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On January 06 2017 02:37 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 02:12 Sadist wrote:On January 06 2017 02:06 On_Slaught wrote:
Nobody had told Trump he probably shouldn't be calling Dems clowns?
As for that Chicago torture story, I agree that it should have been immediately coined a hate crime. The context makes that obvious and reveals a clear double standard.
Thankfully all the suspects are 18 so we can rest knowing they will be rotting in prison for a while. Why are people saying they are a part of BLM? I dont get why thats even being discussed:/ Because linking the attack to BLM (regardless of fairness) badly undercuts BLM and its message. All you have to do is imagine what type of coverage that we'd receive had the video been of a bunch white guys beating a black kid and forcing him to say "fuck Obama."
I understand why people would do it but i guess my question woild be is there evidence for it? I havent seen any
If there is no evidence its dishonest and a horrible thing to do.
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On January 06 2017 02:39 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 02:37 xDaunt wrote:On January 06 2017 02:12 Sadist wrote:On January 06 2017 02:06 On_Slaught wrote:
Nobody had told Trump he probably shouldn't be calling Dems clowns?
As for that Chicago torture story, I agree that it should have been immediately coined a hate crime. The context makes that obvious and reveals a clear double standard.
Thankfully all the suspects are 18 so we can rest knowing they will be rotting in prison for a while. Why are people saying they are a part of BLM? I dont get why thats even being discussed:/ Because linking the attack to BLM (regardless of fairness) badly undercuts BLM and its message. All you have to do is imagine what type of coverage that we'd receive had the video been of a bunch white guys beating a black kid and forcing him to say "fuck Obama." I understand why people would do it but i guess my question woild be is there evidence for it? I havent seen any If there is no evidence its dishonest and a horrible thing to do.
No, it's not fair, but it is precisely the type of thing that the left does all of the time when the races are reversed. Does anyone really doubt that WashPo or NYT would push a story linking the attack to Trump's recent election and the normalization of the alt right? The difference between now and a few years ago is that elements on the right are starting to use the left's own tactics against it.
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On January 06 2017 00:23 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2017 22:45 Acrofales wrote:On January 05 2017 19:50 Velr wrote:People have complained about fake News/hidden ads for ages, ever since tabloids went online and had to start generate the lions share of their revenue with ads. Your linked article is on "Yahoo News" (lol?) as it seems in the Beauty section (lol!?) and was first in "Teen Vogue" (lol!). Appareantly also in Teen Vogue you find these "stories": 47 Awkward Celebrity Yearbook Photos
Taylor Swift's Top 10 Red Carpet Looks Ever
How Every Sign in the Zodiac Finds Love
The Best Beauty Brands for REALLY Sensitive Skin
10 Things You Own That You Need to Clean Immediately
7 Times Your Favorite Celebrities Got REAL About Their Periods
If people talk about "News" they don't talk about trash entertainment like the example you just brought up. Except that that is precisely one of the problems. With everything being "flattened" by Google's personalized recommender system, Facebook's feed, and Twitter being just plain crap, it is increasingly hard to distinguish between fake news and real news. Otherwise some shitty fake news factory in Eastern Europe wouldn't be a problem, just as Teen Vogue is not a problem (according to you). It used to be the case that you could safely say that if you got your "news" from the Daily Sun, it was mostly made up shit, interspersed with the latest scandal about the celebrity of the month, and a bit of sports news. Somewhere on page 23 it would repeat the ANP headlines so it could justify calling itself a newspaper, rather than just a paper. And if you read the New York Times, you could expect some journalistic integrity. Nowadays, the good articles are all mixed up with the shit. And even the "quality" media like the WaPo is taking a hit, but it really doesn't even matter that the WaPo is posting shit, because half the time you don't even know the source of what appears on your screen (and this is made even worse with Google and Facebook cloning the web so that you can view it better on your phone screen, but makes it even more obtuse to figure out where the article originally came from). It is a Problem. But if people are surfing for News and go to their Facebook/Yahoo/Google feeds i feel like you can only blame these people themselves. Its not that hard to type in adresses of actual newspapers. Its a problem, but mainly a problem with laziness/stupidity. "Advertisement-News" should imho just be forbidden alltogether.
I have to agree that it is peoples own responsibility,but the reality is that many people get their information and world vieuw from those websites. And when there are elections or something it then becomes everyones problem. It can influence public opinion in a massive way because it is only a minority that gets their news from quality sources.
But to be fair,even the so called "quality" news papers and media are guilty to some extend. Most of them report from one angle (for example liberal or conservative). They selectively report storys that fit their agenda and ignore others.
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Oh come on, Reagan ran on the Welfare Queen stereotype all the way back in 1976, this tactic whereby one attempts to illustrate general rules using individual cases can hardly be described as anything new or unique to one side or the other.
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On January 06 2017 02:12 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 02:06 On_Slaught wrote:
Nobody had told Trump he probably shouldn't be calling Dems clowns?
As for that Chicago torture story, I agree that it should have been immediately coined a hate crime. The context makes that obvious and reveals a clear double standard.
Thankfully all the suspects are 18 so we can rest knowing they will be rotting in prison for a while. Why are people saying they are a part of BLM? I dont get why thats even being discussed:/
You may find on any BLM website the condemnation of the killing of Trayvon Martin (the most recognizable BLM website had it very prominently in their About section and front page last time I checked). George Zimmerman was later found by jury to have acted in self defense. Protests followed. Now, a white man was kidnapped and tortured by black men and the statement issued after the fact too hesitant to call it a hate crime. If the original thought was a white-looking man could kill an unarmed black man, the parallel is black men can torture whites because Trump (feel empowered to do so, f***-Trump style). It might be too nuanced for this forum, but this is all about emotional pull and psychological connection, not the preponderance of similarities.
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On January 06 2017 02:37 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 02:12 Sadist wrote:On January 06 2017 02:06 On_Slaught wrote:
Nobody had told Trump he probably shouldn't be calling Dems clowns?
As for that Chicago torture story, I agree that it should have been immediately coined a hate crime. The context makes that obvious and reveals a clear double standard.
Thankfully all the suspects are 18 so we can rest knowing they will be rotting in prison for a while. Why are people saying they are a part of BLM? I dont get why thats even being discussed:/ Because linking the attack to BLM (regardless of fairness) badly undercuts BLM and its message. All you have to do is imagine what type of coverage that we'd receive had the video been of a bunch white guys beating a black kid and forcing him to say "fuck Obama."
What about correctness? I have seen 0 evidence that BLM has anything to do with this. Or shall we from now forward associate random hate crimes to the GOP "regardless of fairness", and just because whoever shouts loudest is "right"?
In that case, I claim the Unabomber AND 911 in name of the GOP. Just for funsies, and to undercut their message.
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Seems pretty random to tie it to BLM. Why not pick the NAACP or something?
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On January 06 2017 02:55 Doodsmack wrote:
Seems pretty random to tie it to BLM. Why not pick the NAACP or something?
NAACP hasn't been particularly relevant for many moons. Last time I heard anything interesting about them was that they bought out some "racist" domain names to stop racist websites from forming there.
BLM on the other hand is very politically relevant right now. A better scapegoat.
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On January 06 2017 02:52 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 02:37 xDaunt wrote:On January 06 2017 02:12 Sadist wrote:On January 06 2017 02:06 On_Slaught wrote:
Nobody had told Trump he probably shouldn't be calling Dems clowns?
As for that Chicago torture story, I agree that it should have been immediately coined a hate crime. The context makes that obvious and reveals a clear double standard.
Thankfully all the suspects are 18 so we can rest knowing they will be rotting in prison for a while. Why are people saying they are a part of BLM? I dont get why thats even being discussed:/ Because linking the attack to BLM (regardless of fairness) badly undercuts BLM and its message. All you have to do is imagine what type of coverage that we'd receive had the video been of a bunch white guys beating a black kid and forcing him to say "fuck Obama." What about correctness? I have seen 0 evidence that BLM has anything to do with this. Or shall we from now forward associate random hate crimes to the GOP "regardless of fairness", and just because whoever shouts loudest is "right"? In that case, I claim the Unabomber AND 911 in name of the GOP. Just for funsies, and to undercut their message.
If you've seen any number of conservatives here rail against media narrative, the underlying point is reports follow the form of narrative first, correctness be damned. Random hate crimes (fate hate crimes too ^.^ see homosexuals) arguably do get tied to the GOP, provided the races are conducive to it.
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On January 06 2017 02:55 Doodsmack wrote:
Seems pretty random to tie it to BLM. Why not pick the NAACP or something?
BLM represents the "had enough already" mentality that has gone into this recent civil rights thing. The people who see our current situation as boiling over and intolerable are the types that commit hate crimes. This is a "fuck everything" reaction that BLM is certainly active in propagating. I wouldn't say this hate crime represents BLM, but attacks like the one in Chicago are a natural result of the type of thinking that is prevalent in BLM. Just like how the stuff Trump says will always result in a few crazies going too far, same thing for BLM. They are similarly negligent and irresponsible.
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On January 06 2017 02:52 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 02:37 xDaunt wrote:On January 06 2017 02:12 Sadist wrote:On January 06 2017 02:06 On_Slaught wrote:
Nobody had told Trump he probably shouldn't be calling Dems clowns?
As for that Chicago torture story, I agree that it should have been immediately coined a hate crime. The context makes that obvious and reveals a clear double standard.
Thankfully all the suspects are 18 so we can rest knowing they will be rotting in prison for a while. Why are people saying they are a part of BLM? I dont get why thats even being discussed:/ Because linking the attack to BLM (regardless of fairness) badly undercuts BLM and its message. All you have to do is imagine what type of coverage that we'd receive had the video been of a bunch white guys beating a black kid and forcing him to say "fuck Obama." What about correctness? I have seen 0 evidence that BLM has anything to do with this. Or shall we from now forward associate random hate crimes to the GOP "regardless of fairness", and just because whoever shouts loudest is "right"? In that case, I claim the Unabomber AND 911 in name of the GOP. Just for funsies, and to undercut their message.
"Fairness" and "correctness" are basically interchangeable in this context given that the attack is unfair if it is incorrect. My point is that the left already has a long history of linking its opponents on the right (including the GOP) to hate crimes and other racist issues, and that what we're seeing with elements on the right linking this Chicago attack to the BLM is the right's adoption of left wing tactics to attack the left. Identity politics are a bitch.
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On January 06 2017 02:09 Doodsmack wrote:
Some signs that Trump is walking back his intelligence statements, which is good.
I guess this is ironic. So he didn't agree with Assange. So he disagreed? Did he put a "Sad!" or "Wrong!" after repeating what Assange said?
Or are we to believe he really has no opinion?
Good think 'clown' Trump never 'lies'. 'Sad!'
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Meet Bill Stepien, White House Political Director.
Two days after announcing Stepien would become GOP chair, Christie held a news conference to apologize for the Sept. 9-13 lane closures. Authorities say members of the governor's inner circle were accused of orchestrating the scheme as retribution against Fort Lee Mayor Mark Sokolich because he declined to endorse Christie in his re-election bid.
Christie had previously said neither Stepien or any members of his staff were involved. But emails showed that apparently wasn't true. Some showed Stepien had knowledge of -- but not necessarily involvement in planning -- the plot.
At the news conference, Christie said he was not happy that the emails show Stepien made light of the closures after initial news reports about the traffic jams. In a conversation with Wildstein, Stepien wrote: "It's fine. The mayor is an idiot though."
Christie severed ties with Stepien, saying he had lost "confidence" in Stepien's judgment.
...
The report by Randy Mastro, the attorney hired by the governor to lead an internal review of his office, revealed Stepien had had an affair with Bridget Anne Kelly, a former deputy chief of staff who is awaiting trial for her alleged role in creating the four-day traffic jam.
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/08/bill_stepien_trumps_new_campaign_field_director_ha.html
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On January 06 2017 03:08 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 02:52 Acrofales wrote:On January 06 2017 02:37 xDaunt wrote:On January 06 2017 02:12 Sadist wrote:On January 06 2017 02:06 On_Slaught wrote:
Nobody had told Trump he probably shouldn't be calling Dems clowns?
As for that Chicago torture story, I agree that it should have been immediately coined a hate crime. The context makes that obvious and reveals a clear double standard.
Thankfully all the suspects are 18 so we can rest knowing they will be rotting in prison for a while. Why are people saying they are a part of BLM? I dont get why thats even being discussed:/ Because linking the attack to BLM (regardless of fairness) badly undercuts BLM and its message. All you have to do is imagine what type of coverage that we'd receive had the video been of a bunch white guys beating a black kid and forcing him to say "fuck Obama." What about correctness? I have seen 0 evidence that BLM has anything to do with this. Or shall we from now forward associate random hate crimes to the GOP "regardless of fairness", and just because whoever shouts loudest is "right"? In that case, I claim the Unabomber AND 911 in name of the GOP. Just for funsies, and to undercut their message. "Fairness" and "correctness" are basically interchangeable in this context given that the attack is unfair if it is incorrect. My point is that the left already has a long history of linking its opponents on the right (including the GOP) to hate crimes and other racist issues, and that what we're seeing with elements on the right linking this Chicago attack to the BLM is the right's adoption of left wing tactics to attack the left. Identity politics are a bitch.
I would dispute that this is unique to the left, it seems like something that has been done throughout history (in fact, I seem to recall even Cicero complaining about something similar in one of the interminable number of speeches we had to translate in Latin class). In any case, in US history it is not much different from McCarthy calling everybody who disagreed with him a communist and persecuting them on those grounds.
But regardless, the playground logic of "but mummy, bobby did it too" does not make it correct, fair, or at all okay. I understand that you are arguing in your lawyer voice and have not actually voiced your own opinion about whether or not it's a good idea to yell "BLM did it", and are rather explaining the rationale behind it. I understand the rationale, I just disagree that it should be accepted in civilized discourse.
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On January 06 2017 03:25 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 03:08 xDaunt wrote:On January 06 2017 02:52 Acrofales wrote:On January 06 2017 02:37 xDaunt wrote:On January 06 2017 02:12 Sadist wrote:On January 06 2017 02:06 On_Slaught wrote:
Nobody had told Trump he probably shouldn't be calling Dems clowns?
As for that Chicago torture story, I agree that it should have been immediately coined a hate crime. The context makes that obvious and reveals a clear double standard.
Thankfully all the suspects are 18 so we can rest knowing they will be rotting in prison for a while. Why are people saying they are a part of BLM? I dont get why thats even being discussed:/ Because linking the attack to BLM (regardless of fairness) badly undercuts BLM and its message. All you have to do is imagine what type of coverage that we'd receive had the video been of a bunch white guys beating a black kid and forcing him to say "fuck Obama." What about correctness? I have seen 0 evidence that BLM has anything to do with this. Or shall we from now forward associate random hate crimes to the GOP "regardless of fairness", and just because whoever shouts loudest is "right"? In that case, I claim the Unabomber AND 911 in name of the GOP. Just for funsies, and to undercut their message. "Fairness" and "correctness" are basically interchangeable in this context given that the attack is unfair if it is incorrect. My point is that the left already has a long history of linking its opponents on the right (including the GOP) to hate crimes and other racist issues, and that what we're seeing with elements on the right linking this Chicago attack to the BLM is the right's adoption of left wing tactics to attack the left. Identity politics are a bitch. I would dispute that this is unique to the left, in fact, it seems like something that has been done throughout history (in fact, I seem to recall even Cicero complaining about something similar in one of the interminable number of speeches we had to translate in Latin class). In any case, in US history it is not much different from McCarthy calling everybody who disagreed with him a communist and persecuting them on those grounds. But regardless, the playground logic of "but mummy, bobby did it too" does not make it correct, fair, or at all okay. I understand that you are arguing in your lawyer voice and have not actually voiced your own opinion about whether or not it's a good idea to yell "BLM did it", and are rather explaining the rationale behind it. I understand the rationale, I just disagree that it should be accepted in civilized discourse.
Civilized discourse has left the building. We are now just bomb droppers.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
The "Russian hacking" story in the U.S. has gone too far. That it's not based on any solid public evidence, and that reports of it are often so overblown as to miss the mark, is only a problem to those who worry about disinformation campaigns, propaganda and journalistic standards -- a small segment of the general public. But the recent U.S. government report that purports to substantiate technical details of recent hacks by Russian intelligence is off the mark and has the potential to do real damage to far more people and organizations.
The joint report by the Department of Homeland Security and the Federal Bureau of Investigation has a catchy name for "Russian malicious cyber activity" -- Grizzly Steppe -- and creates infinite opportunities for false flag operations that the U.S. government all but promises to attribute to Russia.
The report's goal is not to provide evidence of, say, Russian tampering with the U.S. presidential election, but ostensibly to enable U.S. organizations to detect Russian cyber-intelligence efforts and report incidents related to it to the U.S. government. It's supposed to tell network administrators what to look for. To that end, the report contains a specific YARA rule -- a bit of code used for identifying a malware sample. The rule identifies software called the PAS Tool PHP Web Kit. Some inquisitive security researchers have googled the kit and found it easy to download from the profexer.name website. It was no longer available on Monday, but researchers at Feejit, the developer of WordPress security plugin Wordfence, took some screenshots of the site, which proudly declared the product was made in Ukraine.
That, of course, isn't necessarily to be believed -- anyone can be from anywhere on the internet. The apparent developer of the malware is active on a Russian-language hacking forum under the nickname Profexer. He has advertised PAS, a free program, and thanked donors who have contributed anywhere from a few dollars to a few hundred. The program is a so-called web shell -- something a hacker will install on an infiltrated server to make file stealing and further hacking look legit. There are plenty of these in existence, and PAS is pretty common -- "used by hundreds if not thousands of hackers, mostly associated with Russia, but also throughout the rest of the world (judging by hacker forum posts)," Robert Graham of Errata Security wrote in a blog post last week.
Source
I've also heard criticism about the fact that CrowdStrike and other private companies making assertions are paid by the organization that got hacked so there could be a conflict of interest. So what this all means is that the intelligence folk had better provide proof, or GTFO.
Or maybe we cannot wait for final proof, because the smoking gun could come in the form of a mushroom cloud.
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The mob does not deserve to see the proof.
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On January 06 2017 03:34 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +The "Russian hacking" story in the U.S. has gone too far. That it's not based on any solid public evidence, and that reports of it are often so overblown as to miss the mark, is only a problem to those who worry about disinformation campaigns, propaganda and journalistic standards -- a small segment of the general public. But the recent U.S. government report that purports to substantiate technical details of recent hacks by Russian intelligence is off the mark and has the potential to do real damage to far more people and organizations.
The joint report by the Department of Homeland Security and the Federal Bureau of Investigation has a catchy name for "Russian malicious cyber activity" -- Grizzly Steppe -- and creates infinite opportunities for false flag operations that the U.S. government all but promises to attribute to Russia.
The report's goal is not to provide evidence of, say, Russian tampering with the U.S. presidential election, but ostensibly to enable U.S. organizations to detect Russian cyber-intelligence efforts and report incidents related to it to the U.S. government. It's supposed to tell network administrators what to look for. To that end, the report contains a specific YARA rule -- a bit of code used for identifying a malware sample. The rule identifies software called the PAS Tool PHP Web Kit. Some inquisitive security researchers have googled the kit and found it easy to download from the profexer.name website. It was no longer available on Monday, but researchers at Feejit, the developer of WordPress security plugin Wordfence, took some screenshots of the site, which proudly declared the product was made in Ukraine.
That, of course, isn't necessarily to be believed -- anyone can be from anywhere on the internet. The apparent developer of the malware is active on a Russian-language hacking forum under the nickname Profexer. He has advertised PAS, a free program, and thanked donors who have contributed anywhere from a few dollars to a few hundred. The program is a so-called web shell -- something a hacker will install on an infiltrated server to make file stealing and further hacking look legit. There are plenty of these in existence, and PAS is pretty common -- "used by hundreds if not thousands of hackers, mostly associated with Russia, but also throughout the rest of the world (judging by hacker forum posts)," Robert Graham of Errata Security wrote in a blog post last week. SourceI've also heard criticism about the fact that CrowdStrike and other private companies making assertions are paid by the organization that got hacked so there could be a conflict of interest. So what this all means is that the intelligence folk had better provide proof, or GTFO. Or maybe we cannot wait for final proof, because the smoking gun could come in the form of a mushroom cloud.
What's interesting to me is that a very broad political spectrum of publications is heavily scrutinizing these intelligence assessments. Only the hardcore establishment folks are on board with this "blame Russia" business.
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Did anyone watch today's congress hearings on the russia hacking issue?
I haven't and was wondering if anyone had and what they thought of it.
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They now say they received conclusive proof after the election that Russia leaked the emails to Wikileaks via a 3rd party, though they are not going to release the details due to not wanting to reveal how they obtained the information. Comey and the CIA director and others will brief Trump tomorrow. Will be interesting to see his reaction.
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EPT
