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Hey guys,
given Germany's history, one should think that even the most idiotic and uneducated Germans recognize Hitler's regime for what it was. However, as long as I've been able to read news, Neonazis are gaining in numbers and political strength.
A recent study by the Friedrich Ebert Stiftung, a foundation to promote democracy, has shown that an alarming number of Germans, to be precise: 9%, embrace far right political views an sympathize with the Nazi-Party or its (rather pathetic and ineffectual) reincarnation: NPD.
In East Germany, the structurally weaker ex-GDR, the numbers are downright terrifying:
During the past two years, the number of far right-wings has been more than doubled, from 6.6 to more than 15%. Which makes these numbers more alarming is that those who have been indoctrinated by the original Nazis are virtually extinct, so we're speaking of an entirely new generation of Nazis.
Surely these Neo-Nazis are misled by a cunning political entity?
Far from it. The NPD is a joke, it's not even worth mentioning. Although they have representation in 2/16 state parliaments, with no representation in the federal government, it is extremely hard to take them seriously. Their public appearances are clumsy, borderline comical, and attest a chaotic, haphazard political program without clear direction.
Why is this problematic?
If you grow up in Germany, you will be thoroughly educated about the Nazi Party.
The history of the Third Reich is mandatory part of your historical education and secondary schools frequently have week-long projects to further awareness of the horrors of Hitler's Germany. Chances are, you will at one point visit one of the concentration camps of Buchenwald or Auschwitz and schools go through great lenghts to get jewish orators who have witnessed Nazi Germany first hand. History programs on TV eat up that chapter as well and the Federal Agency for Civic Education offers a plethora of different magazines for free so one can educate oneself even further.
Against this background, it seems unthinkable that anyone could embrace Nazi ideals, because it's virtually impossible to grow up in Germany and not have a rather thorough understanding of them.
How do other Germans deal with these issues?
German constitution gives anyone including the Nazis the right for public assembly, NPD-member ofttimes gather in large numbers to March for their misguided cause and try to recruit members.
Obviously, the rest of Germany isn't oblivious to those assemblies and since the right-wing-extremists are vastly outnumbered, usually peaceful protest prevents them from marching.
Personal opinion
To be perfectly clear, I don't suggest that in 10 years time we'll go about killing Jews and invading Poland again, I just want to express my anger and sadness that despite comprehensive educational matters and in times of peace of properity, there grows a new generation of antisemetic, antiislamic and antidemocratic young people who sympathise with the demonic Nazi regime.
Points of discussion
- German / Nazi related jokes
- Speculation of sources (educational, economic, political etc.)
- Right-wing extremists in your own country
- etc.
English source:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17514394
German source:
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/rechtsextremismus-in-ostdeutschland-nimmt-zu-a-866712.html
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Neonazis make me feel sick to the stomach. Worst part of it are the people who know exactly what happened with Hitler and are still neonazis. Scum of the earth...
I guess fucked up people will always be around, its when they get to power that things go wrong.
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Far-right xenophobic populism has been on the rise this past decade all across Europe. Germany is no exception in the matter, though they may have a different view on things due to their history.
I do feel that in the current day and age, with global communication accessible to anyone in developed countries, it would be very hard for a Nazi-like party to gain total control over a country like they did in Germany in the 1930's. Nevertheless, it's something to be wary about.
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Netherlands45341 Posts
I would like to see the methodology behind the study, 9% seems far too much.
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When threads like this pop up I sometimes read a few threads on Stormfront, and I always end up wondering why people think the way they do.
An example of what I'm referring to:
1) a guy is asking how he finds out if his girlfriend is a "white nationalist"
You could ask her who are her favorite actors and musicians.
If she lists Black actors and musicians...
If she does list Blacks, she may either simply be unaware and have been conditioned by society or she may be anti-White.
... like seriously?
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Nazi related jokes? + Show Spoiler +
Tasteless jokes aside, in sweden we currently have a far-right political party in Parliament since 2010, and they have been gaining support as of late, probably related to the Swedish Social Democratic Party having a pretty rough stretch for afew years. Their main issues are Immigration and the Sami People - If you are interested you should read their wiki page, it seems to be fairly accurate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_Democrats
Personally I feel like this is the crap you have to tolerate in a democracy. Far-right movements do seem to pop up when the economy is in the tank, especially in the poor areas that might suffer the most.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
far right sentiments is a proper public concern. much like terrorism, racism and other kinds of 'bad' ideology. it needs to be controlled and eradicated if possible.
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To be honest, I think you've gone almost the entire post without hitting on the reason why this might be occuring.
On November 13 2012 00:12 kafkaesque wrote:
there grows a new generation of antisemetic, antiislamic and antidemocratic young people
This is a worldwide phenomenon and there are numerous and complicated reasons for it.
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It's the economy, stupid.
Germany may look economically strong compared to the rest of Europe, maybe even the world, but we still have high unemployment rates in exactly the parts of Germany where the Neo-Nazis grow stronger. Economic hardships always breed extremist movements, look at Greece, Eastern Europe or even Russia. They FOUGHT against Nazis in WW2 and now they fly the swastika and march in the streets.
I live in Munich and pretty much never meet any Neo-Nazis, because Munich is one of the richest cities in Germany and Europe. We even have one of the highest percentages of foreign population of big german cities, but there aren't any problems, because there are also enough jobs.
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Almost every country in Europe has a rise of extremists. France and Belgium too.
Doesn't it happen every recession? Easier to blame others for one's own shortcomings.
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On November 13 2012 00:27 Gretchen wrote:
It's the economy, stupid.
Germany may look economically strong compared to the rest of Europe, maybe even the world, but we still have high unemployment rates in exactly the parts of Germany where the Neo-Nazis grow stronger. Economic hardships always breed extremist movements, look at Greece, Eastern Europe or even Russia. They FOUGHT against Nazis in WW2 and now they fly the swastika and march in the streets.
I live in Munich and pretty much never meet any Neo-Nazis, because Munich is one of the richest cities in Germany and Europe. We even have one of the highest percentages of foreign population of big german cities, but there aren't any problems, because there are also enough jobs.
The ones you have seen, are they generally delightful (Or Rude as fuck/Intimidating?) people? Are they frowned upon from the majority of Germans?
Just curious xD
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On November 13 2012 00:22 Kipsate wrote:
I would like to see the methodology behind the study, 9% seems far too much.
Actually eastern Germany has a really high amount of very far right people. I wouldn't call them Neonazis since that term is used too broadly these days, but their views are very similar. It's mostly hate on foreigners from Poland or the Czech Republic that makes them support anyone that promises to get rid of those.
A reason for that is probably the high unemployment in that area and how easy it is to blame polish or czech immigrants for "stealing the jobs".
In western germany i don't think there are more than a few crazy people, i would say it's a lot less than 9% in those regions.
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National Socialist German Workers' Party. Socialism is still prevelant throughout the world. It is no surprise that it is in Germany or Greece or America or anywhere.
Next time socialism trys its hand at world domination, it will not be by force, but by coercion and subversion. The more citizens rely on social funding etc, the more power the local government has over the individual.
A solution to this would be for every individual to decline such handouts whenever possible and be responsible in commerce and contracts, knowing their rights and responsibilities and fighting tooth and nail whenever social programs are introduced to replace existing models.
Edit: People seem to think Nazi means "far right", I argue that the opposite is true. Their objectives require government to be a surrogate parent to citizens.
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This is indeed scary, but hardly surprising. Every country has their share of these idiots.
If you grow up in Germany, you will be thoroughly educated about the Nazi Party.
The history of the Third Reich is mandatory part of your historical education and secondary schools frequently have week-long projects to further awareness of the horrors of Hitler's Germany. Chances are, you will at one point visit one of the concentration camps of Buchenwald or Auschwitz and schools go through great lenghts to get jewish orators who have witnessed Nazi Germany first hand. History programs on TV eat up that chapter as well and the Federal Agency for Civic Education offers a plethora of different magazines for free so one can educate oneself even further.
Amazing if true. I look at countries like Japan who are being hated on by their neighbors because they are not educating the general population about WW2 and the atrocities of the Empire of the Rising Sun, and would rather focus on how they are the only victims (Hiroshima/Nagasaki). That's equally as sickening as this. Germans are actually educated about the Nazis!
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I believe you are misreading the data. I very much doubt 15% of east-germans think of themselves as "neo-nazis" or even "far-right". If it's anything, it's less about being a jew-hater and more about discontent regarding the current policies on immigration. There is currently this terribly popular idea in the media that the muslims, or islamists, are taking over Europe, and that eventually the whole world will be come Iran.
While the media coverage may be somewhat exaggerated, I do feel much like alot of other people, in my country and yours, that my own country is becoming less and less mine every time there is a mosque built or a compromise made in parliament for "sensitivity towards immigrants". I don't hate immigrants, I don't hate muslims, but I can't help but feel angry when they come into my country and demand more and more "rights" while at the same time refusing to assimilate.
At the same time, I recognize that this is a somewhat demonized image of immigrants. Of course they are not all a collective group of dicks that come into another man's house and make demands. The vocal minority always give the majority a bad rap. And as long as I do not have to give up freedoms of my own, what's the harm in anything anyone else does? Either way, if I want to hear people shouting praise of Allah from the rooftops, I'd sooner go to Afghanistan than have to hear it in my own country, where I have my own culture and traditions.
I may have rambled a bit but TL:DR => people are not nazis just because they feel unease at the growing amount of foreign influences in their countries.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On November 13 2012 00:31 Raggamuffinoo wrote:
National Socialist German Workers' Party. Socialism is still prevelant throughout the world. It is no surprise that it is in Germany or Greece or America or anywhere.
Next time socialism trys its hand at world domination, it will not be by force, but by coercion and subversion. The more citizens rely on social funding etc, the more power the local government has over the individual.
A solution to this would be for every individual to decline such handouts whenever possible and be responsible in commerce and contracts, knowing their rights and responsibilities and fighting tooth and nail whenever social programs are introduced to replace existing models.
yea the nice old ladies in oxbridge are after your freedom. get real.
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Actually they are around 2-5% with a lot of protest voters, and in Germany are actually way less nazis than in other europe states and this is because Germany was National socialistic and has a good education, so this legacy makes the germans way more resistant to right ideology than most other states in the world.
Also if you look on election results in other countries, in Germany the NPD has way less votes than other right wing parties in other countries.
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I think the problem has been the lack of a mainstream party that questions immigration. Any attempt has been met with harsh criticism from the media so it's been a non-issue for a long time. A lot of people feel like their views aren't being represented, and after a while they flock to the extremes. I'm not in the least surprised. It's scary, but not surprising.
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For all the comments about how America is too far right politically, Europe always has this problem and we never really do.
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On November 13 2012 00:32 Xpace wrote:This is indeed scary, but hardly surprising. Every country has their share of these idiots. Show nested quote +If you grow up in Germany, you will be thoroughly educated about the Nazi Party.
The history of the Third Reich is mandatory part of your historical education and secondary schools frequently have week-long projects to further awareness of the horrors of Hitler's Germany. Chances are, you will at one point visit one of the concentration camps of Buchenwald or Auschwitz and schools go through great lenghts to get jewish orators who have witnessed Nazi Germany first hand. History programs on TV eat up that chapter as well and the Federal Agency for Civic Education offers a plethora of different magazines for free so one can educate oneself even further.
Amazing if true. I look at countries like Japan who are being hated on by their neighbors because they are not educating the general population about WW2 and the atrocities of the Empire of the Rising Sun, and would rather focus on how they are the only victims (Hiroshima/Nagasaki). That's equally as sickening as this. Germans are actually educated about the Nazis!
Yes, at school we went through the whole WW2 thing 3 times at great length, including visiting some concentration camp (forgot which one). It was about 95% of the history education and the rest of history got mostly skipped over. It's ridiculous actually. After going through it once, maybe spending half a year of history lessons on that all understood that it was a bad time and noone wants that to happen again, so learning something about the other few thousand years of history would have been nice.
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