Nazi-Uprising in Present Day Germany - Page 29

On November 13 2012 00:20 Rannasha wrote:
Far-right xenophobic populism has been on the rise this past decade all across Europe. Germany is no exception in the matter, though they may have a different view on things due to their history.

I do feel that in the current day and age, with global communication accessible to anyone in developed countries, it would be very hard for a Nazi-like party to gain total control over a country like they did in Germany in the 1930's. Nevertheless, it's something to be wary about.

On November 15 2012 00:13 AngryMag wrote:

Germany has 80 million inhabitants and 2.5 rightwing murders every year and yet you speak of rightwing extremism like it would be everywhere and omnipresent. Your argumentation is totally onesided, misinforming and build up on fearmongering on fox news level.

On November 15 2012 00:29 zatic wrote:

I am sorry?

Here is my first post in this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16883057

On November 15 2012 00:24 Bahamut1337 wrote:


What I find funny is when someone points out the downright failed state of the multicultural society of European nations you are suddenly a xenophobe populist and a nazi.

Is it wrong to point out that 3rd world immigrants out of africa and the Middle East / North Africa have failed to bring any contribution to Europe?

High wellfare abuse, high crime, low employment, no integration yet when a sane person points this out he is a bigot / racist / nazi. Immigrants have brought the wellfare state of the 70's to the brink of collapse but better not point this out.

Amount of nazi's in europe? Near zero I can imagine, amount of people sick of a failed multicultural state ? a lot.

On November 14 2012 13:26 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Well, I can't speak for everyone, but.
All I ever hear about with nazis is how terrible this and that are, I feel like I've only ever heard one side of the argument. It's not too dissimilar with things like the twin towers and the Iraq war.
I really want to hear the perspective of the people being ostracised sometimes, especially with nazi's.
-Out of the loop-

On November 15 2012 01:24 Talin wrote:


The thing is that immigration and other social issues you mentioned have next to nothing to do with culture, and it's a fallacy to use those assumptions as arguments to reject the idea of multiculturalism and cultural acceptance.

Most immigrants you describe aren't like that because of their cultural background, they're like that mostly because of their (or their parents') socioeconomic background. Hence blaming it on multiculturalism and identifying people as problematic based on their cultural background does make one a bit of a xenophobe.

On November 15 2012 01:24 Talin wrote:


The thing is that immigration and other social issues you mentioned have next to nothing to do with culture, and it's a fallacy to use those assumptions as arguments to reject the idea of multiculturalism and cultural acceptance.

Most immigrants you describe aren't like that because of their cultural background, they're like that mostly because of their (or their parents') socioeconomic background. Hence blaming it on multiculturalism and identifying people as problematic based on their cultural background does make one a bit of a xenophobe.

On November 15 2012 02:27 sephiria wrote:


If that was true, why don't we have similar problems with immigrants from Poland, Japan or France?
I think culture contributes greatly to the problem even though socioeconomic background is the trigger.
The problem is not their culture itself (or their 'race' or whatever you want to use as 'group-marker') but the fact that the welfare state is counterproductive for assimilation. You just don't need to work to get a flat, a Tv, booze, internet etc. So why should these people bother?
Also I think (not entirely sure) it's common knowledge that multiculturalism has failed at least on an economic scale. I think someone bothered to calculate the numbers for Norway oder Denmark somewhere? You would not be allowed to do that in Germany, but that doesn't change the fact that it was 'a bad idea' from the beginning.

On November 15 2012 02:27 sephiria wrote:


If that was true, why don't we have similar problems with immigrants from Poland, Japan or France?
I think culture contributes greatly to the problem even though socioeconomic background is the trigger.
The problem is not their culture itself (or their 'race' or whatever you want to use as 'group-marker') but the fact that the welfare state is counterproductive for assimilation. You just don't need to work to get a flat, a Tv, booze, internet etc. So why should these people bother?
Also I think (not entirely sure) it's common knowledge that multiculturalism has failed at least on an economic scale. I think someone bothered to calculate the numbers for Norway oder Denmark somewhere? You would not be allowed to do that in Germany, but that doesn't change the fact that it was 'a bad idea' from the beginning.

Against this background, it seems unthinkable that anyone could embrace Nazi ideals, because it's virtually impossible to grow up in Germany and not have a rather thorough understanding of them.

On November 15 2012 03:08 Wegandi wrote:


Ironically, many Asian countries have very strict immigration controls and are very homogeneous. I often wonder why the ire isn't directed toward their racist ways, also? /shrug

The problem as you identified isn't multi-culturalism per se, but the Welfare State. If you observe many millions of poor people flooding into your countries and contributing little while taking much, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the cause and effect relationship that the natives or indigenous population won't generally take a strong liking to this sort of behavior.

Open borders and State Welfare do not mix. I am an advocate for open borders, and no Welfare, which worked just fine for America for over a hundred years. Social Democrats are a pox - ruin, social strife, and chaos always follow in their path. The surest way to destroy a country is for the population to vote themselves the public treasury and their fellow neighbors property, and then in the same breath open the doors to the world for them to come in and enjoy in the pillaging. A successful, stable, and sustainable country it doth not make.

On November 15 2012 03:39 Aterons_toss wrote:


This is exactly the problem, if an education makes it impossible for someone to embrace fascist-like ideals than it means that education is obviously based.

Nazism was bad much like communism was bad. But extreme right/extreme left ideal in general are not bad, quite the opposite, if you read any humanist philosophy you will see that similar systems were proposed and they could have even in recent days worked quite well "theoretically".

The Nazi in 20 century Germany were not evil incarnate as a "philosophy", indeed they were not worse than current American and European governs protecting the church and it's rights even tho the church is openly sexists and some of them ( most ) heavily racist as well.

Nazi didn't want all the Jews, blacks, Chinese... etc dead, only some extremist got that far ( and it was due to monetary reasons mostly ), they did believe race inequality and had a right extreme doctrine which is obviously going to be far less than a success when applied in a real situation. If you teach this at school instead " EVERYTHING NAZI IS EVIL INCARNATE" than you are likely to only have a very small majority of people believe nazi was " the right thing " and that silent minority will never be able to grow much like extremist of any kind haven't been able to grow in current 1st world countries.

But if you portray it as the pure evil than it will get people to question the information they are given and actually say "maybe they are the bad guys and trying to make the Nazi look bad".
Twisting the truth and hammering on an issue such as Nazi only to make sure it never comes back is really silly in this day and age.

Not that there are any chances it would in Germany at any rate, but you would likely see less of this if they had not done that.

On November 15 2012 03:39 Aterons_toss wrote:


This is exactly the problem, if an education makes it impossible for someone to embrace fascist-like ideals than it means that education is obviously based.

Nazism was bad much like communism was bad. But extreme right/extreme left ideal in general are not bad, quite the opposite, if you read any humanist philosophy you will see that similar systems were proposed and they could have even in recent days worked quite well "theoretically".

The Nazi in 20 century Germany were not evil incarnate as a "philosophy", indeed they were not worse than current American and European governs protecting the church and it's rights even tho the church is openly sexists and some of them ( most ) heavily racist as well.

Nazi didn't want all the Jews, blacks, Chinese... etc dead, only some extremist got that far ( and it was due to monetary reasons mostly ), they did believe race inequality and had a right extreme doctrine which is obviously going to be far less than a success when applied in a real situation. If you teach this at school instead " EVERYTHING NAZI IS EVIL INCARNATE" than you are likely to only have a very small majority of people believe nazi was " the right thing " and that silent minority will never be able to grow much like extremist of any kind haven't been able to grow in current 1st world countries.

But if you portray it as the pure evil than it will get people to question the information they are given and actually say "maybe they are the bad guys and trying to make the Nazi look bad".
Twisting the truth and hammering on an issue such as Nazi only to make sure it never comes back is really silly in this day and age.

Not that there are any chances it would in Germany at any rate, but you would likely see less of this if they had not done that.

On November 15 2012 03:59 mcc wrote:

Or maybe if education makes it impossible for someone to embrace nazism it succeeded spectacularly. Because that is the goal of education, to form people so they are able to function in society. Nazism is (no matter which flavor) evil either as ideology or as practical implementation. Or do you think that wars, racism or genocide are not evil ? Non-evil people seeing nazism for what it really is means that they will never want to embrace it. Thus if education presents nazism as it truly is convincingly enough it will prevent people from embracing it. And that is success.

What you are saying is basically the same as someone saying that if education makes it impossible for someone to embrace that 1+1=3, then it is biased. Which I hope you can clearly see as nonsense.

On November 15 2012 03:55 ACrow wrote:

Obviously it is not impossible to drift towards right ideology, even with the German education system. And maybe you got the wrong impression, it's not like the teacher is standing in front of the class and states "nazis are evil incarnate" or twisting facts or anything, it is more that you learn how the Nazis came to power, what their political intentions were, how they killed off any political opposition, what war crimes they committed and of course about the holocaust. Of course you also learn that they build a lot of infrastructure (e.g. the highway system), that they created jobs etc - but you also learn how, why and at what cost. You discuss this in class, and obviously most students will then have a devastating opinion of Nazis and their ideology. Now obviously you could argue that that creates peer pressure, but you get presented with facts, and do not get indoctrinated as some people here make it out to seem.

I actually can't fathom how anyone that has learned what happened in that time would defend their ideology or say they weren't so bad. For example the population of the east european countries was classified as slavic people and thus "Untermenschen", in the mind of the Nazis people way less worth than germanic people. If they were allowed to live on, only as servants to their master race. I mean seriously, how could anyone feel something different than despise for the Nazis?

On November 15 2012 04:06 Aterons_toss wrote:


Well your are from a country that has much stronger connections to Germany in general from what i know and you likely know more about their education system than me since i was drawing conclusion based on a few posts.

If the education system isn't bias to the issue than it's likely that this will never become a problem in Germany... nor would it if it was and to be honest discussing this is kind pointless since, as was pointed out before, extremist right party existed and were quick to fall short in voters,

I was only making the argument that circle jerking around how bad Nazism was wouldn't help but rather damage the image of "non Nazi". If this circlejerk happens and at what scale it's not in my knowledge so maybe I just have my facts ( or rather lack of them ) wrong and this is a non issue.

Also 1+1 = 2 vs 1+1 = 3 is a whole other thing because we are trying to compare exact science to politics and ideologies. I get the point but i would say it doesn't really work the same way, you can always have an argument for any policy no matter how outrageous because it is in the end subjective and no policy whatsoever is the " RIGHT " but you can never have one for 1+1 = 3 because 1+1 = 2 is objectively the absolute truth.

On November 15 2012 04:37 mcc wrote:

You can have arguments for some evil policies, but that just makes you evil. It is as easy as that. Nazi ideology is not some squabble about taxes and even not the debate about abortion. Good and evil are not as subjective as some people think they are, but that would take us to a discussion that I had in other threads often enough.

As for the rest, with your more specific explanation, I get what you are trying to say, but there is no need for some knee-jerk examples of why nazis are bad in schools, there are plenty of clear examples for everyone to see. No circle-jerk is needed for any sane person to not embrace nazism after having objective, but sufficiently exhaustive, lesson on nazism.