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So as a European, I've been reading this site for a few months, and often, when I'm reading threads about politics or education, terms like ¨middle school¨, ¨high school¨, ¨colege¨ pop up. However, I literally have no idea what these mean.
So what I'm asking is for some kind of timeline for the schools. Additionally, if you're from a country where things are done differently, you can post the timeline too! I'm from Holland, so I'll give an example.
EDIT: here's an image explaining it a lot better than i did, but with less context, so, tl;dr: + Show Spoiler + (taken from EUR Psychology lecture slides)
Age:
1 to 3 : No real school, there's this thing called crèche but that's mostly for ¨safekeeping¨ the kids.
4 to 12: Basisschool, which I guess is kind of comparable to elementary school, although I'm not sure. When you're 4, you enter groep 1 (group 1), next year, you enter groep 2, and so on and so forth until you reach age 12. Additionally if you do really badly, you may have to do one year over, and if you do really well, you may get the option to skip 1 or 2 years. Which is what I personally did, when I was in groep 6, I had it really easy, so I did some tests and was allowed to skip groep 7 and go directly to 8, which is the last year of basisschool. Here's where it gets complicated. In groep 8 (at age 12 or, in my case, 11) everybody is tested, and according to your score, you're sent to either: _________________________________________________________________________
EDIT: here's and image showing the actual amount of people in each category:+ Show Spoiler +
vmbo (age 12-16): this is for the people that fall in the bottom 60% for the scores. You only get 4 years of what I guess would be called high school. After that (at age 16) you can enter your professional career or do some follow-up studies (called mbo). Those that do well during their vmbo get the option to go up to havo.
havo (age 12-17): this is for the 20~30 percent after the vmbo, they get 5 years of ¨high school¨ education, wherein they see different things than the children doing vmbo. Once they're done, hey can choose to do an HBO. Additionally if you do well, you're allowed to go to vwo.
vwo and gymnasium (age 12-18): This is for the top 10~15 percent. You get 6 years of ¨high school¨, after which you can go to university. Notice I also named gymnasium, that's the highest level of education, for the top 5 percent. It's basically the same as vwo except you're forced to learn latin and greek for 6 (or in some schools 3) years. _________________________________________________________________________
Once you're done with vmbo: you get your MBO, if you do well, you can go on with an HBO, and if you do well there, you can even go to university. But this is exceedingly rare and takes extremely long. Most people just stop after their MBO and get a job. (I think this is at age 18) Examples are: Vendor, teacher at the basisschool.
Once you're done with havo: You can do a HBO, and, same as vmbo, you can, if you do well go to uni after. If you do an HBO, examples of jobs are: Nurse, some kinds of programming and engineering.
Once you're done with vwo: Either you go to uni or you do a HBO, the vast majority of people go to university. which takes anywhere from 5 to 15 years depending on what studies you do, and if you go for a masters degree, or even a PhD. Jobs are: basically anything you want, ranging from surgeon to rocket scientist to whatever else you can imagine. _________________________________________________________________________
I hope this clarifies the dutch education system a little bit, and I would be thankful if you would be so nice as to return the favor, so that we can educate each other and all get a little wiser in the process.
Have a nice day!
ps. I may have made mistakes, feel free to correct me if you feel I am wrong, don't be afraid to ask questions. Also, most importantly, DO NOT turn this thread into a political debate, circlejerk, or collective hammering onto the American education system. Don't judge what you don't know.
pps. Note that no level is mandatory, if you do REALLY well at the tests when you're 12 years old, you're ALLOWED to go to vwo, but you can also go to havo or vmbo if you want.
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Here in Denmark, once we reach age ~6 we start in elementary school. (Grade 0 to 9). After ninth grade(Normally 16 years of age) the student is able to decide whether he or she wants to also complete tenth grade, or if he or she wants to start at a gymnasium, become a carpenter, basically you can choose your career direction here. If you choose tenth grade, you basically unlock the same possibilities, you just had 1 extra year of public school.
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Thank you very much!
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In Australia, you have 6 years of primary school followed by 4-6 years high school after which you can either go to university or get a trade. Almost everyone goes for the full 6 years of high school because most employers prefer this even for trades. In the final two years, you can choose what subjects to study and whether you want to work towards university entrance exams of whether you would prefer to start to learn a trade and participate in work experience programs. You generally finish high school when you're 18 if you complete the full 12 years.
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So you start primary school at age 6? Interesting, I know that in Scandinavia they start out late too. This is kinda weird because, in France for example, some children go to primary as early as 3 years old.
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So what is roughly the percentage of people getting a bachelor degree or higher?
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On November 10 2012 20:34 Bluedraqy wrote: Here in Denmark, once we reach age ~6 we start in elementary school. (Grade 0 to 9). After ninth grade(Normally 16 years of age) the student is able to decide whether he or she wants to also complete tenth grade, or if he or she wants to start at a gymnasium, become a carpenter, basically you can choose your career direction here. If you choose tenth grade, you basically unlock the same possibilities, you just had 1 extra year of public school.
Would like to add that the Faroe Island's model is identical.
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I am curios is the U.S the only country to call first year kindergarten?
Edit:
Elemtrary school - K through 6th grade ( 7 years )
Middle school - 2 years
High school - 4 years
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On November 10 2012 21:32 BGrael wrote: So what is roughly the percentage of people getting a bachelor degree or higher?
After some googling, I found that the answer to this is harder to find than i previously thought ^^
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On November 10 2012 22:03 Martyrc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 21:32 BGrael wrote: So what is roughly the percentage of people getting a bachelor degree or higher? After some googling, I found that the answer to this is harder to find than i previously thought ^^ Around 30%ish have a HBO degree or higher, I'll try to dig up some cbs stats. I'm fairly sure a professional bachelor degree is equal to an HBO degree here, but you don't have to enter uni for getting that. Attending a hogeschool is enough. I might be wrong though.
@ Thuracine, we call it groep (or group) 1-2. It's also possible but not mandatory to attend a school before that. That school is called the peuterschool. They don't really learn anything there asides socializing with other kids.
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Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
In USA, it goes like this:
age 1-3: nothing age 4: Preschool (not mandatory), or you can test into early kindergarten age 5: Kindergarten (not always mandatory, depends on state legislation) age 6-11: 1st grade - 6 grade, aka elementary school age 12-13: 7th grade - 8th grade, aka middle school age 14-17: 9th grade - 12th grade, aka high school
Kids are tested every three years. If they do well or poorly, then they can skip a grade or be held back, depending on teacher evaluation. Once you turn 16, however, you can elect to not finish high school and drop out of the school system entirely. (a surprisingly high number do this, something like 8% of all high school students)
After high school, about 60% of kids join the general workforce doing whatever. The other 40% go on to college (university) where they will spend the next four years getting their bachelors degree in whatever subject they want. After that, they can continue their education in graduate school (another 4 years), and then even further for their doctorate (another 4 years).
College is open for everyone as long as you have the money to pay tuition. Grad school and beyond is rather selective.
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What I did in Canada was..
1 - 3 Nothing 4 Junior Kindergarten 5 Senior Kindergarten 6 Elementary School 14 High School 18 University
Some places have middle school starting in grade 6 of elementary school I think, but I didn't do that.
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On November 10 2012 22:06 Bojas wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 22:03 Martyrc wrote:On November 10 2012 21:32 BGrael wrote: So what is roughly the percentage of people getting a bachelor degree or higher? After some googling, I found that the answer to this is harder to find than i previously thought ^^ Around 30%ish have a HBO degree or higher, I'll try to dig up some cbs stats. I'm fairly sure a professional bachelor degree is equal to an HBO degree here, but you don't have to enter uni for getting that. Attending a hogeschool is enough. I might be wrong though. @ Thuracine, we call it groep (or group) 1-2. It's also possible but not mandatory to attend a school before that. That school is called the peuterschool. They don't really learn anything there asides socializing with other kids.
Some MBO4 degree's are equall to bachelor too.
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On November 10 2012 22:13 Dienosore wrote: In USA, it goes like this:
age 1-3: nothing age 4: Preschool (not mandatory), or you can test into early kindergarten age 5: Kindergarten (not always mandatory, depends on state legislation) age 6-11: 1st grade - 6 grade, aka elementary school age 12-13: 7th grade - 8th grade, aka middle school age 14-17: 9th grade - 12th grade, aka high school
Kids are tested every three years. If they do well or poorly, then they can skip a grade or be held back, depending on teacher evaluation. Once you turn 16, however, you can elect to not finish high school and drop out of the school system entirely. (a surprisingly high number do this, something like 8% of all high school students)
After high school, about 60% of kids join the general workforce doing whatever. The other 40% go on to college (university) where they will spend the next four years getting their bachelors degree in whatever subject they want. After that, they can continue their education in graduate school (another 4 years), and then even further for their masters degree (another 4 years), and then EVEN FURTHER for their doctorate (another 4 years).
College is open for everyone as long as you have the money to pay tuition. Grad school and beyond is rather selective.
wait? Grad school + masters = 8 years?
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In the UK we have a system that goes like this:
from 3 or 4 (I cant remember) you go to nursery
At age 5 you begin primary school (Another name for elementary school) This is for 6 years then you go to secondary school
At secondary school you go for 6 years where you get your GCSE's but they are being replaced by something similar
After secondary school you can go to 6th form college or a career 6th form is where you get AS-levels which and A-levels. The AS-level is in the first year and the A-level is in the second
College is for more practical skills such as metal work and even more specialised such as plumbing which you can get a Btech in.
After that you can go to university. Typically only people with A-levels go to university because the Btech is seen as a "less academic" qualification. University in the UK cost around £9,000 a year (11,255 euro and $14,312). This makes it a very hard choice whether to go to university because it will put you in debt for a noticeable portion of your life.
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Sweden
1-2/3 Nothing special 2/3-5 Kindergarten 6 Preschool 7-13 Grade 1-6 13-15 Grade 7-9
All that is mandatory, when you finished Högstadiet (middle school I guess?) you have to choice to go on and study at Gymnasiet (High School)
16-18/19 Gymnasiet
At Gymnasiet you can basically study anything, but the most beneficial orientation is Science where you study more math/chemistry/physics than Social Science students.
Might be some incorrect things in what I just wrote, so if any fellow Swede disagrees, please chip in with the correct answers^_^
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On November 10 2012 22:13 Dienosore wrote: In USA, it goes like this:
age 1-3: nothing age 4: Preschool (not mandatory), or you can test into early kindergarten age 5: Kindergarten (not always mandatory, depends on state legislation) age 6-11: 1st grade - 6 grade, aka elementary school age 12-13: 7th grade - 8th grade, aka middle school age 14-17: 9th grade - 12th grade, aka high school
Kids are tested every three years. If they do well or poorly, then they can skip a grade or be held back, depending on teacher evaluation. Once you turn 16, however, you can elect to not finish high school and drop out of the school system entirely. (a surprisingly high number do this, something like 8% of all high school students)
After high school, about 60% of kids join the general workforce doing whatever. The other 40% go on to college (university) where they will spend the next four years getting their bachelors degree in whatever subject they want. After that, they can continue their education in graduate school (another 4 years), and then even further for their masters degree (another 4 years), and then EVEN FURTHER for their doctorate (another 4 years).
College is open for everyone as long as you have the money to pay tuition. Grad school and beyond is rather selective.
So if I understand this right, your average USA PhD finishes at age 34?
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Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
On November 10 2012 22:21 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 22:13 Dienosore wrote: In USA, it goes like this:
age 1-3: nothing age 4: Preschool (not mandatory), or you can test into early kindergarten age 5: Kindergarten (not always mandatory, depends on state legislation) age 6-11: 1st grade - 6 grade, aka elementary school age 12-13: 7th grade - 8th grade, aka middle school age 14-17: 9th grade - 12th grade, aka high school
Kids are tested every three years. If they do well or poorly, then they can skip a grade or be held back, depending on teacher evaluation. Once you turn 16, however, you can elect to not finish high school and drop out of the school system entirely. (a surprisingly high number do this, something like 8% of all high school students)
After high school, about 60% of kids join the general workforce doing whatever. The other 40% go on to college (university) where they will spend the next four years getting their bachelors degree in whatever subject they want. After that, they can continue their education in graduate school (another 4 years), and then even further for their masters degree (another 4 years), and then EVEN FURTHER for their doctorate (another 4 years).
College is open for everyone as long as you have the money to pay tuition. Grad school and beyond is rather selective. wait? Grad school + masters = 8 years?
yeah, higher education takes foreverrrr
I've got a friend chasing his doctorate now. He hasn't wasted any time between levels, and is 26 with still a few more years left
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Sweden: correct me if I'm wrong, fellow Swedes.
(Numbers indicate the age of most children in that grade at the end of the year. In same cases, people can start a grade one year early or remain one year extra. It's exception more than rule though.)
Years 0-6: Basically daycare/kindergarten/pre-school/whatever. It's not school, you're not forced to go there, and you're not forced to learn stuff like reading, although most people do go there and most kindergartens teach the children reading. Most parents keep their children at home until around their first birthday or something like that though.
Year 6: Some elementary schools have the option for children to start at the age of six in what they call pre-school class, or 'year zero'. I think this is increasingly becoming more common.
Years 7-15: Obligatory (by the so called 'school law') elementary school. Nine years. Most often divided into three parts: Lågstadium (1-3), mellanstadium (4-6) and högstadium (7-9). Some schools only have 1-6 (so that you have to change school for the last three), and some schools do stuff like putting 6-9 together (under the same administration) and so on, but I guess that's not important.
Now, you get to choose! There are different forms of higher education, but the most common form is called gymnasium and is three years. Most people do this right after elementary school, because you're not very likely to get a job or succed at anything at all if you don't.
Years 16-18: Gymnasium: You have to choose (apply for) school, and they pick students according to grades. There are different programmes (like natural sciences, building industry and so on). Some estethical educations also have tests where you have to draw or perform a piece of music to enter. All of the programmes have a basic plan that they must follow. (Every programme have their share of Swedish, Math and so on.)
Many people consider themselves done here, and try travelling and applying for jobs.
Other people (also quite many) apply for university studies (we call it högskola, literally "high school"). There's no restrictions on how old you should be when applying and they accept people according (most often) to (gymnasium) grades. This kind of higher education is free and if you apply for it, you can get a small sum every month from, yeah, basically from the government. Most programmes are supposed to be about three or five years (or longer), although you can finish it faster or slower if you want to. Many universities follow the 3 years bachelor's + 2 years master's model. There are also 'Yrkeshögskola' (profession university) that aren't real universities and give you an education in carpenting or whatever.
One thing that is subject of much debate in Sweden is whether private companies should be allowed to own, run and manage schools or not. At the moment, we have a right-wing government and companies are allowed to do that.
I myself went to kindergarten, and then to public school for nine years and then to the NV (natural sciences) programme for three years. I did not take a year of for travel and work and I am currently studying physics at university level.
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Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
On November 10 2012 22:25 Martyrc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 22:13 Dienosore wrote: In USA, it goes like this:
age 1-3: nothing age 4: Preschool (not mandatory), or you can test into early kindergarten age 5: Kindergarten (not always mandatory, depends on state legislation) age 6-11: 1st grade - 6 grade, aka elementary school age 12-13: 7th grade - 8th grade, aka middle school age 14-17: 9th grade - 12th grade, aka high school
Kids are tested every three years. If they do well or poorly, then they can skip a grade or be held back, depending on teacher evaluation. Once you turn 16, however, you can elect to not finish high school and drop out of the school system entirely. (a surprisingly high number do this, something like 8% of all high school students)
After high school, about 60% of kids join the general workforce doing whatever. The other 40% go on to college (university) where they will spend the next four years getting their bachelors degree in whatever subject they want. After that, they can continue their education in graduate school (another 4 years), and then even further for their masters degree (another 4 years), and then EVEN FURTHER for their doctorate (another 4 years).
College is open for everyone as long as you have the money to pay tuition. Grad school and beyond is rather selective. So if I understand this right, your average USA PhD finishes at age 34?
There seem to be two groups in graduate school based on what I have observed. The nuts who work straight through to get the PhD, and those who come back to get a PhD after working for a few years. Most in the first group are between 26-30 years old. The older group consists primarily of people in their 30's and up to the early 40's.
It's hard to say specifically, because you can always take bigger course loads to finish earlier, or you can slack off and take classes part time while you work or something.
@neptunusfisk and Sweden: Must be nice getting free higher education from the government
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On November 10 2012 22:13 Dienosore wrote: In USA, it goes like this:
age 1-3: nothing age 4: Preschool (not mandatory), or you can test into early kindergarten age 5: Kindergarten (not always mandatory, depends on state legislation) age 6-11: 1st grade - 6 grade, aka elementary school age 12-13: 7th grade - 8th grade, aka middle school age 14-17: 9th grade - 12th grade, aka high school
Kids are tested every three years. If they do well or poorly, then they can skip a grade or be held back, depending on teacher evaluation. Once you turn 16, however, you can elect to not finish high school and drop out of the school system entirely. (a surprisingly high number do this, something like 8% of all high school students)
After high school, about 60% of kids join the general workforce doing whatever. The other 40% go on to college (university) where they will spend the next four years getting their bachelors degree in whatever subject they want. After that, they can continue their education in graduate school (another 4 years), and then even further for their masters degree (another 4 years), and then EVEN FURTHER for their doctorate (another 4 years).
College is open for everyone as long as you have the money to pay tuition. Grad school and beyond is rather selective.
Wait what. To get your PhD it takes 16 years after you joined college? And similairly, 12 years to get your masters?
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In Belgium, it goes like this:
1-3 year old: crèche (optional, usually for parents who both work and have nobody to keep their child) 3: 1ère maternelle (in maternelle you usually don't really work, you play games and learn a bit, develop your curiosity etc.) 4: 2ème maternelle 5: 3ème maternelle
6 year old: 1ère primaire (in primaire you really start the real thing, counting, writing, reading correctly) 7: 2ème primaire 8: 3ème primaire 9: 4ème primaire 10: 5ème primaire 11: 6ème primaire
12 year old: 1ère secondaire (sometimes not in the same place as the primaires) 13: 2ème secondaire 14: 3ème secondaire 15: 4ème secondaire 16: 5ème secondaire 17: 6ème secondaire (also called rheto)
18 year old: Université or Haute école. Université is 5 (rarely 4) years of study or more while the Hautes écoles are mostly 3 years of study (considered not as good as Université)
Your path of study might change if you fail 2 times in a row in secondaire general, you can drop to technique or professionnel which directly teach you one job. You can also fail in primaire but it's quite rare. If you are better than your class, you can also skip classes but it's not very oftenly done.
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On November 10 2012 22:01 thuracine wrote: I am curios is the U.S the only country to call first year kindergarten?
Edit:
Elemtrary school - K through 6th grade ( 7 years )
Middle school - 2 years
High school - 4 years
Nope. I know that in Malaysia and Singapore there is kindergarten for ages 5 to 6. Its preschool, and is considered an optional level of schooling. Some people choose to start Primary school immediately without going to kindergarten.
Malaysia: Kindergarten - 1 or 2 years
Primary School - 6 years
Secondary/High School - 5 years
Pre-university (1.5 years) OR Matriculation (1 year)
University
Singapore: Kindergarten - 1 or 2 years
Primary School - 6 years
Secondary school - 4 years
Junior College or Polytechnic (Pre-U)
University
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On November 10 2012 22:28 Dienosore wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 22:21 Hider wrote:On November 10 2012 22:13 Dienosore wrote: In USA, it goes like this:
age 1-3: nothing age 4: Preschool (not mandatory), or you can test into early kindergarten age 5: Kindergarten (not always mandatory, depends on state legislation) age 6-11: 1st grade - 6 grade, aka elementary school age 12-13: 7th grade - 8th grade, aka middle school age 14-17: 9th grade - 12th grade, aka high school
Kids are tested every three years. If they do well or poorly, then they can skip a grade or be held back, depending on teacher evaluation. Once you turn 16, however, you can elect to not finish high school and drop out of the school system entirely. (a surprisingly high number do this, something like 8% of all high school students)
After high school, about 60% of kids join the general workforce doing whatever. The other 40% go on to college (university) where they will spend the next four years getting their bachelors degree in whatever subject they want. After that, they can continue their education in graduate school (another 4 years), and then even further for their masters degree (another 4 years), and then EVEN FURTHER for their doctorate (another 4 years).
College is open for everyone as long as you have the money to pay tuition. Grad school and beyond is rather selective. wait? Grad school + masters = 8 years? yeah, higher education takes foreverrrr I've got a friend chasing his doctorate now. He hasn't wasted any time between levels, and is 26 with still a few more years left
seems weird. At grad school I would think you get an masters degree. At least this is what I read around the internet. You have any sources?
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On November 10 2012 22:36 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 22:28 Dienosore wrote:On November 10 2012 22:21 Hider wrote:On November 10 2012 22:13 Dienosore wrote: In USA, it goes like this:
age 1-3: nothing age 4: Preschool (not mandatory), or you can test into early kindergarten age 5: Kindergarten (not always mandatory, depends on state legislation) age 6-11: 1st grade - 6 grade, aka elementary school age 12-13: 7th grade - 8th grade, aka middle school age 14-17: 9th grade - 12th grade, aka high school
Kids are tested every three years. If they do well or poorly, then they can skip a grade or be held back, depending on teacher evaluation. Once you turn 16, however, you can elect to not finish high school and drop out of the school system entirely. (a surprisingly high number do this, something like 8% of all high school students)
After high school, about 60% of kids join the general workforce doing whatever. The other 40% go on to college (university) where they will spend the next four years getting their bachelors degree in whatever subject they want. After that, they can continue their education in graduate school (another 4 years), and then even further for their masters degree (another 4 years), and then EVEN FURTHER for their doctorate (another 4 years).
College is open for everyone as long as you have the money to pay tuition. Grad school and beyond is rather selective. wait? Grad school + masters = 8 years? yeah, higher education takes foreverrrr I've got a friend chasing his doctorate now. He hasn't wasted any time between levels, and is 26 with still a few more years left seems weird. At grad school I would think you get an masters degree. At least this is what I read around the internet. You have any sources?
Exactly, it feels as if he counted 4 years too many. Still, 8 years for your masters is a long time compared to the Netherlands. Where you can usually do it in 5 if I'm not mistaken.
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On November 10 2012 22:25 Martyrc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 22:13 Dienosore wrote: In USA, it goes like this:
age 1-3: nothing age 4: Preschool (not mandatory), or you can test into early kindergarten age 5: Kindergarten (not always mandatory, depends on state legislation) age 6-11: 1st grade - 6 grade, aka elementary school age 12-13: 7th grade - 8th grade, aka middle school age 14-17: 9th grade - 12th grade, aka high school
Kids are tested every three years. If they do well or poorly, then they can skip a grade or be held back, depending on teacher evaluation. Once you turn 16, however, you can elect to not finish high school and drop out of the school system entirely. (a surprisingly high number do this, something like 8% of all high school students)
After high school, about 60% of kids join the general workforce doing whatever. The other 40% go on to college (university) where they will spend the next four years getting their bachelors degree in whatever subject they want. After that, they can continue their education in graduate school (another 4 years), and then even further for their masters degree (another 4 years), and then EVEN FURTHER for their doctorate (another 4 years).
College is open for everyone as long as you have the money to pay tuition. Grad school and beyond is rather selective. So if I understand this right, your average USA PhD finishes at age 34?
Mmmm, maybe... I don't know about the average, but I know for sure all Masters programs don't take 4 years. At the University of Arizona, I can get my Bachelors in Accounting in 4 years, then my Masters after 1 more year. No idea how long the PhD would take though.
On November 10 2012 22:36 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 22:28 Dienosore wrote:On November 10 2012 22:21 Hider wrote:On November 10 2012 22:13 Dienosore wrote: In USA, it goes like this:
age 1-3: nothing age 4: Preschool (not mandatory), or you can test into early kindergarten age 5: Kindergarten (not always mandatory, depends on state legislation) age 6-11: 1st grade - 6 grade, aka elementary school age 12-13: 7th grade - 8th grade, aka middle school age 14-17: 9th grade - 12th grade, aka high school
Kids are tested every three years. If they do well or poorly, then they can skip a grade or be held back, depending on teacher evaluation. Once you turn 16, however, you can elect to not finish high school and drop out of the school system entirely. (a surprisingly high number do this, something like 8% of all high school students)
After high school, about 60% of kids join the general workforce doing whatever. The other 40% go on to college (university) where they will spend the next four years getting their bachelors degree in whatever subject they want. After that, they can continue their education in graduate school (another 4 years), and then even further for their masters degree (another 4 years), and then EVEN FURTHER for their doctorate (another 4 years).
College is open for everyone as long as you have the money to pay tuition. Grad school and beyond is rather selective. wait? Grad school + masters = 8 years? yeah, higher education takes foreverrrr I've got a friend chasing his doctorate now. He hasn't wasted any time between levels, and is 26 with still a few more years left seems weird. At grad school I would think you get an masters degree. At least this is what I read around the internet. You have any sources?
Yeah looks like you're right. Grad school is for your Masters, he just messed up a little I think.
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On November 10 2012 22:37 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 22:36 Hider wrote:On November 10 2012 22:28 Dienosore wrote:On November 10 2012 22:21 Hider wrote:On November 10 2012 22:13 Dienosore wrote: In USA, it goes like this:
age 1-3: nothing age 4: Preschool (not mandatory), or you can test into early kindergarten age 5: Kindergarten (not always mandatory, depends on state legislation) age 6-11: 1st grade - 6 grade, aka elementary school age 12-13: 7th grade - 8th grade, aka middle school age 14-17: 9th grade - 12th grade, aka high school
Kids are tested every three years. If they do well or poorly, then they can skip a grade or be held back, depending on teacher evaluation. Once you turn 16, however, you can elect to not finish high school and drop out of the school system entirely. (a surprisingly high number do this, something like 8% of all high school students)
After high school, about 60% of kids join the general workforce doing whatever. The other 40% go on to college (university) where they will spend the next four years getting their bachelors degree in whatever subject they want. After that, they can continue their education in graduate school (another 4 years), and then even further for their masters degree (another 4 years), and then EVEN FURTHER for their doctorate (another 4 years).
College is open for everyone as long as you have the money to pay tuition. Grad school and beyond is rather selective. wait? Grad school + masters = 8 years? yeah, higher education takes foreverrrr I've got a friend chasing his doctorate now. He hasn't wasted any time between levels, and is 26 with still a few more years left seems weird. At grad school I would think you get an masters degree. At least this is what I read around the internet. You have any sources? Exactly, it feels as if he counted 4 years too many. Still, 8 years for your masters is a long time compared to the Netherlands. Where you can usually do it in 5 if I'm not mistaken.
edit:nvm.
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Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
On November 10 2012 22:33 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 22:13 Dienosore wrote: In USA, it goes like this:
age 1-3: nothing age 4: Preschool (not mandatory), or you can test into early kindergarten age 5: Kindergarten (not always mandatory, depends on state legislation) age 6-11: 1st grade - 6 grade, aka elementary school age 12-13: 7th grade - 8th grade, aka middle school age 14-17: 9th grade - 12th grade, aka high school
Kids are tested every three years. If they do well or poorly, then they can skip a grade or be held back, depending on teacher evaluation. Once you turn 16, however, you can elect to not finish high school and drop out of the school system entirely. (a surprisingly high number do this, something like 8% of all high school students)
After high school, about 60% of kids join the general workforce doing whatever. The other 40% go on to college (university) where they will spend the next four years getting their bachelors degree in whatever subject they want. After that, they can continue their education in graduate school (another 4 years), and then even further for their masters degree (another 4 years), and then EVEN FURTHER for their doctorate (another 4 years).
College is open for everyone as long as you have the money to pay tuition. Grad school and beyond is rather selective. Wait what. To get your PhD it takes 16 years after you joined college? And similairly, 12 years to get your masters?
It depends ultimately on self motivation and specific department requirements, (for example, english or philosophy not as strenuous as math or science) but yeah, you got it right. A master's degree is nothing to sneeze at and often takes people a good chunk of their lifetime to actually finish it.
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On November 10 2012 22:41 Dienosore wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 22:33 Recognizable wrote:On November 10 2012 22:13 Dienosore wrote: In USA, it goes like this:
age 1-3: nothing age 4: Preschool (not mandatory), or you can test into early kindergarten age 5: Kindergarten (not always mandatory, depends on state legislation) age 6-11: 1st grade - 6 grade, aka elementary school age 12-13: 7th grade - 8th grade, aka middle school age 14-17: 9th grade - 12th grade, aka high school
Kids are tested every three years. If they do well or poorly, then they can skip a grade or be held back, depending on teacher evaluation. Once you turn 16, however, you can elect to not finish high school and drop out of the school system entirely. (a surprisingly high number do this, something like 8% of all high school students)
After high school, about 60% of kids join the general workforce doing whatever. The other 40% go on to college (university) where they will spend the next four years getting their bachelors degree in whatever subject they want. After that, they can continue their education in graduate school (another 4 years), and then even further for their masters degree (another 4 years), and then EVEN FURTHER for their doctorate (another 4 years).
College is open for everyone as long as you have the money to pay tuition. Grad school and beyond is rather selective. Wait what. To get your PhD it takes 16 years after you joined college? And similairly, 12 years to get your masters? It depends ultimately on self motivation and specific department requirements, (for example, english or philosophy not as strenuous as math or science) but yeah, you got it right. A master's degree is nothing to sneeze at and often takes people a good chunk of their lifetime to actually finish it.
What?.... A Bachelor's is three years in Sweden, and (most) Master's 5... PhD is another thing though..
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On November 10 2012 21:25 Martyrc wrote: So you start primary school at age 6? Interesting, I know that in Scandinavia they start out late too. This is kinda weird because, in France for example, some children go to primary as early as 3 years old.
I don't know about him, but at least, in my area, we actually start at kindergarten, at 4, then move to what we call Prep, at 5, then we start with letter grades. Primary school education is from Prep to Grade 6, High School education is from Year 7 to Year 12, With the choice to leave starting roughly around Year 10 (normally, however, you only really leave if you get a trade apprenticeship). Then you can move on to University.
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
Bachelor degree (=undergraduate; also HBO) is often 3 years in Holland, where a master (=graduate) takes 1 or 2 extra years depending on the topic and type of master (e.g., research master usually takes a year extra). PhD (=graduate/promovendus/aio) generally takes 4 years after that, although it can take a year less in the case of a research master (some funds require a student who has done a research master, think this is the case for NWO these days) and/or in special cases (e.g., mine is externally funded, so it takes 3 years). As said, tract differs in some cases, such as medicine.
This is basically what you tried to explain in the OP (taken from EUR Psychology lecture slides): + Show Spoiler +
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Quote from wikipedia
"Graduate study, conducted after obtaining an initial degree and sometimes after several years of professional work, leads to a more advanced degree such as a master's degree, which could be a Master of Arts (MA), Master of Science (MS), Master of Business Administration (MBA), or other less common master's degrees such as Master of Education (MEd), and Master of Fine Arts (MFA). Some students pursue a graduate degree that is in between a master's degree and a doctoral degree called a Specialist in Education (Ed.S.)."
Not sure how long an MBA is, but I guess it's 2 years.
So 4 years of undergrad studies + 2 years of grad (MBA) = 6 years.
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Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
Ah sorry guys, I thought I had deleted part of OP when I was editing, but it seems I accidentally left it in there. (Im very sleepy and hungover ) To clarify, you get your Masters Degree during grad school. Depending on the subject, it can take anywhere from 2 to 11 years for this (the higher end being medical and law)
After grad school, you can keep going for your PhD. This takes anywhere from 3-6 to complete.
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On November 10 2012 22:49 Dienosore wrote:Ah sorry guys, I thought I had deleted part of OP when I was editing, but it seems I accidentally left it in there. (Im very sleepy and hungover ) To clarify, you get your Masters Degree during grad school. Depending on the subject, it can take anywhere from 2 to 11 years for this (the higher end being medical and law)
so when i asked you how long masters + grad school took, you (for some reason) told me it was 8 years?
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Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
On November 10 2012 22:53 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 22:49 Dienosore wrote:Ah sorry guys, I thought I had deleted part of OP when I was editing, but it seems I accidentally left it in there. (Im very sleepy and hungover ) To clarify, you get your Masters Degree during grad school. Depending on the subject, it can take anywhere from 2 to 11 years for this (the higher end being medical and law) so when i asked you how long masters + grad school took, you (for some reason) told me it was 8 years?
Yeah I accidentally was separating gradschool/masters into two different things when in-fact they are the same.
It's hard to say exactly how long it will take because different fields require different things. Some areas of study take that long, others don't. Sry for the confusion.
I'm really tired, so I'm going back to bed. This article hopefully will help you understand: + Show Spoiler +The length of time it takes to get a graduate degree varies, depending on the program that you choose to enter. There are different types of college diploma and degree programs, and because each offers a different set of skills and knowledge, each has a varying length of time to complete. Additionally, there are different types of graduate level degrees that each take a different amount of time to complete.
The first level of graduate degree is a Master’s degree. Most Master’s programs take between two to three years to complete. You can get a master’s degree in nearly every subject that offers a bachelor’s degree. An MBA is a Master’s in Business Administration, and is a very common degree for people to complete. If you are attending school full time, most programs expect you to complete the program in two years, but if you are attending part time, it may take you up to four years to complete the program.
An MFA is a Master’s in Fine Arts. This degree is a terminal degree, which means that it does not prepare you to go on for a PhD. However, you can teach at a university with this level of degree. This degree focuses more on the application of the material studied rather than the theory. Most programs take between two to four years to complete. You can get an MFA in creative writing, filmmaking, theater and fine arts, and visual arts.
A Juris Doctor is another type of graduate degree. This is a law degree. This is considered a professional doctorate, because most people who get this degree work in a profession rather in the field of research and teaching. This program takes three years to complete. You can also get the L.L.M. (Masters of Laws). This program takes one year, but does require you to already have received a J.D. You can also earn a Doctor of Juridical Sciences. This degree is for those who want to teach people to become lawyers. This program takes about three years to complete, and you must have received the L.LM. Degree in order to apply. At the end of your course of study for a S.J.D., you will have completed four years of undergrad work, three years of law school, one year for your L.L.M. and an additional three years for your S.J.D., which adds up to eleven years of school.
The Doctor of Medicine (M.D.) degrees take about three years to complete. However, you are required to spend additional time in residency once you get this degree. If you want to teach people to become doctors, you will need to PhD in medicine, which takes an additional three to four years to complete. Often you can enroll in an MD/PhD dual degree, which takes seven to eight years to complete.
A PhD (Doctoral degree) can take anywhere from three to six years to complete. It depends on how long it takes you to complete your dissertation to determine the length of time that you are enrolled in the program. It generally takes longer for people to get PhDs in the arts versus those who get PhDs in the sciences. Additionally, some programs allow you to skip your Master’s degree and apply directly to the PhD program. These programs usually take five years, since you still have to cover the basic Master’s level classes. A PhD prepares you to teach at the college level and to do research for private companies.
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I'm from France but studied in Singapore since I was 10. It has a pretty complicated education system with lots of different routes and weird names.
Primary school - You study at a Primary School for 6 years from 7 to 12, then you take a Primary School Leaving Examination which determines what kind of secondary education "stream" you go to.
Secondary education streams - 1. Special - Generally reserved for the top percentiles. "Special" students study for the GCE "O" Level at the end of 4 years and take advanced mother tongues (Chinese, Malay, Tamil etc.). If you're REALLY good, you get to go to an "Integrated Program" school which lets you skip the "O" levels and directly take the "A" levels after 6 years.
2. Express - For those with reasonably good scores. Similar to "Special" but you only take mother tongue at a basic level.
3. Normal (Academic) and Normal (Technical) - The rest end up here. This route is slightly longer and you'll only take your "O" Levels at the end of 5 years. Those under Academic spend most of their time in the classroom while those under Technical will get more exposure towards various crafts and skills.
Post-secondary Education - So up to this point, everybody takes their "O" levels at the end of either 4 or 5 years and then decides what to do for the next 2 to 3 years.
1. Junior College - Generally, those with better "O" level results come here to prepare for university. At the end of 2 years, Junior College students take "A" levels which determines what university you go to, or if you get to go to one at all. Most of the "A" level subjects are purely academic.
2. Polytechnic - Others may choose to attend a polytechnic, which gets you a Diploma in whatever field you choose to study. A diploma is worth more on the job market because it gives you more "hands-on" experience compared to those studying for "A" levels. However, it is difficult to get into a good university unless you have an incredibly good GPA, so most Polytechnic students end up working after their studies without going to university. (E.g. Computer programmers, media specialists)
3. Institute of Technical Education (ITE) - Students who can't make it to the two options above usually attend ITE which, as the name suggests, offers various technical courses. (E.g. Cooks, plumbers)
Tertiary Education Finally, depending on which route you take, girls typically start university from age 18-20, and boys 20-22, because males are drafted into the army for 2 years, where they learn to shoot guns and drive tanks! xD
Singapore's pre-tertiary education system is widely regarded as one of the best in the world, if not THE best, but if you ask me, its more geared towards producing individuals who are only good at taking tests rather than those who are creative and innovative thinkers. Don't diss me Singaporeans, I came out of the JC system myself and you know its true. Also, it is overly stressful and competitive. Imagine thousands of smart Asians taking the one test that determines a large part of their future. Fu........
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On November 10 2012 22:48 Beyonder wrote:Bachelor degree (=undergraduate; also HBO) is often 3 years in Holland, where a master (=graduate) takes 1 or 2 extra years depending on the topic and type of master (e.g., research master usually takes a year extra). PhD (=graduate/promovendus/aio) generally takes 4 years after that, although it can take a year less in the case of a research master (some funds require a student who has done a research master, think this is the case for NWO these days) and/or in special cases (e.g., mine is externally funded, so it takes 3 years). As said, tract differs in some cases, such as medicine. This is basically what you tried to explain in the OP (taken from EUR Psychology lecture slides): + Show Spoiler +
That image is amazing, mind if I use it in the OP?
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
Thats fine if you mention its from EUR Psychology slides ^^
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Sure. Will do. You are amazing, now back on-topic.
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Can't wait for someone from Germany to post here since it's totally fucked up. Elementary school can either be 6-10 or 6-12. Then there are Realschule, Gesamtschule, Hauptschule, Oberschule, Gymnasium, Oberstufenzentrum and berufliches Gymnasium + Hochschule and Fachhochschule. Not everything is available everywhere, it depends in which region you live.
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On November 10 2012 22:01 thuracine wrote: I am curios is the U.S the only country to call first year kindergarten?
Edit:
Elemtrary school - K through 6th grade ( 7 years )
Middle school - 2 years
High school - 4 years
mmh no idea about the Kindergarten but in Germany school and Kindergarten are two very much different things. At least where I'm from Kindergarten is nothing like school and it's a physically different building, so you really differentiate between school and Kindergarten a lot in Germany.
That being said, in Germany it's: Anything before 6 years is somewhat up to you I guess. There's "Kita" which is an abbreviation for something along the lines of "Children day care center", which is for kids from 0 to 3 years I guess? Kita isn't mandatory. From something like 3 to 6 there's Kindergarten. No idea if it's mandatory.
Actual school starts when you're 6 years old: Grundschule (elemtary school). 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th grade, so 4 years in total. Once you're done with those 4 years you have to decide what kind of school you want to apply for. There's 3 different ones: Hauptschule (9 years in total), Realschule (10 years in total), Gymnasium (12 or 13 years in total). Those numbers include the years you're already done with. So your first year in the new school will be 5th grade.
Hauptschule is really basic education that generally speaking got a really bad reputation. Not so much the "level" of education but rather the environment you're going to get into. Realschule is supposed to be the "normal" one. Gymnasium is the one you want if you want to get higher education like a Bachelor at an university. Finishing Gymnasium has been mandatory to be allowed to apply for an university for the last bunch of years. Recently it's changed in 2 Bundesländer/states if I'm not mistaken but generally speaking you really need that if you want to go to an university. ///Oh and in 11th grade (that is if you're in Gymnasium) you've got to pick 2 subjects as "Leistungskurse" which is some kind of specialization. Your grades in those 2 subjects are rated doubled or three times in comparison to all the other ones and you'll have more hours / week on those 2 subjects. Naturally it's going to be more "stuff" you're going to cover and it's going to be more in dephth.///
You can change schools later on as well. So for example if you're in your 10th year of Realschule and you're done with school you can opt to go to Gymnasium and do the last 2 or 3 years over there as well if you want to. Though I've heard that's a bit tough because those 3 kind of schools have different standards.
Once you've got that done you're either going for a "Fachhochschule" or University. Fachhochschule is higher education with a more practical approach whereas university is for the more scientific approach. I'm obviously generalising a bit but it's already a wall of text.
///Edit:///
On November 10 2012 23:11 Lucumo wrote: Can't wait for someone from Germany to post here since it's totally fucked up. Elementary school can either be 6-10 or 6-12. Then there are Realschule, Gesamtschule, Hauptschule, Oberschule, Gymnasium, Oberstufenzentrum and berufliches Gymnasium + Hochschule and Fachhochschule. Not everything is available everywhere, it depends in which region you live. :p Gesamtschule [literal = overall school?] is a school that has all 3 different kinds of schools available within one school / building. That is Hauptschule, Realschule and Gymnasium. So it's basicly one big ass school. Oberschule or Oberstufe is mearly a term for those additional years you're doing in Gymnasium. As mentioned. Realschule is 10 years, Gymnasium is either 12 or 13. Oberschule / Oberstufe would be year 11, 12 and 13. No idea what Oberstufenzentrum is. Btw Mittelstufe would be the term for the years you're doing up until grade 10 if I'm not mistaken. I think it's something like "Unterstufe" = grade 5-7, "Mittelstufe" = grade 8 -10, "Oberstufe" = 11 - 12/13. But people rarely use those terms because once you're in grade 5 it's looked at as one big block of school because when you're in Gymnasium you won't stop after year 10... you're there to get the 12/13 grade done :p
Oh yeah and I forgot about berufliches Gymnasium. Basicly the same thing as University vs Fachhochschule. Berufliches Gymnasium is a more business orientated approach. You've got 12 years instead of 13 (?) but 1 year of work is mandatory to get your graduation.
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Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
A gymnasium is the physical building where we U.S.A.ers play basketball and have P.E. and shit like that, lol. It's strange for me to see people referring to it like they have in this thread.
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On November 10 2012 22:28 Dienosore wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 22:21 Hider wrote:On November 10 2012 22:13 Dienosore wrote: In USA, it goes like this:
age 1-3: nothing age 4: Preschool (not mandatory), or you can test into early kindergarten age 5: Kindergarten (not always mandatory, depends on state legislation) age 6-11: 1st grade - 6 grade, aka elementary school age 12-13: 7th grade - 8th grade, aka middle school age 14-17: 9th grade - 12th grade, aka high school
Kids are tested every three years. If they do well or poorly, then they can skip a grade or be held back, depending on teacher evaluation. Once you turn 16, however, you can elect to not finish high school and drop out of the school system entirely. (a surprisingly high number do this, something like 8% of all high school students)
After high school, about 60% of kids join the general workforce doing whatever. The other 40% go on to college (university) where they will spend the next four years getting their bachelors degree in whatever subject they want. After that, they can continue their education in graduate school (another 4 years), and then even further for their masters degree (another 4 years), and then EVEN FURTHER for their doctorate (another 4 years).
College is open for everyone as long as you have the money to pay tuition. Grad school and beyond is rather selective. wait? Grad school + masters = 8 years? yeah, higher education takes foreverrrr I've got a friend chasing his doctorate now. He hasn't wasted any time between levels, and is 26 with still a few more years left
It varies by degree.
I'm getting my masters in four semesters. Typical would be masters 2-4 years, doctorate 4-8, but it often goes on for a while due to various factors.
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On November 10 2012 21:12 GreenAndOrangeTurtle wrote: In Australia, you have 6 years of primary school followed by 4-6 years high school after which you can either go to university or get a trade. Almost everyone goes for the full 6 years of high school because most employers prefer this even for trades. In the final two years, you can choose what subjects to study and whether you want to work towards university entrance exams of whether you would prefer to start to learn a trade and participate in work experience programs. You generally finish high school when you're 18 if you complete the full 12 years.
On November 10 2012 21:25 Martyrc wrote: So you start primary school at age 6? Interesting, I know that in Scandinavia they start out late too. This is kinda weird because, in France for example, some children go to primary as early as 3 years old.
To expand on this a bit, we do actually start younger in most cases.
1-2 = Nothing 3 = Pre kindergarten (This is rare, just starting to pop up in some of the specialist private schools) 4-10 = Primary school (7 "Years", or grades) 11-17 = High school (5 more years, but the count continues, so typically, starts at year 8, and goes up to year 12.)
Some schools (private ones mostly) break the grades into smaller subsections, junior, middle and then senior school, which basically changes nothing, just groups the year groups under a title.
Junior school = year 3-6 Middle school = year 7-9 Senior school = year 10-12
As I've somewhat eluded to above, we have 2 different types of schools in Australia - Public and Private.
Public schools are fully government funded, and the cost of sending your children to school there is very low, fees are mostly volunteering, as is book purchases etc. Costs to send your child to a public school are around $100-200 a year, which is a voluntary payment.
Private schools have some government funding, but also charge very significant fees to the parents. They typically offer a "better" education (I say this loosely because some public schools have very good teachers, and the motivation of the student is a big part to how well educated they become. Private schools tend to be better at motivating students rather than just having better teachers) Teachers working at private schools are payed more, and tend to be more involved with students. Class sizes tend to be smaller.
The major difference usually comes down to how the year groups are broken up. In a public school system, primary school is a different school to high school. In most privates schools, the school takes every grade of children, from as early as pre kindergarten to year 12.
The cost of private schools can be extreme (40k+ for a year for a student staying as a boarder)
As for university entrance, the final 2 years of high school, if you wish to go to university, you take a specific set of subjects loosely based around what you hope to do at university (For example, someone wanting to do Engineering would focus on maths and physics, where as someone hoping to study business would do economics and maths) At the end of year 12, there are exams for each of these subjects, and students then receive a ranking in comparison to other students who sat exams in their year. Each student will receive an ATAR (Australian Tertiary Admission Rank) and each university will accept applicants with a certain ATAR set as the minimum for that course of study.
For those who do not wish to study at university and would instead prefer to focus in a trade, you can remain at highschool and complete year 12, with that in mind, and receive a certificate of education stating your completion of year 12. During your final 2 years, instead of preparing for university entrance, you begin to work on your chosen trade skills. The other option here is to take up the trade full time, after completing year 10 in school. Most people will choose to complete a year 12 education (now days, back 20-30 years ago, it was less common to finish high school) as it tends to be favourable for employment, as mentioned above.
You would typically finish your year 12 education at the age of 17, which was slightly mis-stated above.
Our university system is fairly typical, some universities vary slightly, but in general:
Bachelors = 3 years, 4 years with honours Masters = another 2 years, post graduate, for 5 years total study if completed straight after a bachelors degree PhD = varies vastly. Minimum time for completion is 2 years (I believe, it might be 3...) but it is normal to take 3.5 years, and potentially drag it out further depending on your field of study.
Some specific professions, like Engineering, Medicine and Law take different amounts of time, or the university may require a minimum of a masters level of qualification to be considered an Engineer/Doctor/Lawyer.
Hopefully that gives a good perspective of what our schooling is like!
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Once you're done with vmbo: you get your MBO, if you do well, you can go on with an HBO, and if you do well there, you can even go to university. But this is exceedingly rare and takes extremely long.
*Blushes*
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On November 10 2012 23:37 peacenl wrote:Show nested quote +Once you're done with vmbo: you get your MBO, if you do well, you can go on with an HBO, and if you do well there, you can even go to university. But this is exceedingly rare and takes extremely long. *Blushes*
Someone my dad works with did VMBO--MBO--HBO--University--Masters--PhD. :p
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On November 10 2012 23:19 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 22:01 thuracine wrote: I am curios is the U.S the only country to call first year kindergarten?
Edit:
Elemtrary school - K through 6th grade ( 7 years )
Middle school - 2 years
High school - 4 years
+ Show Spoiler [Lots of incorrect things] +mmh no idea about the Kindergarten but in Germany school and Kindergarten are two very much different things. At least where I'm from Kindergarten is nothing like school and it's a physically different building, so you really differentiate between school and Kindergarten a lot in Germany. That being said, in Germany it's:Anything before 6 years is somewhat up to you I guess. There's "Kita" which is an abbreviation for something along the lines of "Children day care center", which is for kids from 0 to 3 years I guess? Kita isn't mandatory. From something like 3 to 6 there's Kindergarten. No idea if it's mandatory. Actual school starts when you're 6 years old: Grundschule (elemtary school). 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th grade, so 4 years in total. Once you're done with those 4 years you have to decide what kind of school you want to apply for. There's 3 different ones: Hauptschule (9 years in total), Realschule (10 years in total), Gymnasium (12 or 13 years in total). Those numbers include the years you're already done with. So your first year in the new school will be 5th grade. Hauptschule is really basic education that generally speaking got a really bad reputation. Not so much the "level" of education but rather the environment you're going to get into. Realschule is supposed to be the "normal" one. Gymnasium is the one you want if you want to get higher education like a Bachelor at an university. Finishing Gymnasium has been mandatory to be allowed to apply for an university for the last bunch of years. Recently it's changed in 2 Bundesländer/states if I'm not mistaken but generally speaking you really need that if you want to go to an university. ///Oh and in 11th grade (that is if you're in Gymnasium) you've got to pick 2 subjects as "Leistungskurse" which is some kind of specialization. Your grades in those 2 subjects are rated doubled or three times in comparison to all the other ones and you'll have more hours / week on those 2 subjects. Naturally it's going to be more "stuff" you're going to cover and it's going to be more in dephth./// You can change schools later on as well. So for example if you're in your 10th year of Realschule and you're done with school you can opt to go to Gymnasium and do the last 2 or 3 years over there as well if you want to. Though I've heard that's a bit tough because those 3 kind of schools have different standards. Once you've got that done you're either going for a "Fachhochschule" or University. Fachhochschule is higher education with a more practical approach whereas university is for the more scientific approach. I'm obviously generalising a bit but it's already a wall of text. ///Edit:/// On November 10 2012 23:11 Lucumo wrote: Can't wait for someone from Germany to post here since it's totally fucked up. Elementary school can either be 6-10 or 6-12. Then there are Realschule, Gesamtschule, Hauptschule, Oberschule, Gymnasium, Oberstufenzentrum and berufliches Gymnasium + Hochschule and Fachhochschule. Not everything is available everywhere, it depends in which region you live. :p Gesamtschule [literal = overall school?] is a school that has all 3 different kinds of schools available within one school / building. That is Hauptschule, Realschule and Gymnasium. So it's basicly one big ass school. Oberschule or Oberstufe is mearly a term for those additional years you're doing in Gymnasium. As mentioned. Realschule is 10 years, Gymnasium is either 12 or 13. Oberschule / Oberstufe would be year 11, 12 and 13. No idea what Oberstufenzentrum is. Btw Mittelstufe would be the term for the years you're doing up until grade 10 if I'm not mistaken. I think it's something like "Unterstufe" = grade 5-7, "Mittelstufe" = grade 8 -10, "Oberstufe" = 11 - 12/13. But people rarely use those terms because once you're in grade 5 it's looked at as one big block of school because when you're in Gymnasium you won't stop after year 10... you're there to get the 12/13 grade done :p Oh yeah and I forgot about berufliches Gymnasium. Basicly the same thing as University vs Fachhochschule. Berufliches Gymnasium is a more business orientated approach. You've got 12 years instead of 13 (?) but 1 year of work is mandatory to get your graduation.
So many mistakes in there. For example, none of the 'durations' you give are correct. Gymnasium doesn't take 12-13 years, Gymnasium takes 8-9 years depending on whether you finish in GRADE 12 or 13. Moreover, Gesamtschule is NOT Hauptschule, Realschule and Gymnasium in one, it is a different didactic approach and is identical to Gymnasium with respect to what 'diplomas' you can get. You can NOT attend university with a Hauptschul-diploma and you can NOT attend university with a Realschul-diploma.
This is how the German system works (excuse the German text; forms of education graphed on a scale for age)+ Show Spoiler +
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On November 10 2012 23:51 Dagobert wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 23:19 Toadesstern wrote:On November 10 2012 22:01 thuracine wrote: I am curios is the U.S the only country to call first year kindergarten?
Edit:
Elemtrary school - K through 6th grade ( 7 years )
Middle school - 2 years
High school - 4 years
+ Show Spoiler [Lots of incorrect things] +mmh no idea about the Kindergarten but in Germany school and Kindergarten are two very much different things. At least where I'm from Kindergarten is nothing like school and it's a physically different building, so you really differentiate between school and Kindergarten a lot in Germany. That being said, in Germany it's:Anything before 6 years is somewhat up to you I guess. There's "Kita" which is an abbreviation for something along the lines of "Children day care center", which is for kids from 0 to 3 years I guess? Kita isn't mandatory. From something like 3 to 6 there's Kindergarten. No idea if it's mandatory. Actual school starts when you're 6 years old: Grundschule (elemtary school). 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th grade, so 4 years in total. Once you're done with those 4 years you have to decide what kind of school you want to apply for. There's 3 different ones: Hauptschule (9 years in total), Realschule (10 years in total), Gymnasium (12 or 13 years in total). Those numbers include the years you're already done with. So your first year in the new school will be 5th grade. Hauptschule is really basic education that generally speaking got a really bad reputation. Not so much the "level" of education but rather the environment you're going to get into. Realschule is supposed to be the "normal" one. Gymnasium is the one you want if you want to get higher education like a Bachelor at an university. Finishing Gymnasium has been mandatory to be allowed to apply for an university for the last bunch of years. Recently it's changed in 2 Bundesländer/states if I'm not mistaken but generally speaking you really need that if you want to go to an university. ///Oh and in 11th grade (that is if you're in Gymnasium) you've got to pick 2 subjects as "Leistungskurse" which is some kind of specialization. Your grades in those 2 subjects are rated doubled or three times in comparison to all the other ones and you'll have more hours / week on those 2 subjects. Naturally it's going to be more "stuff" you're going to cover and it's going to be more in dephth./// You can change schools later on as well. So for example if you're in your 10th year of Realschule and you're done with school you can opt to go to Gymnasium and do the last 2 or 3 years over there as well if you want to. Though I've heard that's a bit tough because those 3 kind of schools have different standards. Once you've got that done you're either going for a "Fachhochschule" or University. Fachhochschule is higher education with a more practical approach whereas university is for the more scientific approach. I'm obviously generalising a bit but it's already a wall of text. ///Edit:/// On November 10 2012 23:11 Lucumo wrote: Can't wait for someone from Germany to post here since it's totally fucked up. Elementary school can either be 6-10 or 6-12. Then there are Realschule, Gesamtschule, Hauptschule, Oberschule, Gymnasium, Oberstufenzentrum and berufliches Gymnasium + Hochschule and Fachhochschule. Not everything is available everywhere, it depends in which region you live. :p Gesamtschule [literal = overall school?] is a school that has all 3 different kinds of schools available within one school / building. That is Hauptschule, Realschule and Gymnasium. So it's basicly one big ass school. Oberschule or Oberstufe is mearly a term for those additional years you're doing in Gymnasium. As mentioned. Realschule is 10 years, Gymnasium is either 12 or 13. Oberschule / Oberstufe would be year 11, 12 and 13. No idea what Oberstufenzentrum is. Btw Mittelstufe would be the term for the years you're doing up until grade 10 if I'm not mistaken. I think it's something like "Unterstufe" = grade 5-7, "Mittelstufe" = grade 8 -10, "Oberstufe" = 11 - 12/13. But people rarely use those terms because once you're in grade 5 it's looked at as one big block of school because when you're in Gymnasium you won't stop after year 10... you're there to get the 12/13 grade done :p Oh yeah and I forgot about berufliches Gymnasium. Basicly the same thing as University vs Fachhochschule. Berufliches Gymnasium is a more business orientated approach. You've got 12 years instead of 13 (?) but 1 year of work is mandatory to get your graduation. So many mistakes in there. For example, none of the 'durations' you give are correct. Gymnasium doesn't take 12-13 years, Gymnasium takes 8-9 years depending on whether you finish in GRADE 12 or 13. Moreover, Gesamtschule is NOT Hauptschule, Realschule and Gymnasium in one, it is a different didactic approach and is identical to Gymnasium with respect to what 'diplomas' you can get. You can NOT attend university with a Hauptschul-diploma and you can NOT attend university with a Realschul-diploma. This is how the German system works (excuse the German text; forms of education graphed on a scale for age) + Show Spoiler + you misunderstood what I wrote... I mentioned that when talking about the years it's already got the 4 years of elementary school included although they're not within "Gymnasium" or any of the other ones because you're starting in 5th grade. Figured 13-4 to get to 9 isn't that hard... As mentioned people rarely talk about those blocks as single thigns but rather talk about it as one big block, therefore you refer to the 13th grade of Gymnasium because you have those 3 big blocks pre-school, school, post-school
Don't know about the Gesamtschule part. I went to one and it was exactly what I described. So maybe that's different from location to location? ///Edit: Unless of course I described it badly again. When I said it's those 3 schools physiclly being in one big school / building I wasn't referring to them being one big mixed school. You still got the 3 schools seperated WITHIN that school and you don't share classes. But again, that's what it was for me, so maybe it's really different from place to place?///
And yeah as mentioned you need to graduate Gymnasium to go to university. That has changed lately as people with "only" Berufsschul-graduation are allowed to go to universities in some places now as well, instead of just being allowed to apply for a Fachhochschule.
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On November 10 2012 22:33 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 22:13 Dienosore wrote: In USA, it goes like this:
age 1-3: nothing age 4: Preschool (not mandatory), or you can test into early kindergarten age 5: Kindergarten (not always mandatory, depends on state legislation) age 6-11: 1st grade - 6 grade, aka elementary school age 12-13: 7th grade - 8th grade, aka middle school age 14-17: 9th grade - 12th grade, aka high school
Kids are tested every three years. If they do well or poorly, then they can skip a grade or be held back, depending on teacher evaluation. Once you turn 16, however, you can elect to not finish high school and drop out of the school system entirely. (a surprisingly high number do this, something like 8% of all high school students)
After high school, about 60% of kids join the general workforce doing whatever. The other 40% go on to college (university) where they will spend the next four years getting their bachelors degree in whatever subject they want. After that, they can continue their education in graduate school (another 4 years), and then even further for their masters degree (another 4 years), and then EVEN FURTHER for their doctorate (another 4 years).
College is open for everyone as long as you have the money to pay tuition. Grad school and beyond is rather selective. Wait what. To get your PhD it takes 16 years after you joined college? And similairly, 12 years to get your masters? Yeah, it is very, very difficult to get a Ph.D in America, Masters are also very difficult to attain. In other countries they are significantly easier to get, not because the actual material is easier, but because the journey is not nearly as long. That could be a pro or a con. I like to think of it as a pro since the world has a real innundation of people with titles like that, which makes them not only less rare but also less useful.
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
On November 10 2012 23:51 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 23:37 peacenl wrote:Once you're done with vmbo: you get your MBO, if you do well, you can go on with an HBO, and if you do well there, you can even go to university. But this is exceedingly rare and takes extremely long. *Blushes* Someone my dad works with did VMBO--MBO--HBO--University--Masters--PhD. :p Haha, wow. Mine is Drop out HAVO-MBO-HBO-UNI-PHD. But that one is prettier :D
Hopefully Ill round it out with prof though someday
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On November 10 2012 22:13 Dienosore wrote: In USA, it goes like this:
age 1-3: nothing age 4: Preschool (not mandatory), or you can test into early kindergarten age 5: Kindergarten (not always mandatory, depends on state legislation) age 6-11: 1st grade - 6 grade, aka elementary school age 12-13: 7th grade - 8th grade, aka middle school age 14-17: 9th grade - 12th grade, aka high school
Kids are tested every three years. If they do well or poorly, then they can skip a grade or be held back, depending on teacher evaluation. Once you turn 16, however, you can elect to not finish high school and drop out of the school system entirely. (a surprisingly high number do this, something like 8% of all high school students)
After high school, about 60% of kids join the general workforce doing whatever. The other 40% go on to college (university) where they will spend the next four years getting their bachelors degree in whatever subject they want. After that, they can continue their education in graduate school (another 4 years), and then even further for their doctorate (another 4 years).
College is open for everyone as long as you have the money to pay tuition. Grad school and beyond is rather selective.
Adding on to this:
age 1-3: nothing age 4: Preschool (not mandatory), or you can test into early kindergarten age 5: Kindergarten (not always mandatory, depends on state legislation) age 6-11: 1st grade - 6 grade, aka elementary school age 12-13: 7th grade - 8th grade, aka middle school age 14-17: 9th grade - 12th grade, aka high school
----------------------------
age 18-21: College/University 4 years bachelors (typically) ----------------------------
Age 22-23: Masters 2-3 years typically
OR
Age 22-25: Ph.D 4-8+ish or so years depending on how fast you can get research done, motivation, etc.
OR
Professional schools (medicine, nursing, law, pharmacy, dentistry, social work, physical therapy, etc.) vary by length. Typically anywhere from 2-4+ years not including fellowships/residencies, etc.
IIRC the PhD + MD combined degree at most schools tends to take about 7-8 years or so.
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On November 10 2012 23:51 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 23:37 peacenl wrote:Once you're done with vmbo: you get your MBO, if you do well, you can go on with an HBO, and if you do well there, you can even go to university. But this is exceedingly rare and takes extremely long. *Blushes* Someone my dad works with did VMBO--MBO--HBO--University--Masters--PhD. :p Well, I can imagine someone doing this if they did an Alpha course. If it's someone from Beta faculty, like me, but getting to his/her PhD.. very rare indeed, since we've missed out on a lot of crucial math and physics. It takes me 2 or 3 times longer to understand algorithms because of this.
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On November 10 2012 22:29 Dienosore wrote:@neptunusfisk and Sweden: Must be nice getting free higher education from the government
Rather, it must be rather sad to not get it!
Honestly though, I can't imagine the purgatory students in countries such as USA and especially Germany must be going through with such complicated systems and all that.. stress.
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May have already been posted but this is the system in the UK.
Ages 3-4 - Nursery -You attend this you start school.
4-11 (Reception + Years 1-6) - Primary School - Reception is the year before year one, then you go up to year six. Years 4 - 6 (ages 8 - 11) are sometimes called junior school, but these years are usually in the same school as R + 1-3. SAT's (government tests) used to be at the end of this school in year 6 and also in year 2 (I think) but I think these have been scrapped now.
11-16 (Years 7 - 11) - Secondary School, this is where you do GCSE's, in years 10-11, your first real external examinations (SAT's didn't affect you in any way). SAT's used to be in year 9 but that has been scrapped. Compulsory education ends after this.
16-18 (Years 12-13 aka Lower 6th + Upper 6th) - College/6th Form - This is where you do your A - levels, AS in first year, A2 in second year. Some secondary schools have 6th forms or you can go to a college.
18+ - University - usually a 3-4 year course then you can go on to further education or get a job.
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On November 10 2012 23:19 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 22:01 thuracine wrote: I am curios is the U.S the only country to call first year kindergarten?
Edit:
Elemtrary school - K through 6th grade ( 7 years )
Middle school - 2 years
High school - 4 years
mmh no idea about the Kindergarten but in Germany school and Kindergarten are two very much different things. At least where I'm from Kindergarten is nothing like school and it's a physically different building, so you really differentiate between school and Kindergarten a lot in Germany. That being said, in Germany it's:Anything before 6 years is somewhat up to you I guess. There's "Kita" which is an abbreviation for something along the lines of "Children day care center", which is for kids from 0 to 3 years I guess? Kita isn't mandatory. From something like 3 to 6 there's Kindergarten. No idea if it's mandatory. Actual school starts when you're 6 years old: Grundschule (elemtary school). 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th grade, so 4 years in total. Once you're done with those 4 years you have to decide what kind of school you want to apply for. There's 3 different ones: Hauptschule (9 years in total), Realschule (10 years in total), Gymnasium (12 or 13 years in total). Those numbers include the years you're already done with. So your first year in the new school will be 5th grade. Hauptschule is really basic education that generally speaking got a really bad reputation. Not so much the "level" of education but rather the environment you're going to get into. Realschule is supposed to be the "normal" one. Gymnasium is the one you want if you want to get higher education like a Bachelor at an university. Finishing Gymnasium has been mandatory to be allowed to apply for an university for the last bunch of years. Recently it's changed in 2 Bundesländer/states if I'm not mistaken but generally speaking you really need that if you want to go to an university. ///Oh and in 11th grade (that is if you're in Gymnasium) you've got to pick 2 subjects as "Leistungskurse" which is some kind of specialization. Your grades in those 2 subjects are rated doubled or three times in comparison to all the other ones and you'll have more hours / week on those 2 subjects. Naturally it's going to be more "stuff" you're going to cover and it's going to be more in dephth./// You can change schools later on as well. So for example if you're in your 10th year of Realschule and you're done with school you can opt to go to Gymnasium and do the last 2 or 3 years over there as well if you want to. Though I've heard that's a bit tough because those 3 kind of schools have different standards. Once you've got that done you're either going for a "Fachhochschule" or University. Fachhochschule is higher education with a more practical approach whereas university is for the more scientific approach. I'm obviously generalising a bit but it's already a wall of text. ///Edit:/// Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 23:11 Lucumo wrote: Can't wait for someone from Germany to post here since it's totally fucked up. Elementary school can either be 6-10 or 6-12. Then there are Realschule, Gesamtschule, Hauptschule, Oberschule, Gymnasium, Oberstufenzentrum and berufliches Gymnasium + Hochschule and Fachhochschule. Not everything is available everywhere, it depends in which region you live. :p Gesamtschule [literal = overall school?] is a school that has all 3 different kinds of schools available within one school / building. That is Hauptschule, Realschule and Gymnasium. So it's basicly one big ass school. Oberschule or Oberstufe is mearly a term for those additional years you're doing in Gymnasium. As mentioned. Realschule is 10 years, Gymnasium is either 12 or 13. Oberschule / Oberstufe would be year 11, 12 and 13. No idea what Oberstufenzentrum is. Btw Mittelstufe would be the term for the years you're doing up until grade 10 if I'm not mistaken. I think it's something like "Unterstufe" = grade 5-7, "Mittelstufe" = grade 8 -10, "Oberstufe" = 11 - 12/13. But people rarely use those terms because once you're in grade 5 it's looked at as one big block of school because when you're in Gymnasium you won't stop after year 10... you're there to get the 12/13 grade done :p Oh yeah and I forgot about berufliches Gymnasium. Basicly the same thing as University vs Fachhochschule. Berufliches Gymnasium is a more business orientated approach. You've got 12 years instead of 13 (?) but 1 year of work is mandatory to get your graduation. He he, here it was 6 years of Grundschule, followed by either Gymnasium, Realschule or Gesamtschule. Gesamtschule was the place where all the not-so-good kids went to(it was just 1 out of 24 in my class). Most went to Realschule and some to Gymnasium. So it's not some giant building in this region. Due to less and less kids, the Gesamtschule and Realschule eventually merged, becoming the Oberschule(still 7-10). For the students who wanted to continue, they had the choice between Gymnasium and Oberstufenzentrum. Here, Gymnasium was till 13 years but they changed it after I finished. Also, after the 10th year, some people went from Gymnasium to Oberstufenzentrum. We never had a Hauptschule and yeah, there is a Förderschule as well(all the really bad kids go there, usually duing elementary school). Though, I heard, they want to close these kinds of schools down.
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On November 10 2012 22:29 Dienosore wrote:@neptunusfisk and Sweden: Must be nice getting free higher education from the government
If it is anything like Denmark, they might even get paid to get an education. I get approximately $470 a month for attending law school, while still living at my parents
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On November 10 2012 22:13 Dienosore wrote: In USA, it goes like this:
age 1-3: nothing age 4: Preschool (not mandatory), or you can test into early kindergarten age 5: Kindergarten (not always mandatory, depends on state legislation) age 6-11: 1st grade - 6 grade, aka elementary school age 12-13: 7th grade - 8th grade, aka middle school age 14-17: 9th grade - 12th grade, aka high school
Kids are tested every three years. If they do well or poorly, then they can skip a grade or be held back, depending on teacher evaluation. Once you turn 16, however, you can elect to not finish high school and drop out of the school system entirely. (a surprisingly high number do this, something like 8% of all high school students)
After high school, about 60% of kids join the general workforce doing whatever. The other 40% go on to college (university) where they will spend the next four years getting their bachelors degree in whatever subject they want. After that, they can continue their education in graduate school (another 4 years), and then even further for their doctorate (another 4 years).
College is open for everyone as long as you have the money to pay tuition. Grad school and beyond is rather selective.
Almost right, but 6th grade is usually part of middle school, not elementary. At age 16 you can also test straight out of high school....which I only found out in my last two months of senior year (12th grade) lol.
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On November 10 2012 22:23 DuBlooNz wrote: In the UK we have a system that goes like this:
from 3 or 4 (I cant remember) you go to nursery
At age 5 you begin primary school (Another name for elementary school) This is for 6 years then you go to secondary school
At secondary school you go for 6 years where you get your GCSE's but they are being replaced by something similar
After secondary school you can go to 6th form college or a career 6th form is where you get AS-levels which and A-levels. The AS-level is in the first year and the A-level is in the second
College is for more practical skills such as metal work and even more specialised such as plumbing which you can get a Btech in.
After that you can go to university. Typically only people with A-levels go to university because the Btech is seen as a "less academic" qualification. University in the UK cost around £9,000 a year (11,255 euro and $14,312). This makes it a very hard choice whether to go to university because it will put you in debt for a noticeable portion of your life.
Britain's schools change depending on the area you are in. My university classmates had a Primary/secondary education like you had, although the ages they changed from primary to secondary were different. My school system was different again.
I started playschool (pre-school) at 3 First school at 4-9 Middle school at 9-13 High school at 13-16 A-levels / College is 16-18 Most go to University at 18-21/22 (depending on 3 or 4 year degree)
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