and teenagers because this dude is a straight up child molester. You are just judging from a western perspective. It's really bad but whether it's unforgivable or not depends on the society. Reform from past behaviour is very possible, I do not deny that Gundam can/could change his ways and not be a child molester. I meant it is unforgivable for him to be allowed gather a group of young boys/teenagers (15-20+)again after he sexually molested LoveRip. Gundam molested LoveRip (aged 15 at the time) while they were in Werra clan. Name a reasonable, rational society on earth that condones the molestation of their children by Older men who supervise them. Western perspective or not, Gundam is a child molester/sexual predator. How does no one else see eye-to-eye with me on this? Have I gone crazy?
...Ancient Greece, Persia, modern-day Afghanistan... young boys were often preferred for sex in many cultures... Reasonable/rational are extremely subjective words so they are basically useless descriptors in this regard. Plenty of places still think 15 is an acceptable age to get married.
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So people are saying he needs to reform "away from e-sports" and that we "shouldn't let him back into e-sports". WeRRa disbanded a long-ass time ago now. I'm not sure what most of you would consider "long enough". But I'm sure most of you aren't experts in this sort of behaviour, and I don't think Team Liquid forum members can or should decide anything related to the situation.
I don't know anything about this idea of reset syndrome but if the point is to erase past misdeeds by starting over then that kind of implies he knows he was wrong and wants to do better the second time around.
It was a bizarre and disturbing incident, and someone needs to keep tabs on the situation. But if former members of WeRRa make up most of the clan, and former members of WeRRa are probably the most likely to know why WeRRa disbanded, then I don't know what anyone could say or do.
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what does forgiveness have to do with the idea that he perhaps shouldnt be employed around kids and teenagers?
The latter is just common sense.
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On February 17 2013 01:05 1Dhalism wrote:
what does forgiveness have to do with the idea that he perhaps shouldnt be employed around kids and teenagers?
The latter is just common sense.
He's in a position of quasi-authority again as a prominent member of a group that has financial records. But I don't think there is any sense in which we can say he is employed as that implies an employer, who was either ignorant of what he had allegedly done or didn't care.
Whether it's "right" or "wrong" for him to be involved with video games again isn't something I would leave up to people who don't know him or what has happened in the intervening years. That's all. My or your idea of "common sense" is probably just based around a stereotype.
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It's like letting a pedo work in Disney land.
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On February 17 2013 01:18 S_SienZ wrote:
It's like letting a pedo work in Disney land.
No, because members of a team depend on their coach to a degree, children in Disneyland do not depend on the staff.
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On February 17 2013 01:23 Dagobert wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2013 01:18 S_SienZ wrote:
It's like letting a pedo work in Disney land. No, because members of a team depend on their coach to a degree, children in Disneyland do not depend on the staff.
Children in Disneyland also don't decide which staff to work with, though. It's possible that newer members of the clan have no idea about the history of WeRRa, but what about the people who returned? I don't think it would be responsible at this point to just say they were groomed and can't speak for themselves.
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I assume most people in this thread believe all murderers should go on electric chair, or at the very least get a lifetime sentence in a solitary cell, then, and every rapist should get a restraining order prohibiting them from approaching any females within half a mile? The guy might be a scumbag, but 'the community' really needs to stop judging whether someone should be allowed to do this or that.
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Well, the statement finale made after he left WeRRa was really heartbreaking.. I think Gundam deserves a second chance, but someone should really keep an eye on him.
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On February 17 2013 01:28 Salazarz wrote:
I assume most people in this thread believe all murderers should go on electric chair, or at the very least get a lifetime sentence in a solitary cell, then, and every rapist should get a restraining order prohibiting them from approaching any females within half a mile? The guy might be a scumbag, but 'the community' really needs to stop judging whether someone should be allowed to do this or that.
Right.....as someone from Germany Id figure you wouldnt of had such a naive view on things. Sure teamliquid doesnt hand out punishment but to think everyone can be reformed and let back into society is the dumbest thing ive ever heard, Im sure someone like Hitler or Gengis Khan could of be reformed right? Sometimes you either crate a mad dog or you kill it. You dont let it back out into the pastures to hunt new prey.
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On February 17 2013 01:28 Salazarz wrote:
I assume most people in this thread believe all murderers should go on electric chair, or at the very least get a lifetime sentence in a solitary cell, then, and every rapist should get a restraining order prohibiting them from approaching any females within half a mile? The guy might be a scumbag, but 'the community' really needs to stop judging whether someone should be allowed to do this or that.
Straw man.
I mean really, there's a difference between that and being a coach on a Korean pro-team... Anyone who's watched some of the documentaries, read a few interviews or even watched simple fan made tours of pro-houses should know how close these people are. They are practically family. They rely heavily on their coach for everything, who becomes almost like a father figure to these kids.
It's a massive position of POWER over these kids, which many people seem to miss. Some of these guys surely dream heavily making it in the scene, and they need the team to do it. Understand where I'm going with this?
Now, I'm not saying he is going to abuse with certainty, but considering his past crimes, why risk it? Surely he can find some other line of work that doesn't involve being in charge of bunch of young teenagers?
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no one is arguing that he should not retun to esports, we are just sayign he should not be in charge of minors. more precisly, at very least he should get a very informed concent from their parents. I very doubtfull that he or the rest of the team had been clear on this issue with legal guardians of their players.
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risk>reward
simple. u risk more by letting him back in than reaping whatever benefits he can contribute.
so it's better not to
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On February 17 2013 01:28 Salazarz wrote:
I assume most people in this thread believe all murderers should go on electric chair, or at the very least get a lifetime sentence in a solitary cell, then, and every rapist should get a restraining order prohibiting them from approaching any females within half a mile? The guy might be a scumbag, but 'the community' really needs to stop judging whether someone should be allowed to do this or that.
I don't think anyone is explicitly wanting to get him lynched or anything, or at least not anymore. But to put him in an almost identical position to the one in which he was when he molested children is absurd. It's sad that he wasn't sued and judged for his actions, but I wouldn't necessarily call for his head to be chopped off. But do you realize how abysmally stupid it is to have someone with a precedent in abusing children working once more with children? It's similar to a member of the KKK that has a precedent in hate crimes, working in an office surrounded by African Americans. Or I don't know, a guy into bestiality being a Zoo keeper of sorts. Sure, he doesn't have to rot in a jail cell. Sure, he can even work in eSports again. But not as a coach. FFS. >.<
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If the organization is aware of what he has done and feels confident with him changing, then I see it as a good thing. If it's something like Penn State situation then it would be a tragedy.
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On February 17 2013 01:53 FromShouri wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2013 01:28 Salazarz wrote:
I assume most people in this thread believe all murderers should go on electric chair, or at the very least get a lifetime sentence in a solitary cell, then, and every rapist should get a restraining order prohibiting them from approaching any females within half a mile? The guy might be a scumbag, but 'the community' really needs to stop judging whether someone should be allowed to do this or that. Right.....as someone from Germany Id figure you wouldnt of had such a naive view on things. Sure teamliquid doesnt hand out punishment but to think everyone can be reformed and let back into society is the dumbest thing ive ever heard, Im sure someone like Hitler or Gengis Khan could of be reformed right? Sometimes you either crate a mad dog or you kill it. You dont let it back out into the pastures to hunt new prey.
I don't believe that everyone can be reformed and should be let back into the society; but if the laws established by the society decide that a person is, in fact, reformed then so be it. There are things like conditional parole and stuff for a reason; if the guy got out of the previous situation with basically a slap on the wrist (did he even get a jail sentence back then?) then perhaps you should consider the possibility of the story being presented as a more severe case than it really was. I'm not saying child abuse or molestation isn't a serious thing, but it's pretty unfair to label a guy as utter scum and beyond salvation or whatever.
Also, why the fuck are you comparing this guy to Hitler, like really lol.
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On February 17 2013 02:13 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2013 01:28 Salazarz wrote:
I assume most people in this thread believe all murderers should go on electric chair, or at the very least get a lifetime sentence in a solitary cell, then, and every rapist should get a restraining order prohibiting them from approaching any females within half a mile? The guy might be a scumbag, but 'the community' really needs to stop judging whether someone should be allowed to do this or that. I don't think anyone is explicitly wanting to get him lynched or anything, or at least not anymore. But to put him in an almost identical position to the one in which he was when he molested children is absurd. It's sad that he wasn't sued and judged for his actions, but I wouldn't necessarily call for his head to be chopped off. But do you realize how abysmally stupid it is to have someone with a precedent in abusing children working once more with children? It's similar to a member of the KKK that has a precedent in hate crimes, working in an office surrounded by African Americans. Or I don't know, a guy into bestiality being a Zoo keeper of sorts. Sure, he doesn't have to rot in a jail cell. Sure, he can even work in eSports again. But not as a coach. FFS. >.<
Have you even considered that maybe since the previous situation ended up with him not being sued or jailed then perhaps he just wasn't as guilty as teamliquid believes? I could post a long teary thread about how Liquid'Nazgul molested me, that wouldn't make you claim that he should go to prison right now, would it? If I'm reading this right, some of the old WeRRa clan are back with him - does it sound like he was a disgusting pedo rapist, really? If he was as bad as people on this forum paint him to be, surely the other kids who lived in the house would catch wind of that, and if they really believed him to be a disgusting rapist they probably wouldn't be so quick to get involved with the same coach once more?
It's not like he's even running a successful team or something to attract dumb hopeless kids with money or whatever; don't be so quick to judge the man based on one side's story of one incident.
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On February 16 2013 15:44 GhoSt[shield] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 14:43 Cubu wrote:On February 16 2013 13:47 GhoSt[shield] wrote:On February 16 2013 13:44 FoxerGames wrote:On February 16 2013 12:50 docvoc wrote:On February 16 2013 12:42 sob3k wrote:
you never said what he actually did
EDIT: oh i remember this guy He sexually assaulted 15 year old LoveRipWeRRa. That aside, this guy does not need to be let back into E-Sports, he has proven that he really can't be trusted. once guilty, forever guilty ey?? guess there's no such thing as reforming Child molestation is an unforgivable crime regardless of country, ethnicity, religion, what social structure you live in.Maybe he can reform, but he must do his reforming AWAY from young children and teenagers because this dude is a straight up child molester. You are just judging from a western perspective. It's really bad but whether it's unforgivable or not depends on the society. Reform from past behaviour is very possible, I do not deny that Gundam can/could change his ways and not be a child molester. I meant it is unforgivable for him to be allowed gather a group of young boys/teenagers (15-20+)again after he sexually molested LoveRip. Gundam molested LoveRip (aged 15 at the time) while they were in Werra clan. Name a reasonable, rational society on earth that condones the molestation of their children by Older men who supervise them. Western perspective or not, Gundam is a child molester/sexual predator. How does no one else see eye-to-eye with me on this? Have I gone crazy?
The sambia of New Guinea read up on that , they didnt have a problem with what we call molestation , it was part of there culture .
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Hooo boy, the WERRA child fucking incident was the first sc2 drama, that I remember happening and actively knowing about !
I guess some things stick to you like superglue and will never go off.
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On February 17 2013 02:17 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2013 01:53 FromShouri wrote:On February 17 2013 01:28 Salazarz wrote:
I assume most people in this thread believe all murderers should go on electric chair, or at the very least get a lifetime sentence in a solitary cell, then, and every rapist should get a restraining order prohibiting them from approaching any females within half a mile? The guy might be a scumbag, but 'the community' really needs to stop judging whether someone should be allowed to do this or that. Right.....as someone from Germany Id figure you wouldnt of had such a naive view on things. Sure teamliquid doesnt hand out punishment but to think everyone can be reformed and let back into society is the dumbest thing ive ever heard, Im sure someone like Hitler or Gengis Khan could of be reformed right? Sometimes you either crate a mad dog or you kill it. You dont let it back out into the pastures to hunt new prey. I don't believe that everyone can be reformed and should be let back into the society; but if the laws established by the society decide that a person is, in fact, reformed then so be it. There are things like conditional parole and stuff for a reason; if the guy got out of the previous situation with basically a slap on the wrist (did he even get a jail sentence back then?) then perhaps you should consider the possibility of the story being presented as a more severe case than it really was. I'm not saying child abuse or molestation isn't a serious thing, but it's pretty unfair to label a guy as utter scum and beyond salvation or whatever. Also, why the fuck are you comparing this guy to Hitler, like really lol.
Uhh, Ghengis Khan was the leader of his society. , he did not need to reform cause he was a baws. He united the mongolian tribes and then went and conquered most of the known world .Hitler also the same thing (minus baws ) he was scum , though now that I think about it Ghengis was probably just as bad lol.
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On February 17 2013 02:17 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2013 01:53 FromShouri wrote:On February 17 2013 01:28 Salazarz wrote:
I assume most people in this thread believe all murderers should go on electric chair, or at the very least get a lifetime sentence in a solitary cell, then, and every rapist should get a restraining order prohibiting them from approaching any females within half a mile? The guy might be a scumbag, but 'the community' really needs to stop judging whether someone should be allowed to do this or that. Right.....as someone from Germany Id figure you wouldnt of had such a naive view on things. Sure teamliquid doesnt hand out punishment but to think everyone can be reformed and let back into society is the dumbest thing ive ever heard, Im sure someone like Hitler or Gengis Khan could of be reformed right? Sometimes you either crate a mad dog or you kill it. You dont let it back out into the pastures to hunt new prey. I don't believe that everyone can be reformed and should be let back into the society; but if the laws established by the society decide that a person is, in fact, reformed then so be it. There are things like conditional parole and stuff for a reason; if the guy got out of the previous situation with basically a slap on the wrist (did he even get a jail sentence back then?) then perhaps you should consider the possibility of the story being presented as a more severe case than it really was. I'm not saying child abuse or molestation isn't a serious thing, but it's pretty unfair to label a guy as utter scum and beyond salvation or whatever. Also, why the fuck are you comparing this guy to Hitler, like really lol.
I'm not comparing him to Hitler because I think he's a terrible person, I'm using Hitler as an example that not everyone can be reformed AND the fact that both were in positions of power that they abused for their own ends. Lets say Hitler was "reformed" by the laws standard, should we allow him near Jewish Synagoques(spelling?) what about Jewish historical sites? Should we allow him to be Chancellor of Germany again after 10 years? 15? 20? In some cases like using a position of authority to abuse people, there is no second chance, once and you're done.
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Never read about any of this incident before but what I just checked was, gundam touched the other guys pants while the guy was sleeping and then woke up? People commenting here are like someone got murdered? What am I missing here, this doesnt sound too severe?
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On February 16 2013 15:44 GhoSt[shield] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 14:43 Cubu wrote:On February 16 2013 13:47 GhoSt[shield] wrote:On February 16 2013 13:44 FoxerGames wrote:On February 16 2013 12:50 docvoc wrote:On February 16 2013 12:42 sob3k wrote:
you never said what he actually did
EDIT: oh i remember this guy He sexually assaulted 15 year old LoveRipWeRRa. That aside, this guy does not need to be let back into E-Sports, he has proven that he really can't be trusted. once guilty, forever guilty ey?? guess there's no such thing as reforming Child molestation is an unforgivable crime regardless of country, ethnicity, religion, what social structure you live in.Maybe he can reform, but he must do his reforming AWAY from young children and teenagers because this dude is a straight up child molester. You are just judging from a western perspective. It's really bad but whether it's unforgivable or not depends on the society. Reform from past behaviour is very possible, I do not deny that Gundam can/could change his ways and not be a child molester. I meant it is unforgivable for him to be allowed gather a group of young boys/teenagers (15-20+)again after he sexually molested LoveRip. Gundam molested LoveRip (aged 15 at the time) while they were in Werra clan. Name a reasonable, rational society on earth that condones the molestation of their children by Older men who supervise them. Western perspective or not, Gundam is a child molester/sexual predator. How does no one else see eye-to-eye with me on this? Have I gone crazy?
Seeing as age of consent in japan is 14 in china 13 and korea also 13 i think asians in general have a bit of a different view on when a molested child is actually a molested child, and not just sexual harassment
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You guys are getting way off topic. I think Lastshadow is doing the most in this thread, at least right now. I really hope that post goes through. Rather than argue whether or not it is a global idea that young boys represent good mating material (which in Korea and other modern nations, they do not, thanks to whoever it was for naming off ancient civilizations and backwards nations that we can all agree do things no other people believe are right). This thread is also not to argue about whether or not the guy can be reformed, since even if all people can be reformed, there is no way that less than half a decade afterwards, the guy is pulling the same fucking stunt. My question is how this guy gets back into these positions of authority? Seriously, how do people not know his story if they are good enough at gaming to join a high level clan?
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On February 17 2013 02:58 mustache wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 15:44 GhoSt[shield] wrote:On February 16 2013 14:43 Cubu wrote:On February 16 2013 13:47 GhoSt[shield] wrote:On February 16 2013 13:44 FoxerGames wrote:On February 16 2013 12:50 docvoc wrote:On February 16 2013 12:42 sob3k wrote:
you never said what he actually did
EDIT: oh i remember this guy He sexually assaulted 15 year old LoveRipWeRRa. That aside, this guy does not need to be let back into E-Sports, he has proven that he really can't be trusted. once guilty, forever guilty ey?? guess there's no such thing as reforming Child molestation is an unforgivable crime regardless of country, ethnicity, religion, what social structure you live in.Maybe he can reform, but he must do his reforming AWAY from young children and teenagers because this dude is a straight up child molester. You are just judging from a western perspective. It's really bad but whether it's unforgivable or not depends on the society. Reform from past behaviour is very possible, I do not deny that Gundam can/could change his ways and not be a child molester. I meant it is unforgivable for him to be allowed gather a group of young boys/teenagers (15-20+)again after he sexually molested LoveRip. Gundam molested LoveRip (aged 15 at the time) while they were in Werra clan. Name a reasonable, rational society on earth that condones the molestation of their children by Older men who supervise them. Western perspective or not, Gundam is a child molester/sexual predator. How does no one else see eye-to-eye with me on this? Have I gone crazy? Seeing as age of consent in japan is 14 in china 13 and korea also 13 i think asians in general have a bit of a different view on when a molested child is actually a molested child, and not just sexual harassment
This is a myth. (Well, not really but it kinda is.)
While it's true that the NATIONAL age of consent in Japan is 14, the fact of the matter is, it is truly decided by prefectures, and most of them have it 16-18. Just like in the US, you have different ages of consent depending on state.
Also, 13 is also not quite true in Korea either. Google is your friend.
I can't speak for China but comparing them with Korea and Japan, isn't exactly fair.
Edit: spacing
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On February 17 2013 02:44 FromShouri wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2013 02:17 Salazarz wrote:On February 17 2013 01:53 FromShouri wrote:On February 17 2013 01:28 Salazarz wrote:
I assume most people in this thread believe all murderers should go on electric chair, or at the very least get a lifetime sentence in a solitary cell, then, and every rapist should get a restraining order prohibiting them from approaching any females within half a mile? The guy might be a scumbag, but 'the community' really needs to stop judging whether someone should be allowed to do this or that. Right.....as someone from Germany Id figure you wouldnt of had such a naive view on things. Sure teamliquid doesnt hand out punishment but to think everyone can be reformed and let back into society is the dumbest thing ive ever heard, Im sure someone like Hitler or Gengis Khan could of be reformed right? Sometimes you either crate a mad dog or you kill it. You dont let it back out into the pastures to hunt new prey. I don't believe that everyone can be reformed and should be let back into the society; but if the laws established by the society decide that a person is, in fact, reformed then so be it. There are things like conditional parole and stuff for a reason; if the guy got out of the previous situation with basically a slap on the wrist (did he even get a jail sentence back then?) then perhaps you should consider the possibility of the story being presented as a more severe case than it really was. I'm not saying child abuse or molestation isn't a serious thing, but it's pretty unfair to label a guy as utter scum and beyond salvation or whatever. Also, why the fuck are you comparing this guy to Hitler, like really lol. I'm not comparing him to Hitler because I think he's a terrible person, I'm using Hitler as an example that not everyone can be reformed AND the fact that both were in positions of power that they abused for their own ends. Lets say Hitler was "reformed" by the laws standard, should we allow him near Jewish Synagoques(spelling?) what about Jewish historical sites? Should we allow him to be Chancellor of Germany again after 10 years? 15? 20? In some cases like using a position of authority to abuse people, there is no second chance, once and you're done.
What you're doing is condemning a person based on an extremely limited recollection of a story by a kid in a very stressful environment. There is hardly any proof of the WeRRa manager being a paedophile or a molester apart from words of a distressed child; for all we know, the kid could have made the entire story up because he had a fight with the manager. It's amazing how the previous WeRRa members are fine with him being a manager and are happy to work with him again, but random forum dwellers from across the globe feel they know better.
Is it possible that the guy is indeed a scumbag and a paedophile? Sure is. Is there enough evidence to condemn him as such and start yet another witch hunt? Not by any stretch of imagination. The whole, 'risk vs reward' thing only looks like that for you, but you have to consider the manager's rights, too...
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On February 17 2013 02:57 FinBenton wrote:
Never read about any of this incident before but what I just checked was, gundam touched the other guys pants while the guy was sleeping and then woke up? People commenting here are like someone got murdered? What am I missing here, this doesnt sound too severe?
LoveRip (MVPFinale) isn't the only one he did it to. Also that is illegal, like send you to jail for child molestation and sexual assault illegal. No one died, but LoveRip wasn't the only one he did it to apparently, and he is now back into the same situation he was when it happened to LoveRip.
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On February 17 2013 01:28 Salazarz wrote:
I assume most people in this thread believe all murderers should go on electric chair, or at the very least get a lifetime sentence in a solitary cell, then, and every rapist should get a restraining order prohibiting them from approaching any females within half a mile? The guy might be a scumbag, but 'the community' really needs to stop judging whether someone should be allowed to do this or that.
Terrible comparison. Child molestation is NOT just a one-off incident, like second-degree murder or even a case of first-degree murder. Child molesters, on average, molest DOZENS of victims.
Dozens.
Dozens of lives ruined, decades of innocence taken away, centuries of resulting psychological agony, multiple suicides, pain and death everywhere.
This is not a matter of forgiveness. It is a matter of practicality. One does not starve a pack of wolves and then turn them loose on your own herd. Similarly, one does not put a child molester in a position of power that involves extreme intimacy with many children. Pedophilia cannot be cured. It would be akin to curing homosexuality. He could choose to not act on his urges, of course, but if he really wanted to do that he would not be in the most optimal situation for child abuse. He would be avoiding temptation, not throwing himself into it.
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Wow, how can he really get back to the position he used to be back then. I really hope that he wil be fired/players leaving the team... and poor finale, never realized LoveRip was him. Always thought him as of awesome and hard working player and this really wants to make me start rooting for him
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On February 17 2013 03:11 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2013 02:44 FromShouri wrote:On February 17 2013 02:17 Salazarz wrote:On February 17 2013 01:53 FromShouri wrote:On February 17 2013 01:28 Salazarz wrote:
I assume most people in this thread believe all murderers should go on electric chair, or at the very least get a lifetime sentence in a solitary cell, then, and every rapist should get a restraining order prohibiting them from approaching any females within half a mile? The guy might be a scumbag, but 'the community' really needs to stop judging whether someone should be allowed to do this or that. Right.....as someone from Germany Id figure you wouldnt of had such a naive view on things. Sure teamliquid doesnt hand out punishment but to think everyone can be reformed and let back into society is the dumbest thing ive ever heard, Im sure someone like Hitler or Gengis Khan could of be reformed right? Sometimes you either crate a mad dog or you kill it. You dont let it back out into the pastures to hunt new prey. I don't believe that everyone can be reformed and should be let back into the society; but if the laws established by the society decide that a person is, in fact, reformed then so be it. There are things like conditional parole and stuff for a reason; if the guy got out of the previous situation with basically a slap on the wrist (did he even get a jail sentence back then?) then perhaps you should consider the possibility of the story being presented as a more severe case than it really was. I'm not saying child abuse or molestation isn't a serious thing, but it's pretty unfair to label a guy as utter scum and beyond salvation or whatever. Also, why the fuck are you comparing this guy to Hitler, like really lol. I'm not comparing him to Hitler because I think he's a terrible person, I'm using Hitler as an example that not everyone can be reformed AND the fact that both were in positions of power that they abused for their own ends. Lets say Hitler was "reformed" by the laws standard, should we allow him near Jewish Synagoques(spelling?) what about Jewish historical sites? Should we allow him to be Chancellor of Germany again after 10 years? 15? 20? In some cases like using a position of authority to abuse people, there is no second chance, once and you're done. What you're doing is condemning a person based on an extremely limited recollection of a story by a kid in a very stressful environment. There is hardly any proof of the WeRRa manager being a paedophile or a molester apart from words of a distressed child; for all we know, the kid could have made the entire story up because he had a fight with the manager. It's amazing how the previous WeRRa members are fine with him being a manager and are happy to work with him again, but random forum dwellers from across the globe feel they know better. Is it possible that the guy is indeed a scumbag and a paedophile? Sure is. Is there enough evidence to condemn him as such and start yet another witch hunt? Not by any stretch of imagination. The whole, 'risk vs reward' thing only looks like that for you, but you have to consider the manager's rights, too...
Sure, he could have made it up, but...
1) LoveRip let everyone know his identity
2) Gundam never denied the accusations. He basically disappeared when this story came up, leaving Cella to clean up his mess and eventually disband WeRRa
The second point is especially pretty condemning. I don't know why on earth someone would just close the clan website and disappear instead of defend himself?
Also, I wish people would stop throwing words like "rape" and "sexual assault" around as what Gundam did was obviously quite wrong, but not to the extreme degree those words suggest.
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On February 17 2013 00:43 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 15:44 GhoSt[shield] wrote:On February 16 2013 14:43 Cubu wrote:On February 16 2013 13:47 GhoSt[shield] wrote:On February 16 2013 13:44 FoxerGames wrote:On February 16 2013 12:50 docvoc wrote:On February 16 2013 12:42 sob3k wrote:
you never said what he actually did
EDIT: oh i remember this guy He sexually assaulted 15 year old LoveRipWeRRa. That aside, this guy does not need to be let back into E-Sports, he has proven that he really can't be trusted. once guilty, forever guilty ey?? guess there's no such thing as reforming Child molestation is an unforgivable crime regardless of country, ethnicity, religion, what social structure you live in.Maybe he can reform, but he must do his reforming AWAY from young children and teenagers because this dude is a straight up child molester. You are just judging from a western perspective. It's really bad but whether it's unforgivable or not depends on the society. Reform from past behaviour is very possible, I do not deny that Gundam can/could change his ways and not be a child molester. I meant it is unforgivable for him to be allowed gather a group of young boys/teenagers (15-20+)again after he sexually molested LoveRip. Gundam molested LoveRip (aged 15 at the time) while they were in Werra clan. Name a reasonable, rational society on earth that condones the molestation of their children by Older men who supervise them. Western perspective or not, Gundam is a child molester/sexual predator. How does no one else see eye-to-eye with me on this? Have I gone crazy? "Name a reasonable, rational society on earth that condones the molestation of their children by Older men who supervise them. " ...Ancient Greece, Persia, modern-day Afghanistan... young boys were often preferred for sex in many cultures... Reasonable/rational are extremely subjective words so they are basically useless descriptors in this regard. Plenty of places still think 15 is an acceptable age to get married.
Bah I didn`t put in the word "modern". Makes the context completely different
Yes, Ancient Greece with its societal caste system in city states ranging from caste citizenship (Athens) to militaristic dictatorship (Sparta). Slavery, inequality of women, Ancient Greece is not at all like any rational, modern Society.
Persia, not enough knowledge on country to comment.
Modern day Afghanistan, archaic, tribalistic paternalism in the North and a corrupt government puppet installed by US in the rest. You've gotta be joking that Afganistan is one of your examples for a rational, reasonable modern society.
ALL 3 countries you mention btw are not modern beyond the political/social joke that is Afghanistan. That place is considered anachronistic even to Saudis, the most conservative muslim country in the region.
BTW, I dont think you've read the story or know of GundamWerra, what happened to LoveRip at Werra or any of what happened at all.
You talk of marriage and such. This was LoveRip and others moving into the Werra house to practise SC2. Gundam is coach/manager of the team. Gundam sexually abuses 15 year old Loverip, there is NO marriage or anything like that. This was against LoveRip's consent and I am sure any parent would not consent to having their children live in the same situation that LoveRIp was put in.
Especially now that Gundam has started a new LoL team and none of his new players know about his deviant past (safe to assume thier parents would not either) as LastShadow imples.
Honestly do ppl read anything before they post anymore on TL?
On February 17 2013 02:58 mustache wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 16 2013 15:44 GhoSt[shield] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 14:43 Cubu wrote:On February 16 2013 13:47 GhoSt[shield] wrote:On February 16 2013 13:44 FoxerGames wrote:On February 16 2013 12:50 docvoc wrote:On February 16 2013 12:42 sob3k wrote:
you never said what he actually did
EDIT: oh i remember this guy He sexually assaulted 15 year old LoveRipWeRRa. That aside, this guy does not need to be let back into E-Sports, he has proven that he really can't be trusted. once guilty, forever guilty ey?? guess there's no such thing as reforming Child molestation is an unforgivable crime regardless of country, ethnicity, religion, what social structure you live in.Maybe he can reform, but he must do his reforming AWAY from young children and teenagers because this dude is a straight up child molester. You are just judging from a western perspective. It's really bad but whether it's unforgivable or not depends on the society. Reform from past behaviour is very possible, I do not deny that Gundam can/could change his ways and not be a child molester. I meant it is unforgivable for him to be allowed gather a group of young boys/teenagers (15-20+)again after he sexually molested LoveRip. Gundam molested LoveRip (aged 15 at the time) while they were in Werra clan. Name a reasonable, rational society on earth that condones the molestation of their children by Older men who supervise them. Western perspective or not, Gundam is a child molester/sexual predator. How does no one else see eye-to-eye with me on this? Have I gone crazy? Seeing as age of consent in japan is 14 in china 13 and korea also 13 i think asians in general have a bit of a different view on when a molested child is actually a molested child, and not just sexual harassment
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Nowhere in any of Loverip's posts does he say that it was consensual!!!!!!! Im going crazy at the lack of comprehension and the way everyone goes off-topic.
This thread is not about forgiveness, its not about proper punishment or what views you have. The thread is about the fact that an admitted child molester who abuses children without their consent (even if over consent age) being in the exact same situation (running a team of gamers) that allowed him to child molest in the first place. Moreover, very few of his new players actually know Gundam's past and what he did to LoveRip. At very least their families who give consent for them to live in these team-houses would want to know the past behaviour of the supervisor for their children.
On February 17 2013 03:11 NonFactor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2013 02:58 mustache wrote:On February 16 2013 15:44 GhoSt[shield] wrote:On February 16 2013 14:43 Cubu wrote:On February 16 2013 13:47 GhoSt[shield] wrote:On February 16 2013 13:44 FoxerGames wrote:On February 16 2013 12:50 docvoc wrote:On February 16 2013 12:42 sob3k wrote:
you never said what he actually did
EDIT: oh i remember this guy He sexually assaulted 15 year old LoveRipWeRRa. That aside, this guy does not need to be let back into E-Sports, he has proven that he really can't be trusted. once guilty, forever guilty ey?? guess there's no such thing as reforming Child molestation is an unforgivable crime regardless of country, ethnicity, religion, what social structure you live in.Maybe he can reform, but he must do his reforming AWAY from young children and teenagers because this dude is a straight up child molester. You are just judging from a western perspective. It's really bad but whether it's unforgivable or not depends on the society. Reform from past behaviour is very possible, I do not deny that Gundam can/could change his ways and not be a child molester. I meant it is unforgivable for him to be allowed gather a group of young boys/teenagers (15-20+)again after he sexually molested LoveRip. Gundam molested LoveRip (aged 15 at the time) while they were in Werra clan. Name a reasonable, rational society on earth that condones the molestation of their children by Older men who supervise them. Western perspective or not, Gundam is a child molester/sexual predator. How does no one else see eye-to-eye with me on this? Have I gone crazy? Seeing as age of consent in japan is 14 in china 13 and korea also 13 i think asians in general have a bit of a different view on when a molested child is actually a molested child, and not just sexual harassment This is a myth. (Well, not really but it kinda is.) While it's true that the NATIONAL age of consent in Japan is 14, the fact of the matter is, it is truly decided by prefectures, and most of them have it 16-18. Just like in the US, you have different ages of consent depending on state. Also, 13 is also not quite true in Korea either. Google is your friend. I can't speak for China but comparing them with Korea and Japan, isn't exactly fair. Edit: spacing
Thanks for clearing up this info.
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Jesus Christ, who cares this is not a debate about pedophilia & rape in other countries, this is about someone who has been abusing his players & should not be in a position to do so again. Get your priorities straight.
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On February 17 2013 17:12 Jinsho wrote:
Jesus Christ, who cares this is not a debate about pedophilia & rape in other countries, this is about someone who has been abusing his players & should not be in a position to do so again. Get your priorities straight.
Yeah, seriously! Does anyone know who their sponsors are?
If the WeRRa guys know and it's their clan, our partially informed position doesn't seem super relevant tbh..
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The player he originally assaulted is MVPfinale I believe.
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On February 17 2013 02:20 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2013 02:13 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 17 2013 01:28 Salazarz wrote:
I assume most people in this thread believe all murderers should go on electric chair, or at the very least get a lifetime sentence in a solitary cell, then, and every rapist should get a restraining order prohibiting them from approaching any females within half a mile? The guy might be a scumbag, but 'the community' really needs to stop judging whether someone should be allowed to do this or that. I don't think anyone is explicitly wanting to get him lynched or anything, or at least not anymore. But to put him in an almost identical position to the one in which he was when he molested children is absurd. It's sad that he wasn't sued and judged for his actions, but I wouldn't necessarily call for his head to be chopped off. But do you realize how abysmally stupid it is to have someone with a precedent in abusing children working once more with children? It's similar to a member of the KKK that has a precedent in hate crimes, working in an office surrounded by African Americans. Or I don't know, a guy into bestiality being a Zoo keeper of sorts. Sure, he doesn't have to rot in a jail cell. Sure, he can even work in eSports again. But not as a coach. FFS. >.< Have you even considered that maybe since the previous situation ended up with him not being sued or jailed then perhaps he just wasn't as guilty as teamliquid believes? I could post a long teary thread about how Liquid'Nazgul molested me, that wouldn't make you claim that he should go to prison right now, would it? If I'm reading this right, some of the old WeRRa clan are back with him - does it sound like he was a disgusting pedo rapist, really? If he was as bad as people on this forum paint him to be, surely the other kids who lived in the house would catch wind of that, and if they really believed him to be a disgusting rapist they probably wouldn't be so quick to get involved with the same coach once more? It's not like he's even running a successful team or something to attract dumb hopeless kids with money or whatever; don't be so quick to judge the man based on one side's story of one incident.
are you serious? Do you know how much of a mental power pedophiles and other abusers usually have over their victims?
IF he indeed did molest WeRRa members, its not at all impossible ( in fact its very plausible) that the kids are so heavily manipulated and mentally controlled by him that they would still want to be close to him (or simply wouldnt dare leaving).
Also youre saying that the community doesnt know enough about this to judge somebody, well for starters, a pedophile (somebody who gets turned on by power and childmolesting) is somebody who has as much control of his sexual drifts as a homosexual /heterosexual or any other kind of sexual preferences.
if the guy is actually serious about "redeeming his sins" then the least he can do is not to put himself in a position where hes more than likely to get tempted due to his hardwired sexual urges.
Not sure if people in this thread are trolling or if they are actually serious by defending a childmolester (lolmlg, finbenton etc)
claiming that childmolesting isnt a serious crime makes me wonder what kind of world were living in...
Well done Lastshadow, I hope people will listen to you and your mate and get this guy out of the team.
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On February 17 2013 18:17 BrassMonkey27 wrote:
The player he originally assaulted is MVPfinale I believe.
Most people who know this try not to mention it too much. I personally don't feel like reminding everyone about this incident everytime he plays =/
As for this case: well I'm a little shocked he's in charge of something similar again. Maybe they are unaware of the Werra incident, which spells bad news.
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On February 17 2013 17:12 Jinsho wrote:
Jesus Christ, who cares this is not a debate about pedophilia & rape in other countries, this is about someone who has been abusing his players & should not be in a position to do so again. Get your priorities straight.
I agree, "cultural subtleties" are not the issue here though I would say that regardless this particular crime is not one that is acceptable in any form in this day and age (This is my opinion, obviously lacks caveats which I don't feel should exist for such a crime).
Regarding Mook, if they knowingly hired this individual after what happened in WeRRa, they are responsible if not equally at a very significant level for Gundam's actions. Also a translation would be nice OP.
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I can't believe that anyone would be ok with this. If a teacher molested a student they would never get a job in a school again and this is no different. He was in a position of authority and trust and he abused it. That's an automatic blacklist. It's not even about punishment. It's about making sure that nothing like that ever happens again.
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EPT
