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On November 13 2012 00:36 BluePanther wrote:
For all the comments about how America is too far right politically, Europe always has this problem and we never really do.
Most of which stems from the fact that having a line allighment for political parties is extreemly inacurate, and produces funny results.
On November 14 2012 09:25 oneofthem wrote:
i had thought you were some kind of harmless oddity before, but when you blame freed black slaves for the racial tensions of the south. seriously?
It is perfectly possible that they do have significant responsibility, granted in no way entire.
Black slaves were poorly if at all educated and probably many of them remembered the tribal life in Africa, so it is not hard to imagine that some of those people would do things that were not well recived by the white people, and by us today as well.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
mmkay. tell us more about noble southern efforts for racial harmony being sabotaged by the north. actually, don't.
i don't really want to start a pissing contest with you. most of the stuff i read are in other fields. you can be a historian about nazis. we need more of that.
edit: @guy above. i have no words.
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As for people disliking anti-imigration position and living in countries with strong labour unions, those people are funny hypocrites.
The anti-imigration and labour unions are based on the same principle of limiting supply of labour, and have similar intent, to either drive the labour price up, or getting people that currently have no job a job, due to employer having to work with limited supply of candidates for employment.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
i admit i've never heard the southern revisionist story about reconstruction. mostly it's about how the federal government abandoned blacks for a hundred years after trying but failing to let blacks vote and have some political power in the south
thanks for balancing out the history though because we really need to have an understanding of the southern soul.
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On November 14 2012 08:55 Rassy wrote:
With the usa election thread gone and the eurocrisis thread forgotton i guess this is my new thread to go on the forum for now.
Not realy my piece of cake but you have to go with the limited amount of threads offerd.
Annyway:The title is laughable and couldnt be further from the truth.
Germany has the smallest amount of right extremists of every country in europe lol.
This is because as a result of the war german people have a realy high awareness for what can happen.
They grow up learning all the horros of the nazi regime and feel guilty about that.
It is much more interesting to discuss the uprising of extreme right in previously tollerant nations as the netherlands, or the consistantly high ratings extremist partys get in france, since they are actually reason for a concern.
Generally these parties are right wing populism (tax funded candy every saturday!) and tend to be a way to show dissatisfaction of the current parties.
In times of economic crisis, the extreme right always gets a boost at the same rate as the uneducated get laid off.
It is indeed alarming though in many countries, and especially in the traditionally liberal ones.
On November 14 2012 09:57 naastyOne wrote:
As for people disliking anti-imigration position and living in countries with strong labour unions, those people are funny hypocrites.
The anti-imigration and labour unions are based on the same principle of limiting supply of labour, and have similar intent, to either drive the labour price up, or getting people that currently have no job a job, due to employer having to work with limited supply of candidates for employment.
Immigrants are also employers.
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On November 14 2012 10:00 oneofthem wrote:
i admit i've never heard the southern revisionist story about reconstruction. mostly it's about how the federal government abandoned blacks for a hundred years after trying but failing to let blacks vote and have some political power in the south
thanks for balancing out the history though because we really need to have an understanding of the southern soul.
As someone who always advocates moderation, I wouldn't encourage you to take in that southern soul too rapidly. A large feast is unhealthy to the undernourished body, and you might choke on the morsels of learning which may be difficult to disgorge, and abandon you to moral ambiguity, relativism, or even nihilism.
When we were children we were happy to know a little of something. When we turn teens some disease strikes us and we begin to know everything about everything. Somehow most of us go on from there and reconnect to a sane view of himself in the world, so don't fret under your malaise. It happens to everyone nowadays.
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This is the era of information even if worse came to worst, some jew would tweet and ask for help before a genocide ...
I wouldn't call today's politics as nazi but as xenophobe. Not wanting to kill, but perhaps deport ....
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On November 14 2012 10:31 MoltkeWarding wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 10:00 oneofthem wrote:
i admit i've never heard the southern revisionist story about reconstruction. mostly it's about how the federal government abandoned blacks for a hundred years after trying but failing to let blacks vote and have some political power in the south
thanks for balancing out the history though because we really need to have an understanding of the southern soul. As someone who always advocates moderation, I wouldn't encourage you to take in that southern soul too rapidly. A large feast is unhealthy to the undernourished body, and you might choke on the morsels of learning which may be difficult to disgorge, and give abandon you to moral ambiguity, relativism, or even nihilism. When we were children we were happy to know a little of something. When we turn teens some disease strikes us and we begin to know everything about everything. Somehow most of us go on from there and reconnect to a sane view of himself in the world, so don't fret under your malaise. It happens to everyone nowadays.
To-morrow, and to-morrow and to-morrow
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow; a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury
Signifying nothing.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
i've seen your sentimentalism and found it wanting. yawn.
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Since I've now been inundated with Shakespeare, and the charge of sentimentalism, how could I now resist?
My departing advice to my friend for the night:
Then wave at me your pencil, then
At distance bid me stand,
Before the cavern’d cliff, again
The creature of your hand.
And bid me then go past the nook
To sketch me less in size;
There are but few content to look
So little in your eyes.
Delight us with the gifts you have,
And wish for none beyond:
To some be gay, to some be grave,
To one (blest [maid]!) be fond.
Pleasures there are how close to Pain,
And better unpossest!
Let poetry’s too throbbing vein
Lie quiet in your breast.
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what the hell is going on in this thread?
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On November 14 2012 10:57 Euronyme wrote:
what the hell is going on in this thread?
There's a Nazi uprising in present day Germany. Haven't you heard?
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On November 14 2012 10:58 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 10:57 Euronyme wrote:
what the hell is going on in this thread? There's a Nazi uprising in present day Germany. Haven't you heard?
Nah, man. I missed it 'cause Shakespear is standing in the way.
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On November 14 2012 01:37 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 15:24 Mallard86 wrote:
Europe has been leaning to the left heavily for quite some time. Its only natural that there be some backlash especially when things arent going well. Of course, its hardly neo-nazism just like "far" left ideologies are hardly communism. Its just a branding by the left influenced moderates and leftists to demonize any sort of right movements. Europe is pretty much in the center, not to the left. Current economic troubles cause rise to both right and left wing extremist movements.
Tax rates, social policies, entitlement and nationalization would disagree.
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On November 14 2012 11:07 Mallard86 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 01:37 mcc wrote:On November 13 2012 15:24 Mallard86 wrote:
Europe has been leaning to the left heavily for quite some time. Its only natural that there be some backlash especially when things arent going well. Of course, its hardly neo-nazism just like "far" left ideologies are hardly communism. Its just a branding by the left influenced moderates and leftists to demonize any sort of right movements. Europe is pretty much in the center, not to the left. Current economic troubles cause rise to both right and left wing extremist movements. Tax rates, social policies, entitlement and nationalization would disagree.
Many a right wing European government is working hard to sell out whatever national treasure and safety there's left. Europe's moving quickly from the tax funded left to the bankrupt right.
Edit. Example: Our own Swedish right wing government proposing to raise national debt in order to lower taxes. Sounds like a plan for the future.
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On November 14 2012 11:10 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 11:07 Mallard86 wrote:On November 14 2012 01:37 mcc wrote:On November 13 2012 15:24 Mallard86 wrote:
Europe has been leaning to the left heavily for quite some time. Its only natural that there be some backlash especially when things arent going well. Of course, its hardly neo-nazism just like "far" left ideologies are hardly communism. Its just a branding by the left influenced moderates and leftists to demonize any sort of right movements. Europe is pretty much in the center, not to the left. Current economic troubles cause rise to both right and left wing extremist movements. Tax rates, social policies, entitlement and nationalization would disagree. Many a right wing European government is working hard to sell out whatever national treasure and safety there's left. Europe's moving quickly from the tax funded left to the bankrupt right. Edit. Example: Our own Swedish right wing government proposing to raise national debt in order to lower taxes. Sounds like a plan for the future.
This is a perfect example of a left entrenched population. You have lived so long in such a left position that you view your position as moderate. The reality is that both left and right positions are not particularly effective and a moderate position is best but in most of Europe, and increasingly the US, a moderate position is seen as right wing.
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On November 14 2012 11:13 Mallard86 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 11:10 Euronyme wrote:On November 14 2012 11:07 Mallard86 wrote:On November 14 2012 01:37 mcc wrote:On November 13 2012 15:24 Mallard86 wrote:
Europe has been leaning to the left heavily for quite some time. Its only natural that there be some backlash especially when things arent going well. Of course, its hardly neo-nazism just like "far" left ideologies are hardly communism. Its just a branding by the left influenced moderates and leftists to demonize any sort of right movements. Europe is pretty much in the center, not to the left. Current economic troubles cause rise to both right and left wing extremist movements. Tax rates, social policies, entitlement and nationalization would disagree. Many a right wing European government is working hard to sell out whatever national treasure and safety there's left. Europe's moving quickly from the tax funded left to the bankrupt right. Edit. Example: Our own Swedish right wing government proposing to raise national debt in order to lower taxes. Sounds like a plan for the future. This is a perfect example of a left entrenched population. You have lived so long in such a left position that you view your position as moderate. The reality is that both left and right positions are not particularly effective and a moderate position is best but in most of Europe, and increasingly the US, a moderate position is seen as right wing.
Oh I won't pretend to be a moderate. I'm totally left.
What I'm saying is that Europe is going more and more towards the right wing with no tendency to stop. We've seen several catastrophies in its wake.
For instance borrowing to lower taxes, public hospitals being sold to private investors where patients are simply left to die and where there are tournaments being held on who can feed the patients the least, and spend the least amount of time on each elderly patient waiting to die. We see public institutions sold cheaply and then being dismantled for a net gain to the investor. We see tax money intended for health care and education going to the stock markets.
What we see is a degenerate version of the society we grew up in, where the interest in maximum gain has far surpassed the care for our fellow man.
The rise of nationalism and intolerance is in my opinion a natural follow up to this development.
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On November 13 2012 06:23 saintforsale wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 06:09 Grimmyman123 wrote:
For referrence, if you didn't know, Germany's military budget is EQUAL to Austria, Switzerland, Czech, Belguin, Poland, Finland, Sweden, Norway, and the Netherlands military budgets COMBINED. Take a look at that list of countries and their proximity to Germany. Scary isn't it?
If you didn´t know, combine the population or area of these countries and Germany is bigger.For obvious reasons you forgot poland (larger per capita), sweden((larger per capita) Poland (larger per capita) and France (larger per capita). Compared to the position of influence Germany commands in the world the military is Laughable. That is, and never was the power of Germany it was industry and education.
Germany: 357k km^2
Sweden: 449k
Norway: 385k
Finland: 338k
Poland: 312k
Netherlands: 41k
Austria: 84k
Belgium: 31k
Czech: 79k
Switzerland: 41k
How can anyone with even the most basic education believe Germany is larger than all these countries?
On November 14 2012 11:10 Euronyme wrote:
Many a right wing European government is working hard to sell out whatever national treasure and safety there's left. Europe's moving quickly from the tax funded left to the bankrupt right.
Edit. Example: Our own Swedish right wing government proposing to raise national debt in order to lower taxes. Sounds like a plan for the future.
What right wing government?
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warning: wall of text incoming
the irony of this thread is that the political landscape in Germany is actually moving to the left.
The social democratic party has had huge losses to the radical left, which is represented in national parliament with 10% actually voting for them (numbers that arent imaginary because of some weird interpretation in an insignificant, defective, populistic study).
Its a mix of communists, ex-GDR politicians and people who are disappointed in the traditional parties.
Even the conservative party (christian-democratic union) of Angela Merkel moved so far left that its almost not distinguishable from the social democratic party. The only difference is that they can win votes because they dont back down in the crisis to "Euro Bonds" which would basically mean that we (Germany) finance the debt for countries that have so much debt and such a bad economic situation because of misgovernment that the market doesnt trust them anymore. They basically reached the end of the spiral of making more and more debt so it doesnt work anymore and they are basically bancrupt. And Germany wont step in to finance that vicious circle. Well as long as Merkel gets re-elected next year, but i dont think we're able to finance all the debt because we have a lot of debt too. At least the markets have faith in our economy so we dont drown in interest like the rest of Europe. Eurobonds would turn that upside down and Germany gets punished for actually having a competitive economy.
I know its against the law of good governance that you should cut budgets in the crisis because you are meant to act counter-cyclical: Save money when the economy is good and spend money when the economy is bad so you have less extremes. But when your social state is so blown up that you even make debt when the economy is good you cant save up money and now you have a huge problem. No economy and no money. They need radical reforms and Germany doesnt have the democratical legitimation to enforce them. We want to help but we arent allowed to and financing noncompetitive economies is simply wasting money and no solution. It doesnt help anybody if we all go bancrupt.
Basically we need the United States of Europe to solve this kind of problems. Because the European Union isnt fit for those kind of problems. The discussion in Germany is more to move national responsibilities to european institutions. Since the EU is a giant mess, its not that easy. Note how this trend is anti-nationalistic.
So you might think this is totally off topic? I just want to show you what the real issues are in Germany. We dont even have a right wing populist party represented in parliament like in Netherlands (Geert Wilders) or in France (Le Pen). The right political spectrum in Germany is basically a giant void. There are discussions if this might be a problem because a radical party could step in and fill this void, but there is no sign for it. No nationalist, no nazis, not even patriots are represented in german parliament. Because there is no such thing as a german patriot nowadays. If you're proud of your country you are a nazi so nobody dares to say they are proud of their country. Thats the truth and its really sad and it sickens me when people still blame our generation for stuff that happened over 60 years ago. We're the least patriotic country in the world. And it still hurts me everytime people call germans nazis and are suspicious that we might strive for world domination. Some people are still so scared. Maybe its because people tried to make us an agragrian state with the treaty of Versailles (which actually backfired by helping Hitlers strive for power), they tried to split us up and still we are the strongest economy in Europe. That might be scary. Because no matter what you do to Germany it comes back.
The world is rather demanding Germany to help (financially and militarywise) than being scared. But we dont follow blindly anymore to anyone. Even if we get a lot of hate for it and get accused as nazis for not following blindly. We dont go to Iraq. We dont go to Lybia. We neither support Israel's settlement policy nor a preemptive first strike. We are critically thinking. Some people get butthurt over that, because they assume we arent allowed to voice an opinion... since you know.. we are all nazis.
I've been observing this thread for a while now and im quite suprised that it survived for so long because it has no basis for discussion and misses totally the problems of our time. You could say its plain ridiculous. But its always fun not to discuss the real problems and talk about some bullshit instead.
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This is probably one of the most poorly worded titles in TL history. Honestly these elements exist in every society and are pretty much impossible to purge. I don't think that Germany is in danger of being taken over you just have to be on guard against the people.
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EPT
