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Rezudox
207 Posts
On November 13 2012 00:55 ppshchik wrote: Please dont address skinheads as Nazis, it is an insult to true Nazis. Comparing skinheads to Nazis is like comparing hippies to Communists. They are wannabes not the real deal. Yeah we wouldn't want to insult Nazis. | ||
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Gretchen
Germany128 Posts
On November 13 2012 00:29 blug wrote: The ones you have seen, are they generally delightful (Or Rude as fuck/Intimidating?) people? Are they frowned upon from the majority of Germans? Just curious xD Of course they are frowned upon. As the OP said, when there are a 100 Neo-Nazis planning to march in the street, you can expect a few thousand people of all ages and walks of life to protest them. Mostly the police has to protect the Nazis. The common view of Neo-Nazis in the german public is: young, uneducated, violent, mislead and mentally unstable. But of course that only relates to the street-marching skinheads. There is a broader base of "normal" looking folk, that think Hitler was quite a cool guy and had a lot of good ideas. As i said: Whenever i saw a Neo-Nazi in my city i just recognized them because of the clothes they wore. There are certain dress codes, like "Lonsdale"-Shirts (you can cover up some of the letters and you get NSDA as in NSDAP). Solitary Neo-Nazis aren't a thread at all, they are mostly brooding shut-ins. They only become hatespeech-shouting brutes in larger groups. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Nolos
Germany10 Posts
Points of discussion - German / Nazi related jokes Just pointing out the irony to make "German related jokes", which are jokes about a race, in a thread in which you hate so much on racist people. (^.^)_v  My little story on the subject would be that I lived a long time in the countryside in western Germany and there were a lot of conservative people living there. And I don't mean the nice conservative style of thinking, but the kind that, when I took a job at a bank, a friend from back then asked me how I could possibly pick up such jewish work. In my humble opinion, economy is not the main problem of prejudice and racism but education is. It is true that in higher educational paths there is a lot of discussion about the third reich but I highly doubt that in lower educational institutions there's as much budget, time and willingness to learn about it. There you have the people who have no perspective, who are excluded from the "better" society (because, face it, lower education isn't regarded as a well way of living by many, especially parents). Now here I give you some advice: Don't hate so much on other people (which you do by making this aggressive thread). The moment people feel excluded they group up, because they don't want to be alone and stuff and there you have your right wing marches. So what I do is to seek open, peaceful conversation. Oh and yes I'm still friends with that one guy, even though he's voting nothing I'd vote for, but hey, there's more to people than political views. ^.^ | ||
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
Many fascists will say that Hitler was bad, but Mussolini, Salazar, and Franco were awesome. Having some far-left tendencies, I am naturally disgusted by fascism but the issues are pretty interesting. Most of them are anti-Semitic, but they have this paradoxical idea called anti-Semitic Zionism. Basically, make sure the Jews are not screwing things up in their homeland while they kick Muslim ass in Palestine. Also, many of these guys support Assad. And then there are different issues that are rather dividing. The legitimacy of the Holocaust, women's rights, gay rights, and capitalism. Some deny the Holocaust, others say that it was Hitler being psychotic, and the most extreme ones say Hitler did not go far enough. And although many of the far-right are anti-feminist, women's rights in relation to how Muslims treat their women is a major concern often fueled with protect the white women rhetoric. Some of the fascists are feminist, but most of them are disgusted with it. And gay rights are really complicated... And lastly, capitalism. Most of them are anti-capitalist protesting neo-liberalism as their main economic enemy from the EU. They favor protectionism instead and go with a Third Position. Of course some are capitalists but that is rather rare. Also, many of them do not like being called fascists and I forgot to mention the most important issue, immigration which I think we all know about. If any of you are interested, I can copy and paste articles from a Neo-fascist website from the Deep Web. Disgusting in my opinion, but incredibly interesting. | ||
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Agathon
France1505 Posts
On November 13 2012 00:52 BluePanther wrote: Not really. It may be "far right", but it's not really a "nationalist" party. Even the GOP embraces legal immigration. I think it's because the idea of being anti-immigration isn't really a feasible concept here due to our history. I think that cuts off a lot of these feelings of someone being an "other" before they become to problematic. KKK? Tea Party about Muslims? Stormfront ? EDIT : National Socialist American Workers Freedom Movement? | ||
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kafkaesque
Germany2006 Posts
On November 13 2012 01:00 Nolos wrote: Just pointing out the irony to make "German related jokes", which are jokes about a race, in a thread in which you hate so much on racist people. (^.^)_v What? Germans are their own race now? Is it 1933 again? | ||
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Sovano
United States1503 Posts
On November 13 2012 00:44 HeeroFX wrote: I don't think Germany will go back and become a state controlled by Nazi's. The main reason they were able to take power is simply because Germany was in a brutal depression, and were worse off than much of the world because Germany had just lost WW I. The Nazi party brought hope and for the most part what they did, did actually pull Germany out of the depression. Germany now is one of the strongest economies, and as long as people are happy and not desperate for change or something the current government will be fine. Germany is so stable the only way Nazi party could get power again is if people are stupid and vote them in (or however you guys put people in charge) or a hostile take over which won't happen unless the miltary decides to support it, in which case Britain would prolly bomb Germany. Pretty much this. The reparations were exceedingly high for the Germans when the Treaty of Versailles was made, and the depression hit Germany very hard. It came to a point where money was so useless that kids used them as "legos" to build houses, and people burning fires with them for warmth. Although the depression and reparations were major parts of why Germany was so vulnerable, but also the genius of Adolf Hitler. Yes, I said genius. I don't think many people will dispute that he was a persuading orator. He inspired hope into Germany after the failed monarchy of Wilhelm II. Germany was looking for a leader, and Adolf presented himself as a capable one. It's no surprise that the Nazis gained more support after Germany actually rebounded from the depression, and of course intimidation. I think its safe to assume that Germany will never go back to such a time in history again. Especially with how all of the other nations would react. This isn't the 1930s-40s where America were isolationists and the Europeans were all scattered. There's the EU now. America is always poking about on foreign policy. I doubt the EU, America, or other nations would allow Germany to become Nazi-dominated again. | ||
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sekritzzz
1515 Posts
The best example of the dangerous rise of extremism in Europe is in Greece. Golden Dawn (Neo-nazi's) won a large portion of the vote this recent greek election. This is a video of him expressing his views. A Greek member of parliament from Golden Dawn on TV: | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
the cautionary viewer of the thread may draw any and all connections to war debt and so on | ||
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Tula
Austria1544 Posts
On November 13 2012 00:47 Scorch wrote: You have it good in Germany, with no real right-wing party in parliament and a general zero tolerance consensus against the far right among all political parties. Austria's FPÖ, while not a straight-up nazi party because that would be illegal, is a very real force in Austrian politics. They even were part of the governing coalition from 2000 to 2007 and will probably get around 25% in next year's election. Most alarmingly, the FPÖ is far and away the strongest party among young voters, with 42% of people under 30 voting for them. and whose fault is that? Frankly our current goverment is to blame for that 100%. Quite simply put the FPÖ is the only opposition party which seems like a viable option for a "protest" vote against our current gov. We are so deadlocked and ineffective that sooner or later a new party has to rise. Even if i detest Strache and his collection of idiots, it's easy to see why he is so attractive to voters. All he has to do is stand in front of the media and flat out lie about how everything would be better if he was in power. We'd stop paying for the EU (even if we can't), we'd go back to the Schilling (which is flat out impossible as well) and obviously we'd kick those scumbag greeks!!! Sadly I'm not kidding, all 3 statements were made by him within the last year. Frankly i consider movements like him more dangerous than 5-10% fringe voters on the far right or far left, mostly because it shows that we are STILL not educating our population well enough for democracy to work. (Note I have no clue where your numbers about young voters come from, the only serious poll I found lists them at 17% http://derstandard.at/1338559343468/Jugendstudie-FPOe-bei-Jungwaehlern-auf-Platz-eins-Piraten-liegen-vor-OeVP-und-SPOe ). | ||
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Rokit5
236 Posts
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ppshchik
United States862 Posts
Poll: Should Holocaust denial be considered a crime? No, Holocaust denial laws are against freedom of speech (69) Yes, Holocaust deniers should be in jail (41) 110 total votes Your vote: Should Holocaust denial be considered a crime? (Vote): Yes, Holocaust deniers should be in jail | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On November 13 2012 01:11 ppshchik wrote: Germany pretty much gave the moral high ground to the neo Nazis by the time they made Holocaust denial a crime. Poll: Should Holocaust denial be considered a crime? No, Holocaust denial laws are against freedom of speech (69) Yes, Holocaust deniers should be in jail (41) 110 total votes Your vote: Should Holocaust denial be considered a crime? (Vote): Yes, Holocaust deniers should be in jail of course it can be criminalized. the danger posed by diluting and obfuscating history is clear and grave. for all the obsession over freedom of speech, put some effort in actually making sensible speech. | ||
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Rezudox
207 Posts
On November 13 2012 01:11 ppshchik wrote: Germany pretty much gave the moral high ground to the neo Nazis by the time they made Holocaust denial a crime. You can't be serious. | ||
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Agathon
France1505 Posts
On November 13 2012 01:11 ppshchik wrote: Germany pretty much gave the moral high ground to the neo Nazis by the time they made Holocaust denial a crime. Poll: Should Holocaust denial be considered a crime? No, Holocaust denial laws are against freedom of speech (69) Yes, Holocaust deniers should be in jail (41) 110 total votes Your vote: Should Holocaust denial be considered a crime? (Vote): Yes, Holocaust deniers should be in jail Yes. And it's the case in France. Holocaust denial is a crime. | ||
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Hypemeup
Sweden2783 Posts
On November 13 2012 01:11 ppshchik wrote: Germany pretty much gave the moral high ground to the neo Nazis by the time they made Holocaust denial a crime. Poll: Should Holocaust denial be considered a crime? No, Holocaust denial laws are against freedom of speech (69) Yes, Holocaust deniers should be in jail (41) 110 total votes Your vote: Should Holocaust denial be considered a crime? (Vote): Yes, Holocaust deniers should be in jail Yep, they did. I think banning people from believing what they want is a very slippery slope, even if what they are believing is factually incorrect or based in superstition. | ||
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
And yeah...the Neo-Nazis have the moral high ground (yet immoral) with Holocaust denial being a crime. They are and have stated that their freedom is being destroyed and they are being persecuted by the government. Funny thing is, they cite George Orwell as their source. | ||
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Cirqueenflex
499 Posts
For example in west Germany, many people dislike the french. That is somewhat based upon a ton of history of going to war with them, but also based upon them isolating themselves, not trying to learn other languages, being mean to foreigners, different culture etc pp. Now if you would ask people on the street what they think about the french, you will get some responses of disliking them. Are those people right-winged? Do they sympathize with neo-nazis? I don't know. The same case could be made for people from east Germany and Polish people, for example, or islamic people (as the Koran seems to include a lot of holy war, killing people who do not believe, enslaving women etc). So bear in mind that those numbers might not actually reflect that much. | ||
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drooL
United Kingdom2108 Posts
On November 13 2012 01:09 Rokit5 wrote: But the antifascist movement in Germany is also very strong? Organistations like antifa and the likes? well antifa are just left wing extremists, who are in NO way 'better' or 'more respectable' than nazis. I will give a more thorough opinion later today as I'm currently in a lecture, but I had to reply to this. | ||
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